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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/14/2007 10:31:48 PM | Yes madfiddler!! Thank you. I was wondering is it just me that has felt so shocked repeatedly by what I have read here these last few days on practically every religious thread I have wandered into....it has certainly opened my eyes to just how widespread prejudice, ignorance, and misconceptions exist about Judaiism among non-Jews. So, thank you for expressing this so well here.
Having said that there is no reason why Christians and Jews cannot be peaceful co-religionists...but as I have noted previously, the attitude from Christians towards Jews of paternalism, prejudice and supercessionism have to cease. Christians have to recognize the Jewish faith as coreligionists...seperate but equal - especially in this forum where that is the rule of law. This has been an especial problem of late where many Christians have been overly willing to speak for the Jewish people in an ignorant and possessive fashion and describing their belief system from a Christological and non-Jewish point of view, misappropriating and misdescribing their beliefs with a clear agenda behind it. It is not only unethical, but clearly against the rules of these forums. Personally as someone with a great respect for the Jewish faith I appreciate a sense of fairplay being maintained. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/16/2007 1:33:57 PM | | I am neither Jew nor Christian. I have read much about both. I accept the love and tolerance taught by both. I reject the judgemental attitudes of anyone, and any organization. Bear seems to be someone I'd like to know. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/16/2007 2:09:35 PM |
Bear seems to be someone I'd like to know. Hi there!
Love and tolerance are good things. My congregation, Jewish, for many years has joined with 3 Christian churches on the Monday before Thanksgiving, for an Interfaith Thansgiving Service. We find that there's much we share as fellow believers.
The only problem seems to be that the sanctuaries are filled to capacity, except for the Catholic Church, which is huge. The rest of us aren't really small. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/16/2007 7:07:02 PM | These are some of the most intelligent, fascinating, and truly inspiring posts I have ever read on this subject -- and hats off to most everyone, who have not turned this into a mud-slinging fest but rather a generous exploration and discussion of likely one of the most important and inherent issues to all of us, as human beings, since antiquity and beyond --
Semantics (absolutely no pun intended) aside, the one great thing is that when we have peace, truth, and beauty -- all that is pure and absolute -- we have God -- in whatever shape, form, or spirit we each choose to experience this.
We are all the same: Just think, if everyone really "got" this concept (and I, along with "everyone," certainly don't "get it" as much as I would like because there is simply too much confusion over it, as last five pages will attest), we wouldn't have this question. Yet it is a good one. And everyone was largely polite to one another! Kudos to you guys!
And because we have God, then war of any kind, in the name of anything, is senseless; and in the name of religion, as it remains and, it seems, will always be, is a sad commentary on who we are as a society and a people.
We are all the same. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/17/2007 2:35:24 AM | Time to play Devil's Advocate.
These are some of the most intelligent, fascinating, and truly inspiring posts I have ever read on this subject -- and hats off to most everyone, who have not turned this into a mud-slinging fest but rather a generous exploration and discussion of likely one of the most important and inherent issues to all of us, as human beings, since antiquity and beyond
Hmmm. That's a stretch, saying this issue is important, and has been, to every human everywhere throughout time. And I certainly wouldn't say this thread has been in its entirety a wonderful hippie love-circle wth hugs and warm fuzzies. But it has been enlightening, and I hope that some of the common misconceptions about Jews have been dispelled. There's nothing wrong with someone saying "Oh, well I thought "xyz" was how Jews were. I was wrong."
Semantics (absolutely no pun intended) aside, the one great thing is that when we have peace, truth, and beauty -- all that is pure and absolute -- we have God -- in whatever shape, form, or spirit we each choose to experience this.
Semantics. Semitic. Cute.
I've bolded the sticking point. I can only guess that you are referring specifically to "people of the Book", even though you just made reference to the entirety of humanity.
I've also italicized the redeeming value of your post. Very wise. :)
We are all the same: Just think, if everyone really "got" this concept (and I, along with "everyone," certainly don't "get it" as much as I would like because there is simply too much confusion over it, as last five pages will attest), we wouldn't have this question. Yet it is a good one. And everyone was largely polite to one another! Kudos to you guys!
Actually, the last five pages attested much more strongly to the fact that "we" are not all the same: but we shouldn't be mean to each other because we're different.
And because we have God, then war of any kind, in the name of anything, is senseless; and in the name of religion, as it remains and, it seems, will always be, is a sad commentary on who we are as a society and a people.
Well... yes. I'd still like to know who you mean when you say "we".
We are all the same.
Hmmm.
I think fiddler said it best.
if it is Christians that need to understand a major enlightenment it is simply this, that there are major differences between the faith of Christianity and Judaism and that while they may choose to borrow elements from Judaism to incorporate into their new faith, they do so at their own risk because Judaism is essentially mutually exclusive to Christianity and contains beliefs that are diametrically opposed to those within Christianity. They do not function alongside each other in that sense.
And:
The Christian point of view on Judaism, while an interesting conversational note is of no great moment...what do Jews who practice Judaism teach? They know their own faith. End of story. Period. And if you don't make an effort to study it, learn about it and understand it and only talk about it second hand from the perspective of your own religion, like Christianity, then, sorry, you know less than nothing about it. If you want to learn, ask a Rabbi or go to a library. That would be a good start. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/17/2007 3:15:17 AM | they haven't lost.
it's like that. usually sons and daughters like to distance themselves from their parents as a way to be independent.
christinatity did well in this respect
not the best parent / son-daughter relationship, but it's not always best also in real life families.
whose fault?
the fault of the "parents"?
the fault of the "children"?
they are just too different to find a common wavelength
regards,
a non-practicing christian from Norway | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/17/2007 8:36:03 AM |
If Jesus wasn't Christain, does that mean he didn't believe in himself??? No, it means that Christianity as a religion did not start until many years after His time on earth. During His time here, He was an observant Jewish man. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/17/2007 2:13:22 PM | Well, my understanding is that christiandom adopted apostacy, officially, around 400 A.D., forsaking fundamentalism for fear of persecution. AntiGod-AntiChrist-pantheistic-newage, diety of man philosophies, are what it appears to have become...or something like that...
Darren | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/18/2007 4:08:43 PM | | Very intresting topic.Yes I dont think it can be denounced that christianity sprung from jewish roots. But there are many sects of Jewish beliefs also...Some believe he was nothing more than a prophet, some believed he was the Messiah..thus the begining of christianity.Yes they all waited for the messiah..The question is , did he come, ? or not ? is he who he said he was. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/18/2007 4:26:47 PM |
Very intresting topic.Yes I dont think it can be denounced that christianity sprung from jewish roots.
I can denounce this claim, Paul the Apostle denounced this as well. I have already posted in this thread that Abraham is the father of Judaism and he is also the father of christianity. The first covenant which is Judaism is born out of Hagar the bondwoman, and the second covenant which is christianity, is born out of Sarah the free woman. These two women are anti-types and symbols representing the two covenants. The fact that Jesus was born under the Judaic law and with Jewish roots has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity coming from Judaism. Christianity came after Christ was resurrected. The problem with much of the christian doctrine today, is the mixing of new wine into old wineskins, or trying to sew an old patch on a new garment...in other words, Christianity has mixed with Judaism by adopting some of the same traditions and the letter of the law, which nullifies it as being genuine christianity. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/21/2007 6:11:49 PM | consigliere31, I don't begrudge you your opinion, but considering how controvertial it is, I wish you would have the courtesy to preface it with "In my opinion, " or words to that effect. It certainly isn't accepted fact!
Actually you admit yourself that the Hagar ancestry is only figuratively true. In the literal sense, you have admitted that Sarah is biologically the ancestor of the Jewish people.
And I have yet to hear a good explanation of how you even arrived at the figurative Hagar ancestry, given that the Bible clearly states that Sarah gave birth to Issac, who's child was Jacob who was renamed Israel, and who's child was Judah, from which comes the name Jew. I think a simple explanation of Hagar would be helpful. Something better than that you prefer Christianity please! I don't begrudge you that, but I don't see why belittling Judaism is necessary.
As for Paul taking this position, his writing in Romans 11:1-2 would seem to dispute this. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/21/2007 7:14:48 PM | | I think that , the problem is "religion" , I wake every morroning to a world that was created buy one God , and I see life all around me that was also created buy the same God . As Jesus said once that God is a spirit , that seeks those who will worship him in spirit . Religious activites have nothing to do with that . You can follow all the cerimonies you want and , that does not please him. He has , an unending , church , the whole world is his , there is no end to his Kingdom . So why do we make cerimonies that we invent ,"religion". Why dont we just praise him , why are we not thankful, for all we have he has gave us . He told his profits to make an alter , out of rocks , and do not cut them , his cerimonies that he has comanded , are simple and dont require , anything. He asked so little of us . So why do we complicate things . Religion is an invention of man. They try to explain , God , but they do not ask him. Most men dont even know him, they know how to practice religion , but have no God. You can try all the religions you want , but you will never find him in them. To worship him in spirit maens he wants a personal relationship with you , a relationship that is between , you and him. Not between you and a priest and him. The priests of the old testament used to go into a tent where the ark of his testament was. Gods presents was there,and they comuned with him there. The people could not aproch . When Christ was crusifided that temple was torn, and in Jeremiah it says that that shall be done no more . That was a practice of religion , that God gave them . A covanant to keep. But Jesus was cricified that all men should be clean in Gods eyes , so that practice is no longer necessary. This was done that there would be no one beteen , you and God . The disiples were told go and make kings and priests of all nations. If you want to know him get down and talk to him , he wants to know you , you can do this anywhere ,and anytime. You dont need a priest to show you anything ,if anything you need Christians to help you on your way. God loves you , and wants to know you , thats what Jesus came for , to find the lost. And to set the captives free , from sin , that they can aproch God as his children. He gives men the power to become the Children of God. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/22/2007 9:36:21 AM | ^^^^ A bit of a misunderstanding about Judaism. Jews pray directly to God, without intervention of a priest or any intermediary. It's been that way for several thousand years.
Your description of praising God sounds a lot like Judaism.
I'm glad you are happy with your chosen religion, Christianity. But it does not require you to misrepresent Judaism, which also consists of fellow believers in God, and is an ongoing religion, not just an outdated predecessor to Christianity. Frankly, we share a lot in faith, if we look for it, instead of always looking for the differences. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/22/2007 10:07:28 AM | | Bear is right on the money here. Judaism is the foundation from which Christianity was built. We have more in common than of differences. Jesus Himself was a devout Jew, after all. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 11/23/2007 9:32:28 AM | consigliere31, you have on several occasions posted that Judaism is born out of Hagar the bondwoman, and that Christianity is born out of Sarah the free woman. Since you have admitted that this is contrary to a literal reading of Genesis, where Sarah is the mother of Issac, the Grandmother of Jacob, called Israel, and the Great grandmother of Judah from which the word Jew comes from, could you explain where you get the Hagar connection? The only reference to Hagar that I'm aware of is that Islam considers itself decended from Ismael, the son of Hagar.
Actually Sarah would be my Great, great, great. etc... Grandmother!
But anyway, an explanation would be appreciated, please. | |
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