| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/19/2008 2:14:28 PM |
nothing practical is known about the mental disorders. there is no blood test
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/001395.html
"The science magazine "New Scientist" reported on February 5, 2005 on a new blood test being developed for the diagnosis of schizophrenia, as reported in a genetics journal (American Journal of Medical Genetics B , vol 133, p 1). It is still early, and this still needs to be validated in larger studies and by other groups, but the initial small sample was positive.
The early results suggest a 95% to 97% accuracy level - which should help a great deal in early diagnosis and potential prevention of serious psychotic episodes." | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/19/2008 3:31:54 PM | There are some good "tech" tools in Scientology which can help with communication skills and also with acknowledging/processing past events. Overall though, the Scientology religion is garbage. The Xenu legend is a joke, and Hubbard himself was a very disturbed (although sometimes brilliant) author.
It's like anything else--take what you can from it; DONT join up; and leave the rest. You can glean everything which is useful from Scientology in about 30 minutes. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/19/2008 3:37:41 PM |
There's no test for a chemical imbalance in the brain.
Actually, that's not true. What they do is test your blood for the metabolites from the breakdown of neurotransmitters. Psychiatrists can determine by your levels of certain metabolites how active those NTs are in the brain. That's exactly how SEROtonin got its original name in the 1950s. | |
|
Nergal
|
Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 54 | |
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/19/2008 6:31:07 PM | | Its the difference between a psychological and a physiological disorder. Some mental illness is caused by chemical imbalance, shizo for one. That can be detected and treated with chemicals | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/21/2008 2:09:23 AM | I stand by my earlier post such that there is no test for a chemical imbalance in the brain.
There's no test for a chemical imbalance in the brain.
Actually, that's not true. What they do is test your blood for the metabolites from the breakdown of neurotransmitters. Psychiatrists can determine by your levels of certain metabolites how active those NTs are in the brain.
There is no "chemical balance' standard. Neurotransmitter effectiveness in the brain is not limited to the amount present. It is also affected by the amount of receptors, re-uptake, release and transportation.
I agree that serotonin can be measured by blood test, and that major depression sufferers do tend to show different levels compared to normals in an experimental setting. However, depression is also linked to norepinephrine and dopamine (and environmental factors). In addition, many mental illnesses have been related to serotonin.
(http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/
65/1/38?lookupType=volpage&vol=65&fp=38&view=short)
best,
E | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/21/2008 2:35:34 AM | And also...after reading a biography about L. Ron Hubbard and his life...why would anybody even show any interest in Scientology?
That guy was nuttier than a truckload squirrel poop.
AND a habitual liar.
Good foundation for a church | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/22/2008 2:24:05 AM |
Good foundation for a church
That's the way it works. I've gored enough oxen this week to want to go into detail but if you look hard enough you can find pathological reasons why lotsa guys saw and heard things that really probably wern't there.
Pesky thing that temporal lobe. Especially when it misfires or you eat toadstools. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/22/2008 1:53:15 PM | The founder of scientology...L. Ron Hubbard, did so on a bet..... He's not even a good writer... why all the hoopla over a lot of hooey. I think expounding on patently false issues is inane..
I have an interest in the study of sciences ( which is what scientology means ). But to espouse it as anything else is an affront to science. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/24/2008 11:06:23 AM | Ho ho - look at this.
In response to years of overreaching demands by Scientology a group today has declared war on them and intends to remove Scientology from the network:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/%22Anonymous%22_releases_statements_outlining_%22War_on_Scientology%22 | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/25/2008 11:51:04 AM | | Scientology is a strange religion, does it matter what they think, not to me. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/25/2008 12:35:24 PM | If Scientology had been just a set of techniques like NLP is, then it would probably be alright. Hubbard went way overboard and mixed in science fiction and conspiracy-theory garbage. That's what destroyed the whole thing.
Hubbard = brilliant, but neurotic. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 1/25/2008 2:34:12 PM |
does it matter what they think
No, but it matters when they commit federal crimes and interfere with the IRS. Read up on what happened in Florida and just why Scientology is the only "religion" to enjoy certain tax advantages. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 2/16/2008 11:28:37 AM | Scientology is pretty easy to figure out when you watch their orientation video. There's a few copies floating out there. Be quick, before SeaOrg takes them down. You know you have the right one if it starts with asteroids and creepy music. It's completly insane and paranoid and features testamonials from John Travolta and Chef from South Park.
The purpose of the video is simple. It loads you full of complete nonsense and paranoia. Most people, maybe 99% will walk away either scratching their head or laughing but the 1% who stay to "find out more" have proven their mental state and are screwed.
Its much more revealing than the Cruise video. Here's my list of highlights:
1. The video claims that L. Ron Hubbard had developed a technology that the government tried for years to take from him because LRH's tech can protect people from government mind control.
2. The informercial quality of subtlety when trying to get newbs to buy Ron's books.
3. The closing statement - this is real. "You are free to walk out of this centre and never speak a word about Scientology again. That would be stupid. You are also free to jump off a bridge or blow your brains out".
Scientologists target the mentally ill. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 2/16/2008 12:23:05 PM | ---Scientology has about as much in common as psychiatry as intelligent design has with evolution.--
Well, intelligent design was not coined by religionists but by physicist. Sorry to burst the bubble. It was a scientific observation, unfortunately the religionists got a hold on it.
--"BERLIN, Germany (Reuters) -- Germany has barred the makers of a movie about a plot to kill Adolf Hitler from filming at German military sites because its star Tom Cruise is a Scientologist, the Defense Ministry said on Monday."--
hahahahahahahahahahahah----what is this, the Tom Cruise crucification....Is this another Christ come back to life.
--She was great in the movie Dogville - -
A great actress, shes a peach. I had her once.
--You realize of course that Hubbard was a pathological liar from a very early age, an alcoholic drug addict manic depressive that dabbled in Satanism and didn't give a shit about anything other than money? And little girls.--
Did you meet this man, do you know that for sure. I never, I can't form that kind of opinion but I really like to know, Did you meet the man or are you reading something some Catholic Jesuit written. Oh Bye the Way I am not a scientologist. If there is a concern about them then someone is concerned, and that someone just has so much control over the media that its some sort of event.
--That says everything about Germany and their intolerance, and NOTHING about Tom Cruise or Scientology.--
I think Germany has got to play it safe, You know, Two WWs. Hey, what the hell give with you people. Give it up. Don't be shy. Germans are great people, I know a few, only. there too exact. Oh well you got to live with it. Not me. Peace out brother.
Well Hubbard had his thing, but the ancient Sumers had theres. Some of your should read up on them, they are the oldest civilized society on earth that was ever recorded. and in Cuneiform tablets of clay. And they state, that mankind was originated by transfer of DNA from an alien race to homo erectus (and we all know what an erection is) and created mankind homo sapient. And that Adam was the first perfect man. And the Sumers of 6000 yrs ago, knew about the planets of Pluto, Uranus, and Neptune, that we only discovered in the last 300 yrs. So why, are there cuneiform tablets ignored by the so-called educated onion heads of this planet. Samuel Noah Kramer wrote a fantastic book on the Sumer Race of 6000 yrs and more ago, and they had a king line that was 250,000 yrs old. Documented. In cuneiform tablets. And the Sumers knew that there was a all one Creating G-d. The Father. Do your own research, you will be stunned, and its authentic. | |
|
| |
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 2/16/2008 9:31:13 PM |
With scientologists focussing their anger of psychiatry and blaming it for everything from the holcaust to contemporary mass control of people, what is it that they dislike so much?
Scientologists are, by and large, morons. Isn't scientology a religion? Talk about codified mass control of people, right? | |
|
| |
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 2/17/2008 7:21:11 AM | | Strangely they do have a point. Freud’s nephew was the initiator of what is known as Public Relations which in effect brainwashing or making you want things and accept values that you accept. Bush and patriotism worked well for a few years silencing people, and torture is worth practicing on so called nasty people too. Just assort of updated with hunt. Psychiatry has shaped the economics of America for over 75 years explaining to banks and industry how to make people consume products and want even more, in fact it is solely responsible for the consumer led world we live in. So it shapes on a subliminal, unconscious and conscious way why people have the opinions about this or that in general terms that is around goods. So Scientology has a strong point, but one should never forget that finger pointers often blame others in order to hide or camouflage their own practices. Scientology uses psychological and psychiatric adapted techniques itself, for its own benefit, including brainwashing techniques through stripping down an individual until they do not know or trust themselves and then in a sense rebuilding them into an unquestioning clone to the real truth. What is even more astounding the ones undergoing reprogramming pay for the mental flagellation. Leaving this organisation is apparently a nightmare and absconders, critics and independent journalists of this pseudo scientific gathering. One could say they have learned some persuasive tips not from the psychiatric fraternity but the mafia. So in reality they use both. Which is worse, well stopping consuming unnecessary stuff does not make you quake in your boots and feel threatened all the time expecting people to harass you, whereas in cults-ville sad to say the vindictive approach seems to be the preferred practice. You pays your money and makes your choice, but you are or could be in effect a victim to or of both. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry CAVEAT EMPTOR!
Posted: 2/17/2008 11:40:51 AM | I am not anti-psychiatry, the science has developed by leaps and bounds over the last couple of decades and continues to improve as research using various imaging technologies, biophsysics, pharmacology and related sciences improve. I believe that the tools and methods of research, training and treatment are far better than they were a generation ago (much less a century, three centuries, etc ago) and will continue to improve. Government funding agencies, private philanthropies, universities and individuals are correct to be vigilant regarding the pharmaceutical companies. Their work is valid, but they are required (they work for their shareholders) to do what is profitable-for a "pill company" that means creating medicine that will treat symptoms (on the bright side-with the fewest possible side effects, ease of use, etc) but they do not have a reason to seek "cures" and might only seek core causes for disease/syndromes/symptoms as it is a part of understanding how to deliver symptom relief. Only independently funded research labs-which get much less money than corporate labs-have much hope of seeking organic/bio-mechanical sources/causes of diseases of the mind/brain and developing medical responses aimed at cure or lasting correction. It seems to me (untrained and largely un-read) that the vast majority of mental illness is biological.
This should be considered separately from the benefits of "talking" and behavioral therapies which assist otherwise healthy persons identify areas that are interfering with their success (competence, social skills, contentedness) by understanding interactions, ineffective habits of thought or lack of living, coping or communicating skills.
I have had the very interesting experience of learning a little bit about Scientology many years ago-and rejecting it out of hand based on "gut reactions" to a couple of things that repelled me (the navy uniforms worn by "management", the giant poster of L. Ron Hubbard's face in the offices, and huge fees for "sessions", which were supposed given at a "church" and were completely unlicensed). Many years later I had the sad experience of witnessing a friend of a friends family "bust him out" of a scientology center, help him reverse years of "brain-washing" (for lack of a better term) and repel "management's" attempts to draw him back into the fold. It appears that they let him take sessions, classes, and so on over many, many years and "allowed" him to work off the fees by working in the scientology center doing menial work at near-minimum wage rates. I feel that this institution (self-identified as amoral) is not above taking advantage of the gullible, of folks that have lost their way.
L. Ron Hubbard's theories are interesting, the very weirdness of his biography is fascinating. I am glad that we have freedom of press/expression so that he could write these. And, I am very glad that physicians and therapists are licensed so the cautious are able to at least determine a minimum of training and standards.
No harm in reading the books, stopping by a 'church' (sorry for the use of quotes to any of you CoS faithful) and poking around-but make no mistake-this is a business-buyer beware. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry CAVEAT EMPTOR!
Posted: 2/17/2008 11:48:33 AM | | Sorry - for my very recent post I figured out how how to turn italics on but my close-italics tag didn't work-didn't mean for the rest of the post to look that way! oops! | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry CAVEAT EMPTOR!
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:59:17 PM | Insightful post nashcat.
You are correct about the biological basis for mental illnesses. Many are incurable, but treatable through medication and behavioural therapy. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder for example is incurable, medication can reduce the symptoms and sufferers can also learn to use cognitive tools to further reduce the symptoms.
Psychiatry and psychology are very different, psychiatrists focus on the physical/biological aspects of mental illness and medication. Clinical psychologists focus on psychological/cognitive aspects of mental illness and therapy. Both are licensed.
However there are no consistent education/training and licensing requirements for many types of counsellors thus, some counsellors are highly trained and some are not. People who choose to go to counselling for marital, communication, anger and so on type issues (i.e., not the kind of issues requiring a clinical psychologist) really need to do their homework before choosing a counsellor.
I don't have direct knowledge, but it does sound like Scientology offers counselling and skills training in areas such as communication, personal development and the like. If people benefit then great.
I do have concerns about the secrecy surrounding their methods though. It does seem as if Scientology uses a method based on the idea that a negative earlier life experience is the root cause of many problems. Only after discovery of the root cause can the person 'recover'. This method is very similar to (and I believe is based on) the Freudian perspective. Freudian psychotherapy with it's 3 visits a week for years, couches, dreams, penis envy, denial and freudian slips etc is part of society's language. It is still how most lay people percieve counselling and psychology. Nothing could be further from the truth. Research into different therapies illustrated that for many problems are resolvable in a few short weeks by teaching clients cognitive strategies.
best,
E | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 2/18/2008 3:10:09 PM | | My opinion is that both are 90% bullshite. But at least Psychiatry is consistently evolving. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 2/19/2008 4:04:03 PM | While the pharmaceutical industries are interested in profit, I think that is the result of living in a capitalistic society, not necessarily inherit in the industry itself. I think that this is a small price to pay for everything that the pharmaceutical companies contribute to society. It is the spirit of competition and profits that fuel the development of all these miraculous drugs that we have today. We have medications for just about every disease and ailment, thanks to the pharmaceutical industries.
As for psychiatry, I do not think that this should be viewed any differently than anyother branch of medicine. Although psychiatry has been villified alot and received alot of blame for everything that wrong with humankind, everything except human nature itself.
While psychiatry has gone through a dark period in human history, I think that it has evolved alot, especially within the last 15- 20 years. With the advancements being made in biomedical technology, we have invented sophisticated machines like the PET Scan that enables us to pear inside the workings of the human brain, enabling us to actually "see" what a normal brain looks like and how it functions vs what an unhealthy brain looks like suffering the ravishes of mental illness. With our advancing technologies, and our growing knowledge about the brain, I believe that psychiatry will be alot more respected for the branch of medicine that it is. Psychiatrists will be able to apply more objective means of diagnosis rather than rely entirely on the subjective.
I know how powerful these psychiatric drugs can be. I have seen first-hand how they can restore a person suffering from the worst of mental illnesses to the person that they were once. Almost. These drugs however, are not without there side-effects. Not everyone can tolerate them. But virtually every drug renders side-effects, psychiatric drugs are no exception. Rather than focus on the negative hype surrounding these meds, instead, try focusing on the life-altering changes they have made for millions of people across the board. I have witnessed this first hand as a sister of a brother with schizophrenia. Without the availability of these psychiatric drugs, my brother would continue to be homeless. He would continue to move in and out of the justice system. He might even had died.
Well, the way I see it is this: If you had a brother or family member who is severely mentally ill, who would you turn to? Psychiatry or scientology? Would you choose a good psychiatrists who has went to medical school and studied about the brain for 15 years of his or her life, or would you go to a scientologist? What does a scientologist know about the brain? The choice is yours. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 2/20/2008 8:07:39 PM | | In response to cornbandusk, I disagree. With the advent of the PET scan, chemical imbalances in the brain can actually be visualized. The way the brain utilizes glucose is an indicator as to the area of the brain that is working and which areas are not. It's very interested. I recommend you read a fascinating book by Dr. Daniel Amen called Hardware To The Soul and Change Your Brain, Change Your Life. Read it and tell me what you think. | |
|
| Scientology or psychiatry
Posted: 2/22/2008 5:57:33 PM | | I think Hubbard and his followers saw psychiatry as a rival to their own religion, which is basically itself supposed to be a 'therapy' which is scientific and can cure all sorts of psychiatric and physical ailments. As with many religions and ideaologies, true believers find it impossible to accept rational or critical discussion of their ideas, particularly when claims to scientific certainty are put to the test. I can't speak from personal experience, but from a distance I don't think Scientology could have any serious claim to equal or better scientific medicine. | |
|
Home
login 
