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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/27/2007 8:15:50 AM | I dont think those that say "snap out of it" etc, are necessarily being mean or heartless. Its just that depression has a certain stigma attached to it and is also misunderstood by those fortunate enough to not have encountered it first hand.
Depression is an illness, just like a cold, Asthma or any other you care to mention. However like the common cold, there is no immediate quick fix or innoculation. It is an illness that has a massive impact on the life of the individual and those who care for them. It takes understanding and empathy, something I feel a lot of people are missing. I will never turn away anyone who needs a shoulder to lean on or a hand to hold. I just wish that we could all think that way. | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/27/2007 12:16:30 PM | It is sad that so many people do not understand depression. It is not just "the blues". Most people have days when life seems to go wrong and makes us feel blue or even black like there's a thundercloud hanging over us. This is normally a self correcting situation and things return to normal in a few days. Depression occurs when things DON'T return to normal.
Whilst it is true that depression IS a chemical imbalance of primarily the seratonin levels in the brain, the problem with that is that it is a chicken/egg scenario. Depressive thought reduces seratonin levels; reduced seratonin levels induces depressive thought. So, it's exceedingly hard to say that depression is of a physical/organic origin, or a psychological/emotional origin. What we do know is that we can do things to adjust our chemical situation with antidepressants or our psychological state with talk therapy (or mood therapy) and inside a couple months, depression in MOST people will lift. That said, even left untreated, in a great many people, depression lifts all of its own accord.
For some people (chronic depression), it doesn't lift. Nobody's quite sure why but the suspicion is that either there are brain lesions (none have been found btw) causing the chemical imbalance, or that there are deep rooted psychological issues which keep feeding the depression that therapy has just not been able to find or do anything about.
Antidepressant medication should not be treated as a cure for depression, but a helper. If there are things that induced depression in the first place, if they aren't removed, then as soon as antidepressants are stopped, it's straight back to hell on earth.
In reading OldTimeMusic's postings a couple things stand out ...
1) You don't think much of yourself so nobody will want you
2) You think that you have no time left so nobody could want you
Taking number 2 first ...
Time left is relative ... even if you find someone in your last month before dying, you'll depart this life happy and not lonely and that has to have a lot of value. My father looked like dying a lonely old man at 75 (he had a nasty cancer), but just a year before he met a woman who turned his life around. Although he was disappointed that he only had a short time with her, they made each other very happy and he died knowing he wasn't alone. She had leukemia and died just a few weeks after he did - she decided it was her time and stopped going for her weekly transfusions.
Remember that there are lots of fish in the sea who are your age and older (I am for one) and all face the same situation ... all hopeful they'll find someone to end their days with.
Now, number 1 ...
You have to have love yourself first. Concentrate on YOU ... because you are Numero Uno! None of this "It's only me" stuff ... "It's ME!" When you appreciate and love yourself, you will exude the good things about you and suddenly become very attractive.
There is a good book, probably a bit dated now in medical terms, but for the psychological things it's still very appropriate, called "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy" by David D Burns MD (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feeling-Good-New-Mood-Therapy/dp/0380810336)
At the time of writing the idea that by doing things to alter your mood, you can impact depression was looked on with some skepticism, but more and more it's becoming the preferential treatment.
One very interesting thing that comes out of mood therapy is the idea that it's NOT necessary to look back to see what went wrong in the past. You look at the things that are holding you back RIGHT NOW from making plans to make you happy.
For example, OK, you don't have your own family. You're not likely to have your own offspring now. SO, what else can you do to bring youth into your life? To toss out a few ideas ... 1) Become a scout leader ... 2) Become a foster parent ... 3) Help out in hospitals Sure they aren't your own kids, but hey, for some you're almost as important, and you'll be meeting some urgent needs these kids may have.
What is there about yourself that you don't like? List them. What can you do that would change them?
Another important thing is to make SHORT term goals; goals that you stand a chance of making given your situation. Long term goals are hard to meet and you may disappoint yourself by never being able to make them. Lofty goals you might not reach either. So make some goals that you know that with a little effort you can meet. As you meet those goals, you'll start to become proud of meeting those goals and you make more goals ... maybe a little more reaching in terms of time frame and intensity. The essence here is don't bite off more than you can chew, but at the same time don't forget you need to eat!
This has been a very long post, but I hope that it will clear up some misconceptions and help you OldTimeMusic! | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/27/2007 2:06:01 PM | another good book that i found helped me, is:
Louise Hay "you can heal your life" | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 2:10:49 AM | hi somewheresomeone,
while i did know that some D is caused by a imbalance of seratonin levels in the brain, i thought there was other reasons.
maybe im wrong then, dut if it was just the seratonine, why doesnt a few pills or massive injection of the stuff help?
yep, more chance of winning the lotto that having offspring now :( so im the end of the family line.
i am pleased your father died a happy man, i dont know how i would react if the doc told me i had 6 months to live, maybe i would have fun maxing out the credit card.
i would sure as hell think of someone to write my will to.
what you say does indeed sound good, to help out in hospitals of fostercare. but im not a person person (does that make sense?) and as im not married and on a pension i dont think the foster agencies would look at me. | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 10:26:57 AM | Well, it is known that simply adding seratonin doesn't do a lot in itself. There are other agents called dopaminergic agents also involved. It's a crazy system where you have parts of the brain that generate the agents, others that use the agents and still others that take the agents and throw them away making them unavailable for use. Kind of like playing the old game of catch and having somebody running in and stealing the ball all the time!
One of the more modern antidepressants are "SSRIs" Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors. In other words they stop the places in the brain from stealing the seratonin. Obviously that has an effect on the seratonin levels, but it obviously must have other effects possibly like the process of stealing the seratonin has some part in the depressive process. It's all an inexact science unfortunately.
I just tossed ideas out there ... look at the things that make you NOT a people person ... are these things that are preventing you in relationships too? More importantly, what can you do (that aren't too stressful initially) to make you a more people person. Remember, a little step at a time. Always little steps. If you bite off more than you can chew, you'll back away as "impossible".
Remember too that if you do find someone, they may have family that you can meld into and consider at least partly yours ... Sure they don't have your name, but you can at least have an opportunity to put your mark on the world.
Don't let yourself be stopped in your tracks. Look for other ways ... other things that you feel you can manage. You'll surprise yourself. | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 10:40:45 AM | I was told about a book (that I haven't read yet) by a friend. Its called The Secret by Rhonda Byrne. Check it out if you're interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Rhonda-Byrne/dp/1582701709 | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 12:31:03 PM | I have been battling depression for over 6 months. There are days that the clouds are real heavy and roll real low. Only those who have been there can trully understand how difficult it is to reach through and try to see a bit of light. I was seriously contemplating suicide... my world had just stopped and isolation became the only option to think about leaving.
I have been on Meds for 2 months and just starting therapy. Today I'm having a better day. I did not take the Meds. I find the side effects cause more depression in me and I feel just like a lifeless robot waiting for someone to push a button to make me feel.
Blank... | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 1:57:28 PM | i did at one point
no one wants to be lonely
but my fear of letting someone in my life again scares the hell out of me but i'm willing to risk it
sometimes I feel I need to get the hell out of CA and start all over | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 2:42:59 PM | unfortunately, i have been there with this subject.
so many people see suicidal thoughts and depression as a topic to be brushed under the carpet, taboo even. Even more people seem to think that those who suffer with it are merely miserable and need to snap out of it.
oh if only it was that easy!
i wont go into my reasons unless anyone wishes to communicate privately, but at a few points in my life, i found myself sat there, staring at the packets of pills in my hands, willing myself to find the courage to take them all and get it over and done with.
obviously, i never had the guts!
When you are that low, theres no medication you can take, nothing anyone can say, its a case of sitting it out.
I am much better these days, but i still have my triggers and i end up back in that very dark place.
just know that you are not alone, it passes with time, and always try to remind yourself that there are people out there suffering much worse than you, and they carry on.
best wishes to all x | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 4:28:29 PM | To be honest the thought had crossed my mind years ago, but not in a sense that I would prefer this method to end my problems, but in a sense that I would wonder why people would succomb to this finalizing event that would terminate all there problems including their life. I, years ago went through a very nasty separation and it cost me practically all that I had built up in my life, between the settlement, lawyers and paying alimony, I was on the verge of bankruptcy, this was all brought on by our legal system and some lawyers that knew how to capitalize, in a separation, they know the assets, they know that they will get paid, and they know how far they can go.
In my case it would have been easy to just pull the plug, if I can use that terminoligy, but I thought of my son, and he still needed a father figure, and some one to help start him in his life.
If everyone would think of the destuction that a suicide causes for the immediate family, the children, friends, they probably would call of their intentions, but most of these people are so into them selves that they know, no way to turn their life around, they are so far down the ladder that they can't see the top, drugs can help but it does not help them get out of their situation, it just makes it look a little rosier.
I personally have experienced friends, aquaintences, commit suicide, the latest did so in such a gastly manner, (which I never heard of before) that if he had put this energy into a positive manner, I think he would be a lot happeir today, unfortunately the negative energy is stronger than the positive energy and it usually prevails.
Just look at the suicide bombers in the middle east, just plain crazy, I wonder what is on their minds when they pull the trigger. It sure isn't their family. | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 5:51:30 PM | | I am so tired of no joy, no life and I don't want to do it anymore | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 6:01:36 PM | Hi,
My name is Marci. I just don't want to live anymore. I am lonley, sad and know I will never have joy. I tried to kill mysel at 16.. didnt do a good enough job, I guess I was suppose to have a abusive 30 yr marrage, raise 2 kids with disabilities. I passed every test.. but I dont want to do it any more
my email is
msangelluva@aol | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/28/2007 6:18:26 PM | well you found allot of freinds on this site, my # is 911, just kidding my # is 616-813-0191 guys dont make me regret positing it, my x was at this same place, I just want o help her
Your friend, Dan | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/29/2007 4:33:52 AM | Hi somewheresomeone,
you must have been doing lots or reading on this topic, think i will have to ask me doc about the selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors thingys
I have never liked crowds and lots of people, though in the past it was just a slight anoyance, but over the last 5 to 10 years or so it has slowly got worse, even going shopping can be uncomfortable if the shop is busy. while it is strangers that cause the fear. i still feel unease even with people i know (and there is only a few of them) I guess im not much of a people person so its easier to shut myself away.
Something that isn’t too stressful to make me a more people person, hmm good question. I would say that I started to use POF in a hope of finding a relationship that would work, but there are so very few ladies that use the system here in aussie, and the long distance thing isn’t on many ladies minds.
as i think i said in an earlier post, if i build up hopes then its a long way down when thinks work, but i have found from experiance that if i dont build hopes, then one avoids the pain. (in other words, i keep my glass half empty)
often thinking something like...is it safe to let anyone in? | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/29/2007 6:15:14 AM | Hi X
first off Im glad your still around :-)
Ive only tried it 3 times in my life 3 very low times in my life that is! I wont bore you with the reasons I mean really who cares! I guess it is nice to know that Im not the only one that failed at it! recently t my day job just before I got hurt and now still recovering from the surgery I had to have done. They have these games at work I guess to help get to know one another anyways my Boss asked me what my biggest fear was then he didnt like my answer and told me to think up something else! My first answer was that I would wake up the next day meaning I'd be faced yet again with working 2 jobs back to back. Sure I have a goal in mind thats why I work 2 jobs. It also keeps me very busy and very active so I dont have much time to dwell on much of anything. Except now since Im on bedrest till then I have alot of time on my hands. Sure I know others have it way worse then me. right now Im just depressed and cant move at all well Im not suppose to not that I cant! I tried calling the local suicide hotline but they put me on hold just after they said Hi this is meagen can you hold please and I'll be right with you. well like a dumbass I waited while I was waiting I watched 4 episodes of scrubs I got tired of the lousy music thy had playing so I hung up. The 911 system here isnt much better not that I make it a habbit of calling it. Called them once when my house was robbed and once by accident I was cleaning my home phone when I had one and I didnt think to unplug the cord to the wall now I know when yuo clean off all the numbers that for some dumb reason it calls the cops. and because I had the ringer off of course I didnt answer it! about 3 hours later while I was doing some work outside 2 cop cars come roaring up my driveway guess it was a good thing I didnt have a blunt in my hand! lol
Ami | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/29/2007 7:06:51 AM | "as i think i said in an earlier post, if i build up hopes then its a long way down when thinks work, but i have found from experiance that if i dont build hopes, then one avoids the pain. (in other words, i keep my glass half empty)"
And this is why little steps and working on goals you can actually reach right now is so important. If you look at big steps, you'll see goals you can't achieve, so won't bother trying. And that then reflects in your interactions with others, which you perceive as rejection, so your reaction is why go out. It's easy to say "I'm not a people person" and hide yourself away. It's not so easy to develop people skills, but think of what doing so would do for you.
One thing that was recommended to me many years ago, although I've not done it myself, is an organisation called "Toastmasters" where they help you get over fears like speaking in public.
As I said before, depression feeds on itself ... especially mild to moderate depression which tends to keep you in this suspended state ... You have to do things to help break the cycle. This may why meds alone probably aren't working for you ... the underlying habits of a depressive lifestyle are dominating ... It's not easy to break a depressive lifestyle, especially if you've been in one for years. But change begins with you - but you need to do it in small steps and take pleasure out of the achievements of the small steps. Make enough small steps and you'll find you've come a long way and are capable of bigger steps. Maybe a relationship isn't right for you right now ... but friendship and understanding is. Walk before you try running!
Yes, I've had a LOT of experience with depression .. some mild depression of my own, but also family and others. I've done a lot of counselling. BUT, I am not a doctor nor am I a professional and I don't even play one on TV ... so, in standard disclaimer, any comments I'm giving you are not worth any more than you're paying for them. If you use any in an attempt to help yourself, you should do so in conjunction with a professional, such as a doctor or professional counsellor or therapist. | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/29/2007 2:08:56 PM | There are many ways to battle Depression...There are very effective drugs these days also, therapies such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy {CBT for short} are very effective coupled with the medication therapy...
Clinical Depression is a "disease"..i should know, I had to battle 'major" depression and i lost over 30lbs from not being able to eat...It took me well over a year until i could function properly again and I will be on medication for the rest of my life...
I can't emphasize how much, medication and therapy helps...but...The bottom line is, it has to come from within...You have to change your way of thinking and let the feelings come up and do not listen to the suicidal thoughts, you must recognize
"diseased" thinking...
I am an example of someone who fully recovered from this... Anyone going threw it,
i feel for you...please see that, it is something that can be arrested and overcome.... | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/29/2007 4:46:32 PM | Ah now not very good at being sympathetic but I will try...................if I fail I apologise. And do ignore me, I wont mind.
Now depression, not knowingly ever suffered from that but dont ever let anything get you down, its your life sod the others just get on with it. Your life does not have to revolve around otehrs needds 24/7.
Suicide. Hmmm now that also is up to you, you get one life, there is no otherside or karma (my opinion) so sit down.  You should live life to the full extend that you can possibly do. Enjoy yourself. Other people dont have consideration for you, just get on with it, theyl cope in the end.
Do I need to appologise.  | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/29/2007 5:47:24 PM | marie88 says:
Now depression, not knowingly ever suffered from that but dont ever let anything get you down, its your life
As you state, you have never dealt with it...With Clinical that is unipolar or Bipolar Depression, the recipient doesn't have a "choice"....people like myself, have chemical imbalances that promote feelings of Depression, when it isn't appropriate...
sometimes the recipients of the diseases{s} become "delusional" and completely believe diseased thinking and take their lives... If one could snap out of this, from their own free will...Then we wouldn't have the need for medications and clinics,
we have a massive Clinic here in my city that treats the mentioned types of Depression...
and i will add, it is a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE NOT A CHARACTER IMABALNCE
and yes, you do owe an apology....
after the way myself and millions of others have had to struggle in our lives with this type of Disability which is fully recognised as a serious "disease" in North America...
However, if you want to apologize to me and the others that SUFFER from this
disease..then "learn" about mental illness better...
As rygar says in posting 101 and i will qoute his entire posting:
" Its just that depression has a certain stigma attached to it and is also misunderstood by those fortunate enough to not have encountered it first hand.
Depression is an illness, just like a cold, Asthma or any other you care to mention. However like the common cold, there is no immediate quick fix or innoculation. It is an illness that has a massive impact on the life of the individual and those who care for them. It takes understanding and empathy, something I feel a lot of people are missing. I will never turn away anyone who needs a shoulder to lean on or a hand to hold. I just wish that we could all think that way."
and I say amen to that...and applaude Mr. rygar's posting... | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/29/2007 6:33:07 PM | Yes, marie88, you should apologize. You do NOT have any grasp of what being depressed is.
Put simply it's the brain shutting down all positive thought related to self.
It's a beautiful sunny day - yeah but it's too hot to go out
It's a rainy day - yeah, miserable like me
This is a good meal - why bother to eat, I can't enjoy it.
I'm a bad parent.
I don't deserve these beautiful kids
I had to educate my step-father about it ... when he said "Why not give her flowers, that would cheer her up?" The answer to that "She'd reply "That's nice but why did you waste your money on me"" Everything that looks positive gets turned into a negative. EVERYTHING. The depressive feels he has no control over his thoughts. He'll often look to the past for reasons and find every negative thing about himself. "I was a bad daughter", "I made my parents angry because I was a boy and they wanted a girl" Often totally illogical.
Nothing looks good ... even suicide doesn't look good, but sometimes it looks better than the alternatives.
You just cannot imagine the complete feeling of despair.
That said Mood Therapy and Behaviour Cognitive Therapy work on the principle that even though it seems totally impossible, you can and do have control over your thoughts, but you have to train yourself to see that you do have control. This is why small steps, small goals work so well, because in achieveing small steps, you realize that you can gain relief from the negativity and pleasure from the tiniest things. And as time goe son, you build on these small steps.
You cannot argue with the putdowns. One technique I used when someone would spend hours putting themselves down was to say ... No, I'm not listening to this. You want to put yourself down, I'll listen for 5 minutes only, and then if you don't start to talk about ways to fix those things that you're putting yourself down about, I'm going to stop listening.
Not giving the negative an audience worked wonders. This person started exploring ways to turn those negatives into positives and it started to lift the mood. Within 2 weeks of starting this kind of therapy, the depression started to lift.
While I definitely believe in medication, I do not believe in medication alone. It's like putting the silly spare tire on your car ... it will work for a while to get you going, but you still need to fix the tire, and this gives you the opportunity to do so.
As stated, depression isn't a character defect. It's not even a "defect" for most people, it's a disruption in the thought processes which can occur for a multitude of reasons and often related to stress overload, such as with post partum depression, lots of mothers will say "I'm a bad mother", "I'm not capable of looking after a little life" when their sleep patterns are shot to hell, their hormone levels from pregnancy are shot to hell and so on.
There are a couple of positive things after depression, usually the memory of the hell that you were feeling is repressed ... You know you felt really badly, but you usually don't remember the actual mental pain you went through. The other good thing is that about 90% of people who suffer depression do not suffer a recurrance. 5% or so may suffer one or more recurrances and about 5% live with a chronic form of depression.
Note hat I'm talking about clinical or unipolar depression here. Bipolar (aka manic depression) is actually a different disorder which unfortunately intertwines itself with clinical depression. They don't respond the same ways to treatment. | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/30/2007 6:22:21 AM | more good points there, somewheresomeone
i do find the negative side in many ...most? things
and as i have found out that most people get angry with someone who is down all the time and wants to hide away, i guess thats another reason i avoid people. | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/30/2007 6:54:14 AM | | Well, it can be exceptionally frustrating when trying to interact with someone who only sees negativity. That doesn't mean they don't like you or care about you - in fact they may care about you a lot. Next time you go out shopping ... say something nice to someone, like the cashier. Like if they say "Have a nice day" reply ... "and to you to!" with a smile. It's a simple thing, but they will appreciate hearing it. This is what I'm talking about with "little steps" and "small goals". You've done something positive, however small that has made somebody's job just a little brighter. And you are allowed to feel good about doing that. | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/30/2007 7:19:08 AM | reallady42 is right
To anybody feeling this way you need to go get help. Being alone is not fun but in no way should you think about ending your life.
If you don't want to get help a good way to feel better about yourself is to keep busy. I really do'nt like being alone but I do'nt think about ending it over it.
Love yourself and sooner or later you will find the right person to love.
When I get down I like to do something special for myself. It does'nt even have to cost a lot of money. Treat yourself to something special and remember when you do find
special someone they got a great catch.
I think feeling sorry for ones self is a waste of time and energy. unless you have a disease, pain something you can't control, is understandable.
Life is what you make it,
If I have something on my mind that could get depressing whatever, I go work out, a long walk, put on some good music or get into my writing,
there is a cure for everything and it doesn't have to cost money.
hang in there, | |
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gig67
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Joined: 4/7/2007
Msg: 124 | |
| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/30/2007 7:21:58 AM | | have thought about it multiple times though due to other reasons than lonliness | |
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| Depression and suicide
Posted: 5/30/2007 7:35:05 AM | Well, what to say to this post. Alot, been there done that in my life. Irony is that I work in an institution and help people that hit bottom all the time. So I feel their pain and can identify. One thing my grown son said once that I pass on every chance I get is this. "A person doesn't have the right to take away a childs mother or father, and future grandchildren's grandparent", so when you think of that statement you think outside the box of yourself. Another thing, I heard Dr. Laura tell a lady once, SO WHAT about the childhood, it happened, and we get so focused on the 10-15 yrs. of that and forget what we've done in the next 20-30yrs. or so. Why do we define everything we are and all our self worth on those few yrs. and throw away the rest of them. It keeps us stuck. As far as the mental health stuff, yes its good to do the meds, Drs. and counseling, but did you ever stop to think the medical system isn't designed to cure you? If you were cured with it then everyone would be out of a job. Ride it out like the guy said, give yourself permission to feel, cry or whatever, and this to shall pass. I always say to myself, tomorrow is another day Miss Scarlett. I see people all the time who come in out of their minds. Some well dressed, great job, the works, and out of their minds, talking in riddles, wondering, what happened to finally make them snap. The mind is a powerful thing and can talk you into anything and justify your decisions, but always keep in mind my sons words......you don't have the right.
A book I read once, "Why do I think I'm nothing without a man". Read it even though its meant for a woman it will give you great ideas on how to enjoy being alone with yourself, or maybe find one simular for a man. It's at any library...good luck, and it always gets better if you keep trying. When I see people walk out the door of my job a week later, mind and soul intact again, all the money in the world couldn't match the feeling I have inside knowing I had a small part in that process, and it keeps me grounded and counting my blessings. I still have days when I want to check myself in, but I just keep stepping out of the box of myself. | |
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