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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 6:59:10 AM |
Now we are back to the killing of the firstborn in Egypt.
What better way to instil Fear?
For those of you who do not believe in God, why do you believe this supposedly fantastic tale?
Because it is incredulous, counter-productive and contradictory that ANY LOVING god would.
God is not a human…
The only thing you got right… this god is Inhuman.
…therefore He cannot commit murder!
Definition of murder: The unlawful intentional killing of a human being. The aforethought, e.g. premeditated. In common law even an accomplice, or accomplices, are guilty of the same crimes.
He is the giver of human life, and as such, He alone has the right to take life at the time and in the manner of His choosing.
Only in your base and most bias world, yes.
It is never murder when God takes a human life.
Murder is murder, whatever colour you like to dress it up in.
btw…. Al Kieda are most thankful!
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 7:25:44 AM | I guess the fact that God was delivering the Jews from four hundred years of slavery is not to be mentioned....
The killing of the first born was brought about by Pharoah and not God. If you roll a stone... | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 8:17:27 AM |
I guess the fact that God was delivering the Jews from four hundred years of slavery is not to be mentioned....
This statement implies warfare to be the correct solution... if you look back on history, particularly in the far east, you will find religious wars still in full swing today... I make that thousands of years of warfare, on and off. Now tell me were the deliverance is?
The killing of the first born was brought about by Pharoah and not God.
I see, so one imperfect human being's atrocities are measured against that of the Perfect Being's... how does that balance? | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 8:46:00 AM | Skypoetone,
the God of Abraham was protecting and reclaiming his chosen people to show his glory on earth by doing to Pharoah and Egypt what Pharoah would have surely done to the Isrealites. But perhaps if pharoah would have suceeded in his plan instead of God in his we would not be talking now. In fact the world would probably be a better place if God was more like you want him to be than how he actually is. But then who am I to try to defend the I AM. Folks all over the known world heard how the God of Abraham made the powers of Pharoah and the gods of Egypt to an open shame. And back then I'm sure that pleased alot of people. Just as today when the prayers of freedom loving Christians and the wishes of others faiths brought down the Iron Curtain.
Now we fight in a war against those with fanatical faith. And forgive me for saying this but sometimes there's nothing like a good solid head shot just before a bomb strapped extremist blows up a crowd of women and children. I know I'd take that shot. And Skypoetone... I venture to say you would too. | |
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mak68
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 105 | |
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 9:13:14 AM | Now we are back to the killing of the firstborn in Egypt. For those of you who do not believe in God, why do you believe this supposedly fantastic tale?
It's in YOUR bible, therefore we ask why you think it's OK, according to YOUR bible.
God is not a human being therefore He cannot commit murder! He is the giver of human life, and as such, He alone has the right to take life at the time and in the manner of His choosing. It is never murder when God takes a human life.
This is rich, god gets off on a technicality.
Any purposeful taking of life by a sentient being can be considered murder. | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 9:14:48 AM |
the God of Abraham was protecting and reclaiming his chosen people to show his glory on earth by doing to Pharoah and Egypt what Pharoah would have surely done to the Isrealites. But perhaps if pharoah would have suceeded in his plan instead of God in his we would not be talking now.
Given that any of this happened in the first place, it doesn't answer why a Perfect God/Being would use imperfect human (not so humane) being's methods of killing thousands, and probably during the course of It's killing spree, millions of people. Why not just make them disappear? Poof, gone! What better way to show the Almightiness in the most convincing of ways?
In fact the world would probably be a better place if God was more like you want him to be than how he actually is. But then who am I to try to defend the I AM.
I don't see it as a matter of Want... more a matter of humility, benevolence and real Love. But that's JMO.
Folks all over the known world heard how the God of Abraham made the powers of Pharoah and the gods of Egypt to an open shame.
And, thankfully, folks over the known world hear how the same God opens Itself to shame.
Just as today when the prayers of freedom loving Christians and the wishes of others faiths brought down the Iron Curtain.
Love is the only thing that brings humankind to their knees. War? Never in a billion years.
Now we fight in a war against those with fanatical faith. And forgive me for saying this but sometimes there's nothing like a good solid head shot just before a bomb strapped extremist blows up a crowd of women and children.
Forgive yourself... I'm no god. Sure, take out the son of a ****, but don't go to his country and murder the same kind of women and children you refer to here.
I know I'd take that shot. And Skypoetone... I venture to say you would too.
I'm sure you would but I wouldn't hold a gun in my hand to save my own life, but that's not the topic of the occasion. | |
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mak68
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 107 | |
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 9:16:08 AM |
I guess the fact that God was delivering the Jews from four hundred years of slavery is not to be mentioned....
The killing of the first born was brought about by Pharoah and not God. If you roll a stone...
It was god who took their lives, not pharoah. This is just transferring blame. The almighty could have just as well made the egyptians fall asleep, get the isrealites out, and then awaken the egyptians again. Why not go this route? | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 9:27:59 AM | Mak
The almighty could have just as well made the egyptians fall asleep, get the isrealites out, and then awaken the egyptians again. Why not go this route?
Presumably because this 'god' wanted to show how debase It could be to instil fear? | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 9:32:05 AM |
It was god who took their lives, not pharoah. This is just transferring blame. The almighty could have just as well made the egyptians fall asleep, get the isrealites out, and then awaken the egyptians again. Why not go this route?
Probably because nothing short of doing what he did would free the Hebrews. Let's face it, if the Pharoah would not let them free after locusts, frogs, no water to drink as it was bloody, all kinds of devastating "hints" then he was pretty stubborn wouldn't you say? How many Egyptians did the Pharoah allow to die throughout the signs and warnings of God? Pharoah thought he was God as did his subjects ... I guess he had to find out the hard way that he wasn't. He had the choice (after many signs/warnings and being told to set the slaves free) and he chose to kill the Egyptians including his own son. | |
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mak68
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 110 | |
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 9:35:08 AM | Why does your point of view on just about any given subject support anything biblical?
You don't participate in the other forums that I do. I participate in many and make NO reference to God Word. As this is in a "RELIGION" forum, I quote from my RELIGIOUS documents...
More strawmen arguements. Other forums have nothing to do with it. Do you have ANY ideas of your own concerning questions of faith or belief? Or do you just tow the bible line. If all you do is think what the bible tells you to think, then you could be considered somewhat brainwashed, or indoctrinated.
All you seem to care about is that he is good to you irregardless of any other atrocities he committed Now both my God and myself are heartless beings? You cant possible believe that I wouldnt care if an Egyptian baby was being murdered. Almost anyone would be appalled at that. And if we (mankind) who are selfish and human would feel that way, how much more would the God who gave that baby life?
You completely miss the point. My point is that you are saying that "god is good as long as he is good to me". But does that really make god good? Biblical evidence would suggest otherwise.
How do you know that you are predestined? I dont believe in predestination. ~You'll find that you have assumed much about me, and wrongly so.
If as you previously stated that your place in heaven is assured, through grace of faith. And no matter what you do, you are still going to heaven, you are predestined. I suggest you acquaint yourself with a dictionary.
On the subject of suicide, I have made a post on my opinion on that subject on that particular thread and dont have the time right now to put it here as well but you can read it there if you like.
Link to it, it seems you have left that out.
I do not believe that it is an unpardonable sin. The only one that I am aware of is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. ~Once again, you have assumed wrongly, that is the Catholic that carry that belief. I have never claimed any particular "denomination."
I assumed nothing. I was responding to your version of faith. You can do whatever you want, but you're headed for heaven irregardless. Please explain how one can be pardoned for a sin when they're not alive to be pardoned for it. And it is NOT just the catholics that think suicide is a mortal sin, it is just about every xtian sect.
So explain to me this one. You blaspheme the holy spirit, yet you also have the grace of faith, do you make it into heaven or not? | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 10:47:35 AM | Do you have any ideas of your own?
Yes, I have a great idea for a new perfume fragrance and a great idea for Monday's entertainment for my family. Want to hear about them?
I doubt it.
But you are saying that God is good as long as He is good to me
When did I say that?
My idea of what is good for me has on many occasions been different from He knows that is good for me.
no matter what you do you are predestined
I think that God "predestined" all people to be saved. Some do not choose to be.
In the sense that you use that word, would suggest that God chose for some to go to tell when in fact, He choose for all to come to know Him. Whether they do or not, is a different matter. I could have choose not to as well. Free will dismisses the idea of "predestination."
I was responding to your version of faith. You cant possible be aware of my version of faith in the short time that we've been discussing here.
Please explain how one could be pardoned for a sin when they are not alive to be pardoned for it.
When I ask God to forgive me of my sins and come into my heart and life a few years ago, He did. He forgave me, at the very moment, for my sin.
Past, present, and future.
Please explain this to me
I have no idea. But thank you for such insight. I will study His Word and get back to you. Give me a few hours at least. I have never been ask that before.
Good question. I give you say.....25 points. LOL | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 2:57:23 PM | "Definition of murder: The unlawful intentional killing of a human being. The aforethought, e.g. premeditated. In common law even an accomplice, or accomplices, are guilty of the same crimes. "
Thanks for the definition Sky... Is there a reason why you did not highlight all the words from the definition? What about the word 'unlawful'? Did you not highlight it because of the difficulty in deliniating what would be defined as 'lawful' and what would not be? What may be 'lawful' can vary from state to state, or from country to country and also from person to person...
I have a question for you Tony, since you are Brittish, maybe you can help me with it... When the Queen was in America recently, one of the things that I heard about the Royal Family is that her husband can legally kill anyone that threatens her well being. I kind of took this almost as a 007 kind of thing; a liscence to kill? Would this be a special right for someone of high privelage in life? Please be civil with me, I really want to understand... | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 3:23:04 PM | well sky,
can the clay say to the potter "why have you made me thus?" no... and that's about how much control we have over who and what we are as human beings.
I'm sure you would but I wouldn't hold a gun in my hand to save my own life, but that's not the topic of the occasion.
I've never owned a weapon except for the ones they issued me in the U.S. Army. But I believe then and do now that those who fear God will not cry for peace when there is no peace. False prophets will always be telling God how unmerciful he is when they have not the courage to face this world and the evil in it exactly the way it is. To do so any other way is not wise. "Here, God, let me show you how to do this better...?" Well, Moses asked the Lord to have mercy on his stubborn people alot.
I believe that dealing with life the way it is walks hand in hand with the fear of the Lord because I think those contending with the fear of the Lord are soapboxing for the aproval of the others in this forum who think Gods ways are not just.
So I conclude love is not that allows someone to walk happily into the abyss. Love is that calls for true repentance and service to the King of Love, I AM even Yeshua the Savior of the world. "And his mercy is on those who fear him from generation to generation." Our Creator and Savior I AM is innocent of the charges some of you bring against Him. Those who chose the fear of the Lord are they that realize a humility that can only come from faith that says God is Good... man is evil... so thus we fear him with reverence and awe and gratitude. | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 3:53:33 PM | As the OP always insists that this is a book of fairytales my post 109 is his version perhaps?
It was god who took their lives, not pharoah.
Revision Post 109:
OK, how about this .....
It was gods who took their lives .... the plagues were to destroy the many gods and innocence always suffer in warfare.
the plague of fiery hail - (ex 9) against Horus the sky god
the plague of darkness - against Ra the sun god
the plague of boils - against Thoth
And of course, the 10th plague (which the OP is only interested in) death of the firstborn against those who are not protected under the Lamb of God (I AM). | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 4:06:59 PM |
But I believe then and do now that those who fear God will not cry for peace when there is no peace.
What a strange thing to say, would they not be crying out for peace at any cost? IMO man has no fear but fear itself. The 'god-given fear' is a whip to strike yourself with, a flagellation of "Listen to me, listen to me!"
False prophets will always be telling God how unmerciful he is when they have not the courage to face this world and the evil in it exactly the way it is.
Who are these false prophets you speak of? And carry on whipping yourself, if it makes you feel good.
To do so any other way is not wise. "Here, God, let me show you how to do this better...?" Well, Moses asked the Lord to have mercy on his stubborn people alot.
Sure... if that's what you believe... I can't comment on it, but what it tells me is that the all loving, all powerful god had a hearing problem.
I believe that dealing with life the way it is walks hand in hand with the fear of the Lord because I think those contending with the fear of the Lord are soapboxing for the aproval of the others in this forum who think Gods ways are not just.
The way those on here, who are believers, are trying to impress their associates who believe they are just? It's obvious your idea of fear is walking off, hand in hand, with the incredulous together. Touchy!
And the rest of your post really says it all... an indoctrinated verbiage of the kind only the holy than thou would spout. | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 4:16:37 PM |
Thanks for the definition Sky... Is there a reason why you did not highlight all the words from the definition? What about the word 'unlawful'? Did you not highlight it because of the difficulty in deliniating what would be defined as 'lawful' and what would not be? What may be 'lawful' can vary from state to state, or from country to country and also from person to person...
correct.
I have a question for you Tony, since you are Brittish, maybe you can help me with it... When the Queen was in America recently, one of the things that I heard about the Royal Family is that her husband can legally kill anyone that threatens her well being. I kind of took this almost as a 007 kind of thing; a liscence to kill? Would this be a special right for someone of high privelage in life? Please be civil with me, I really want to understand...
I love the way you word your posts Matt (no joke) you use tacked (something I'm learning) and understanding. As for the question about the Royal Family ( I love this one) I don't recognize the monarchy, and I think that's the most polite way I can put it!
007 hahaha! Thanks Matt (forgot your real name) you made my day! | |
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mak68
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 117 | |
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 4:21:10 PM | It was god who took their lives, not pharoah. This is just transferring blame. The almighty could have just as well made the egyptians fall asleep, get the isrealites out, and then awaken the egyptians again. Why not go this route? Probably because nothing short of doing what he did would free the Hebrews.
So one human, the egyptian pharoah was able to counter the omnipotent yaweh? The creator of all things, the alpha and omega was able to be stymied by a man. In effect, the all powerful lord, the omniscient, omnipotent creator had to use what basically amounts to hardball negotiaton tactics to free his "chosen" people. If this god of yours is all-powerful, then really, why not just transport the isrealites out of egypt, drop them in the sinai desert, and continue on from there?
Let's face it, if the Pharoah would not let them free after locusts, frogs, no water to drink as it was bloody, all kinds of devastating "hints" then he was pretty stubborn wouldn't you say?
Definitely. He pretty much had god and his chosen people by the balls, until god decided to get REALLY, REALLY nasty. All unnecessary for a supposed omnipotent entity like yaweh, creator and master of the universe. | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 4:21:43 PM |
Gods Word says that Gods law is written on the hearts of man.
The secular world refers to this as "conscience" Which Scripture? Chapter/verse, if you've got it, please. Beyond that, when was it written, by whom was it written, and with regard to what law (the Commandments, Levitical law, Jesus' injunctions, etc.) was it written? | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 4:25:30 PM | My name is Charlie. I combined the names Matt Adore as a play on words, Adore meaning love and also sounding like a matador, Lol! This was one of my pro wrestling names, but my favorite was Bruiser Miller...
I try to follow the spirit of our friend alyosha. He likes to keep things civil around here, and I don't blame him, Lol! I do find it interesting that you don't recognize the monarchy. That's an interesting way to not answer my question... | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 4:27:58 PM | river_loon
My humble apologies for missing your post, I do try to answer everyone, after all it's only decent.
With regard to your queries:
And of course, the 10th plague (which the OP is only interested in) death of the firstborn against those who are not protected under the Lamb of God (I AM).
On the contrary river, I'm not 'interested' in it, or any of it. I was merely using the source to make my points. | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 4:36:58 PM |
Lol! This was one of my pro wrestling names, but my favorite was Bruiser Miller... I'd've stuck with "Matt Adore", myself. More compelling, certainly.
He likes to keep things civil around here, and I don't blame him, Lol! Homeboy does have it down, don't he? 'Course, passionate belief and beating one's head against the "wall" of blind faith, do take their toll...
I do find it interesting that you don't recognize the monarchy... Why should anyone recognise a monarchy? X person claims to have "divine right" to dictate what you should do, whether or not whatever dictates come from them actually conform to the model presented by that from which they claim "divine right"... See where I'm goin' with this?
On the contrary river, I'm not 'interested' in it, or any of it. I was merely using the source to make my points. All the poorer, you, for not getting all you can out of it, says me. Admittedly, that's a biased opinion, in itself, yes? | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 4:37:50 PM |
On the contrary river, I'm not 'interested' in it, or any of it. I was merely using the source to make my points.
lol ... good one. That is the only point you ever make ... | |
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mak68
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 123 | |
| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 4:54:15 PM | Do you have any ideas of your own? Yes, I have a great idea for a new perfume fragrance and a great idea for Monday's entertainment for my family. Want to hear about them?
Oh my, aren't you the witty one.
But you didn't really answer the basic question.
Evasion is noted.
But you are saying that God is good as long as He is good to me When did I say that?
here:
I do not dare accuse Him of being cruel when He has been so mercifully forgiving of me(and continues to when I do wrong) What I know of Him in MY personal life has been my reason for my view on who He is.
My idea of what is good for me has on many occasions been different from He knows that is good for me.
So in effect, how do you know what god knows? This is what you are implying in this statement.
no matter what you do you are predestined
I think that God "predestined" all people to be saved. Some do not choose to be.
How can you choose not to be, if you've been predestined??
Really, check that dictionary.
In the sense that you use that word, would suggest that God chose for some to go to tell when in fact, He choose for all to come to know Him. Whether they do or not, is a different matter. I could have choose not to as well. Free will dismisses the idea of "predestination."
No. Not at all. According to you, once you recieve grace by faith, you will go to heaven, no matter what. This is predestination.
I was responding to your version of faith. You cant possible be aware of my version of faith in the short time that we've been discussing here.
I am going from your statements, which seem to change depending on the questions.
Please explain how one could be pardoned for a sin when they are not alive to be pardoned for it. When I ask God to forgive me of my sins and come into my heart and life a few years ago, He did. He forgave me, at the very moment, for my sin. Past, present, and future.
So god has forgiven your future sins??
Then I guess it's OK for you to go ahead and commit them.
Your version of god sanctions evil deeds, beforehand.
You have yet to still explain how someone, saved by the grace of faith, therefore assured a place in heaven, can get into heaven if they've commited the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the holy spirit.
If you can't answer the questions on a serious and honest level, then just don't bother. New fragrance indeed. | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 6:01:30 PM | God kills? Really? Hmmm...
I always thought it was people who believe in God so zealously that they cannot comprehend others having differing beliefs.. somehow it.. *gasp* .. threatens them..
So they exercise their free will to exterminate the "Non-Believers" in God's name.. how kind of them to do God's work for him like that
Ridiculous!! Wouldn't an all loving God want to show those people the way through love and acceptance??? Allow them to exercise their free will in whatever way they choose?
Some Sufi's are so non-violent they only wear a loin cloth and carry a feather duster around so that they do not squish any bugs.. that is how much they revere life. They don't just say it.. they LIVE it..
You are all discussing God from a christian perspective.. that is only ONE point of view..
All I can say is thank God I am living in an age when I can have my beliefs without being slaughered as a heretic.. For THAT would make me fear.. NOT the loving God I believe in  | |
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| Fear of God
Posted: 5/25/2007 6:18:06 PM | skypoetone says,
The way those on here, who are believers, are trying to impress their associates who believe they are just? It's obvious your idea of fear is walking off, hand in hand, with the incredulous together. Touchy!
And the rest of your post really says it all... an indoctrinated verbiage of the kind only the holy than thou would spout.
I laughed so hard my eyes were watering when I read that! Of course I'm being self righteous and megalomanic to make a point. You are fighting so hard against such a simple biblical concept that you've started your own doctrine. But the prophets in the old testament speak to such reasoning by the false prophets who were against what they were being told to say by God. Now in truth I can only say I'm giving the best of everything I've ever thought and some original thinking to help you understand what the fear of the Lord is.
Notice I don't quote scripture... I do however draw my inspiration from years of fighting for the faith within and without my inner self.
I believe that we may see actual prophets in this century who will warn of great cataclysms before hand and will encourage cities of millions to repent or perish. There prophecies will come true if repentance from wickedness is not done en mass. In my life I've prayed over groups of people living in sinful houses and seen them lose the house and be homeless since they did not change there ways. Of course such occurances in my line of ministry do not require one to be a prophet or spiritual to predict...
anywho... i'm done again, I think... you can still make me laugh skypoetone... but I am very aware of my faults also finding them useful in certain situations. I uh... fear that God uses me thus... | |
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