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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 10:06:32 AM | Dis
It has NEVER been translated into different languages?
I translate all day at work and trust me, when translating, there are many words in one language that simply DO NOT EXIST in others.
At those times, the translator must improvise to correctly get the point across otherwise there would continually be gaps, making it impossible to comphrend
- We aren't talking about translation. We are talking about the original text of the Koran, which is in Arabic. That text hasn't been changed and even if you buy the Koran with English or any other translations, it always has the Arabic original text on the side so that you could refer to and make sure the words aren't missing.
- Ofcourse, alot is missed in translation. That's why it is important to know different languages and the original language of the scriptures to really know w hat's going on and be able compare the original text with the translated text. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 10:12:32 AM |
That text hasnt been changed.
alot is missed in translation.
When parts of that text is "missing" that part of text is sure to "change", darlin.
it is important to know different languages and the original language of the scriptures to really know w hats going
So, one must speak multiple languages to believe? Wow, that must suck.. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 4:46:53 PM | the translator must improvise to correctly get the point across .........quoted by disaronno
Very true, u said it............big difference between 'translating' and ' changing'.....translations are present in court, im sure the courts dont view translating as changing, do u?
The fact still remains, The Koran has NEVER been changed, translated yes, but NOT changed. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 4:56:00 PM | Trust me doll, when translating, the text changes. If there are ANY changes, it changes.
Ive done it for years, actually I get paid to do it, I know.
I cant begin to tell you how many times Ive had 6 hour meetings (which is nothing compared to translating an entire book) and spend most of that time correcting misunderstandings due to the discrepancies of languages. It happens. It has happened in my Bible as well. Is God still perfect? Yes, but we are not. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 5:18:01 PM | I translate from various languages into English. The Quran's strength is that it is NOT translated. It is taught in the same language and same wording it was originally set down. Translations exist, but the original remains the standard. The Bible most definitely lacks this strength, is it has been sequentially translated AND reworded, leaving much of the original intent obscured. There are few if any people who learn the Bible in its original language and wording.
The points about translating apply to the Bible, not to the Quran [and I don't follow either].
With regard to my earlier comments: My points have not been addressed. I pointed out that the text provided doesn't support the conclusions drawn. That's correct, period. Furthermore, only a single phrase has been added to support the conclusions. The conclusions given may be accurate, but they cannot be drawn *only* from the text provided. If one were speaking to an audience which owned a Quran and were fluent in Arabic, you would be preaching to the faithfull. This is not the case, therefore you must PROVIDE the evidence. I have no bias here. I read what is written and interpret accordingly. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 106 | |
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 5:23:12 PM | Simple fact:
An understanding of the Ku'ran without the ability to read Arabic is impossible, there are idioms that cannot be translated. This is where those in the west have to rely on translation, and this is where they become woefully misinformed.
Translation?
Close to 100% of Arabic and Farsi translation in the west is done by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), which was founded and is run by an ex-Mossad colonal, Yigal Carmon; this "service" was co-founded by Meyrav Wurmser, for those of you who consider yourselves well-informed, please do yourself a favour and familiarize yourselves with Ms. Wurmser and her husband David as well as Mr. Carmon.
The highest regarded (achedemic scholer) westerner in regards to the Islamic world is Prof. Juan Cole, ...do look him up as well.
Please, ...your bias is showing (eek!)
There are few if any people who learn the Bible in its original language and wording.
Did you know that Aramaic and Arabic are closely related. Most scholars believe that Jesus primarily spoke Aramaic, the word for God in Aramaic is pronounced almost the same as "Allah".
There is only one Christian sect (as well as one of the oldest) that still practices in Aramaic, it exists in Syria, and has for almost 2000 years...
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 5:28:04 PM | | Which would be the same organization which provides the inaccurate translation of Hamas children's TV programming. This programming is certainly propogandized, but the deliberate mistranslation by MEMRI is far worse, and inaccurate. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 5:43:44 PM | Dis
When parts of that text is "missing" that part of text is sure to "change", darlin.
- Hopefully, your using of the word "darlin" doesn't indicate any sort of age difference, less experience and less-informed attitude.
- Do you have any information about the Koran and it is publication and how it is presented in the book form? Based on the answers you are giving, it shows that you don't know much about it. The Koran's "ORIGINAL BOOK" that was compiled while Muhammad was alive is still in two different museums in Russia and Turkey.
- Any other Koran that's published is referred back to those original copies to make sure the wording or anything isn't missing.
- The Koran is primarily published in Arabic text to avoid misunderstanding or avoid addition or removal of text from it.
- THE TRANSLATED VERSION OF KORAN always have the original Arabic text on side of the page and the translated words either right below each verse or to the right or left of the same page.
- Therefore, the original text of the Koran has always remained the same. The translation may or may not be accurate based on who has translated it and how strong they are in both langauges.
- The whole reason both the original and translated text are ALWAYS given is that the reader may refer back to the original text in case of discrepency.
So, one must speak multiple languages to believe? Wow, that must suck..
And no. One must not speak multiple languages to believer. The point I was making was that you could infer and come into conclusions about a religion based on reading "Translations of Text", but you have the disadvantage of not knowing Arabic to really know if the translated text matches what the Arabic words really mean.
Frog
With regard to my earlier comments: My points have not been addressed.
I believe your points were addressed in the above posts. The only problem is that you may not know enough about Koran or Islam and I am not an Islamic scholar to explain every single detail of a religion on here. I have studied different religions in detail and have learned about them and know enough to debate different aspects of it. You need to know the entire religion before you could ask things and debate.
I pointed out that the text provided doesn't support the conclusions drawn. That's correct, period.
No. It isn't correct. It does provide enough evidence as they are making the Main articles of the law system for gender equality, color and racism etc. To go into details of any specific ones, there are alot more to mention and it doesn't end by just that one verse that I have quoted as there are many many other verses and rules set aside through Islamic judicial system that apply as well.
Furthermore, only a single phrase has been added to support the conclusions. The conclusions given may be accurate, but they cannot be drawn *only* from the text provided
And this I believe will be my fourth or fifth time explaining that the verses make the main articles of the law system and there are million other sub-articles that add to it.
If one were speaking to an audience which owned a Quran and were fluent in Arabic, you would be preaching to the faithfull. This is not the case, therefore you must PROVIDE the evidence. I have no bias here. I read what is written and interpret accordingly.
I am not a preacher and nor do I preach. I am on here correcting people's understanding of different religions. I have studied comparative religion and know enough about them to argue and debate. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 109 | |
| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 5:58:39 PM | I am friends with many people who speak Arabic, Farsi, and related Semitic languages as "mother tongue" both Muslim and non-Muslim, and: While I often disagree with my young friend's ^^^ methods, ...when it comes to explaining the many and myriad misinterpretations of these languages that exist here in the west, ...his conclusions and explanations are consistant with what I have been told by my friends who are fluent in Arabic, etc.
And I'll will be honest, these are some of the most honourable, and trustworthy people I know.
Some, when confronted with people who doubt their honesty, get a little peeved, like my young friend does, some just smile and shrug.
I cannot read these languages in their written form, but in the phonetic method of portraying Arabic and Farsi, it's pretty clear that many of the mistranslations are deliberate.
Here is a good variety of Arabic/Islamic scholars and authentic Clerics (hint: bin Laden is not a Cleric, and by Islamic law is forbidden to issue a Fatwa - his Fatwas are without ANY Islamic authority) interperating the Ku'ran's view of terrorism.
Please read, it's very enlightening:
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.ph
Your audience needs to be GIVEN the information.
See link (above) | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/16/2007 6:00:19 PM | Passionteman -
But you are NOT getting my point in the least. The point is that you have not provided the support for the conclusions, and you can't expect your audience to take you at your word and dig up the support themselves. Repeat as often as you like, but you have not supported your conclusions. You are telling me "I'm right, go prove it for me".
I never said you were a preacher. "Preaching to the faithful" and "preaching to the converted" are common sayings, and they refer to the tendency to tell people what they already know. You are not correcting anyone's understanding if you are not presenting the evidence to back yourself up - the only people likely to agree with you will be those who ALREADY have the same information. This is not your audience. Your audience needs to be GIVEN the information. You haven't. You may know enough about religion, but not about debate. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/17/2007 6:09:59 AM | disaronno amaretto said:
Is god still perfect? Yes, but we are not.
Hmmmm, if god were perfect he sure never would have communicated with us via a book which largely depends on deeply flawed humans to do it correctly, which they have not. The bible along with the koran are the greatest hoaxes of all time. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/17/2007 6:37:01 AM |
The bible along with the koran are the greatest hoaxes of all time.
Although I do not believe the Qur'an to be the Word of God, I do not disrespect those who do by offending it or calling it names, as a child would do.
Sensitivity is cool. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/17/2007 7:16:45 AM | dis
Although I do not believe the Qur'an to be the Word of God,
- How do you know that the Torah, The Bible, Vedas and books from other religions are the "Words of God"?
- Do you have a written proof from heavens pointing you to that conclusion? I would be very interested to know.
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/17/2007 7:35:10 AM | You clever man.
First of all, I said
I do not believe the Qur'an to be the Word of God,
How is it that have come to the conclusion that I think there are "Words of God"?
I believe that there is only One Word of God, The Holy Bible. 
Will I ever read material and believe it to be His Word? Maybe but as of yet, no, and I doubt it.
Do you have written proof
Although my Gods Word are "written" I dont think that's what you want.
You want proof?
I read Gods Word. It rang as truth to my ears. My spirit and soul agreed with His Words.
When I read the promises God made, I believed them and He kept them, in my own personal life. That made me "convinced"
But that's me and my life which is totally irrelevant to yours.
God is very personal with His children and our relationship with Him.
If send you a letter that reads "Passionate man, my name is Amy Lee and I like you very much and I will send you flowers if you like me back" if you then write me back and answer me, then receive your flowers, you will be sure that I do exist and that I had not lied. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/17/2007 8:54:24 AM | Dis
How is it that have come to the conclusion that I think there are "Words of God"? I believe that there is only One Word of God, The Holy Bible.
Will I ever read material and believe it to be His Word? Maybe but as of yet, no, and I doubt it.
- Oh my bad. My way of things are different than yours. For me, there has to be proof and fact before I could believe something. I can't unknowingly believe something without actually researching and finding things out.
- I wouldn't ask you to provide me evidence as to how you believe the Bible is the only "Word of God" because I don't believe I will get the right answer. It will turn into a maize. :)
- I am not bound by religion at all and don't like to fit myself into one "particular box" that I call religion. It tends to limit one's vision.
Although my Gods Word are "written" I dont think that's what you want.
- Ofcourse it is written, but many many years after Jesus's death, which may or may not carry the same weight as it used to.
-In the writings that come from the early stages of Christianity, the Gospels are not mentioned until long after the works of Paul. It was not until the middle of the Second century A.D., after 140 A.D. that accounts began to appear concerning a collection of Evangelic writings, In spite of this, "from the beginning of the Second century A.D., many Christian authors clearly intimate that they knew a. great many of Paul's letters." These observations are set out in the Introduction to the Ecumenical Translation of the Bible, New Testament.
The Gospels, later to become official, i.e. canonic, did not become known until fairly late, even though they were completed at the beginning of the Second century A.D. According to the Ecumenical Translation, stories belonging to them began to be quoted around the middle of the Second century A.D. Nevertheless, "it is nearly always difficult to decide whether the quotations come from written texts that the authors had next to them or if the latter were content to evoke the memory of fragments of the oral tradition.
1. Neither Matthew nor John speaks of Jesus's Ascension. Luke in his Gospel places it on the day of the Resurrection and forty days later in the Acts of the Apostles of which he is said to be the author. Mark mentions it (without giving a date) in a conclusion considered unauthentic today. The Ascension therefore has no solid scriptural basis. Commentators nevertheless approach this important question with incredible lightness.
2. The Gospels contain very few passages which give rise to a confrontation with modern scientific data.
I cannot accept the fact that a text is declared authentic and inspired by God when I read that only twenty generations existed between the first man and Abraham. Luke says this in his Gospel (3, 23-28).
So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to the Christ fourteen generations". (Matthew, I, 1-17)
The genealogy given by Luke (3, 23-38) is different from Matthew. The text reproduced here is from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible:
3.Had God forgotten to name His own Book? Is there any verse in the Bible that dictates that the name of the book be "Bible" and or the "Old Testament" or "New Testament".
4. Why does every Gospel begin by the phrase "According to"? Is there author's authograph? I haven't found any version that has one??????
I found this verse interesting:
"And as Jesus passed forth thence, HE (JESUS) saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and HE (JESUS) saith unto HIM (MATTHEW), follow ME (JESUS) And HE (MATTHEW) arose, and followed HIM (JESUS)."
(Matthew 9:9)
It looks to me that the "He's" and the "Him's" of the above quotation do not refer to Jesus or Matthew as its author, but some third person writing what he saw and heard? Doesn't it make you think twice if the Bible is the same "Words of God" originally revealed to Jesus?
You want proof?
Always.
I read Gods Word. It rang as truth to my ears. My spirit and soul agreed with His Words.
That's your own personal feelings and believe system though. It doesn't ring any bells in my ears. I read things critically.
If send you a letter that reads "Passionate man, my name is Amy Lee and I like you very much and I will send you flowers if you like me back" if you then write me back and answer me, then receive your flowers, you will be sure that I do exist and that I had not lied.
We are talking human communication here. Not God and human communication. Have you received any flowers from God for real? | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 6/18/2007 6:16:20 AM | | Passionate........I believe what D is saying is she doesnt need proof to verify her belief in God...everyone has had a time in their life whereby they have asked God for help and he has been there for them without fail......this is more then enough validation in one's beliefs in God. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 5/24/2009 10:42:35 AM | Absolute poppycock on so many levels. Thank you, madam thread necro, for bringing your worthless hogwash to a long-forgotten thread.
Let's break this open, shall we?
-He killed 600-900 jews(all males including boys in the entire tribe were beheaded) and enslaved the females(rape victims)
The ancient semitic tribes did many similar things, as recorded in your christian bible. Looking at pre-modern civilizations through modern eyes is anthropologically invalid.
-Mohammed owned many salves
I'm sure he did. I own quite a few salves, myself- I particularly enjoy aloe vera for burns. Would you like some?
- Mohammed said that sex with salve girls is OK(Hadiths). That’s in addition to four wives limit, but Mohammed had 11-13 wives and in his late 50’s married a 6 year old girl(can you say pedophile)
The Old Testament has a great deal of the same thing happening. Sexual intercourse with slaves was not considered immoral in any way until almost the turn of the 20th century. Having multiple wives- despite what conventional nonsense would indicate- wasn't like having a wild harem to indulge your every sexual fantasy. It was more like being the mayor of a town full of women all fighting for attention, all needing resources, all completely incapable of self-sufficiency, and all incapable of leaving.
-In Islam they kill animals by sliting their throats(Halal meat) and letting them bleed to death (totally disgusting)
That's also called "kosher", and is actually a very humane way to kill an animal- see, it bleeds very quickly, and the immediate drop in blood pressure causes it to lose consciousness. The animal hardly suffers at all.
- the Koran is full of plagiarism, its basically a bunch of stuff stolen from the Christen Bible and Jewish Torah with some new crazy stuff thrown in.
You can't "plagiarize" ancient canon- there are many similarities, yes, because- here's the shocking thing- Islam and Judaism share a common cultural environment, which means common mythical backgrounds, common traditions, common foods, common practices, etc. Saying the Qu'ran is a plagiarized Bible is like saying St. Louis is a plagiarized Kansas City.
For example,
-you’re allowed to beat your wives(you tube the Arabs discussing this topic)
It was legal to beat one's wife in the States for many years. It was seen as criminal, in fact, not to. Women's rights is a creation of the modern era in its entirety, and simply did not exist prior to industrialization in any meaningful way. Hell, it still doesn't exist now in many places- blaming that entirely on Islam is ignoring the actual problem.
-you’re allowed to have sex with your wives whenever you want(remember that law that was being circulated in Afghanistan this year which allows the husband to rape his wives), this is in the Koran
Let's see you cite the passage, then. The one that speficially states such, and leaves absolutely nothing to interpretation whatsoever. Oh, wait, you can't- because you're a barely-literate troll-thread necro.
-the Koran states the earth is flat(Islamic science stolen from the Greeks lol)
Not stolen, translated. See, while good Christians were burning books, muslims were translating the Greek philosophies and thus, allowing them to survive. While europeans were hunting witches, muslims were inventing mathematics as we know it. While europeans were wallowing in their own excrement and filth and rotting corpses were in the gutters, muslims were studying medicine and dentistry and architecture and, you know, keeping civilization alive.
- Muslims are allowed to lie to non-believers and its called ‘Al-Taqiyya’
Your point is, what? They also taxed non-muslims (jizra). Which, in my opinion, is far better than torturing and murdering non-believers, like their christian counterparts were doing all over europe. Vlad Tepes, anyone?
Islam was never a religion of peace.
Actually, the overwhelming majority of Islamic civilization has been peaceful. Just because some turban-wearing suicide bomber rams a plane into a building doesn't negate the centuries of enlightenment and progress that Islam propagated before him.
Islam spread by the sword and when the people were conquered some had the choice of not converting, but had to pay a high tax(if they didn’t pay they would be killed and the woman raped).
True- except for the raping bit. Which is still far superior to the christian equivalent of medieval europe and colonial America: convert, or we kill you, your family, your neighbors, your animals, your village, and everything that looks like you.
This tax resulted in a lot of conversions. For example, just recently (April 2009)the Taleban imposed a tax on Sikhs in Pakistan and confiscated all their property and businesses(That’s real Islam for you and how it spread).
Which was an illegal action, as the Taliban is not in charge of Pakistan, and the Pakistani army is currently trying to force the Taliban out. And even were that not the case, that is not Islam, that is a bunch of illiterate, misogynistic idiots spreading misinformation and lies in a pitiful attempt to get other people to do what they order them to do. Much like you are doing, right here, in this thread. Good job.
This Sufi branch of Islam is not accepted by the mainstream. Historians such as Will Durant contend that Islam spread through violence.
Actually, Sufi Islam is more akin to the mainstream than radical Islam. Will Durant speaks about the decline of empires and equal rights, not about religions. Care to find a quote that supports your claim?
No sane person would conclude Mohammed was a prophet and was more like Hitler/Stalin(the dictators in the Arab world had a good role model lol).
Perhaps in the modern age, no. But neither would Jesus have been considered a prophet if he were alive now. Religious movements- particularly Western ones- only translate to today through interpretation, not literal following.
And again, it is not Islam that creates terrorists, it is manipulative old **stards who corrupt Islam for their own ends. Saying Islam is at fault for, say, Omar al-Bashir is like saying Christianity is at fault for Hitler and charlemagne.
To the same members of the boards: I know this is troll-bait, and though I have done so, I would ask others not to encourage this level of idiocy by getting involved. Let's let this thread go back into the aether, hm? | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 5/24/2009 1:43:23 PM | RE Msg: 105 by FrogO_Oeyes:
The Bible most definitely lacks this strength, is it has been sequentially translated AND reworded, leaving much of the original intent obscured. There are few if any people who learn the Bible in its original language and wording. Religous Jews. It is a commandment and custom, that ALL Jewish Synagogues read a portion of the Five Books of Moses, every Saturday, in its original language, wording, and cantillations (as it is written to be sung, not just read, like Ancient Greek), and to complete the Five Books of Moses, every year.
At one stage in Jewish history, Jewish synagogues would have a reader to sing the Bible from the original text, AND a translator, to translate it on-the-fly, for those who could not understand the Hebrew. Now, they only have a reader, and listeners rely on the synagogue's copies of the Bible, with the original Hebrew, AND a translation into English.
That's hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions.
RE Msg: 106 by late™:
An understanding of the Ku'ran without the ability to read Arabic is impossible, there are idioms that cannot be translated. This is where those in the west have to rely on translation, and this is where they become woefully misinformed. EXACTLY THE SAME is true of the Bible. It's written in Hebrew, a sister tongue of Arabic. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 5/24/2009 3:30:25 PM | This thread was dormant since 6/18/2007.
Allah the Islamic Name of God was then contracted name of the ancient Arab Moon God. "Th'God" for "The God" in Arabic. The top God of the ancient Arab pantheon of gods.
According to the story, Allah spoke to Mohammand in a vision, telling him to "read" or "recite" which later became the Qur'an, Koran. In the visions, Allah renounced the ancient Arab claims to that Name to be false.
Teaching that the first man was created from clots of blood. That Jesus was born of Mary without a human father. That Mary was NOT Allah's wife. And Allah has no son. (Irony: the ancient Arab Moon god Allah had three daughers.  )
And since Jesus was Allah's prophet, as was Moses and Abraham. Allah would not let His prophet be killed by the hands of the Jews. And so according to the Koran Jesus was not put to death as was supposed.
Now unlike the ancient Hebrew texts and Christian Greek texts of the New Testment, they are not allowed ancient variant readings of the Koran to exist. Even so, a few variant manuscripts do survive. Not many. Most were distroyed, when ever possible. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 5/24/2009 7:32:25 PM |
The Islamic golden age is a myth. Science, astrology, and math were created by Greeks, Romans, and Hindus. For example, the “Arabic numbers” are actually “Hindu numbers”. Also, the fundamentals of Algebra were created by Hindus such as quadratic equations and algorithms. Just because you conquer people by the sword does not mean you steal their creations and claim them as your own. In Cordova, the streets had street lamps, and plenty of public libraries. The oldest universities in the world are in the Islamic world. Moreover, it was the Europeans who called the modern number system "Arabic numerals". Further, Arab mathematicians didn't invent algebra, but they still wrote books on how to solve real-world problems using it. They advanced many fields, including medicine.
However, many Europeans still held a huge grudge against them, as they showed that they were much smarter and far more civilised than the Europeans of the time, which is why when you go to Spain, you can see the Islamic architecture and geometric-patterned designs everywhere, but most Spanish people think it came from Spain, and have no idea of just how much they own to the Moors. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 5/25/2009 12:28:20 AM | *sigh*
Some trolls one just can't help but feed. Has this thread been reported yet? | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 5/25/2009 6:23:02 AM | | 9:28 infact all of chapter 9 is just about sums up the Koran, the last chapter revealed to Mohammed. No moslem and moslem apologist to this day ever had a excuse for it nor the bloodshed it caused. | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 11/2/2009 6:52:22 PM | WOW! This a great thread. Report what? Report that people are interested in the truth?
Criticism of the Bible is one of the greatest paths to understanding of the scriptures. Strong's Concordance assigns a number to each word. It assists greatly in understanding the translator's plight. When is a tree just a tree, for example. Hebrew is a language that languished for 500 years and made a comeback. The only one I know of to have made such a leap. The care given to translation is to be admired and respected.
It is my belief the Quran has been corrupted to facilitate the recruitment of innocents who are desperate to believe in anything. It is used to fuel hatred and that is NOT the message of Christianity. Slice it how you will.
After reading much of this thread I still don't know what Islam is. I don't suppose it is any easier for a non-christian to get a universal answer as to what Christianity is.
Is there no redemption in Islam? No grace? And what of faith? ... Anyone??  | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 11/5/2009 3:41:06 PM | ^^^^^
i agree with you
also when it comes down to it, there is too much bloodshed done in the name of a god for zealots to prove their god is right, its just not on,, bith christians and muslims have been killing over their damn books for thousands of years, its just stupid
i believe in peace, so therefore i can only be an Atheist, to be any religion is just evil as they all stem from bloodshed, if i believe anything religious it will be that the devil wrote all these korans and bibles just to keep war goiing so he can get his souls?
point is peace rules, not hatred war and death
burn all those stupid books and be your own boss and just do what is right
the world will be a better place
its a contradiction in terms for someone to say they are peace loving and also to believe in a God whether christian muslim or otherwise | |
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| Introduction of Islam
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:44:18 PM | Goodgodgirl
It is my belief the Quran has been corrupted to facilitate the recruitment of innocents who are desperate to believe in anything.
- That definitely might be your "belief", but that's not the reality in Koran unless you have verses from the Koran in CONTEXT that you could quote for us on here to support your claim.
And...........
- Please avoid going on google and searching for stuff and copying and pasting it on here because then I will be asking you follow up questions that will require you to explain the history of the verse, what the reason was based on Islamic history to the reveleation of the verse, the time the verse was revealed and what its purpose was and all.
It is used to fuel hatred
- Again, you would need to back up your claims by providing verses from the Koran and I REPEAT that they must be IN CONTEXT where you would explain the verses, the time they were revealed, what the purpose was, history of the verse itself, situation the verse was revealed for etc.
and that is NOT the message of Christianity. Slice it how you will.
- I am sure you will be quoting something like this from google. 
"Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35)
Is there no redemption in Islam? No grace? And what of faith? ... Anyone??
- In Islam, everyone is responsible for their own sins. There is no such thing as original sin. Nobody carries someone else's sin or dies for someone else's sins. However, according to many verses in the Koran, it says that God is merciful, compassionate, forgiving etc. Therefore, Muslims can ask for forgiveness through prayer from God, acts of charity etc. That's one way to redeem yourself of sins. Thus, you are reponsible for saving yourself by doing great deeds in the world and not harming, hurting others, charity, prayer etc.
Plentyofdoubt
also when it comes down to it, there is too much bloodshed done in the name of a god for zealots to prove their god is right, its just not on,, bith christians and muslims have been killing over their damn books for thousands of years, its just stupid [ /quote] - Could you provide some historical evidence as to the fact that Muslims have been killing Christians for thousands of years over their books? Any verses from the Koran where it dictates Muslims to go kill Christians? - Please don't copy and paste google searches of verses on here unless you are ready to explain the context and history of the verses, why they were revealed, their purpose, meaning behind them etc. since I will be asking you to explain them if you did. i believe in peace, so therefore i can only be an Atheist, to be any religion is just evil as they all stem from bloodshed - Your profile says Lutheran. Am I smelling hypocrisy here? | |
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