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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:30:56 PM |
There is never a 100% efficiency in the transfer of one energy form into another as there'll be a loss, invariably
The only good thing about electric cars being used now is that the pollution can be generated outside of metropolitan areas to provide for cleaner area where greater numbers of humans are. All the while there will be pollution formed elsewhere. Some people cannot think past the surface and it's sad.
Thinking past the surface you believe an electric vehicle is less efficient than a 300 hp gas burner idling at the Drive-thru????
Only about 15% of the energy from the fuel you put in your tank gets used to move your car down the road or run useful accessories, such as air conditioning. The rest of the energy is lost to engine and driveline inefficiencies and idling.
Electric vehicles (EVs) are propelled by an electric motor (or motors) powered by rechargeable battery packs.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/atv.shtml
I heard a Ford Radio Ad from 1950 they advertised 21 MPG....
That was almost 60 years ago......
There are some smaller companies hitting the US market Very soon...
www.thinkev.com/think/content/view/full/269
Think is going to build cars in LA They are already crash tested and no emissions to certify.
http://www.milesev.com/index.asp#hsv.swf
XS500 Is going to be built in China... | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:10:34 PM | Just discovered this thread. I'm the owner/founder/moderator of the Yahoo group "Cabin Scooters," a discussion group concerned with the development of efficient commuter vehicles; specifically enclosed, all-weather, 3-wheel, 1- or 2-seat vehicles that occupy the niche between 2-wheel and 4-wheel vehicles. We think that a 100 mpg commuter vehicle is an attainable goal now (it's been done already with street-legal experimental, prototype, and one-off vehicles), and that a 1o0 mpg, 4-passenger car is possible in the very near future (this goal is being approached, today, with modified Geo Metros and Fireflys).
There was some discussion about diesels, and their role in pollution; being a former OTR trucker, I think some relevant facts were ignored:
Take the example of a diesel truck carrying a load on a 1,000 mile trip- let's say, 40,000 lbs, and compare it with a light, efficient car, carrying 4 people and luggage- say, 800 lbs.
My old 1985 Freightliner got 6.5 mpg, and let's say the car gets- let's be generous, 50 mpg.
1,000 miles, divided by 6.5 = 168.3 gallons of #2 diesel.
1,000 miles divided by 50 = 20 gallons of unleaded.
Here is where it gets interesting:
40,000 lbs divided by 168.3 = 237.7 lbs of cargo delivered per gallon of fuel
800 lbs divided by 20 = 40 lbs of people and luggage delivered per gallon of unleaded...
a car would have to get almost 300 mpg to be as efficient as my (1985!!!!) Freightliner...
Delivering freight with Priuses (Priuii?) would be prohibitively expensive in terms of fuel economy, and far more polluting (it would take a fleet of 50 or more Priuii [Priuses?] to carry the load of one diesel tractor-trailer).
Diesel trucks are plenty efficient now, and, per the amount of cargo moved, far less polluting than cars; the logical, rational, sane approach is to improve the efficiency of the private motor vehicle to levels that approach that of diesel trucks. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:42:04 PM | Oh, yeah, regarding electric cars:
I've done some reading about wireless energy transfer; it's done already in industrial settings. The idea is to transfer energy wirelessly several feet with little transmission loss. This is a fairly exciting development to me; if this could be developed to the point of being installed in major highways, electric car development- specifically, battery development- could be "frozen" in place now. Common lead-acid batteries could serve in many applications.
This would involve a wireless "power strip" installed in (for example) the "diamond"or "HOV" lanes in urban settings, and the "slow" lane on major highways. Pure electric battery powered cars would be driven from home on battery power, then would tap into the "power strip" on major city streets, which would provide propulsion power and recharge the onboard battery pack. I think the biggest obstacle isn't technical, but economic and political- how would the driver pay for the power he used? | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:26:05 PM | Take the example of a diesel truck carrying a load on a 1,000 mile trip- let's say, 40,000 lbs, and compare it with a light, efficient car, carrying 4 people and luggage- say, 800 lbs.
My old 1985 Freightliner got 6.5 mpg, and let's say the car gets- let's be generous, 50 mpg.
1,000 miles, divided by 6.5 = 168.3 gallons of #2 diesel.
1,000 miles divided by 50 = 20 gallons of unleaded.
Here is where it gets interesting:
40,000 lbs divided by 168.3 = 237.7 lbs of cargo delivered per gallon of fuel
800 lbs divided by 20 = 40 lbs of people and luggage delivered per gallon of unleaded...
a car would have to get almost 300 mpg to be as efficient as my (1985!!!!) Freightliner...
I have already changed my Car to LPG Propane, My Friend imports the conversion kits from Poland / Italy / & Germany. he supplies many of the LPG ( propane) Converters in West Sussex England. My car now converted to run on LPG. It’s Zero Carbon, not that I believe all that rubbish about global warming. www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=CZ434669U&news_headline=global_warming_is_lies_claims_documentary
The reason I have converted, is instead of getting 46 MPG on petrol I now get 115 MPG ( best 136MPG ) equal to a gallon of petrol in England. Just buying another kit for it to advance the ignition to get another 10% problem solve,,, for the time being!
With Oil reaching today (23-4-8) $120 per barrel. We are told our fuel prices are set to rocket from already staggering price of £1.23 per litre (In England) or $11.23 gall NOW. Our blessings are surely being taken away. But there are no carbon emissions. Batteries you have a lot, just think of the disposal of them every three years, just for one.
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:54:36 PM | I read the first page and last page of posts so for give me if someone already said it was the skin of the Hydenburg that was so flammable and caused that disaster not the hydrogen. Actually gasoline vapors are far more flamable and dangerous than hydrogen according to the experts.
I worked for a machine shop that made several prototype hydrogen purification components for the Ballard fuel cell. They are so difficult to machine that it currently is not feasible to manufacture them in the volumes needed to mass produce that system for consumer vehicles.
I also know several people who worked at Ballard who said even the fuel cells can't be manufactured to a high enough quality consistently to be mass produced.
The EV1 was an experimental program. I saw one at one of The Greater Vancouver Mustang Club shows years ago. It was a really cool car. When the leases were over GM took all those cars back and crushed them because there was no ongoing parts or service support program for them. GM's new Volt prototype is based on EV1 technology as are GM's hybrids.
I think electric cars are far more likely in the near future than hybrids but the battery technology really needs to improve. Electric cars and hybrids aren't quite as clean as everyone thinks. Everybody forgets about the toxic solid waste they produce when the batteries required to run them are spent and need to be replaced. The dead batteries can't be recycled and they are loaded with nasty chemicals.
Lithiumion batteries are a step in the right direction but they can be quite nasty to deal with. They are much more tempermental than Nimh batteries. In the radio control hobby world lithium batteries have had a reputation for catching fire while charging and in use. That is improving with better chargers and batteries but they can still be somewhat sketchy compared to Nimh batteries.
For the near future the solution is going to be better mass transit systems, ours in Greater Vancouver is so pathetic people can't rely on it to get to work on time consistently, and improved efficiency and lower emiossions gas and diesel engines.
One example is built in Maple Ridge, BC Canada by Fuel Vapor Technologies. They built a 3 wheel sports car using a Honda Civic engine that gets 90 mpg and can accelerate to 60 mph as fast as a Dodge Viper and is electronicaly limited to 140 mph.
The bigger benefit is that the fuel vapor system drastically reduces CO2 emissions withot a catalytic converter.
Check it out at www.fuelvaporcar.com if you are interested. They were the first official contestants in the X-Prize competition for building a car that can get over 100 mpg, be mass produced and sold at a reasonable price for the average driver and be fun to drive.
Another plus to the FVT technology is it can be retofitted to any gas engine in any car, boat, motorcycle, lawn mower, airplane... well you get the idea. I'm all for seeing more electric cars on the road but its going to be awhile yet.
Oh an plugging in cars isn't such a problem every where. In places like Saskatchewan and Edmonton Alberta shopping malls and other big parking lots have plugs to plug in block heaters and battery blankets... you need those when its minus 70 degrees outside in the winter.
AC | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:43:05 AM | In the radio control hobby world lithium batteries have had a reputation for catching fire while charging and in use. That is improving with better chargers and batteries but they can still be somewhat sketchy compared to Nimh batteries.
I was into R/C planes for a bit in my youth and when the Lithium's hit I heard many stories about them. But the main reason they were blowing up was they were either damaged after a crash, or they were being charged too quickly. One really needs to be carful about how much you draw from a lithium battery, it will damage it if you discharge it too fast, and the same goes if you charge it too fast. *EV cars have limits and special chargers in place to prevent this*
Everyone is complaining about how the electric car will never work until you can refuel it on the spot and it will get 400-500km on a charge.
Wake up! This is not for everyone! And people are already converting there cars on there own and they are happy as hell they did.
http://www.evconvert.com/resources
That is a very informative website, and I love reading the "Personal Pages" *not what you think*
There are a hell of a lot of us that only live with in 50km of work, don't have any kids, and only do about 110km of driving in one day. I have a motorcycle for road trips if I want to go visit friends out of town, but as I have been looking into converting my car to an EV, I have found that I only go about 20 to 40km a day with my car.
I see this would be perfect for me, and I would only have to charge it at home.
If you need a hummer, get one, If you need a minivan, get one, if you need an EV get one...oh wait we have to build it ourselves! Every one has different needs and will have different options to suit them. We the people want, nay NEED, the EV option. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/23/2008 1:29:25 PM | An electric commuter vehicle, similar in concept to the former Corbin Sparrow (now Meyers NMG) would work great for commuting, during the week, then on weekends I could still use my minivan for grocery shopping, etc.
If GM could crank them out for under $9,000 a copy, I'd run out and get one tomorrow.
The Volt will probably cost around $40,000-$50,000. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/23/2008 7:41:58 PM | Beaugrand,
9000 apiece? My bet is it'll be closer to 9000 a wheel,steering wheel and spare included,amigo. The oil barons and car companies,IMO, will NOT go quietly into this good night. You have to know deep down the big players here already have plans in place to "save us", make a fortune, and come out smelling like a rose. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:50:10 PM | $9,000 apiece is the point at which demand is projected to stimulate enough sales to make large-scale production (more than 1500 units annually) economical.
Keep in mind, the design philosophy isn't to incorporate every bit of automobile luxury, but to design them with "just enough."
These aren't luxury SUVs, they're enclosed, all-weather motor scooters. Curb weight (empty weight) 600-900 lbs, GVWR 1200 lbs or less, licensed, registered, and insured as motorcycles.
GM can't do anything like this: they need a margin of $5,000 per unit, minimum, and a volume of 40,000 units per year. For domestic manufactured vehicles that means a retail price over $20,000. Notice that the GM models priced under $20,000 are all made offshore.
Smaller companies need fewer units sold, and a slightly smaller minimum margin.
But the companies to compare to aren't the automobile giants, with their staggering overhead, but the motor scooter, dunebuggy and ATV companies, and they make comparable products (equivalent parts, materials, and labor costs) for about the same target retail price.
And the anticipated competition isn't "miserized" SUVs or hybrid cars, it's the 5-10-year old Buick (or other second-hand car). | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/23/2008 11:15:11 PM | | You're absolutely right, and it makes perfect sense. Doesn't it strike you as being just too neat and simple? I get the inescapable feeling that it's all factored in, and one way or another the big guys will get theirs. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/24/2008 12:02:11 AM | Being in the power generation field, I can tell you right now that electric cars are NOT the answer for several reasons.
"Just plug it in and charge it"...do you think electricity comes out of thin air? The electrical grid is already over taxed. Tree huggers are preventing the construction of new generating plants, and also making it very difficult to keep the older ones running. You think your electricity is high now...wait when the grid goes down. Not only will you be without a warm dinner, but you'll be late for work because your car is dead too.
If you want gas prices to come down, then tell the tree huggers to get lost. Petrolium refineries have not been constructed since the 1970's because of their flawed beliefs and fuzzy science. Example: You can't kill someone on death row that has murdered someone because that is "cruel and unusual punishment", but it is "ok" for a pre-teen girl to have an abortion without their parents knowledge.
The price of socializum begins with your wallet, and ends with your freedom. When was the last time you heard anybody talk about "sensible" regulation.....you haven't..... and probibly won't either.....
Just my opinion..... | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/24/2008 7:10:14 AM | Not quite sure how the death penalty and teen abortion have anything whatsoever to do with electric cars. I'm fairly certain that a fair proportion of electric car proponents endorse the death penalty and oppose teen abortions (being moderator of a group that discusses electric vehicles regularly, I can simply ask the members in a poll; knowing the membership as I do, I'm confident this is the case).
As far as charging, the kinds of battery chargers we used at my last job (for our electric forklifts) had a timer that could delay charging for several hours, until "off-peak" hours. This meant the chargers usually were set to charge between 8:00 PM and 4:00 AM, when demand was lowest.
Certainly we're going to need new power plants, and some of them will have to be nuclear. It would help if the nuclear industry had a standardized design; my understanding is that American reactors are all unique for each facility, with unique, site-specific rules for operation and safety. Standardized designs would lower costs and streamline the certification process, and help overcome environmental objections to new construction. Unfortunately, many if not most nuclear power advocates that I've encountered are extremely, rabidly ANTI- environment, anti-conservation, and, apparently, pro-pollution.
Also, apparently, anti electric car. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/24/2008 8:26:20 AM |
I get the inescapable feeling that it's all factored in, and one way or another the big guys will get theirs.
Certainly, and this comes up in discussions all the time. Given a well-thought-out business plan, a factory willing to build product, and reliable financial backing, it's a very doable thing. However, at the first sign of success, competition will likely appear, coming from other companies; I suspect from companies that make motor scooters, motorcycles, dunebuggies and ATVs, even smaller car manufacturers.
One strategy is to make a smaller number, sell them for a much higher price, and hope to attract a sufficient number of "early adopters" to recover development costs and make a quick profit (IMHO that's the Aptera plan).
The business models I'm looking at involve making relatively large numbers, thus lowering per-unit cost, and selling them at more reasonable prices (competitive with that 5 to 10 year old Buick). | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/24/2008 12:26:34 PM | B/G,
I think the crux of our disagreement is that you're making a cost-analysis based on a car model for which there may very well be no more fuel when this all comes about. You see this as a casual,gradual conversion. What happens if they stop selling gas altogether prematurely? Just because they have it doesn't mean they absolutely MUST vend it. If that Buick is no longer viable transportation, it changes the entire supply/demand scenario,and demand skyrockets for the "savior's" products. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:21:45 PM |
If that Buick is no longer viable transportation, it changes the entire supply/demand scenario,and demand skyrockets for the "savior's" products.
Until OPEC opens the value and kills investment.... TED.com had a great clip about this. A base price must be established. Otherwise the Monopolies will kill it.
The old 200 mpg carb. Why would you pay $100 to use less when gas is $.17 a gallon. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/24/2008 7:30:08 PM | I don't actually see this as a 'casual, gradual conversion," but a logical transition that should have begun 60 years ago (and was predicted by Harley Earl, the visionary designer responsible for GM's success).
The concepts I have in mind include both ICE and electric power, examples of which have already been designed, built, and sold (Messerschmitt "Karos," the KR175 and KR200, using ICE, and the Corbin Sparrow/NMG, using electricity). It isn't really new, radical thinking.
The eventual goal is a 300 mpg (or mpg-e) single-seat commuter vehicle that can travel at freeway speeds and have a respectable range- say, 250 miles.
Multinational petroleum companies make money by selling product. If they don't sell it, they don't make money. Nobody is going to pay them NOT to produce.
The end will come gradually, as it already has begun. Fuel prices will rise, ever more rapidly, costs for basic staples will rise in unison; the scary part is, some Bubbas out there will still be willing to pay $30 per gallon to drive their 10 mpg 4wd pickup trucks.
I really don't think oil production will halt abruptly, it's just going to get a lot more expensive, and a lot faster over time. There are also alternatives to petroleum, like coal liquification, methanol/ethanol/propanol, vegetable oil (for diesels), and other alternatives under development.
The technology is here, now, for a sensible, 100 mpg commuter vehicle, and a 300 mpg (or mpg-e) vehicle is possible. What's lacking is political and economic leadership to make use of them. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/24/2008 10:11:46 PM | I heard today that money men feel the oil price now is about $50 per Barrel Speculation. That allows too much margin for much change.
Lowering the Speed limit and higher fuel standards, could drop demand big time.
Maybe we could ask The Mini-Three to give US autos the same standard as China....
I like the CNG with overnight home fueling idea.
Next step blend Hydrogen and Natural gas. In fact A Benz Prototype internal combustion produce a reduction in CO2.
Then a 6 cycle engine, much higher mileage.
Too many options yet to come. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/24/2008 10:46:58 PM |
Lowering the Speed limit and higher fuel standards, could drop demand big time.
I like the CNG with overnight home fueling idea.
CNG home refueling is a viable option. Gas engines can easily be converted from gas to CNG and back, conversions have been around for decades. The trick is compressing the gas delivered to your home by the gas company without blowing up your house in the process- still, technically feasible.
Another idea is to impose a lower speed limit on heavy vehicles- say, a 55 mph speed limit on vehicles with GVWR over 4,000 lbs. Owners of fuel-efficient vehicles could apply for "green" plates that allow a higher speed limit. Those who feel they must have gas-guzzlers can drive them, but slower. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:14:02 PM | So much misinformation, so little time.
The total end-to-end carbon dioxide production of a coal-fired electric car is half that of the same gasoline-powered car. Coal-fired powerplants typically operate at higher temperatures and in steady-state mode, which enables them to achieve 35% thermal efficiency. A typical automobile engine's average thermal efficiency is 7%.
NOx, SOx, particulates (soot) and CO emissions will vary with the age of the powerplant.
As of model year 2007, Diesel engines are regulated to emission standards almost as clean as those for gas engines, and as of model year 2010 - seventeen months from now - the emission standards will be almost indistinguishable - including particulates. As older Diesel engines wear out and are retired, it will become a non-issue.
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/
Diesel fuel now limited to 15 parts per million sulfur and has been for about two years in the US, more in Canada. It's nearly as clean as clear kerosene now.
Any fuel which contains enough energy to move a vehicle is a potential danger is if spills. Engineers know that and design fuel tanks accordingly. On benefit of hydrogen is that when it does leak, it dissipates quite rapidly, unlike propane and liquid fuels which pool on the ground when spilled.
Electric heavy freight movers? It's not a pipe dream. Here's one example, with more than 4,000 horsepower:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_GG1
Available in passenger versions, too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus
Any way you slice it, ethanol (also known as ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol) has less energy than gasoline. Either by volume or by mass.
E85 is 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline.
That ratio was chose because the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms defines any blend that's 86% ethanol, or more, as beverage alcohol. It must be denatured with 15% gasoline to be considered industrial alcohol.
There isn't one single way "hybrid" vehicles operate. There are numerous different strategies.
"Mild Hybrids" might only replace the accessory drive with electric motors, shut off the engine when stopped and omit the capability of moving the vehicle with electric power.
Other systems blend electric and internal-combustion power to move the vehicle. The biggest benefit to this is the ability to achieve the same acceleration with a smaller engine running more efficiently.
The ultimate extension of that concept is the design used in the Green Goat ( http://railpower.com/products_gg_howitworks.html ) which uses a 200-horsepower Diesel engine, a 100,000-pound battery pack and 2,000 horsepower electric traction motors. There is no mechanical connection between engine and wheels at all; it's 100% electric.
Electricity can't be extracted from "the vacuum of space". It can be transmitted through the vacuum of space wirelessly. The downside is that it creates a large electromagnetic field, which is probably harmful to living things.
The Hummer vs. Prius story is complete and utter ... um, bovine biosolids and has been debunked numerous times. But, as Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels, Adolph Hitler's Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda proved, you can get people to believe almost any lie if it's repeated often enough, and it's easier to get people to believe a big lie than a small one.
From one of the many rebuttals circulating:
"The information on Inco is just plain outdated and wrong. Yes, Inco did a lot of probably irreparable damage to the area around Sudbury, Ontario over the many decades, and I will not defend them. The 1,247 foot tall Inco superstack definitely spread acid rain far and wide over eastern Canada for nearly two decades. However a major pollution control program was put in place in the late 1980s and since 1994, the stack has emitted almost nothing but water vapor. Most of the Ontario lakes that were damaged by acid rain in the 1970s and 1980s have since recovered and are now doing well."
http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_vs_prius.pdf
http://www.toyota.com/toyotalife/hybrid/article/hummer.html
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Green_Car_News/Prius_Versus_HUMMER_Exploding_the_Myth.S196.A12220.html
Batteries do fare poorly in high and low temperature extremes. That's why many carmakers are developing insulated battery boxes with active thermal management. Gasoline engines don't run well or long without active thermal management, either. Without a constant supply of cooled antifreeze circulating, their life expectancy is measured in minutes. It's neither a new problem nor an unsurmountable one. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 8/3/2008 3:44:43 AM | Luckily for those of us who enjoy the fact of having an electric car, some companies are following suit and hope to start sales beginning in 2010.
Smart, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Volvo and even GM are all looking into production of BEV's or hybrids.
I have my eye on Mitsubishi at the moment, but I still wonder what's going to happen when Chevrons patents for the NiMH batteries run out? Maybe Panasonic can start making them in EV car size again without getting sued and Toyota can get there Rav 4-EV back into production.
My next vehicle is going to be fully electric, and it's going to be charged by clean hydro, and as soon as I get my own house it's going solar.
Check out Youtube and search for electric cars. You can find so many nice clips there... if you can sort out the mess. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 8/3/2008 3:38:18 PM | the technology is here and now to provide an alternative energy vehicle that will be a true alternative to a gasoline fueled vehicle.
an electric vehicle that is charged at home and at work as well as having top up photovoltaics as well as using the the recouped energy from braking will increase a vehicles range well enough for a city commuter car. For trucks and long range vehicles a diesel alternator to create the electricity is a far more fuel efficient choice.
hydrogen is by far the most sensible choice but the technology and infrastructure is a long way from making this a practical reality.
but back to electric vehicles - to be viable they need a 150 mile range and cruising speed of 80MPH until then they will be seen as a cute idea that doesnt quite work. | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:09:41 PM |
hydrogen is by far the most sensible choice but the technology and infrastructure is a long way from making this a practical reality.
but back to electric vehicles - to be viable they need a 150 mile range and cruising speed of 80MPH
Electric with development can meet all the requirements.... It is close now.
It is also the best source to power the car.......
you can generate electricity with many fuels......
the grid exists now ....
we have a surplus now with off peak times.... | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:28:08 PM | | not to replyt anyone specifically, but I've worked for Chevrolet for years, and e85 gasoline works, but expect 25 - 50% lower mpg! engines are not designed for the lower temperatures e85 burns at. Corn is not a viable source of fuel, at a barrels/acre ratio of 15. Turning farmland to corn for fuel has just made wheat jump massively i price. VW pans for a plug in car by 2014, and with home use solar panels, an electric car should not increase coal or nuclear uesage by much | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:53:41 PM | Everybody is looking at today's driving patterns as a benchmark. Cars in the future have to do what they do today otherwise we do not want them. Not to be a spoilsport but who says we are going to get what we want? Driving may become more of a luxury as it once was and we may have to modify society to adapt.
We may have to have lighter vehicles which would make any technology more feasible. To keep things safe we may have to have goods transported away from commuter traffic. With China and India getting to our level the world can not sustain our current ways. Fifty years from now they may look back and say 'Boy those were wild times.' | |
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| Electric cars
Posted: 8/3/2008 5:11:15 PM | Not quite an electric car, but a couple of interesting electric vehicles have hit the market: electric maxiscooters.
The Vectrix, at $12,000, has a top speed of 60 mph, and about a 65 mile range (at 25 mph).
The X-Treme XM 3500 doesn't go quite as fast (55 mph) but just as far (maybe 75 miles) and doesn't cost as much, at $4,500.
Expect those numbers, especially top speed, to go up. Both are top-speed-regulated to stretch the range.
The XM 3500 uses 19 3.2V lithium-iron-phosphate cells, each costing $100. It also uses an electric hubmotor; put four of those together with 76 3.2V Li-Fe-PO3 cells and you could have a sweet little electric car, something the size of a Kia Rio (or make it a 2-seater about the size of an AH "Bugeye" Sprite for more speed or range), 65 mph, 70 mile range (at city speeds), probably just under $20,000. | |
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