| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2007 6:15:03 PM | Before Hicks was taken to Yatala Labour Prison to serve the rest of his sentence, he was given special dispensation to eat a pie floater while watching an AFL game between the Adelaide Crows and Port Power, an experience he referred to as "worse than being gagged, blindfolded and having cold metal objects inserted into my anus. Believe me, I know from experience."
Even the prisoners in Adelaide are uninteresting," said Hicks. "You'd think a city known for its serial killers would have inmates with great stories to share. Where are all the cool, interesting Aussie criminals like Schapelle Corby or Barlow and Chambers?"
"It almost makes me wish the guards would sic a rottweiler on me, just to relieve the tedium."
It really didnt happen folks | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2007 7:25:58 PM | Arabian Angel,
I really appreciate your very clear and well detailed explanation of how things are meant to happen under Islam. Thank you.
The wrong application and/or understanding of the Quranic law related to rape in Submission (Islam) is but a reflection of the desertion of these so called "Islamic" countries" to the law of the Quran in favor for their man made laws, or corrupted religious laws
Yes, but unfortunately they are doing these things to women and girls, and they are claiming that it's because of Islamic beliefs. The very fact that people are so inclined to take bits out of religions and apply in them in a way that was never originally intended, and then hide behind their religion as a defence, (be it Islam or any other religion) is one of the key reasons why the whole idea of any organised religion leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Anti Islamic campaigners try to take advantage of these wrong application of the law and to slander Submission (Islam) in the eyes of the ignorant public who do not educate themselves about the true nature of Islam.
In fairness, if the people perpetrating these crimes against women are people of the Islamic faith and they are telling the public "we do this because of our religion", then it hardly seems fair to call the public the ignorant ones for merely heeding their claims. A person does not need to go off and become an expert in Islam to have the right to say that these sorts of practices should be stopped, whatever their origins. I don't think that raising these issues of social injustice is a matter of being motivated by any desire to slander Islam, but rather a concern for the wellbeing of the women and children who are suffering at the hands of those who are punishing them for being rape victims. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2007 7:49:10 PM | Naama.......your welcome.
Your right.....unfortunetly its easy to make assumptions based on the actions of a follower rather then the religion itself. I just wanted to clarify that Islam does NOT condon such behaviour, just like Christianity would NOT condon priests that rape little boys.... however what shocks me is how Christianity deals with Rape according to the Bible.
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28)" Although this Verse from the Bible only talks about virgins, but its the only verse in the entire Bible that talks about raping single women. Not to be biased or anything, but the Bible seems to have quite weird things in it that are quite irrational and quite ridiculous. Deuteronomy 22:28 forces the raped woman to marry her rapist. My question to the writers of the Bible is why in the world would any raped female victim want to be in the same town, not the same bedroom !! with her rapist?. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2007 9:40:24 PM | Anti Islamic campaigners try to take advantage of these wrong application of the law and to slander Submission (Islam) in the eyes of the ignorant public who do not educate themselves about the true nature of Islam
Exactly why the all the remonstrations were about David Hicks...guilty or not he needed a fair trial that should have been processed within a reasonable time limit. It was fortunate that the "west" judged him otherwise he may have been stoned to death without a trial.
... Only last month a 17 year old girl was stoned to death in Iraq for loving a man of the wrong religion....
If that is Islamic law; I'd rather be protected by western freedom, even if the judicial process was exceptionally slow in David Hicks’ case. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2007 10:47:24 PM | ... Only last month a 17 year old girl was stoned to death in Iraq for loving a man of the wrong religion....
If that is Islamic law; .....quoted by alwaysdreaming....
The answer is NO, Islam does not condon any killings......but im curious is stonning a Christian thing?.....because this is how many reasons are in the Bible as to being alowed to stone someone........Here's a summary.
1. For touching Mount Sinai Exodus 19:13
2. For taking "accursed things" Joshua 7:1-26
3. For cursing or blaspheming Leviticus 24:16
4. For adultery (including urban rape victims who fail to scream loud enough) Deuteronomy 22:23-24
5. For animals (like an ox that gores a human) Exodus 21:28
6. For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night Deuteronomy 22:13-21
7. For worshipping other gods Deuteronomy 17:2-5
8. For preaching the wrong religion Deuteronomy 13:5-10
9. For disobeying parents Deuteronomy 21:18-21
10. For witches and wizards Leviticus 20:27
11. For giving your children to Molech Leviticus 20:2
12. For breaking the Sabbath Numbers 15:32-56
13. For cursing the king 1 Kings 21:10
I thought it would be interesting to see how many times, and for what offenses, the Quran prescribed death by stoning.
The answer is zero. The Quran does not mention stoning as a punishment for any crime.
Hope that answers your question alwaysdreaming.
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2007 11:03:25 PM | ^^ I guess the thing is though that countries like Australia don't base their laws on the madness of the bible, whereas there are some countries who defend certain actions as being lawful based on the premise of it being religiously entrenched. Please understand Arabian Angel that this is not a Quran versus Bible debate, but an issue of actions some humans are taking against other humans, and the justifications they themselves are putting forward for those actions.... they cite the Quran.
As I understand the Quran, there is mention of whipping but not stoning, and it mentions that mercy should be shown. However unfortunately, as I said earlier, there are areas in this world where atrocities are being committed, and now AD has also brought in the fact that women are buried up to their neck and subsequently killed by having rocks thrown at their head (have seen footage and it is extremely confronting)...and those perpetrating these crimes are telling the world that it is their religious belief that this is the correct way to act. They are the ones giving the Quran a bad name I'm afraid, not those of us here left scratching our heads about it all.
If some whackjob decided to stone someone or whip someone based on the bible, I'd be equally outraged. (not that I have any love or loyalty for the bible, but you know what I mean...no excuses for barbarity...)
And on a lighter note...
being alowed to stone someone.....For giving your children to Molech Leviticus 20:2
If anyone was thinking of opening up a child care centre called "Molech Leviticus", I'd reconsider....I doubt enrolments will be high.
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2007 11:33:18 PM | Naama....I couldnt agree more, there is no excuses for barbarity.....like I stated earlier there will always be wako's out there that justify their evil actions with religion,cult or the "devil made me do it" lol.....should we as educated people believe such garbage? or is it easier these days to use the word 'Islamic' in the context of terrorism, honor killings etc.?
I have read so many cases of the Churches turning a blind eye to reported sexual assult, should i be narrow minded and assume that Christianity condons such actions? the answer is no. why ? because I have also educated myself on Christianity as well as Islam.
Naama......as always great having an intellectual debate with u xx.
Fatherpedro....lol..cute but not charming, I wouldnt be cought dead having a coffee with Sarg, nothing against him im sure his a great guy, but we might end up killing one another lol..... | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/16/2007 11:54:45 PM | The answer is NO, Islam does not condon any killings......but im curious is stonning a Christian thing?.....because this is how many reasons are in the Bible as to being alowed to stone someone........Here's a summary.
14......When after the eighth stubbie of stones everything looks the same | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/17/2007 4:05:27 AM | hehe you have to be an intellectual to have an intellectual debate! Reading relgiious books does not normally constitute that............if you go to pakistan or india I dont think the scientific method is applied at all so I dont buy your csi application as a tried and tested legitimate solution in resolving what are often treated as religious matters by the religious leaders in various relgisious countries.......
sorry but this is where secular and religious states differ somewhat - both the US and Iran are religious states (the US governemnt ahs been heavily christianised as are many debates) with so much crap coming out of the leadership and the judicial system (including hicks trials) that any sense of humanity has long been lost in what is ascribed to a higher service of "god" .........in the US like Australia the governments regularly condemn judicial systems openly and publicly taking sides against them, something which constitutes the first clear signs of collapse of our society into something which is generally associated with mediavel states such as Iran. The treatment of Hicks is of historical signifcance because our own government is complicit with the removal of fair judicial practice which is supposed to be one of the cornerstones that differentiate us from extreme states. No other nation has joined in with this erosion of standards the US set in flow, even the UK, which has a history of abuce of the legal system (think of the innocent Brazilian who was shot dead by UK police and noone brought to justice).
SO tehre is a problem with so many stubborn "****wits" leading the masses of uneducated people who actually follow and defend their religion blindly. | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/17/2007 5:01:02 AM |
hehe you have to be an intellectual to have an intellectual debate! Reading relgiious books does not normally constitute that
Is there like a t-shirt and a starter kit Henry? Or does one simply need to be arrogant to qualify? Intellectual debate in my books is simply about arguing a point based on thoughts/facts/theories (whether based on reading, experience or your own analysis)...questioning and at times attempting to refute an opposite perspective... but without resorting to belittling or insulting the other person. Perhaps your superior intellect relegates the exchange between AA and I as failing to qualify as "intellectual debate", but at least it wasn't a p1ssing contest eh? | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/17/2007 5:40:12 AM | ^^^ lol....well, the whole approach there of having to ascertain superior intellect by he-he'ing at someone else just seemed sadly reminiscent of that thing pre-pubescent boys do in seeing who can cover the greater distance...We'll have to find alternative terminology ArabianAngel, seeing as we're clearly not intellectual. 
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/17/2007 5:54:07 AM | Hey Henry and Serenex, what distance can you cover?
Strong wind can make this sport a bit messy, so you all stand back y'hear?
(I have trouble clearing my toes in a tail wind these days...but I've got massive toes) | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/17/2007 5:55:42 AM | Far easier to say non-religious, how many wars over the centuries I wonder have been either directly or indirectly caused by a difference of religious opinion? My God is good, NO my God is more gooderer than yours, is isnt is isnt is. uugghhh
here's something I heard once "(Insert the name of your God here) is probably a nice guy, just his fan club that sh1t's me" | |
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| Re: David Hicks - terrorism or just misunderstood ?
Posted: 6/17/2007 6:00:34 AM | Why do people use the old testement when they want to bash christ/tians.The new testement acording to god is that the old things are swept away and the new covenant is with all men through jesus,s death.
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