| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 7:24:34 AM | We are all following recipes ie religions from one source.
Islam is like a tree the roots are faith the trunk is knowledge and the branches are the different religions ie recipes for living we can follow or believe in the leaves are our deeds and the fruit is what comes of those deeds.
| |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 8:34:10 AM | Wisdom, wisdom, wisdom, (sigh)
I'm sure you mean well, but I feel dumber after reading your posts...
I think I'll have an easier time teaching a six year old advanced calculus than getting my point accross here. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 8:38:37 AM | lol powervamp .... well, I was waiting for some of your wisdom on your new "Babal" post but "sigh" it went missing ..... not enough intellect from others?
ie ... fascinating subject and pertinent today | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 9:17:58 AM | | Islam is more like the canopy of the tree, Judaism and Christianity all came before Islam and Islam is the last interpretation of the Abraham faith. But according to the Koran, it seems those who fight in the cause of Allah get the biggest rewards, I mean you get booty, women, slaves etc when you Jihad against the infedels. Sooooo you can go and be a painter, musician etc for Islam and go to heaven or be a fighter and get heaven to which is like the differences between the earth in heaven when you compare the paradise of a Jihad fighter against that who didn't go out on Jihad. | |
|
Ender
|
Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 30 | |
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 10:23:20 AM | Hey, I'm still waiting for the OP to explain to me why a religion of peace is causing all the violence in the world.
Wisdom, why is it that the true zealots of Islam are the ones that supress though and murder others? I mean its such a peaceful religion.
Answer my question. Don't spout more rhetoric. Don't sit around and quote more scripture. I want your honest opinion as a muslim woman.
P.S. You need to cover up your face or you'll go to hell. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 10:37:26 AM | Ender,
Dont waste your time wanting to hear from the converts, I recommends you read the Koran and look at the treatment of faith minorities inside Islamic dominated countries. You will find your explanation there. Wisdom seems to be a good woman at heart but an ignorant one about many of the teachings of the Koran which are often overlooked. Read the Koran from front to back, instead of relying on one's interpretation of what Islam is. | |
|
Ender
|
Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 32 | |
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 10:56:15 AM | | I read the qu'ran a long time ago mate. Its a loaded question. I don't actually expect a real answer from her. Its just like askign a loaded question to a christian idealist. In the end, religion junkies are incapable of responding appropriately to logical questions and they fall back on their dogmatic tripe. I beleive the phrase is "hoisted by their own petard". | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 6:37:00 PM | | hmm true, and its good to know you read the Koran, I think anyone who pretends Islam is a faith of peace or one of war better back up their arugment with biblical verses or Koranic verses etc. If they dont give me proof than we cant belive it. | |
|
Ender
|
Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 34 | |
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 6:41:16 PM | Parroting scripture proves nothing...nothingnothingnothing.
I could pick and choose verses from either the bible or qu'ran to prove just about ANYTHING I wanted to say about the religion. Here's the bottom line IMO....
Christianity and Islam both preach a BASIC message of peace, but the application of the principles that these religions espouse is conquest oriented. ANY time you say "My god is the one true god", you are gearing up for conquest whether by force or arms or whether by conversion of the soul. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 7:09:50 PM | | How can anyone prove anything without making a scipture references: ok give me one verse in the bible that points to war (from the new testament) and explain it for me and I will give you one verse from the Koran and explain it and also give you a history on how it has been used in the middle east. My family was kicked out of Lebanon because of Islam and their laws which have nothing to do with my sect, I blame the faith. | |
|
Ender
|
Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 36 | |
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 9:06:29 PM | Oh I totally blame faith too......notice I didn't say "the faith", but "faith". It is the concept of faith when applied to organized religion that invariably results in misery and pain for many many people.
I'm not sure what you are asking me to prove or provide proof of, I mean its pretty well known that I consider ALL organized religion to be a load of tripe. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 9:28:26 PM | ahh ok, I understand now. Well I was asking to provide proof per se for christianity being a load of crap. Many ppl say it points to war, I have read the bible front to back and while I can say the jewish scriptures speak of war as ordained by prophets, the new testatment speaks of peace.
The koran on the other hand speaks of war until a population submits. | |
|
Ender
|
Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 38 | |
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 11:14:44 PM | You need proof that christianity is a load of crap? Do a search for "George W. Bush" on youtube and watch clips until you run across one that mentions his "talking with god" or how he "asks god to help him govern". Thats all the proof you need.
Also, you might want to reread the book of Leviticus in particular if you think the bible is peaceful. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/4/2007 11:42:16 PM |
ahh ok, I understand now. Well I was asking to provide proof per se for christianity being a load of crap. Many ppl say it points to war, I have read the bible front to back and while I can say the jewish scriptures speak of war as ordained by prophets, the new testatment speaks of peace.
The koran on the other hand speaks of war until a population submits.
If you're so inclined, there are numerous books that at least attempt to debunk Christianity. Regardless, why should one overlook the Old Testament? One might as well say, "If you ignore the references to war, killing, and smiting, the Bible speaks only of peace." Even the NT has unpeaceful passages. If one takes certain Jesus quotes out of context, for instance. "I came not to bring peace, but a sword" comes to mind. Then there's the book of Revelation. Not peaceful for unbelievers-- maybe not even for believers, depending upon one's interpretation and doctrine.
I haven't read the Koran myself, but some that have say that the references to war are out of self defense. Like any text, the Koran can be, and is often, quoted out of context. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/5/2007 11:11:54 AM | that one verse in the bible where Jesus said it came with a sword was a verse claiming that many ppl who follow him will become the scorn and hate of those around him. Many ppl claimed that Jesus was wanting to take over israel, he wanted to be king and etc etc etc. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world.
ok imagine this: you are a Jew and your family has followed the Jewish faith for many hundred years, and then you have children who come home and speak of Jesus, you know from the high priests who where against Jesus that this man was dangerous and he wanted to change the law (which wasn't true) and you tell your children about it, and still they refuse to believe that Jesus was a heretic. His teachings and ministry would rip families apart from those who belive in the old Jewish faith with the laws and didnt consider Jesus a prophet to those who belived and those today make up the Christian faith. Remember that Jesus taught in parables you you simply cannot take any of his teachings at face value.
Ender: I want biblical verses in the new testament, not the old testament, the Christians don't follow the old testament code of laws. Bush is a bad example of a christian, and the world is full of bad examples. Try again.
In Islam, mohammed makes it clear in chapter 9, convert, or we will make life hell for you until you do convert. In Lebanon it took many hundred years but many christians gave up their faith in exchange for Islamic to escape the heavy taxes and daily humiliations they had to face as Dhimmi. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/5/2007 11:15:08 AM | | Flyguy, read the Koran, thats all I ask of you, I too thought this whole faith is Islam was peaceful and there were a few terrorist who manipulated it for their own ends. After reading the Koran and also talking about it and getting help from moslems for difficult interpretations I can say that islam points to war, not just in a few verses, but in many chapters across the Koran. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/5/2007 11:37:16 AM | I haven't read the Koran myself, but some that have say that the references to war are out of self defense. Like any text, the Koran can be, and is often, quoted out of context.
Dude there is a scripture that said something about a Jew hiding behind a treee, and then the tree says something like "Son of Islam, there is a Jew hiding behind me; come and kill him" .....yeah thats a peace loving book alright.
The Koran clearly says that Jews and Christians are the ememies of Islam. Allah is a god of hate...as I said before...muslims would kill me for saying that, thus proving my point. I mean, the guy who got his head chopped off on TV didn't go so far as I just did. Would a Book of "over all" peace encourage them to kidnap an unarmed American civilian, and behead him? I can understand an American soldier during a time of war, but a civilian?
| |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/5/2007 12:03:44 PM |
muslims would kill me for saying that, thus proving my point.
A hypothetical situation of your making involving a blanket statement proves your point? Riiight. In any case, powervamp, you missed my point entirely. It might make us feel better to claim that only others spill blood carelessly, but the real world is much more complicated than that. If I thought you were a scholar of the Koran, I might actually learn something about it from you.
Seattleartist, I said that I was quoting Jesus out of context intentionally, and you spent two paragraphs putting it in context. 
I was trying to illustrate how easy it is to view religious text as violent in nature. They tend to use violent imagery. I'd rather you spent the time talking about Revelation. What percentage of Christians, do you think, take that book at face value?
Christians don't follow the old testament code of laws.
True, but many still use the warfare in the OT as reason to believe in divinely ordained warfare. If Christianity has an "advantage" over Islam, it is that it, as an institution, glosses over or rationalizes into oblivion the "less palatable" parts of the Bible... sometimes even the more palatable parts, as with the Song of Solomon. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/5/2007 12:34:31 PM | Funny... most christians don't follow the OT laws... but still persecute homosexuals because of a single line in Leviticus?!
I smell bullshit. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/5/2007 12:41:43 PM | Flyguy,
Ok, I just got alittle punchy there when I read that verse about Jesus coming with a sword, believe it or not many (Moslem's many times) use that as a verse to say Christianity is warlike. I just had to set the record straight.
I can tell you right now many christains do not understand the bible. They forget free well, they speak of God wrath instead of god love. They think going out in the middle of a crowd and preaching is gonna win over coverts being convicting them. They think abortion is murder but forget its not their choice. Some of even the most basic teachings many Christians forget.
As far as the gay thing is concerned, Christians again need to leave it to free will, what ever happens in their gay life is none of our concern and we as Christians cannot judge a person's lifestyle like that. Its between them and God. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/5/2007 1:03:58 PM |
Funny... most christians don't follow the OT laws... but still persecute homosexuals because of a single line in Leviticus?!
I smell bullshit.
No, Paul in the NT demonizes homosexuality as well, so that is valid doctrinally. The problem arises with bestiality... it is only prohibited in the OT. However, culturally it is not a widespread problem.
Just for the record, I'm not for or against any belief or non-belief. I do want people to be consistent in their beliefs and worldview and am eager to call them on it when they aren't. I expect the same on my end. As to what I AM for, I am for freedom of religion or lack thereof, not merely freedom of Christianity. Seems too many in the US operate under that assumption.
Not wanting to jack the thread, where is our continued introduction to Islam?
Edit: seattleartist, I applaud your ability to separate morality from legality. And I think most religious people do not understand their holy texts fully. It also depends on whose "understanding" is being used as the yardstick. As for freewill, that concept is never mentioned in the Bible. A strict Calvinist has no problems with that fact. But, there are other threads on that subject... maybe too many. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/5/2007 1:34:50 PM |
Funny...most christians don't follow the OT laws...but still persecute homosexuals because of a single line in Leviticus?!
Although I do not persecute homosexuals, there are many verses in the New Testament as well that speak of God's thoughts on the subject,
not just the Old Testament.
ICorithians 6:8-10
"..Nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor drunkards nor slanders nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." | |
|
Ender
|
Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 48 | |
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/5/2007 2:01:15 PM | Gods thoughts huh? Seems to me that the bible was written by a human, and is therefore a representation of man's INTERPRETATION of what god's will might be......it is NOT (in the literal sense) the word of god.
Maybe the original ten commandments were the true word of your god, but seems like you have lost those over the years. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/6/2007 5:07:06 AM | Well, the Bible says that It Is the Word of He Who inspired It, so I believe that It would include His thoughts. God even speaks of His thoughts there:
Isaiah 55:9
"My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts are higher than your thoughts."
you have lost those over the years.
Jesus came to fulfil the prophesied/Old Testament not dismiss it.
Why do you think I have lost it? You mean the church or me? .. | |
|
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/6/2007 6:00:56 AM |
Islam is more like the canopy of the tree, Judaism and Christianity all came before Islam and Islam is the last interpretation of the Abraham faith/quote]
I think that technically speaking Islam has been around since Abraham. They worshipped hundreds of gods with Alliah (or something like that, have to look it up but) as the predominate god of the moon worshipped. The allah of modern Islam just changed the worship of multi gods to the doctrine of monotheism. | |
|
Home
login 
