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| Electric cars Posted: 6/11/2007 4:55:19 PM |
For example, rising U.S. demand for corn-based ethanol has affected North American corn prices, contributing to the "tortilla" crisis in Mexico.
There is to much of a quick finger being pointed at Ethanol driving up corn prices and starving people. If there was a corn shortage in Mexico...it was made by them. Corn prices today here in Mo. is 4 bucks a bushel, every grain on the market is up. Not due to ethanol, but flooding here and a drought forecast. In the early 80s we had corn piled in the streets of farming town squares because they had so much they had no room to store it, the next year we were out in the fields picking up what the combines missed because white corn was at 6 bucks a bushel (ethanol wasn't even an idea then). We are also exporting corn to China now. The prices will level off as soon as everyone tries to get in on the corn boom....more grown...lower price. Even with the addition of 2 more ethanol plants here, making the total 3, our bins are still full of last years corn and if Mexico is in a tortilla crisis, I am sure they can buy their corn back. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/11/2007 5:29:44 PM | | It seems unlikely that hybrids would be less efficient overall than a Hummer. IC engines and related parts are notorious for wearing out and breaking down. The engine in a hybrid would be fairly small and not need to be used so much. And purely electric cars can be pretty simple. The tranmission and cooling don't need to be complex. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/11/2007 8:06:42 PM | | Theres plenty of technology to replace petrol cars, ie: Air powered, and water powerd cars, but it wont happen until oil is depleted | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/11/2007 8:08:26 PM | | Wonder where they plan to stock pile all the dead batteries. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/11/2007 10:05:18 PM | | Hmmm...I think they can be recycled. But with the combination of hybrids and ethanol to help fuel them..our consumption will be of oil could be at least cut in half, then let the middle east swim in the shit. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/12/2007 10:38:28 AM |
Extreems and batteries don't mix,... yet.
Lithium thionyl chloride is a mix that would work with most of our earthly extremes, ie: -55 to 85 celcius. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/12/2007 10:50:27 AM | | It's not just ethanol that will help. Vegetable oil straight from soybeans or rape (canola) can be used as a fuel without the processing ehtanol needs. If I remember correctly more vehicles are diesel than gas in Europe now and not only do modern diesels burn very very clean but the exhaust smell from even a 40 year old diesel buring veg oil is nowhere near as acrid as burning dino juice. This is really for warm days and climates though, cold weather performance dictates heating aparatus to keep is fluid enough. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/12/2007 10:52:07 AM | Hybrid Prius, working just fine for me, 80% less emissions.
Sure, we can sit here and dream of the cars to come.
But cars won't come unless you buy into what's out there. As a consumer, you have to show the auto makers what you want. Thus the Prius is a great start, and sales are doing well.
Change won't come talking about it, you have to buy(everything is consumer driven), for changes to happen. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/12/2007 10:55:23 AM | "Wonder where they plan to stock pile all the dead batteries."
Where they store all the other dead batteries. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/12/2007 11:02:56 AM | "If you factor in automobile life, recyclabilty, landfill use, hazmats, and energy it takes to produce the auto, you may as well be driving a Hummer instead of that Prius. Just cause its saving money when its in service doesn't mean its saving aggregate energy."
You are referring too a report done by a PR firm for Hummer.
Not reliable. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/12/2007 11:10:40 PM | I like it when people say “Electric Cars” can not keep up with current car technology with respect to range, speed, and versatility. Current “Electric Vehicle” EV cars now have a huge range. Some over 600 miles. As for speed. They will beat the pants off of any “Internal Combustion Engine” ICE. There is a car called the T-Zero that will beat any Porche, 0 to 60 in 3.6 seconds. With a range of over 380 miles. This car was built in 1997! http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero/
There is another car built by the same company. AC Propulsion has custom built EV cars. Tom Hanks bought the first one. It has a range of about 150 miles. http://www.acpropulsion.com/ebox/media.htm The only huge cost is the battery. I am sure that will go down.
If you like sports cars. Want something that goes from 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds? Look at http://www.teslamotors.com/ Their car has a range of 300 miles. To me the car is to busy to be a sports car. Yet most of my friends like it better than a Porche. I'll take the Porche body style any day.
If you want to build your own electric car, you can look at “Metric Mind” http://www.metricmind.com/ they have tons of stuff to purhcase to make your own EV. If you want to see a Honda conversion you can look here. http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/main.htm.
The fastest EV is a 1972 Datsun 510 called the “White Zombie” http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/035.html It eats police cruisers for lunch. As of 2007/04/02 0 to 106 in 10.2 seconds. Sadly it only seats two scared adults.
As for cost of operation. You do not have to worry about oil changes, Coolant lasts for 8 years. Same as if you left the your antifreeze on the shelf and didn't use it. Well that is for EV's that use coolant.
Current battery technology has Lithium Ion batteries that last for 10 years. Lithion a division of Yardney http://www.yardney.com/lithion/index.html have batteries that last for 10 years. Go figure. The Mars rovers are on their third year! Let's hear it for Lithion Batteries! They are getting cheaper and cheaper! Here are three companies that sell batteries.
http://www.yardney.com/lithion/index.html http://www.worley.com.au/v5/page.aspx?id=236 http://www.yardney.com/ ( Ooops!) http://www.powerstream.com/LLLF.htm
As for cost per mile. EV cars have everything beat! Hands down. Let's say you have a car that gets 42 miles per gallon. Actually you will have to get 42 miles per gallon for this formula to work. You are driving a 4000 pound car. 2 tons, the average weight of most US cars fully loaded. Your Car/Van/SUV gets 42 mile per gallon. You pay in California $3.45 per gallon. So it costs you in fuel $3.45 to go the 42 miles. What if you are stuck in traffic? Your engine is still running. Well your EV motor is not! Your MPG goes down. With a EV car you can travel the same distance and it will cost you only $0.69 in fuel/energy. Cal-Cars http://www.calcars.org/ will keep you abreast of the cost of driving an EV.
The formula varies depending on the weight of the vehicle you are driving to determine the amount of electrical energy you are using to the amount of gasoline you would burn.
I had an EV Ford Aerostar Van for quite a few years. I was sad to see it go. Yet I will soon have another EV far better than it ever was. I could only drive it 60 to 80 miles, but I had a full tank each and every morning when I woke up. Never had to wait in a gas line. My monthly electrical bill dropped by $28 to $30 per month. My Chevron bill is two to three times that.
Twelve 100 watt solar panels would fit on the roof of a standard SUV. http://shop2.outpost.com/%7BZ06yCC7eaYccHMYuI5JprQ**.node1%7D/product/4653568#detailed That would give you 1200 watts of charging if you are parked at work, Disneyland, or any shopping center. Eight hours of sunlight would charge a bank of 1000Ah batteries almost ¼ of the way. Put that in the equation of fuel costs.
Take a look at Japan's Eliica. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/51690/eliica_eightwheeler.html Aparently it has a range of 800 miles. I have not been able to confirm it. I have my doubts. But hey! Eight wheels, 800Hp! Seats 3? You, me, your mother? I'll take the Porche.
Electric cars are here to stay. They're coming! Get ready! | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/13/2007 4:18:01 PM | I don't know if anyone posting in this thread has seen the documentary movie "Who Killed The Electric Car" but I just finished seeing it for the first time...IMO some interesting stuff gets talked about and it's worth the viewing time. You can watch it online at Joox, it's in the documentaries listing.
www.joox.net | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/13/2007 7:46:38 PM |
Change won't come talking about it, you have to buy(everything is consumer driven), for changes to happen.
True, however, I need a small truck. Where's MY option? And SUVs are NOT trucks. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/14/2007 9:45:13 PM | From previous post I must say I am fully thinking what I said previously was bogus. The 100k vs 300k life thing I remember and was really a key point that made me bring up the article.
Good job.
the Shep. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/19/2007 3:51:41 PM | http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/news/2007/06/future_engines?currentPage=1
"U.K.-based PML Flightlink put four of its 160-horsepower electric motors in the wheels of a BMW Mini to produce a concept car that shoots from zero to 60 in about four seconds and hits a top speed of 150 miles an hour. The engines also act as brakes, recovering energy that charges a battery and giving the car a range of more than 200 miles. A tiny gasoline motor can be used to recharge the battery for longer trips, on which the car gets 80 miles per gallon.
Another British firm, the Lightning Car Company, has already begun taking orders for its Lightning GT, a sleek, 700-horsepower sports car powered by PML's wheel motors." | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/20/2007 6:35:36 PM | Attention Dreamers!
"TANSTAAFL" T There A Ain't N No S Such T Thing A As A A F Free L Lunch
"U.K.-based PML Flightlink put four of its 160-horsepower electric motors in the wheels of a BMW Mini to produce a concept car that shoots from zero to 60 in about four seconds and hits a top speed of 150 miles an hour. The engines also act as brakes, recovering energy that charges a battery and giving the car a range of more than 200 miles. A tiny gasoline motor can be used to recharge the battery for longer trips, on which the car gets 80 miles per gallon."
WHAT a Concept! .....What a Country! Folks... Don't hold your breath waiting for an electric car that costs $18,000 goes 130 mph, accelerates to 60 in 5 seconds, has a 300 mile range going 70 mph on its batteries alone, and recharges on a "tiny" gasoline motor. -- Tiny motor = Tiny output.
{{ Well, actually, I can deliver one to you tomorrow, if you'll pay me in those pills that you put one in the gas tank and then fill it up with water from the hose, and it's just like premium. Will trade my EV -@- $1 a pill --Oh, and would you like to buy a Bridge? }}
It takes a lot of energy to push a car down the road what with flexy tires, shock absorbers, A/C or Heat, Headlights, Power Steering, Windsheild wipers, your 400 watt Ultra Ultra Mega Bass Tweeterless Stereo, The Nav System, and last but not least - Wind Resistance. What would you be willing to give up? The Heater?, The Wipers?, maybe the Headlights?
Besides .. You have to GET the electricity from somewhere, and until we learn the FREE LUNCH magic that Mr. Telsa had, that means using some sort of heat engine to generate it, brning gas, oil, coal, propane, or !!best case!! hydroelectric, or geo-thermal sources. Photocells are great answer, but what if you live in the Pacific Northwest - 200+ inches or rain a year (Ooops... "200" of liquid sunshine a year")
TANSTAAFL | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/20/2007 6:58:42 PM | Check this out I have been reading about this company for 6 years.
http://www.genesis.rutgers.edu/Partners/millenium.html | |
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atlast
| Joined: 2/25/2007 Msg: 93 | |
| Electric cars Posted: 6/20/2007 7:15:29 PM | | I could build a car that will get 60 miles to a gallon. The problem? Small two seater with 45-50 MPH top speed, and when someone runs over you in their massive, ego feeding SUV, you and your passenger will most likely be dead. This will present a marketing problem. The oil companies have it right: People are too self centered and lazy to do without their gas guzzling vehicles. God forbid that someone's kids should have to walk the two blocks to school, or, gag: ride a bus with "losers" like I did. Helpful hint: Every teenager does not need their own car. They will be lucky if they can afford to put gas in a moped a few years from now. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/23/2007 9:23:58 AM | @ Rick R That company has not made a move in 4 years. The amount of equipment and other protective stuff you would need are huge. BTW Hydrogen is not as explosive as people think. Once released it makes a Bee Line to the upper atmosphere! It does not hang around like a fart.
If you want to bring up the Hindenburg, you will have to understand that it was the air bags that did most of the burning. Gasoline is far more dangerous than Hydrogen. Gasoline vapors will pool on the ground and ignite. Gasoline liquid can squirt on impact and be absorbed into clothing, hair, or body orifice such as eyes, nose, mouth, and ears. It ain't gonna happen with hydrogen!
Rick I am glad you brought up that company. I just looked at their web site. No updates since 2005. Ya did good sir. I had forgotten about them. I feel bad for them. I know they have a dream.
I still say Lithium Ion is the way to go. Once the batteries are toast they can be buried int the ground and they turn in to dirt. The plastic housing can be recycled and used in new batteries. 12 solar panels can be put on the roof of a small van and if let sit for 8 hours would give the car a range of 6 to 8 miles. Also Lithium is the lightest of all metals. Far better than lead batteries!
@AtLast tried to E-Mail you a funny one about teenagers. Oh well your loss. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 6/23/2007 1:31:41 PM |
Besides .. You have to GET the electricity from somewhere, and until we learn the FREE LUNCH magic that Mr. Telsa had, that means using some sort of heat engine to generate it, brning gas, oil, coal, propane, or !!best case!! hydroelectric, or geo-thermal sources. Photocells are great answer, but what if you live in the Pacific Northwest - 200+ inches or rain a year (Ooops... "200" of liquid sunshine a year")
I don't think anybody is expecting a free lunch. But, recharging an electric car from mains electricity is a) cheaper than gas and b) where it's generated from hydro and/or nuclear has a substantially smaller carbon footprint, jah?
Tesla never got free power as far as I know. He just wanted to use the resonant frequency of the earth (7cps) and build transitting and reciving towers so we wouldn't need wires; he'd hav a standing wave that encirled the earth - if I unserstand this correctly. I'm lousy at physics.
But, there is a crazy inventor up the road that has invented some gizmo that recharges batteries from the air. It only works on dry windy days and actually discharges them on cloudy still days (he says he needs to chnage the circuitry to fix this). I have no idea how it works, but I have seeen it in action.
Solar would of course be the ultimate for recharging electric cars but it's not very efficient right now and as you point out some places (waves, Ontario, hi) don't get a lot of sun year round. The answer there is solar concentrators and arrays of mirrors on heliostats. There do now exist solar cells that can take very concentrated sunlight and convert it to electricity and even a simple mirror array can be devastatingly pwerful - like a 4x4 one with1" squares can valorize a can of coke in 7 seconds. Apparantly on cloudy days they still focus quite a bit of energy. I'm not sure it's prudent to write it off quite yet. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 8/13/2007 7:31:52 PM | Heres a new entry(well at least new to me). This was on my homepage news today. Now this is more like it...a fairly practical EV at a fairly reasonable price. Seems like a good start. Its not tiny either - looks about the size of a Chevy Cavalier
An electric car for the common man
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If all goes according to plan, by 2009 you could be sticking it to Big Oil by driving an all electric, Chinese-made sedan for little more than the cost of a Camry.
Electric cars are nothing new. But until now they've either been very expensive to produce or, if not that, then small and relatively slow - little more than glorified golf carts.
Miles Rubin, with his $30,000 Miles XS 500, is hoping to change all that.
According to Rubin, Founder of Miles Automotive Group, the XS 500 has a top speed of 80 miles per hour and a range of 120 miles at 60 miles per hour. That's about as fast as GM's late-90s era electric car, the EV 1. And the XS 500 will be a lot cheaper to produce, the company says.
Both the low cost and the high range can be attributed to China, where low labor costs keep the price down and state-sponsored research into battery technology yielded what Rubin said was an advanced lithium ion power pack produced by Lishen Battery.
Plug the car into a normal wall socket and, according to company literature, six hours later you've got a full charge.
While this sounds like the perfect vehicle, serious challenges remain.
The first, of course, will be bringing the car to market. Rubin said he'll have 6 prototypes of the XS 500 by the fall, but they still need tinkering to get safety approval from U.S. regulators, plus do additional battery testing.
Then there's the competition. Phoenix Motors has a four-door utility truck with similar performance capabilities that it's planning on selling to the public around the same time. And Tesla Motors, makers of the $100,000 all-electric Tesla Roadster which is expected to enter limited production by the end of the year, has plans to enter the sedan market next. (An e-mail to the company seeking comment was not returned. For more on Tesla's sedan plans, as well the recent departure of that company's CEO read the Green Wombat blog.)
The big automakers are also getting in on the electric game with their plug-in hybrids - vehicles that use an electric motor all the time but can recharge with both a plug and a conventional gasoline engine, giving them far greater range.
General Motors, the only big automaker to announce anything like a target date, said Thursday mass production of its Volt plug-in should begin by 2010.
Selling the car is another obvious challenge. Ford, GM, Toyota and Honda all had electric vehicles back in the late 1990s. They were sold in California at a time when state regulations basically required car makers to do so. All of them halted production after those regulations were changed.
"But the world has changed," said Rubin. "We need to get off our reliance on oil and we need to alter our carbon footprint."
Rubin has previously worked as a corporate lawyer and, later, headed several companies, including a company that sold metal forms to Detroit automakers. He most recently headed Polo/Ralph Lauren Jeans.
Even if U.S. consumers flock to electric cars out of environmental concern, Rubin may still have to convince them to put their bodies inside a Chinese vehicle, especially in light of all the news lately of recalled Chinese goods.
To ensure quality, he says there are inspectors in both Chinese factories that will produce the car. He also touts the car's safety features including as reinforced doors and both front and side airbags.
"The cars will speak for themselves. You can PR it to death, but if it doesn't perform well, it's dead on arrival," he said.
Rubin will also have to answer skeptics who wonder how an electric vehicle is actually better for the environment, given that the electricity to run the car is produced largely from coal and the nation's electric grid is strained as is.
Rubin retorts that the electric grid is plenty capable of handling demand from electric vehicles, provided people recharge them at night.
On the environmental question, he says just because electricity now is mostly made from coal and natural gas, renewables like solar or wind or carbon-free nuclear power could play a larger part of meeting the nation's electricity demand.
Environmentalists also support the development of electric cars, noting that it's much more efficient to create electricity than it is to power a vehicle with a combustion engine. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 4/20/2008 9:29:40 PM | I believe that hydrogen was the carrot on a stick to lead us away from EV's and we shall never taste it.
As for EV's they are not just here, they have been here all along.
This guy did a wonderful job at documenting his work http://www.electric-echo.com
More information can be found here http://www.evconvert.com/resources
And some are coming....hopefully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1p2FPRZRLI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3dgV-Uv8A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcHOrr-X4xM
http://www.smart.com/-snm-0157694444-1157920986-0000005617-0000006356-1160151955-enm-is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/mpc-uk-content-Site/en_UK/-/GBP/SVCPresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite%3a%2f%2fmpc-uk-Site%2fmpc-uk%2ecom%2fRootFolder%2fsmart%2fsmartEV%2fEVPandR%2epage
I am looking into converting my own car and will be sure to have a web site up if and when I gather up the 15k to do it. -2006 Smart Fortwo 22k -EV conversion kit approximately 10k -Batteries an extra 3k to 15k depending on needed range. -Solar charging station about 1.5k Telling Big Oil to go f@$K them selves....Priceless :P
The sad thing is, that if I were to buy 15k of fuel at $1.50/L I could drive my car the way I do now for for the next 13 years . Granted I would not have to pay $195 every 8k for oil changes. And not have to worry about costly maintenance on my diesel when it breaks. No ICE will last 13 years with out a major failure. But the batteries only last from 5 to 10 years.
This will take a lot of thinking, but as far as I can tell, fuel is only going up and electricity can be made from wind, and solar with stuff I can buy off the shelf from Canadian Tire :D | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 4/21/2008 11:01:05 AM |
the problem with electric cars is that they are not infact "zero emmissions" vehicles, and never will be while coal fired energy sources are still over-used. Bingo.
Why can't an electric car be designed with a small gasoline powered electric generator which constantly keeps the battery recharged ? Bingo again. I've heard that this idea has already been explored. Why it hasn't come to fruition, I can only speculate.
I don't know if anyone has brought this point up yet, but I saw a documentary on electric vehicles, and it seemed to conclude that electric cars would put way too many mechanics and garages out of business. | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 4/21/2008 11:21:11 AM | | This is really pretty simple. Once we've depleted/purchased ALL the available oil,the oil companies and car manufacturers are suddenly going to become incredibly ecologically conscious. Then it will be our lucky day, when these companies "save" us, at as much as they can gouge per person for "new" technology. Needless to say, We the Sheeple won't see this coming... | |
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| Electric cars Posted: 4/21/2008 10:40:21 PM | until we obtain most or all of our energy from ocean waves, solar (there is a new thin-layer solar technology being developed), wind power (I believe is impractical...physical movement and cost involved), and nuclear which by the way is not as scary as the uninformed public thinks (all your bananas are radioactive, so enjoy eating!), ELECTRIC CARS USE MORE FUEL!
There is never a 100% efficiency in the transfer of one energy form into another as there'll be a loss, invariably.
I once talked with a hippie chick at a laundromat in San Francisco in 2000 and she was telling me about how electric cars are so great. She was so brain-washed like so many kids are from having dummy overpaid teachers. The only good thing about electric cars being used now is that the pollution can be generated outside of metropolitan areas to provide for cleaner area where greater numbers of humans are. All the while there will be pollution formed elsewhere. Some people cannot think past the surface and it's sad. | |
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