| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 6:59:36 AM | A: WW1: The French took the brunt of the fighting... they were smack bang in the front line. If it wasn't for the French, there would have been no war for Britain, ANZAC, the U.S, and Russia to fight.
B: The French won the American Revolution. Without French regulars, America hadn't a chance in hell to kick the Brits out.
Not only that, but some 90% of our gunpowder and 75%of our cannons, not to mention half of our muskets and uniforms, came from France.
C: The French Resistance gave the Allies invaluable information about the German troop strength in and around Normandy, and their sabotage of supply lines prevented the 2nd SS Panzer Division from getting to Normandy in time to destroy the beachheads as they were being formed.
Once landed, the Resistance continued sabotaging German efforts to hold off the allies; with their supply chain of food, weapons and equipment being undermined at every turn, the German army had little choice but to retreat.
Even in retreat, the Resistance continued to deuce the Germans; when Allied commanders wanted to prevent a particular German garrison being reinforced, word was sneaked through a chain of informants...and then, quietly in the night, a series of bridges would be simultaneously blown up.
The Germans were fighting two enemies on the western front; those in front, and those behind their lines. The modern German nation today owes it's existance to the French Resistance...the Soviets would have completely overrun Germany without the French Resistance having done it's work.
It's never black and white is it.? | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 7:53:42 AM |
...my family members who are Veterans, were treated like shit when visiting France... hmmm, I wonder why that happened? Why would someone get treated like shit? Karma's a ****? | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 8:28:42 AM | charliemcsd said:
I am one American that is not ashamed of its leaders particularly the existing leadership. I'd even go so far as saying the Clinton years were better than anything any European country can produce.
Do you mean anything any European country can currently produce or could ever have produced (since the Clinton administration is long gone)? | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 8:32:15 AM | | With regards to jdmaui's post about French military history...that list comes from Google and can be rather funny. Just type in French military victories and hit the "I feel lucky" button. That list is the first thing that comes up. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 9:08:49 AM | mimosa said:
C: The French Resistance gave the Allies invaluable information about the German troop strength in and around Normandy, and their sabotage of supply lines prevented the 2nd SS Panzer Division from getting to Normandy in time to destroy the beachheads as they were being formed.
That is mot true. The Panzers were held back by the Germans. There was a huge debate about whether they should be held in reserve or if they should be used against the beachheads right away. In the end, it was decided that they should be held in reserve. The Germans made this choice, they were not prevented from reaching the beaches by the resistance.
Once landed, the Resistance continued sabotaging German efforts to hold off the allies; with their supply chain of food, weapons and equipment being undermined at every turn, the German army had little choice but to retreat.
The issue was far more complex than you suggest (many of their supply problems came about because the Allies had bombed the railways and other infrastructure thus making them unusable when needed). And the Germans did not retreat (read about the fighting around Caen), they were beaten back but they certainly did not retreat.
Even in retreat, the Resistance continued to deuce the Germans; when Allied commanders wanted to prevent a particular German garrison being reinforced, word was sneaked through a chain of informants...and then, quietly in the night, a series of bridges would be simultaneously blown up.
The Germans were fighting two enemies on the western front; those in front, and those behind their lines. The modern German nation today owes it's existance to the French Resistance...the Soviets would have completely overrun Germany without the French Resistance having done it's work.
You are giving too much credit to the resistance. There is a large body of work in the historiography that questions the effectiveness of the resistance and that suggests that the myth of the resistance was created in order to foster French national pride (specifically support for De Gaulle) so that the groups who were competing for power would unite against the Communists in the immediate post-war era.
France has always had trouble reconciling itself to the realities of what happened during WW II. If you want to learn something about this grab a copy of Henry Rousso's The Vichy Syndrome: History and Memory in France since 1944 (translated by Arthur Goldhammer) as it provides a good introduction to this issue. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 2:20:54 PM | this is crazy.
The swedes have never been a military power, so they are worthless cowards who can't do anything? Not even make good watches?
Acting like France has never been powerful, I do recall Napolean had quite the empire, rather large was it not? If only he had a meteorologist.
And another guy, nobody knows about him.....oh, yah, Charlemagne. If not for him we could possibly be Muslim. He had the only real strength in Europe at a time when it was filled with barbarians and all the advancements were being made in the middle east. People prayed to go to the middle-east and use their facilities then.
But the Vikings, they were fearless, great warriors. That's who we need to model a society after.
Many love to think in the here and the now, but history keeps going. There'll be a time when America is not the superpower any more, hopefully Karma is nice to us, but I doubt it. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 2:23:09 PM | @ boatswamper....
Are you a veteran of any war buddy? Doubtful. Say that to my grandfather and he would have neaten you senseless. He was there, you were not. Shut yer pie hole unless you were there to experience it. My grandfather WAS there...he lived it. You did not. Karma is something that you may not fully comprehend cuz. France would hhave been SOL without the Allies, including America. They call us ugly Americans, because they are jealous of how we saved their ass...TWICE, and make fun of them for their various surrenders.
How can you tell a French soldier? SUNBURNED ARMPITS. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 2:32:32 PM | | jd cant you make your point without being so vicious lmao . Another product of right wing radio. I think it took courage for Jacques Chirac to stand up to us by not bringing his kids in a war based on lies solely for profits . Bottom line French kids are alive . By the way France as mentioned by previous posters, has kids fighting in Afghan. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 3:50:43 PM |
By the way France as mentioned by previous posters, has kids fighting in Afghan.
Not exactly..the troops who are most risk in Afghanistan are in the southern areas where the Taliban, fighting is concentrated.
They are the US, Britain, and Canada.
The rest (including France, Germany, et al) say: "Well, we'll send a few troops..only to the NORTHERN province where there is no opposition/no fighting.."
check the casualty lists in Afghanistan to confirm: the US has the most, followed by Britain & Canada.
the rest, pretty well none.. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 3:54:37 PM | Man, you guys judge the entire French Nation on a political decision (that turned out to be correct and wise).
How would you feel if the whole world thought all Americans were stupid just because of George W.
Surely that couldn't happen? | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 3:57:34 PM | ^^ hindsight is 20/20 eh?
How would you feel if the whole world thought all Americans were stupid just because of George W.
you mean the way many people think all Brits are stupid because of the way the lap-dog Tony Blair kisses George W's fat arse?
then why so so many people get down on the USA for the politically "wise" decision to stay out of WW II until 1941 ?
ahh, they "should have" been in THAT war, but NOT in THIS one..says who ? | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:30:17 PM | ^^^
the USA was not in any apparent immediate danger from Germany in 1939-40..
why would they enter that "European" war ?
let the Europeans fight "their" war, no ?
(same applies to Canada of course.)
whoever writes the history books tells us what was 'right' and what was not..
or even from Japan ( a little misjudged in hindsight, perhaps..) | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:44:52 PM | emancipate yourself said:
And another guy, nobody knows about him.....oh, yah, Charlemagne. If not for him we could possibly be Muslim. He had the only real strength in Europe at a time when it was filled with barbarians and all the advancements were being made in the middle east. People prayed to go to the middle-east and use their facilities then.
You're right of course...except for the irritating little fact that Charlemagne was born in Belgium thus making him, you know, not French. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/31/2007 7:16:41 AM | | ^^^^The Franks were German. Regardless of whether Belgium existed (you are correct that it did not...I merely mentioned Belgium because it was easier to describe his place of birth that way), Charlemagne was not French as the other poster had claimed. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/31/2007 7:20:37 AM | emancipate yourself said:
The swedes have never been a military power, so they are worthless cowards who can't do anything? Not even make good watches?
Actually, Sweden has a long military history. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/31/2007 7:25:20 AM | | Before the franks there was Gaul, no such thing as french then either. We became french because of Charlemagne's conquest of Gaul. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/31/2007 7:25:24 AM | France has a rich culture and history but I would question their militery might .They did kinda cave in to the Germans pretty quick in WW2 and Vichy France was quite a hostile place to be.Even the Resistance was inflitrated by double agents .The resistance was virtually funded and operated from Britain and the strange thing is that the French and Germans are all hunky dory now .You would think they were twins.
The French have a chic sense of dress and the language is superb.
Germans on the other hand.....watch out.They can take on the world and hold out for years .Very dogged people . Fighting the whole of Europe,British Empire,French Empire..Usa...you name it they fought it. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/31/2007 7:34:14 AM | France has a military history going back over a thousand years before America existed. That they don't get caught up in the US's petty invasions looks good on them; in France "culture" means more than "yogurt". They're a funny bunch alright but the world would a much worse place if they did not exist.
French Canada is like another world and a nice counterpoint to the homogeneous boring slosh that is the rest of Canada. What's not to like about French art, food and design?
They're not popular with the beer guzzling crowd that thinks bowling is a sport and food comes from 7-11? Gosh, I'm so surprised.. | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/31/2007 7:58:34 AM | The French are at heart diplomats if they can negociate peace that's the course they'll try first. Your right about Britain helping the resistance. We talk about the US's victory but if the British hadn't been there I wonder how much of a victory it would have been, just speculating here.
As for Germany or any country the saying "Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer is what motivates France" | |
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| France is getting a bad rap for nothing
Posted: 5/31/2007 8:09:59 AM | I was in France last year. most of the french people do not like American's. they were kind but when we asked for direction's they heard friends speake they just looked away said nothink
PEACE TO MANKIND ALWAYS | |
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