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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/8/2007 7:18:02 AM | Im guessing none of you have been divorced...had someone you love just walk out and leave you penniless and homeless....trust me its worse if you came here from another country...anyone who thinks it is all bs, were obviously the people who screwed up their partners life.
Here is some advice for all those talking out of their ass........shut the hell up....PTSD maybe.....or maybe Im tired of people disrespecting other peoples pain | |
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lorie1
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Joined: 5/23/2006
Msg: 77 | |
| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/8/2007 7:31:42 AM | Hi Peter, I read your post with interest.I want to mention something though, regarding your comment about ptsd... Divorce sure is separate from early childhood abuse ,but ,thing is, stress is stress.It is how it is felt in the body of the person who is going though what might be the biggest traumatic event in their lives...it might only seem like divorce to those who have endured deeper past trauma,but the person who is experiencing it only knows what they know by what is happening to them.
I know you are probably angry,given what you spoke about in you post.You have every right to be so, your past experience is awful.
Thing is, I suspect once you have more miles on you in your own recovery,you may learn to know what to target,about specifics in PTSD that differentiate between causes ,but have similar results.
I wish you well in your personal recovery.It is very possible to help ones self .Your nightmares will gradually diminsh, becuase you will get better understanding of your triggers,and learn the most important fact~
You are a separate entity from all your experiences.An experience however awful,IS AN EVENT....It need not define you...You will learn to cope with the past, as you gain more understanding of who you are,what you mean to you...Life does get better,because as you learn to realise that now, as an adult, you have choices.
I really wish you all the best. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/8/2007 9:36:22 AM | To those misunderstanding what I said about PTSD.
I am not stating that any stress/trauma related to a divorce is in anyway different than that of someone with PTSD.
(Stress/trauma, no matter how you cut it, will effect every single different person differently. Some can handle it, some can't.)
What I am stating is that anyone with a baseless assumption that everyone who experiences a divorce gets PTSD, is wrong.
Like I said earlier. Blanket generalization of people in any category is wrong.
People are mis-reading what I had to say on the subject.
And no, I'm not "angry" about any of this topic(Except my past, which cannot be changed, only dealt with/shared with others to hopefully stop it from happening again.), I am simply stating that people need to think before they speak, and stop putting everyone into a single category because they believe they are right about something. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/8/2007 9:51:54 AM |
When people stop harping on the sanctity of marriage and how marriages must be "saved," then the last of the stigmas will go away.
And the feminazi regime strikes again!!! | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/8/2007 2:09:11 PM | | Peter, thank you for your clarification on what you WERE saying. Your last post is clearer...of course not EVERY DIVORCED PERSON goes through PTSD! Some, like myself....CELEBRATED! :) | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 2:12:01 AM | That a girl Harleycat...lolol...It is an oversight that, there are people who do 'celebrate'
there divorces and then, there PTSD symptoms disappear after getting away from their ex's...lol... So, on that note, in some cases, divorce alleviates PTSD...LOL!
I have seen a few postings, that some people are getting a little perturbed at the over use of the word PTSD in situations...I know what you guys are talking about, I have had extensive Therapy for full blown PTSD and i assure anyone out there that, you don't want to experience this...
PTSD does come on many levels...For eg. If one was traumatized, in a relationship from someone who was manipulative and abusive, often after a relationship of that capacity an individual will have reactions to someone else, simply when a behavior or mannerism mimics a past event from the previous relationship, it then trips the memories in the person who was abused...then they become overly suspicious of their new mates and often go on to think that, everyone is manipulative and abusive...
They are in fact having PTSD reaction to their experiences, in their previous relationship...
For my brothers and sisters on here who have seen the real traumas in life...I here your pain...If you are still suffering form this please IM me...I know of very effective
treatments and meds that "changed my life" for the better, the flash backs just don't have the punch anymore and the Depression, and emotionally shutting down, is gone...
I feel like a new person..but...it takes very hard work and i will tell you now, it is
a bit "brutal" ...But, if you wnat to get over these traumas, their is no other way...
I see why some people with full blown PTSD, you would think that no one else could possibly have what we have..
But people do...On different levels...It isn't as severe but, they are still hurting inside..
I use to get so mad at people, for people thinking they had PTSD, from their jobs etc etc, for PTSD almost destroyed my life.
However, I started to see that, it didn't matter who had it worse, or how they got PTSD...What mattered was, that people were suffering from PTSD, on a different level and most people they haven't gone threw what I have or combat vets have...But regardless, it doesn't change the fact that, they are still hurting and deserved and needed support...
If anything i ended up seeing that, it is the people who have "Complex PTSD" like myself and a couple of others do on this thread, that people like us could assist and help people, because of what we have been threw and overcome....
Point being, it doesn't matter how you got PTSD...It matters that people are understanding and help you, help yourself to overcome this very debilitating disorder...Again, anyone out there feeling the pain of this and you don't feel like you know what to do please..IM me,,,It would be my pleasure to inform you of very effective treatments for this...If you are having problems at your VA...over this, then
there are some very effective meds that can get you by until you recieve the proper treatment...SSRI inhibitors work well, so does a drug called Lamotrigine...
My Dr. uses Lamotrigne with combat vets all the time and has a good success rate with it...So, talk to a Dr. about these medication treatments..They really help...
this is a good topic, i really appreciate the OP posting this... | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 10:27:15 AM |
And the feminazi regime strikes again!!!
And another low self-esteemed male who cannot read and understand things in context speaks . . . again.
I have heard men say exactly the same thing that I said about marriage--it isn't a feminazi, or even a feminist, statement. People who cling ot the idea that marriage should never be terminated are speaking from religious ideology that not everyone buys into. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 10:34:14 AM |
Im guessing none of you have been divorced......had someone you love just walk out and leave you penniless and homeless
I was divorced. I was the one who left and I was the one who was penniless and homeless, but the experience was liberating. It was difficult on many levels, but it led me to the life I am living now, and I like my life. We all have choices in life, sometimes those choices cannot and should not include influencing the actions of others. We can't and shouldn't keep a partner who chooses to go, but we can control our actions and our feelings about the leaving. There is a time to mourn and to grieve, and there is a time to heal and to get on with life. I have been accused of being bitter, but there is also a time to let go of bitterness in order to become a whole person again.
We cannot know what goes on in the minds of other people--you really do not know how much your partner might suffered before and after he left.
Here is some advice for all those talking out of their ass........shut the hell up....PTSD maybe.....or maybe Im tired of people disrespecting other peoples pain
Here's some advice for you: no one is disrespecting you or denying your pain, but you are doing the same thing of which you are accusing others. You are applying your feelings, emotions, and hurts to everyone else. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 10:55:57 AM | Gwendolyn2006, my self esteem is just fine. You stated that the sanctity of marriage is a stigma. I can usually understand context speak, but it is hard to understand context when it is riddled with bitterness.
A marriage licenses is a contract and came into effect to protect assets.
I do need clarification here. I am not familiar with the origins of marriage or the license required for it. Can you tell me about the history of this?
Marriage licenses should be renewable--after five or ten years, if the marriage isn't working, don't renew the license.
What is the point in getting married? Why even bother? Is it for tax purposes? Why have a timeline when a divorce can be done at anytime?
People who cling ot the idea that marriage should never be terminated are speaking from religious ideology that not everyone buys into.
Did marriage itself not start with religion? If you do not like religious ideologies, then again, why bother with marriage?
Think about it, before religious contracts, what made a couple mate for life? Was it because it was mutually beneficial? Why do people not just move in with each other and mate for life? That way you have the family, the mating, the strength of the relationship, and all without the religious and tax connotations. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 5:02:59 PM |
but it is hard to understand context when it is riddled with bitterness
I am not speaking from bitterness, I am speaking from common sense.
I do need clarification here. I am not familiar with the origins of marriage or the license required for it. Can you tell me about the history of this?
If you examine history, millions of people, including Christians, lived together without the "benefit" of clergy for many reasons. I am sure that you are familiar with the phrase "common law spouse" which meant that merely living together for a specified time meant that the couple was married. The rich and the nobility had marriage "licenses" because there was property at stake. For centuries, even millennia, marriages were not based on the idea of romantic love, but were prearranged for social gain or for convenience (among the poor). A marriage license cemented the contract between the families of the couple getting married. It also meant the children of the married couple were legitimate so that they stood first in line to inherit titles or property. This was carried to excess by the Egyptians wherein the pharoah married his sister or daughter whenever he could in order to cement his position as king. The marriages were political and religious because the pharoah was the god/king.
The tenets of the marriage contract were legal and binding as they pertained to property, etc. Remember Henry the 8th? The Pope refused to grant him a divorce--Henry wanted one because he needed a llegitimate male heir (he already had an illegitimate son). Prenuptial contracts are nothing new; children were betrothed, and to break the betrohal could be a serious matter.
For example, here in the Ozarks where I live, in the early days, preachers were often far and few between. If a couple wanted to marry, they moved in together and announced that they were married. If a preacher came along later and married them, great, but to the community, they were married.
What is the point in getting married? Why even bother?
Indeed, what is the point in getting married? For tax purposes, yes; for inheriting property, yes--there are practical reasons for getting married. Many people marry in order to legitimize their children. Today, people are getting married later in life (as they have in other periods of history). I don't know the stats, but I bet marriages as a whole are declining.
Did marriage itself not start with religion? If you do not like religious ideologies, then again, why bother with marriage?
Marriage is most often seen as a religious institution, but even atheists get married. Many people got married because to live in "sin" (barring circumstances I discussed above), was a social stigma. In the 1960s, our parents were abhorred when young people began to live togetherl; now, it is common.
Humans are not monogamous by nature; we seek diversity in our lives, including sexual partners and partners than complement different stages of our lives. We grow and evolve (some of us do), and often a couple will do so in different directions. To say that such a couple should stay married because they ARE married is silly. To say that a marriage should be "saved" at any cost is ludicrous and caused many people (women and men) much unhappiness in the past. In reality, if a couple lives together, a break-up that only one party wants will emotionally harm the other, regardless of their married or unmarried state--being married just makes the legality harder, not the spent emotions.
Divorce has already lost much of the stigma that was once attached to it; as time passes, it will lose more of its stigma. To marry or not marry is a personal decision; to divorce is a personal decision, as well. If people understand when they marry that marriage is not necessarily a " 'til death do us part" situation, the pain of breaking up might be softened. Wiccans have handfastings, a usually public ceremony (that is often NOT legally recognized) wherein the couple says they will stay together "as long as they love." That makes a lot more sense. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 5:17:23 PM |
wherein the couple says they will stay together "as long as they love."
Well then, since marriage is pointless, I think that I will decide to change my way of life. I will start having random sex partners and then ditch them, especially if they get pregnant. Why would I want to stick around for that? Woman are not worth the headache of a LTR. I will use them as I see fit and then move on. | |
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LUDR23
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Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 87 | |
| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 5:53:06 PM | I think refering to the first post, any traumatic event in one's life, it can be anything can effect somene for life. It really depends how they are coping.
I have to agree that the breakdown of marriage, and the lack of respect for the vow is not improving the idea of marrige as a postive ,life affirming event.
With our instant gradification society,more people seem to want more, never appreciating what they have,and continue to become unhappy baming the other person for what went wrong.
I feel that there is a lack of strong foundation in our educational institutions that can explain why there is no real learning between a healthy relationship and sex.
I believe every person is responsible for their own actions.
When trauma coming in, that very difficult to judge based on a general conclusion such as this issue.
I feel that anyone getting married , there ought to be tougher laws against just deciding in getting hitched.
The breakdown of families and children effect everyone in society not just the people close to them.
How do we rate our selves spiritually when the breakdown of family is the most important to child's life ,and can effect there dreams for a better life.
I diagree that a abused woman/man might have a more exciting time.
Since when not even understanding what any kind of abuse or violence can have in effect with how one lives their life.
If the basic foundation which starts with the family is broken, it takes years and help to
learn to lead a positive life.
Which concludes how can one person who is having trouble and does not seek help in loving one self ,can learn to respect and love the person they decided to make a vow with.
That vow is broken ,where is the respect.
If a partner has suffered some trauma or is having trouble coping , is that an excuse to say goodbye.
How about learning the reality of the situation,finding a way to cope ,get help if both people really believe that they have taken the responsibilty of marriage.
The only way is to find out through getting to the know the person.
I also agree some people get married for the wrong reasons.
It does not mean the children are responible.
Children pay the price of what the parents decide to behave and act.
It took me awhile to understand that, and i am still learning.
So going back to the first thread, any traumatic situation even divorce can trigger
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Abuse comes in all forms and it is a wide topic of discussion maybe anther topic of conversation.
I believe people need to learn and get educated on the difference between love and sex. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 9:49:13 PM | Did marriage itself not start with religion? If you do not like religious ideologies, then again, why bother with marriage?
Actually, we were talking about the origins of marriage in another thread, and no, it was actually before the time of religion itself. (Edit : At least Christianity.)
That thread was extremely controversial though. (Should gay marriage be called a union or a marriage?)
You say this...
but it is hard to understand context when it is riddled with bitterness.
And then in response to this...
wherein the couple says they will stay together "as long as they love."
You say this...
Well then, since marriage is pointless, I think that I will decide to change my way of life. I will start having random sex partners and then ditch them, especially if they get pregnant. Why would I want to stick around for that? Woman are not worth the headache of a LTR. I will use them as I see fit and then move on.
Isn't that the very definition of "bitter"?
Main Entry: 1bit·ter
Pronunciation: 'bi-t&r
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English biter; akin to Old High German bittar bitter, Old English bItan to bite -- more at BITE
1 a : being or inducing the one of the four basic taste sensations that is peculiarly acrid, astringent, or disagreeable and suggestive of an infusion of hops -- compare SALT, SOUR, SWEET b : distasteful or distressing to the mind : GALLING :a bitter sense of shame:
2 : marked by intensity or severity: a : accompanied by severe pain or suffering :a bitter death: b : being relentlessly determined : VEHEMENT :a bitter partisan: c : exhibiting intense animosity :bitter enemies: d (1) : harshly reproachful :bitter complaints: (2) : marked by cynicism and rancor :bitter contempt: e : intensely unpleasant especially in coldness or rawness :a bitter wind:
3 : expressive of severe pain, grief, or regret :bitter tears:
Can you even see what we're seeing?
I'm not trying to say you are wrong, and that people shouldn't honor a marriage vow, because I believe that any vow/word of bond/statement made should be honored to the fullest extent, but the problem nowadays seems to be that people aren't making lifelong commitments when they speak.
Divorce's have been around in many different religions for a long time, to nullify these bonds when both parties agree it is no longer in their best interests.
(Anyone hear about what Prince Charles had to do for the church in order to marry Camilla(sp?) over in England....I was vaguely hearing about it through the news over here...but maybe someone who's over there can shed more light on those ceremonies...?)
Wiccans have handfastings, a usually public ceremony (that is often NOT legally recognized) wherein the couple says they will stay together "as long as they love."
I suppose bringing up Wiccan beliefs in a religious conversation(Which is what this topic seems to be focusing on...), wasn't the best idea. A lot of religions consider wicca to be "Out there" or "sinful". (No, I don't agree they are, in fact, I've known a few wiccans myself..).
The whole point is that all religions differ on crucial matters.
I suppose it would help to know what specific religion you are basing your marriage ideas off of, so we could actually understand where you are coming from. (She was only trying to say what one viewpoint on the matter at hand is, Wiccan.) | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 10:18:02 PM |
Isn't that the very definition of "bitter"?
LOL, no, instead, look up the word sarcasm, it is bitter with a twist. My statement had ironic intentions. Irony is another good word to look up.
Wiccans have handfastings, a usually public ceremony (that is often NOT legally recognized) wherein the couple says they will stay together "as long as they love."
The Wiccan way of life has only been around for about 100 years. It is a poor attempt at getting back to the way things were before the Catholics began their bloodshed.
Original handfastings( if you were referring to the old Scottish, Irish/Celtic ways) were for life. The love was for life.
Leave it to the feminazis to get confused about reality. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 10:30:48 PM |
LOL, no, instead, look up the word sarcasm, it is bitter with a twist. My statement had ironic intentions. Irony is another good word to look up.
Well, just for your information, sarcasm, irony, and the like, tend to not go over so well in text form. (I've had to learn that the hard way.)
I know what they are, in fact I enjoy satire.
Just remember, in text form, lots of misunderstandings are made.
And snappy vicious sounding responses definitely don't go over well. (That's why I pointed it out to you.)
Just letting you know. ^ ^ | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 10:38:08 PM |
Well, just for your information, sarcasm, irony, and the like, tend to not go over so well in text form.
True. They don’t go over very well in real life conversations either. It is a shame really. I do not understand why people are so dry and humorless. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 11:33:03 PM | I agree that there are divorces that have triggered PTSD, but to say that divorce itself CAUSES PTSD for everyone is just wrong. Many people get divorced to AVOID being traumatized to the point of PTSD. Many divorces are hardly traumatizing at all, particularly when there are no children involved.
I also think that trying to return marriage to its former state, when people stayed married because there was no alternative, is a crime. We should be thinking in terms of evolution, not looking back to a model that didn't work very well, even when it was held sacred.
Are we talking about a legal bond, or a sacred bond? If we're talking about the latter, then take the courts out of it. If we're talking about the former, then take the mystery out of it. It all seems very convoluted to me. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/9/2007 11:42:56 PM | peter, please explain "feminazis". i am a feminist, jewish and clearly not nazi. i believe in the sanctity of marriage as a romantic principle. i do not believe one should stay in an abusive or dysfunctional marriage. i know that marriage and the taking of the man's name had originally to do with property rights which i can tell you more about in email if you wish as that's not this thread. by feminism i believe in equal rights for women. that does not mean that men should be taken advantage of either. there are many good women on this thread. your statment is offensive to me, unless i am not understanding your basis for it. my father was verbally abusive when drunk. he also had a few wacking tantrums here and there against my mom and me. when he wasn't drunk, he'd give you the shirt off his back. i wish she had divorced him. however, i don't call all men drunks or drunken nazis because of one person. he too, by the way, was abused and self medicating and also quite the genius. i wish i had known he was an alcoholic back then. he made his own gin in the chem lab and did not go to bars. so i had no clue until many years later. unfortunately he was dead by then.
i do believe we each have an individual spiritual search. but i also believe that love has a spiritual component and sex without love is like fast food versus a really good dinner. to each his/her own. everyone has had different experiences. the question becomes, how do you raise children in a single parent home and make sure that both sexes get exposed to good examples of both sexes? this is whether the custodial parent is male or female. it's a lot harder to find male big brothers and mentors than it is to find females. i know, i've tried for my fost/adopt son. it's even hard for kids to go back and forth between houses, when the parents are trying to communicate on behalf of the children. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/10/2007 2:32:49 AM | oops sorry. translation, please explain....
ps peter, i don't think you are in denial at all. you are a person i would hold as a role model for other young people who have post trauma from childhood abuse. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/10/2007 6:33:45 AM | I have read this thread... and... sometimes symptoms do tell you something...
I bring this to the table... Is it possible that "marriage" is not a natural way to live for us?... Just wondering...
Marriage was "invented" by humans and in the Catholic religion anyway, Marriage was used to sort of create order and a level of control.... ie: the child is indeed from the man she is married to... Transfer of lands and titles... inheritences... etc... (based on roman's way to transfer of property...)
We all know who is the mother of the child but sometimes it is not as obvious as to who the father is...
I believe a man invented marriage... 
I mean... Henry the eight, just killed his wives because in his religion at the time, he could not divorce them... also... they had to bear him sons,... which they did not... He then "invented" an other religion in order to be able to divorce... protestant... (The word protest is in that denomination...)
Anyway... All throughout history... realy... who was faithful to who?
Maybe marriage is not a "natural" way for us to progress... We do want to "make" ourselves believe that we can have one mate for a lifetime... Maybe it is not in our genes to have only on mate for a lifetime...
Just musing...
PS: Maybe that is the root cause of PTSD... Going against the grain sort of speak... | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/10/2007 8:51:00 AM | ANNASTHASIA..........I believe you are quite correct in your analysis of where the institution of marriage originated from, but I cannot find any real hard evidence of it.
I believe it was created by the "men in dresses" in the early years of Catholism. Religions of the world have defined what the "traditional roles" of a man and a woman should be, but we have some very hard evidence that it is not working due to the high divorce rate.
Marriage was sugar-coated for women, and they bought it up like chicken soup and fairy-tale fluff.
I still believe that a man and a woman were designed to live harmoniously with each other in a monogomous relationship, but the roles need to be re-defined so that both get a little of what they want.
Sorta like re-inventing the wheel...........just a thought. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/10/2007 9:52:20 AM |
I believe a man invented marriage.
Why do you believe that?
I do believe, and yes it is a belief because I was not there to witness it, that a man and woman union for life is the natural way. Before civilization, when folks roamed the land. If you look at all cultures, most have a one male one female for life relationship.
Or, if you are religious, there was Adam, he was lonely, god created for him a woman. So in that sense, god created a woman to be a life long partner for a man.
The Feminazi Regime!!! Good question. These are the women that protest unity, protest marriage, protest family values, and are often Butch Dyke harlots. The feminist extremists that spread hate and discontent to any woman that will listen. They are not freedom fighters, they are hate spreaders. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/10/2007 12:59:30 PM | well, your last paragraph was pretty hateful in itself. think about it. look at the words you lumped together. many women and men have had bad experiences and need to emote about them. for some it's a temporary feeling, for others they reframe their lives based on disappointment and experiences. some even propose politcal raps to explain how they view society, based upon what has happened to them.
not much different than what you are emoting. there are many gay couples, totally momogamous, with adopted children, and very high on family values. their children would be unclaimed if they did not step in and provide them decent homes. they also deliberately pursue opposite sex role models for their children, my experience even morese than a single heterosexual parent. so far, i know not one gay parent who has raised a gay child. i do know heterosexual parents who have raised gay children. you are what you are. same for you. being gay does not make you a harlot. this is not shakespeare. this is a community of many different people who are trying to survive, some with still more anger to vent than others. | |
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| Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by Divorce
Posted: 6/10/2007 1:13:09 PM | I am not emoting. Let me get some background on the issue:
Feminazi (also spelled femme-nazi) is an invective neologism, used predominantly in the United States and Canada, political rhetoric to characterize women whose ideas are believed by others to be vehemently misandrous; i.e.- having an irrational and extreme hatred of men. [1] The word itself is a portmanteau of the nouns feminist and Nazi. The term does not relate literarily but metaphorically to the National Socialist Women's Organization or any other organization of women who served Nazi Germany.
Origin:
The term was popularized by conservative broadcaster Rush Limbaugh, who credited his friend Tom Hazlett, a professor of law and economics at George Mason University, with coining the term. Limbaugh originally claimed that the word "feminazi" meant not just an extreme feminist but a woman whose goal was that there should be as many abortions as possible, saying at one point that there were fewer than 25 true feminazis in the U.S. Limbaugh also uses the term for women, who in his opinion represent radical feminist opinions. James Joyner noted upon Andrea Dworkin's death that she seemed to typify what critics were calling a "feminazi."
Context:
The term feminazi has developed various connotations. To some pro-life conservatives, it equates feminist advocacy for abortion rights with promoting a holocaust.[citation needed] Others use the word rhetorically to suggest feminist views are being expressed in a unilateral manner.
In the extreme formulation, feminazis are seen by some as women who persecute men or who desire their elimination from the public discourse and any involvement into public affairs. The term is often used either as a derogatory term for feminist or conversely, as a specific term to differentiate between mainstream feminists and an extremist minority.
Some men's rights and father's rights advocates use the term feminazi to describe radical feminist views of men and gender, arguing that radical feminism, like Nazism, establishes a two-class society in which a privileged group may target and discriminate against another group based on immutable traits (in the former case, gender, and in the latter, religion, heritage or other inherent characteristics).
Response:
The term has garnered a good deal of criticism over the years. Many feminists argued it was simply a way to dismiss all feminism or even any group run by or for women as extreme or man-hating. An example of this can be seen when Rush Limbaugh referred to The National Center for Women and Policing as feminazis : The Rush Limbaugh Show (broadcast June 22 2005) Others have pointed out that it would seem contradictory to attempt to associate feminists with Nazis, who were generally opposed to gender equality. The counterpoint to this argument is that the politics and actions that fall under the term have an inherent bias against men, and thus, are opposed to gender equality. Other women have attempted to reclaim "feminazi" by redefining it in their own terms to subvert what they describe as the patriarchal connotations of the label; however, many feminists and others disclaim the Nazi epithet as being offensive to anyone with a memory of World War II.
Some feminist-friendly speakers have made some effort to use the term in a satirical way. Still other feminists have posited their own term, "gender feminism," to refer to statements by other feminists (such as Dworkin) that they consider to be intolerant of men, without using the term "feminazi" themselves. | |
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