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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/3/2007 3:29:08 PM | Please realize that the failing airlines are almost all feather-bedded unionized companies. Non-Union airlines are beating them up badly.
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Blame the Union........Get real.
The unions sucked up to save the company. Its the union..............
Ronnie open border helped kill unions............30%then ...today less that 10%
GOP smaller Gov......JAJAJA HAHA my butt...
they only want the money to be contracted out.
You Like Jeff public education Jeff........ | |
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grog27
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Joined: 2/25/2005
Msg: 27 | |
| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/3/2007 6:56:01 PM | "To fear liberals or conservatives, is to fear ourselfs.
True...very true. And that is what our enemies want. Divide and conquer is their plan. It's up to us to hopefully somehow understand that motive and disfuse it."
Unfortunately, the plan has been working all too well the past few years, hasn't it?
As for who fears whom, isn't it interesting that those who most seem to fear Muslim extremists are those so-called "Christian" fundamentalists. Pots and kettles everywhere! | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/3/2007 9:55:13 PM | | Consveratives may annoy me with moralistc biblical thinking, but at least there realist to know that regulation kills business, kill comsumers. The liberal nowdays is nannie state nazi, and most people in the west are seeing what they are about its not about the welfare state its about the "nannie state", and the voters will start to vote them out in time. Liberals try to regulate happy meals, to garden hoses they will lose elections in western world over time. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/3/2007 10:17:06 PM | Consveratives may annoy me with moralistc biblical thinking, but at least there realist to know that regulation kills business, kill comsumers. The liberal nowdays is nannie state nazi, and most people in the west are seeing what they are about its not about the welfare state its about the "nannie state", and the voters will start to vote them out in time. Liberals try to regulate happy meals, to garden hoses they will lose elections in western world over time.
Funny, I always thought it was the other way around. It seems that the conservatives rally around via the religious institutions like in much of the middle east...those people are as conservative as one can get. On the other hand liberal's are free from being
shackled by religion or otherwise; LIBERAL's definition is contrary to
how you define it...I'm thinking you might not actually know what a liberal stands
for so here's a definition:
lib·er·al(lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
1.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
If you need further proof, check out the study by Brinkley on the definition
of a conservative......it is pro-authoritarian. Your average grass root conservative
does not thrive in ambiguity and looks to gov't to structure their lives and law, order
and religious authority.
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/3/2007 10:30:26 PM | OK.. Here's my take.
Gizmo hits it on the head.
Also Grog.. in the part re' Fundamentalist Conservative Christians are the ones most afraid of radical Islamic terrorists. Rather than it being a case of pot/kettle.. it is a case of truly knowing thy enemy. To those who don't comprehend the truly basic age old battle which is at the basis, one's head will be in the sand and that is exactly (unfortunately) where many Liberals are.
The Conservatives take a hard line approach which is necessary to combat the terrorists. Nothing short of that will work. This is not the enemy of previous WWars. This one dates back to the Old Testament roadmap.
I wouldn't be surprised if the terrrorists want a Democratic Congress majority and President in the USA. It would surely assist them in their agenda...simply due to the belief systems which divide the Conservatives and Liberals in the Western World. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/3/2007 10:32:41 PM | Conservatives stealling elections is unlikly, if true they would still control both houses in congress. Accusations like these help spread fear and keep the west divided, while our enemies unite with there enemies to destroy the western world.
As for who fears whom, isn't it interesting that those who most seem to fear Muslim extremists are those so-called "Christian" fundamentalists. Pots and kettles everywhere!
There are quite a few liberals who are christian, and I know some conservatives who are pegan. So anywone defining them by some stereotypical faith is unfair.
Now as far as the mulim world goes, they respect what so called" Muslim extremists"did, or blame 911 on the Jews. Many in both parties see the threat, but the ones one the left will have a harder time proving it to their base.
All of Islam is againts everything America is, because America is everything they hate and fear. In their world there is no freedom of religion, because there is no speration of church and state. They look down on woman, so its ok to abuse them. Their wold is based on a theocracy where Allah dictates over the population, or so they say.
In America "We the people" choose representatives who speak for us, thus including our citizens in governing processes. This is just unexeptable to the Mulim world. Our view of freedom is way diiferent than theirs. That whay the war in Iraq will fail.
Its not fear mongering for our public servants to inform us of the dangers to our security, whether it be from global warming or nulcear terrorism. | |
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grog27
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Joined: 2/25/2005
Msg: 32 | |
| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/3/2007 11:35:28 PM | "To those who don't comprehend the truly basic age old battle which is at the basis, one's head will be in the sand and that is exactly (unfortunately) where many Liberals are. "
It's one thing to 'comprehend' said battle and quite another to go in with guns blazing and a "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" mentality which is, unfortunately, the path the current regime has chosen.
"The Conservatives take a hard line approach which is necessary to combat the terrorists. "
Which has, so far, worked about as well as throwing water on a grease fire.
"I wouldn't be surprised if the terrrorists want a Democratic Congress majority and President in the USA. It would surely assist them in their agenda...simply due to the belief systems which divide the Conservatives and Liberals in the Western World."
Yes, that would be so much better for them, unlike the current conditions, with everybody in the West , particularly in the U.S., just one big, happy family. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/3/2007 11:49:54 PM |
"The Conservatives take a hard line approach which is necessary to combat the terrorists. "
I have to agree with Grog on this, the so called "hard approach" as you put
it is not the same as having an open minded and creative approach. It is
not possible, IMO, to have a conservative solve foreign problems. It is too
bogged down to obligations it has to Christian right-wing extremists who
feel entitled to favours. I think the conservatives should realize that it
owes no favours because certainly the liberals will never allow a religious
based government to raise its ugly head - so, what are they to do? | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 12:24:40 AM | First, let's review history.
All wars from the beginning of time have roots in 'religion'. It is the denial of this fact which will give our enemy the edge...especially in today's climate where those 'roots' are derived from the very beginning of time.
God/Higher Power...Whatever one wants to term it... if they believe any shred of the Bible/Ancient Writings/Other Recorded History...directs us to the laws of the land and men throughout history speak of 'wars and rumors of wars'. If we turn a deaf ear to what history, itself, has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt....then, we set ourselves up for failure.
It's true...yes... many Conservatives are religious fanatics (this does not mean 'church goers), but, rather they believe in a Creator, etc. The Islamic faith believes in a Creator. They are not atheist. Where we, the West, are divided is in our belief or non belief in God. The radical Islamic, not only believe in God, they are willing to wipe out what they see as 'infidels' at any cost - suicide bombers, etc. We, in the West, don't have that fanatical drive. This is why we must absolutely take as 'hard a line' stand as we possibly can in the parameters we are handicapped with.
Can you not see that the terrorists want more and more of the West to deny God, to become divided... it is their weapon. The best weapon they have. They know it. We best be realizing it and if Fundamental Christian Fanatatical Conservatives are becoming more and more to the forefront, this is why. Know thy enemy and it is the hope that more and more Liberals will see the truth. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 12:45:59 AM | The radical Islamic, not only believe in God, they are willing to wipe out what they see as 'infidels' at any cost - suicide bombers, etc. We, in the West, don't have that fanatical drive.
I'd beg to differ. It's been mentioned before and well documented that the far-right
christian extremists are growing in numbers just as the far right-Muslim extremists
have grown. The right-wingers of the Christian faith want to induce "Armageddon".
The liberals also believe in God but not of a society that forces religion down
one's throat.
My argument is this: Liberals don't want religion to rule their life...faith is born
from within and nobody can legislate it, but the conservatives are being exploited
because of the their innate need to be ruled and have their lives
predictable and clean and neat; Christian radicals promise to bring that to them
and the rest of us are suppose to go for that ride but we WON'T. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 1:05:15 AM | I'm not saying the radical Right Winger or Left Winger or the Islamic Radical is right or wrong.
What I am saying is that it exists...always has and always will... until.... 'that time' comes and ends it as we know it.
The Moderates are, in a sense, like the lukewarm which Jesus speaks of. Better to be hot or cold...that way what is truly right can take hold and overcome the evil. Again, I'm not stating what the 'evil' is. That is an individual choice/determination. But, to be 'Moderate'..to me, that is Lukewarm. Wishywashy. Not someone I want to have my back when the going gets rough.
We will have to make a choice and it literally will be a case of 'If you aren't with us, you're against us'. Who the 'us' is... well, that too will be an Individual determination...something I won't second guess at present and hopefully will know and not have to 'second guess' when it happens.
I do believe the wheels are turning faster and faster as we approach that 'time'. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 2:08:01 AM | The Moderates are, in a sense, like the lukewarm which Jesus speaks of.
What you mean to say is that we are infidels? See, this is what I'm talking about; it's
the HOT one's that are endangering our planet. We could be so much better when
we leave a perverted religion out of it but no, we need to be one of the extremes....so,
how's that going for this planet so far?
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 3:24:50 AM | | Actually from a libertarian point of view, more laws mean more costs for prison. It makes no sense for example to incarcerate people for marijuana when it should be legal. America has the least social freedoms of any western world nation. For a country that supposedly has seperation of church and state we do a crappy job. Religion , which does not pay a cent of tax , has wayyy too much influence in our legislature, not to mention in our foreign policy as well.... going to war with nations that believe differently. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 4:51:59 AM | It makes no sense for example to incarcerate people for marijuana when it should be legal.
I have to agree with you there, an unregulated industry is an uncontroled one. I also think prostitution should be legal too, yet regulated.
going to war with nations that believe differently.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Yes we have crazy right wing people, and we also have crazy left wingers too. America still is one of the most tolerant countries of the world.
In America it is illegal to discriminate against sexuall orientation, race or gender. We have freadom of speach; although not all speach is popular, its still protected. You can't say that about the parts of the world we're at war with. You would be killed or treated unfairly if your Gay (killed) speach (killed or imprisioned) woman (lower than a man).
Infact the Mideast with its "intolerance" is more like the super far right-wing of America than the left. The Hamas, Al qaeda and Hesbala all have direct roots to Hitler. If you don't belive that, you should know that the super right in America love the mideast, and share their hate for the Jews. I know David Duke has made antisemitic speaches in the mideast. I could get more into the far right wing connections, but I'll save it for another thread. Just Google the "knights party" if you don't believe me. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 7:11:04 AM | Well, if governments spread fear - it's normal for people to cling to the right more than the left. In this post 9/11 world , these same governments have learned this to be a great leveler in the playing field of elections. All you have to do is preach strength, show your opponent to be weak, and let out the occasional security alert to remind everyone who "Daddy" is. 
That's assuming you even believe both parties are actually puppets dancing to the same master, in some kind of three card monte that those hustlers on 8th Avenue in NYC would be proud of.
Is your party under this card ? Or that one ? Or......maybe it's not there at all......
Corporations and the aristocracy, especially in the USA, own the politicians to an extent the others can only dream of. It started in about 1980, and thirty years later, it's pretty hard to miss the results of their success. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 7:40:52 AM | quote] I'm thinking you might not actually know what a liberal stands
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
I don't know where you got this partial definition but if this shoe fits ya, who am I to argue. When I looked up liberal and liberalism on http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberal It had alot more interesting definitions and history.(I might even fit into some of those items myself)
The current breed of "liberals" don't seem to know what the definition is for there label and they don't live it either. (tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.)
(open to new ideas for progress) There are very few if any "new" ideas in progressive politics and social issues. (Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox,) Tell me what hasn't been tried somewhere or sometime.
The current liberals are forcing their "new ideas for progress" through government controls over private property and redistribution of wealth. That's socialism.
(or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.)
Well, if the attitude, view, or dogma has never been associated with Christianity, it might be free of bigotry from the current liberal.
The most frustratrating things about liberalism is the basic ideas they seem to have regarding history- in that, we are lucky to have survived, those who came before us were un-enlighted fools, and their mistakes must to be fixed now to save us all from ourselves. They tend to believe that when they relabeled old ideas as their new ideas that should be tried for the betterment of all. They disregard why these old ideas failed believing they know and can do better. They are the masters of "those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it". (same can be said for the current GOP)
The conservative view on history is one of respect for the foundations in place especially in regards to preserving personal freedoms and inspiring personal responsibility. The conservative will trust their government with responsibility of security, law, and order while keeping their own gun by their side as they know that government is capable of becoming the oppressor in any responsibility it is given. We are tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others up until the point it affects security, law, order, and encroachment of government controls over private property and redistribution of wealth. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 7:59:25 AM |
Corporations and the aristocracy, especially in the USA, own the politicians to an extent the others can only dream of. It started in about 1980, and thirty years later, it's pretty hard to miss the results of their success.
I'd say it has a longer history than that here, 200+ years perhaps. The power and authority is always with the politicians no matter what group "owns" them. I don't believe the majority opinion or any other special interest groups are any better at establishing and protecting personal freedoms, rights, or responsibilities. What is done with the power and authority is more important to me than who owns it. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 8:09:41 AM | IndKyPerson, you make some real good points. I already know Republicans arn't real conservatives, and I would also agree that Democrats arn't true liberals either.
The questions of the year is why do people still think they are, and how did we get duped in the first place?
We just got to start working together again without being all preachy, and things should fall back into place. We will never agree on everything, and thats what makes us great.
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SISL
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Joined: 2/20/2007
Msg: 45 | |
| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 8:17:36 AM | What a load of crap that is.
"Social Engineering" is at the heart of liberal thinking. They think GOVERNMENT is the solution. (the solution ALWAYS involves spending someone elses money) to all problems.
NO SO for conservatives, WE PAY our own way, and don't expect more than the minimum from government. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 8:25:12 AM | "NO SO for conservatives, WE PAY our own way, and don't expect more than the minimum from government."
Except for the corporate welfare, tax breaks for the rich, or the billions and billions of $$$ spent on the military for conservatives to use a tool to promote their business interests....
"Social Engineering" is at the heart of liberal thinking."
Maybe on the extreme left....but most liberals aren't interested such ridiculous concepts....much like most conservatives have no interest in legislating morality, which itself is a form of "social engineering", except for the extreme right.
I'll give you credit. You sure know your Republican rhetoric well. Very little of has any truth to it but you do know it well. You should go on Fox News.....they could use another shill for the right. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 11:11:10 AM | Someone said 'is this war on terror a holy war'. Sure is. Thing is, the Socialist part of North America doesn't want to acknowledge the facts. The Terrorists (always throughout history) has taken pains .... years upon years...to plan and execute attacks based on religious beliefs.
We (the West) are now the main targets. It has nothing to do with our Presidents/Leaders...which party they are. Once we fully comphrehend this, we might be able to better defend/offend against the terrorists. The only reason the terrorists would want a Democratic majority with a Democratic President is because they assume the socialist aspect of the party will take hold and we would attempt negotiations. Negotiations to them is fodder. Means nothing. It simply allows the enemy more time to assess and better attack.
As to 'Corporations' going only back to the 1980s. Some very well organized...large corporations come to mind. Mafia....Far East Trade Routes, inner circles in Kingdoms, etc. etc. going back hundred/thousand of years.
We have nothing new.
Some have said Canada is more liberal, diversified than the USA. Let's examine Geography ...again. What other Country on the face of the Earth is as easily accessible, accepted cultures integrated totally into their system....than the USA. This land is more habital to what Humans deem comfortable...climate, travel to and fro, etc. It makes logical sense that this Land, due to location and freedom of expression would be the choice...versus any other parcel of land anywhere.
This isn't putting any other Country down or saying that the USA is superior. It is simply laying out the reasons/facts why we are so easily immigrated to.
With all of the above escalating, it would be natural instinct for a lot of people here to swing back to the right simply out of the basic need to survive.
IMHO, the rhetoric on both sides isn't going to do any good. It is a 'religious' battle as the rest of the World has always known,....so too should we admit. | |
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| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/4/2007 1:40:18 PM | IMHO, the rhetoric on both sides isn't going to do any good. It is a 'religious' battle as the rest of the World has always known,....so too should we admit.
I agree, war is upon us whether we want it or not, regardless if we started it or not. The only question is do we have the will to win? Can we finish what we started? That I have mixed feelings about. Personaly, I think we need get our noses bloodied more before we get serious.... | |
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grog27
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Joined: 2/25/2005
Msg: 49 | |
| conservatives on rise in western wold..
Posted: 6/5/2007 3:31:22 AM | "Well, if governments spread fear - it's normal for people to cling to the right more than the left. In this post 9/11 world , these same governments have learned this to be a great leveler in the playing field of elections. All you have to do is preach strength, show your opponent to be weak, and let out the occasional security alert to remind everyone who "Daddy" is. "
No kidding! The majority of the last Bush campaign essentially centred around "Vote for us...or you'll die!!!"
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SISL
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Joined: 2/20/2007
Msg: 50 | |
| Cry all ya like, I'm right, and you are confused
Posted: 6/5/2007 4:51:01 AM | Your arguments are kinda empty. YES, it IS the job of the Federal Government to DEFEND THE COUNTRY, California does not have a Navy.
I am going away for a while, won't be posting my wisdom. Try to keep in cogent while I am gone.
(Secret, covert mission for the CIA of course) | |
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