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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/10/2008 7:44:45 AM |
that is what happens to people who are found to have worked as mercinaries!!
That’s a simplistic conclusion to arrive at and is more conducive of pub talk as opposed to informed debate.
Mercenary according to Dictionary.com,
-adjective
1. Working or acting merely for money or other reward; venal.
2. Hired to serve in a foreign army, guerrilla organization, etc
noun
3. A professional soldier hired to serve in a foreign army.
4. Any hireling.
From the above, one can conclude that DH only fitted 2 and 4. He certainly wasn’t 1 or 3.
At the last count there are some 160,000 private contractors on the US Military payroll working in Iraq. Made up of citizens from the US, UK, Australia and many other countries, they are actually greater in number than the combat troops.
As of July 2007, 6 Australian private contractors have been killed since the beginning of the Iraq War.
If you go by the Dictionary.com definition all of them are Mercenaries. The US has changed the way wars are prosecuted in modern times. In the past they were holistically a military only operation, not any more.
They are conducted as joint operations between private companies and the military.
Admittedly this is largely due to corrupt practises by the US Gov’t in ensuring that private companies that its own gov’t heads have an interest in, can profit from the war and from supplying the military.
Nonetheless they are all Mercenaries and that title has become somewhat “benign” in comparison to past stigma's or characteristic traits ascribed to that profession. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/10/2008 9:26:07 AM |
Hmmmm, wondering if I want to buy in here...
I don't blame you actually . . it's always been a hot and emotive topic. If I recall, we've had three similar threads delete 'cos someone always loses their cool. I'll be nice.
I followed the Hicks trial closely.
I presume you mean the Hicks case, yeah?
The trial itself was conducted behind closed doors and to even call that process a trial would be drawing a pretty long bow, I think.
My question, of course, is why would you not fight harder if your innocent??
Fight harder? The US were quite happy for him to rot in Guantanamo. They were looking to make an example of Hicks and all the other prisoners. They weren't concerned about a trial, fair or otherwise. Hicks and the others had no access to any justice system and the whole deal was in breach of the Geneva convention . . which was where the injustice issue started.
I think it's pretty well recognised that he just gave up. Who the hell wouldn't after spending five years in a room not much bigger than my toilet and a fair proportion of those early years chained to a ring in the concrete floor. He was let out of that room for an hour per day in the latter years or something like that.
If you followed the trial, you would know that when Hicks was given the option to testify he chose to plead guilty rather than risk cross examination. Why would you do that if you have nothing to hide??
As above . . he just gave up. Also, it's well to remember that the political heat was building on our PM (Howard) at the time and a plea deal was cut to get him back here . . and douse that political heat. Part of that same deal was that he would be barred from speaking till after the election. The real question is . . do you think that gag would have been imposed if Howard had nothing to hide?
What I know is when Hicks pointed his weapon at Coalition Forces he didn't care that he was firing on the people that support our country. He may have only fought for 2-3 hrs before running like the chicken shit rat he is, but the point is he still did it.
No one accused him of firing on coalition forces. Not even the Kangaroo Court known as the Military Commission. After all their huffing and puffing and the dropping of the original charges, they finally settled on a charge of '‘providing material support for terrorism’'. In keeping with the smoke and mirrors that is the Military Commission, that offence isn't even a crime known under the laws of war; i.e. they made it up. It's probably true to some extent, but they made it up, none the less.
How long did it take to kill 3000 people on 9/11??
Yes, I watched the live coverage on that Tuesday night . . horrifying. It took about an hour if I recall.
And in reply, the current civilian death toll in Iraq (not that they had anything to do with 9/11, but hey!) is somewhere around 84 to 92 thousand people . . depending on who's numbers we believe. And we won't be using the US military numbers 'cos they don't even count 'em.
I to, have friends in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, this does cloud my judgement on the topic, I'm the first to admit this. However we can't afford to dance around these issues anymore. In one breath we are asked to be vigilant, in the next we are asked to forgive someone who acted with those who oppose us. Well, which is it??
I have no issue with supporting the soldiers on the ground but I think the so called 'war on terror' is being exposed for what it is . . a sham.
There is a hell of alot of literature online about this. If you really feel sorry for him, read it.
Yeah, I have read a fair bit of it and I don't believe Hicks was any sort of angel, either. He was just an insignificant pawn in a much larger game and treated very badly by both our government and that of the US.
Who the hell knows.
Agreed. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:48:58 PM | At the last count there are some 160,000 private contractors on the US Military payroll working in Iraq Yes this is correct but they are not mercinaries they are security contractors there for protection not to fight a war.
As of July 2007, 6 Australian private contractors have been killed since the beginning of the Iraq War.
Yes I know this, one of them happened to be a very close friend of mine but it has nothing to do with david hicks.
private companies that its own gov’t heads have an interest in, can profit from the war and from supplying the military.
I don't think there is a war in history in which a private company has not profited from!!
This could go on forever so I'll finish by saying David Hicks is a fuckwit and should not be allowed back into Australia. You obviously don't agree and that's fine we both have our own opinion, it doesn't mean either of us is right. | |
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Hagars
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Joined: 4/20/2008
Msg: 283 | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/15/2008 6:08:13 AM | your street or a convicted murderer or would you rather have hicks living there?.... i know i would prefer to have anyone but a terrorist like hicks living anywhere near me...
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I've told you already Mark. I DID have Hicks living a few miles away and I worked with his father. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2008 2:46:23 AM | It is a big call to say that you would rather live near a convicted murderer rather then david hicks..........have you ever heard of the saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer"?
I would have thought that to reduce the threat of someone who may commit crimes, you would be better off having them as a part of your community rather then isolated. If hicks has any thoughts of commiting anything heinous, wouldn't you want him to form positive ties with a community so that he will feel a sense of belonging and won't comtemplate doing anything of the sort? | |
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Hagars
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Joined: 4/20/2008
Msg: 286 | |
| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2008 3:09:11 AM | How many lives do Terrorists and those who support acts of Terrorism destroy??
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One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
Terrorism is the war of the poor, war is the terrorism of the rich
Many people who speak rather frightened and angry towards David Hicks and about him living in our country fail to realise that in every state and capital city somewhere a former member of PIRA or a member of the Ulster Loyalists live.
Australians were murdered by acts of violence committed in mainland Europe by the IRA, yet we pay no attention to the former members living in our country, We pay no attention to the millions of dollars raised in Australia by Sien Fien the political wing of the PIRA.
But David Hicks scares the shitt out of us. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/18/2008 4:20:21 PM |
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
Terrorism is the war of the poor, war is the terrorism of the rich
Many people who speak rather frightened and angry towards David Hicks and about him living in our country fail to realise that in every state and capital city somewhere a former member of PIRA or a member of the Ulster Loyalists live.
Australians were murdered by acts of violence committed in mainland Europe by the IRA, yet we pay no attention to the former members living in our country, We pay no attention to the millions of dollars raised in Australia by Sien Fien the political wing of the PIRA.
But David Hicks scares the shitt out of us.
execellent points made.
regards... | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/18/2008 4:47:16 PM | I suspect David Hicks maybe guilty of stupidity and a misguided sense of adventure rather than an actual terrorism, so I would have no problems with having him as a neighbour as opposed to a convicted murderer (given their circumstances).
There's a line from a Bob Dylan song that goes...Steal a little and they throw you in Gaol ...Steal a lot and they make you a king !
To me that sums it up pretty well because i can't really get past the fact that it is really all about the need for oil and the money that is involved. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/19/2008 7:57:26 AM | It's a matter of perspective. Nelson Mandela was jailed for 27 years as a ANF Terrorist. Then he was President of the country that jailed him. Who was right?
Leak Walesa was probably considered a Political Terrorist by the Russians, then of course he become Prime Minister of Poland.
If you think these things have only one side then I suggest you see the Liam Neeson Movie "Michael Collins". I grew up thinking the IRA were murdering ratbags. Watch this movie and see it from the other other side. Walk a mile in the other guy's shoes. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/19/2008 8:27:16 AM | | ^^^I agree with you there photoman I used to know a woman that had been involved with the IRA and I couldn't really understand where she was coming from until I saw that movie. | |
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