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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/25/2009 5:00:46 PM | The topic is “Some contradict themselves in that, while height intolerance is considered benign or even promoted, high BMI aversion is considered to be righteously vilified.” Shaming, bullying and deflection are not really discussing the topic. Rather, it is just using a thread as an excuse to further promote intolerance.
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Some specific answers…
Msg 292…
How many times do overweight female characters in movies or television shows express outrage if men do not find them attractive. Not many that I have seen. That aside you see in tv show after tv show and movie after movie of fat older guys with slim and slender wives and girlfriends! I mean what is up with that? You can tell it is men who write these scripts.
What we are seeing there is the “fantasy” that TV-land likes to promote. A guy like Jim (“According to Jim” created by Tracy Newman as in Ms. Tracy Newman) is a parody and an obvious exaggeration of the stereotypical, bumbling, somewhat of a buffoon husband. The shows are geared to appeal to women who see themselves as model wives who have to deal with less-than-perfect husbands (whether they started that way or not).
It still appeals to men since a lot of guys aren’t that self conscience about their bodies or how their coupling looks to others. This demonstrates why this “must be taller than average” happens for women, but few men will pre-empt an opportunity if the woman isn’t closer to the ideal BMI than others.
Msg 292…
And why do these stupid conversations always turn around to bashing fat women?
This thread involves both aspects (besides if it’s so “stupid”, why is one part of it?)
Even so, most height threads would remain about height (or lack there of) if people did not try to hijack them into parallel discussions about BMI. The inapplicability of the comparison between height and weight has been covered. This question about “why they are hijacked” should be directed at those who consistently introduce this false simile. It should be apparent that it is usually not shorter men or men in general who try to derail the discussions away from height.
Msg 292…
Some people who are constantly screaming about others shallowness are being incredibly cruel. I see no need for that. If something about a person turns you off, don't date them. See how simple that is? Why some people feel the need to basically vilify others physical appearance I don't know.
To be clear, the shallowness one is referring to is when people pre-judge others based on a single variable that has little to do with who they really are. Declaring this behaviour as shallow can be confrontational, but it is not cruelty.
Cruelty is using any discussion on this prejudice as an excuse to further malign the marginalized with shaming (“whiners!”), name-calling and generally bullying others in an attempt to silence the plaintiffs.
They are marginalized. Why the need to bash them?... oh, right. That would be bullying.
Msg 292…
You want a good comparison to height? It is age. For a man age is nothing much but for women we are rejected left right and center as we age. How many times do you see profile after profile of guys who wont even consider dating someone unless they are at least 15 years younger then they are. God forbid they should date someone of the same age. Oh the horror! Older ladies get trampled underfoot as a pack of 50 something men run over them to get to the 22 year olds.
Nope. People usually think they have the “answer” with the age comparison but the “age is the same as height” argument has been debunked before.
Sure, age doesn’t change, but other than the curious case of Benjamin Button, any 50 year old was once 15 years younger. That 50 year old was also a 22 year old to a relatively equivalent pool of suitors in that time.
No 5-6 guy was ever 6-0, and they are still effectively marginalized in the same rate as they always were.
Msg 292…
Then the 50 something men sit on the floor whining,screaming and kicking their feet when the "shallow" 22 year olds reject them.
Whining? See the part above about ridiculing and bullying…
Msg 292…
You really can't change some peoples minds though. They will go on until the end of time screaming "no fair" and blaming their failures in love on other people.
If one truly believed that people’s behaviour can’t be changed, then one would question why the very same doubters post the same ridicule and false logic over and over (some will even create other member-names to bash and claim that they are innocent of this… LoL).
The “no fair” complaint is the same old false accusation that detractors use to beat a straw man. No one is demanding “fairness”. Rather, they are asking why, and in so doing exposing the behaviour to more scrutiny than some want others to see.
Msg 292…
Someones stubborn self perception is a near impossible thing to change.I take full responsibility for my own failures. It's a pity more people can't do that.
If you do, that is great.
However, if one is implying that the false beliefs of height restrictors are a failure on the part of the shorter man, than that is “blaming the victim”. The very definition of prejudice is that it is not the action or inaction of the marginalized. It is in the mind of the observer.
“Pity”? That would be shaming… and just attempts to discourage discussion.
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The topic is “Some contradict themselves in that, while height intolerance is considered benign or even promoted, high BMI aversion is considered to be righteously vilified.” Shaming, bullying and deflection are not really discussing the topic. Rather, it is just using a thread as an excuse to further promote intolerance.
You have engaged The B0rg
“Resistance is Futile”
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/25/2009 5:33:33 PM | I have my preferences in height and weight. Sorry to kind of agree with yr statement. I can be more forgiving in the weight not matching my preference than the height.
Im sure I am a minority.!!! | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/25/2009 5:51:11 PM | I used to worry about my weight, but I've put it all behind me now. : )
If a guy is just not into plus-size women, that's ok, and I appreciate knowing that upfront. I'm not going to waste his time and mine trying to convince him otherwise. I would rather just attract a chubby chaser who actually PREFERS plus-size, and isn't just ambivalent about it. I don't want someone who thinks they are doing me a favor in dating me in spite of my body. I need to know that he finds me physically attractive. Wouldn't a shorter man want to know that a woman finds him physcially attractive right from the get go instead of making him feel that she is doing him some kind of favor? | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/25/2009 10:21:42 PM | Jonathan Dorman oh excuse me I mean borg **snickers** You can't have two profiles on here you know?
some will even create other member-names to bash and claim that they are innocent of this… LoL).
This coming from the person who has at least two profiles. First of all I have one profile on here and I can prove that! Anyone just has to check my ip address to see that. Sorry but accusing me of having two profile does not deflect from the fact that you have more then one profile. Now if you think I have more then one profile then I invite you to ping my ip address.No but of course you wont do that because then you would be proven wrong and have egg on your face.After all why bother with actually proof when you can accuse someone with no proof at all and then they have to suffer the consequences of baseless punishments.
Now back to the topic at hand. Weight and height can not be used as a good comparison to each other but height and age can no matter how you say it is false logic or has been debunked. Just because you want to believe it is false logic or has been debunked does not make it so no. The fact of the matter is it is an excellent comparison.Anyone for any reason who sits and "whines" that someone wont date them for any reason is being childish and immature. I don't see the point in chasing after someone who does not want you. I see it as a waste of time. The person you are chasing will never want you.
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 2:42:50 PM | I dated two men quite a while back that were not only shorter than me but probably considered short, period. I am 5'7. To be perfectly honest with you, they were two of my best relationships. We had so much fun just ... having fun together. There wasn't ever a time it became an issue. Shorter men are darling. I mean, look at Al Pacino, with his baaaad, self. Anyway, wouldn't matter to me if the chemistry was there. And I do mean ALL the chemistry. | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 306 | |
| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 3:22:00 PM | "Now back to the topic at hand. Weight and height can not be used as a good comparison to each other but height and age can no matter how you say it is false logic or has been debunked. Just because you want to believe it is false logic or has been debunked does not make it so no. The fact of the matter is it is an excellent comparison."
No it isn't.
It's not a good comparison at all. The simple fact being that age sort of acts like like an equalizer for everyone. We are all going to get old. Not everyone gets fat, not everyone is short, but getting old is something we all have to deal with eventually. Futhermore, A short guy was never tall. Thus his dating oportuniities will remain the same throughout his entire life. An old person may not have the women chasing him anymore. however, in his younger years his dating opportunities were much higher so atleast he had more chances then the short guy ever will. Even weight and height aren't good comparsions for the simple fact being that weight can be changed and height cannot. The only comparison that might work is height and skin color since these are both traits that can't be changed.
"Anyone for any reason who sits and "whines" that someone wont date them for any reason is being childish and immature. I don't see the point in chasing after someone who does not want you. I see it as a waste of time. The person you are chasing will never want you. "
More shaming language and more strawman, then again I'm not surprised. | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 4:15:41 PM |
I don't think this is the foundation of the "hard feelings" (as you put it)...I think it's the false stereotypes and assumptions that are often behind the height requirements which offends most short guys (and some taller guys too).
I think it has more to do with the utter lack of the least bit of empathy. In these threads, you see a lot of "tough love," telling short guys to just buck up and deal with it, admonishments that lack of confidence isn't sexy, and flippant remarks that if a woman isn't interested due to his height, he should just move on to the next!
I have yet to see a single message of support, the least realization that, "Gosh, it must be really tough for you!" Where's the realization that women who will date a 5'3" man are about as common as 6'9" men? It could be weeks or months before that poor guy gets another nibble of interest, but he'll get lots of rude remarks about his height, and even outright hostility that he dare approach a woman before then. Maybe, in the meantime, he just wants his frustration heard, and his struggle validated?
Just sayin'. | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 5:39:37 PM | ^^^
I totally think you might be on to something here.
And you're right that there hasn't been a single kind and supportive word said about short men since this thread (and many other of this nature) has started. A short man can believe in himself, be proud of his height, be a good person, and be more compassionate than your average guy...but he won't be seen as a "MAN" by a majority of women and so he will struggle in the realm of dating (and maybe life in general).
Meanwhile, if he dares to speak to a woman in a romantic way, he takes the risk of getting a "how dare you" type of response...apparently, it's common knowledge among women that being seen with a short man is insulting to their femininity.
And instead of sympathy or empathy, even fat women are telling these guys to shut up and move on.
Shameful really.
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 5:41:55 PM |
Jonathan Dorman oh excuse me I mean borg **snickers** You can't have two profiles on here you know?
I am not borg.
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 6:17:21 PM | | I think both height and weight all have something to do with attraction. I would never date a shorter guy unless he was Prince who I hear is only 5'0". :) Just joking....but the thing is that if something is a turn off, it is a turn off. A person can lose weight, but unfortunately there is nothing one can do about height besides wearing lifts but shoes eventually come off. lol | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 6:43:45 PM | LOL...I don't care if a person is attracted to me or not----because the truth is not every person I converse with I find appealing or attractive---and that is generally after they start talking----that is a deal breaker more often than the face/looks/height etc.
I find it offensive when SOME folks assume because a person looks a certain way, is short, too tall, too thin, too fat that they are some how physically defective, but for a cheap night of thrills with the lights off it will work..hahaha.
I've dated tall men and short men....but it wasn't his height that mattered, it was how he treated me as a person. Some of us have insecurities about our physical attributes and try to over-compensate in other ways to make up for things we believe others see as flaws in our personal appearance. No one is perfect...but it's fun trying to find the one person who makes us feel good about ourselves.
Not everyone is going to dig ya----that is just how it is----rather than worry about what could be....deal with what you have...enjoy what life has to offer and those people who truly wish to be in your company. Looks fade...and if that is all a person is after---including ya leg length that seems a bit shallow to me. | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 8:34:11 PM | Lol. Admitting it when one has no defence for their position is probably a better course of action. Trying to intimidate one’s opponent with false accusations under the pretence that they were firstly falsely accused is pretty weak… and, no, we do not consume Snicker’s bars so there is no need to give us one.
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Some specific answers…
Msg 305…
Jonathan Dorman oh excuse me I mean borg **snickers** You can't have two profiles on here you know? some will even create other member-names to bash and claim that they are innocent of this… LoL This coming from the person who has at least two profiles. First of all I have one profile on here and I can prove that! Anyone just has to check my ip address to see that. Sorry but accusing me of having two profile does not deflect from the fact that you have more then one profile. Now if you think I have more then one profile then I invite you to ping my ip address.No but of course you wont do that because then you would be proven wrong and have egg on your face.After all why bother with actually proof when you can accuse someone with no proof at all and then they have to suffer the consequences of baseless punishments.
Jonathan Doeman’s posts are quite informative and thought provoking. The B0rg is not that individual, but it is a compliment to see that others think what we have to say is as illuminating. We graciously accept this tribute. However, two profiles? Really? The Collective have not but a single profile. We are neither Jonathan Dorman nor Jonathan Doeman. Your smug revelation is ill-conceived.
Curiously, we were speaking of another case (yes it was documented) and NOT of you in particular, but the quickness at which one jumps to a wrong conclusion usually betrays more truth than they wished to reveal.
Whether one creates memberships consecutively (closing one after being blocked from posting and opening another to continue) or concurrently, it something that can be detected. Incidentally, as far as an IP address check, just closing a “bashing” account, doesn’t mean there is no history of its log-on IP address. Even without IP matching, as far as proof, past offences are probably enough on most online forums. We neither manage nor are we affiliated with this site. You are on your own if you wish to put this to the test.
Msg 305…
Now back to the topic at hand. Weight and height can not be used as a good comparison to each other but height and age can no matter how you say it is false logic or has been debunked. Just because you want to believe it is false logic or has been debunked does not make it so no. The fact of the matter is it is an excellent comparison.
LoL.. Just pretending that the explanation as to WHY height and age is a poor comparison wasn’t posted is not the same as “hearsay”. We illustrated it with an example in our last post so this “just saying so” is obviously a false accusation in order to repeat a fallacy. Here it is again from post 302…
“…Sure, age doesn’t change, but other than the curious case of Benjamin Button, any 50 year old was once 15 years younger. That 50 year old was also a 22 year old to a relatively equivalent pool of suitors in that time.
No 5-6 guy was ever 6-0, and they are still effectively marginalized in the same rate as they always were…”
Height and Age is an excellent comparison? Nope. Debunked? Yep… that explanation and the one by Zain in msg 307 pretty much “makes it so”. (we will refer you back to either post again if you like). In contrast, msg 305 merely states an opposing verdict WITHOUT any support or refutation altogether. We leave it for all to evaluate where “just because you want to believe” is actually happening.
Msg 305…
Anyone for any reason who sits and "whines" that someone wont date them for any reason is being childish and immature. I don't see the point in chasing after someone who does not want you. I see it as a waste of time. The person you are chasing will never want you.
RofL. New day, same old straw man being beaten …and just WHERE are people “whining” that someone won’t date them? The topic is about how some feel perfectly justified to denounce BMI intolerance, while simultaneously ridiculing any who criticize a real prejudice like lack-of-height intolerance”.
By continuing the steady stream of deflection and chasing it with shaming, one is proving that they have no substance to their argument. Furthermore, this thread demonstrates how those who support intolerance often attempt to justify the behaviour with faulty logic. Once challenged, they will proceed to bash and ridicule and will also target those that oppose them (usually using the pretence of “this thread is boring”.) There are even those who, after clear refutation, will just feign ignorance and post the same fallacy up again. This is no longer discussion but rather an agenda to “shout down” any that disagree (we will likely be referring back to this statement in the near future).
One of the failures that can plague some humans is thinking that any protest MUST have a direct and personal gain. Intolerance festers on this apathy. If enough had believed this, women would still not have the vote (they still don’t in many more backward parts of the world), and America certainly would not have “change”. Some try to dismiss this with the notion that unless a prejudice threatens life or limb, it is inconsequential and therefore not worthy of exposure. However, that is a fallacy that too has been debunked on these threads.
The Collective may have profited from much luck in the genetics lottery (and that of the general lottery of life), but just because we have tubes, cubes and the B0rg queen, doesn’t mean we do not speak out when things are awry for others. We do not demand that all do the same, but certainly do not expect us or anyone else to condone intolerance or bullying.
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Lol. Admitting it when one has no defence for their position is probably a better course of action. Trying to intimidate one’s opponent with false accusations under the pretence that they were firstly falsely accused is pretty weak… and, no, we do not consume Snicker’s bars so there is no need to give us one.
You have engaged The B0rg
“Resistance is Futile”
(LoL… will we be falsely accused of being Chucky next?) | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 8:50:55 PM | The thing about "inner beauty", it's really hard to see it at first. All of us tend to be attracted to people who we consider attractive.
I know some big girls who are very cool. A few of them even have short boyfriends. However, I'm not attracted to big girls. I can be friends with them, but that's as far as it goes.
About the guys on here who say they never get dates because they're not 5'10" or taller, have you ever tried going to another country to meet girls? Even a big city would work. Hang out in a bookstore or go to an ethnic restaurant. I'm only 5'7" (170 cm to people in other countries) and every time I've been to another country I've had success with having a girlfriend. Even with foreign women I've met here. Yes, some were taller than me. I suppose that height (or a lack of it in a guy) isn't such a deal breaker with some foreign women. Then again, cultures are different and what's acceptable in one is unacceptable in another.
And I'm not going to say that American women are "trash". There are plenty of American guys whom I'd consider "trash" as well. You just have to look at our American culture from an outsider's perspective and you'll see it totally differently. | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/26/2009 10:10:51 PM | | Both my ex's were MD's. First 5'10", second 6'. Both loved wearing heels which put them just inches over me. Height never got in the way of our relationship. | |
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Zain.
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Joined: 9/20/2005
Msg: 316 | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/27/2009 2:20:38 PM | | I always looked for someone taller than me. I think it's because I wanted to give my children a sporting chance. :) | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 3/28/2009 8:56:38 AM |
Valentinne wrote: I always looked for someone taller than me. I think it's because I wanted to give my children a sporting chance. :)
Tall guys don't always have tall kids. And I've seen short guys have incredibly tall kids. I do understand the desire to give your kids "a sporting chance" because height is a deal maker or breaker in this society. Tall men on average make more than their shorter counterparts. Then again, maybe the taller guys need the money because of all the women they go through and all the kids they have. Divorces and child support ain't cheap!!!!!!! | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 4/4/2009 1:10:12 AM |
If a woman is 5"11, and she states she prefers taller men, and you are 5"9...why bother to write to her?
What does the woman's height matter in your scenario? By that logic, the 5'9" man should also not bother to write a 5'1" woman who prefers 6'0" men. The fact is that a person doesn't know whether or not they have a shot until they contact the other person.
Yeah, erm, that sounds logical - because if a lady has a preference and you're not it, it's irrelevant to your chances with her. We luuuuuv when men don't read or ignore our profiles. Yeah. O-ky Do-key | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 4/4/2009 1:17:17 AM | | I prefer taller men. It's a good point that if women expect men to accept more weight than is their ideal, women should be prepared to accept shorter men than is their ideal. My ideal man is 5' 10" or 5' 11". However, twice I've been in long term relationships with men who were about 5' 8" or 5' 9". I was attracted to them both, it is the man that is most important. However, I think of 5'9" as a minimum height on when reading profiles because men tend to exagerate about their height, just like women tend to under-rate their weight. | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 4/4/2009 12:46:43 PM |
Yeah, erm, that sounds logical - because if a lady has a preference and you're not it, it's irrelevant to your chances with her. We luuuuuv when men don't read or ignore our profiles. Yeah. O-ky Do-key
For the umpteenth time on these height threads; there is a big difference between preference and requirement. My response in msg. 298 answers the question fairly succinctly. Trust me, I don't know a single man who wants his time wasted by a woman that either is unwilling or unable to clearly state her requirements.
Help us to help you. | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 4/4/2009 3:06:08 PM | For the umpteenth time on these height threads; I suppose you are a bit frustrated. I didn't read the whole thread and didn't read post 298. However, in my case, even though height may be a preference, a good temperment is a requirement. Yelling at people who don't 'perform' according to one's expectations is a definite deal breaker for me. Height may not be your real issue, nyaquaman, or at least not the only one. | |
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| Height/Size Contridiction?
Posted: 4/4/2009 4:12:17 PM | ^^^^
You're absolutely correct; height is not my issue. My real issue (or, one of them) is people who proudly admit they didn't bother even listening to an ongoing conversation before barging in and making irrelevant personal attacks. If someone did that at a****ail party, they would be told to piss off.
Think of these forums as a cocktail party. | |
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