| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/28/2008 2:19:43 PM | Here's the catch-22, OutMind:
I quantified the element of my post you quoted with the word "all" - see? "I disagree that all abusers have no idea that they are abusive".
Now, on this piece:
I've known men and women that were abusive and a lot of times they pretend to play the victim
Most of them were victims at some point in their respective lives - key word=were. So in a manner of speaking, it's technically not a pretense, but it isn't the whole truth either.
that it is the world that is doing something to them and they are only defending and protecting what they think is rightfully their.
This I agree with completely. That's where they stayed stuck - that sense of entitlement that is appropriate as a child yet not appropriate as an adult. However, as it's not that difficult to find someone to blame and thereby escape the consequences of their own abusive behavior choices, that is were far too many stay stuck.
However, IMO, it's not that they don't know that they behavior is abusive. It's very simple actually. They are out of control people. To feel in control, they have to bring someone else out of control. Every time they accomplish that, their abusive behavior is in effect reinforced via their reward of feeling in control. They don't self-regulate their behavior choices, dependent on someone else to control their behavior for them - such as in the parent/child relationship in the more general sense.
It's not so much that they don't cognitively know what they are doing, they have simply learned that manipulation will get them what they want. Manipulation implies intention and intention implies awareness. When they don't get what they want when they want it, they have a temper tantrum blowout comparable to what a child does when a child is not able to control him/her self. Sadly, these temper tantrum blowouts progress to the degree of physical assault over time and sometimes, even death of the victim or even the abuser.
JMHO
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/28/2008 2:37:34 PM |
It's not so much that they don't cognitively know what they are doing, they have simply learned that manipulation will get them what they want. Manipulation implies intention and intention implies awareness.
Awareness that it is them against those others that do them wrong. The "look what you made me do" syndrome. So even in those actions the blame is completely shifted. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/28/2008 3:32:55 PM |
Awareness that it is them against those others that do them wrong. The "look what you made me do" syndrome. So even in those actions the blame is completely shifted.
Not awareness, perception to support a pervasive state of denial. It's means to avoid personal responsibility for their own choices and being held accountable accordingly. Factor in also that they are reactive to life, not pro-active. That IS a choice - choice implies cognitive awareness to varying degrees.
They can defer blame until the cows come home, but it does NOT absolve them nor excuse them of accountability for their actions, even when they are successful in finding a partner who (also reactive to life) willingly buys into that hogwash. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/28/2008 3:43:35 PM | As someone who was married to an abusive man, I don't believe they do go into it with the intentions of abusing anyone. You have to remember, we are looking at this through the eyes of someone who isn't abusive (ourselves). But, put yourself into their head for a minute. We have someone who is going along and everything is fine, then something.... even the slightest little thing... touches that part in them that is uncontrollable. They lash out suddenly and I believe it's without forethought. Most of us take some time to feel anger. Some of us don't even let things anger us at all. But the abuser's rage doesn't build like a normal person's, it ignites suddenly and without warning.
I do think they look for women who are perhaps very laid back, aren't fighters, are more submissive or non-confrontational. I think they are lo0king for a person who won't push those buttons for them.... someone they feel will get along well with them.
Unfortunately, most abusers are not that predictable. Who knows what touches them off. In my experience it could have been anything from putting the mustard in the wrong place in the refrigerator, hanging his jacket second from the end instead of third, or simply putting the mayo directly on the bologna instead of on the bread when I made his lunch for the day. And, God forbid dinner wasn't on the table at exactly 6pm.... not 5:50 or 6:05.... or you'd see it thrown in the garbage or on the floor.
Sharzi | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/28/2008 3:56:28 PM | OutMind wrote:
*****The "look what you made me do" syndrome. So even in those actions the blame is completely shifted. *****
I remember when my kids would trip and fall or stub their toe, etc.... my mother in law would say, "Look what that nasty table (or carpet or wall) did." She took blame from my kids and put it on something else. I asked her if she was that way with my ex, and she said, of course. I wouldn't let her do that with my kids. I would much rather have had her explain to them that if they watch when they're walking, they wouldn't trip on something.... in other words, learning to own the action.
I think that there is a lot of "look what you made me do" things going on.... liars, cheaters, abusers are all the same. They blame everyone else for their actions instead of owning it. My ex used to cry afterwards.... "OMG I don't know why I do that".... he would hug me, say he was sorry, then sit back and say, "If you would only stop doing... . " It was always my fault that he was out of control. When we went for counseling, he would admit that he couldn't control himself and that he didn't know how to stop.
His mother and older brother were his enablers in early childhood and right through to the moment he walked down the aisle with me. He had no consequences. And, since I stayed, I gave him none either. For all his life, he'd been abusive to those who loved him most. At 55 years old, he is still abusing those who care about him.
And they are all to blame in that part of his mind that would cause him hate himself too much if he ever believed it was indeed him who was the monster.
Sharzi | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/28/2008 10:16:10 PM | I can't speak for what other abusers have felt or thought but I will say this for my ex-husband. It may sound like I am still trying to justify his treatment of me but I am not. It was wrong and has hurt me for life. Some things I will never get past, no matter how hard I try.
He was in a public position and very well known. He was "Mister Public Relations" and extremely likeable, and could get along with anybody. He took a lot off of people at times that he should not have had to and was known to be the "easiest guy in the world to get along with". I adored him and thought the same. But it got to be that he developed an emotional, mental and pschological "whipping boy" and I became that person. Of course it was all in the privacy of our home and not everyone saw this side of it. It took a very big toll on my self esteem and self confidence. I continued to take it and he continued to dish it out. I felt that I deserved it all and took blame for about everything wrong in our home and his life. If he had beat me, I would have recognized it as abuse, but it was the subtle beating to my soul and it has been very hard to heal. He still denies to this day that he ever abused me, even as he is on his fourth marriage. If anything is brought up by our grown children about the going-on's in our home in their childhood, he still blames me of being a nasty spirited person and trying to turm our children against him. He can't see that they know and heard the things that happened and as adults, now they know that it was wrong. He has become a victim in his mind and I am still the problem in his life. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:13:34 PM | | Abusers don't see anything wrong with what they do... They excuse their actions as either a well deserved punishment or they had no choice and were driven to do it by anothers wrongful actions. It is all about THEM (a sure sign) and their fear of losing control. Abusers wrongly believe that love is an unconditional compliance and submission of another person. Gaining control of another helps them compensate for their own inadequacies. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:39:25 PM | The mind of an abuser. Well, the term "abuser" is very broad. It could apply to many things. You can abuse food, alcohol, pets, money, drugs and people. So, you are posing the question... does na abuser go into a relationship with the intention of one day abusing that person. Pre-meditated abuse. You might be talking about TOUGH GUYS. These men are overly abusive to women. They are macho, tough, rough specimen. These are the guys, when hauled into court, crying about how much they loved the women they killed! These are the guys that say "she made me do it". They are control freaks also.
Then there's smart guys, who can talk you into anything. They abuse you by their persuasion. They talk you into having an affair with your sister, since she is family.
Then, there's the seductive guys. They are womanizers and know all the tricks.
All these guys are manipulative. They know they abuse, but do not see it as abuse. They feel entitled and believe that women are to be debased and abused.
The do not want to control themselves. They truly do go into the relationship with their own opinions on how woman should be treated. It's that simple. The best intentions are for themselves and their deceiving, controlling, ungodly, addictive, cowardly behaviors. They hunt for women who will fall for inappropriateness, and they RUN FOR HILLS when they find women who will not tolerate any crap. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/30/2008 11:58:49 PM | babycay;
....in the mind of the abuser First: they are always the victim - it is always someone else's fault when things go wrong. Second: Whatever hurt the abused one suffers as a result of being abused, they deserve. Third: The abuser is woefully unhappy with their own self image usually and unhappy with their own lives and because of the 'control freak' within, are basically hell bent on making other people's life as miserable as possible because in some bizaare way (which we 'normal' people can't understand) the abuser derives pleasure in seeing them suffer too. (just a touch of sadism there btw)....and finally Fourth: Abusers in extreme cases utilize scare tactics
as ammunition to control and manipulate to get their way - simply because 'it works' and gets for the attention and control which they so desperately crave.
Abusers are pathetic individuals with major narcisistic tendencies who have difficulty dealing with reality and they are masters of cowardess when confronted. So as you can see they desparately need professional help. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:25:29 AM | First of all no; they dont think that way;
An abuser can only abuse though if they are allowed to; You teach people how to treat you. If you want respect, you wont get abused or at least you nip it in the bud. If you allow it, they you are also part of the problem. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 5:24:24 AM |
Abusers are pathetic individuals with major narcisistic tendencies who have difficulty dealing with reality and they are masters of cowardess when confronted. So as you can see they desparately need professional help.
Conversely, so are their victims that remain with them beyond the first incident.
As one poster stated, we do in fact teach people how to treat us. Expanding a bit on that, it's a matter of personal boundaries, simplistically stated. Abusers cross boundaries, yet victims relinquish boundaries. (Actually, both cross boundaries although the behaviors are different.) BOTH have control issues. The moment a victim relinquishes a boundary, the victim has given permission within that incident. Therein begins the cycle. | |
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jani1
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Joined: 4/12/2007
Msg: 262 | |
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 5:27:58 AM | babacay, I dont think the abuser starts a relationship with the intention to be abusive as such and neither do I think that majority of abusers actually realise they are abusive.
If you encounter this in your prospective partner, you need to be concerned about yourself, not why they do it. I would be out of there that minute. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 6:11:47 AM |
think they go into the relationship with the idea that they will be able to mold you into what is in their mind the ideal partner,which is why they tend to present themselves as mr/ms wonderful in the beginning (whats commonly known as the honeymoon phase).they tend to believe that a relationship is supposed to be the unconditional compliance and submission of another person.control of another human being is often a means to compensate for inadequacies for an abusive person.when something happens that challenges this, the abusive behavior tends to manifest .they tend to believe that the problem is not their behavior but your unwillingness to comply with what they think they are entitled to.thats why they always cast themselves as the innocent victim in the dramatic reenactment.their detachment from reality and basic codes of civilized conduct cause them to believe that they werent going to do it but you made them do it.through no fault of their own.even though the pattern repeats in every relationship they have.they are convinced that the other person forces them to behave like this. against thier will. how could it possibly be them.its just that everyone they have ever met makes them be abusive.so you see ,the world is out to get them and make them do bad things that they would never do without being forced to, ergo, its everyones fault but theyre own.
so well written...and I know my ex thinks his behavior is normal and justified and that others to blame because they are the ones who are messed up. After all...it's just words... | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 9:56:38 AM | | Oh my God you have just explained everything that has happened to me over the last few months !!! and you are so right,,,, x | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:41:52 AM | ...Sharzi knows well and undertands the mindset of the fullblown abuser - and so do i!
YES, 'that is the way they think' sir! youre talking to people here that have been there and done that scene, and altho there are various 'level's of insanity within 'various' individuals who are abusive to those around them, they nontheless ARE abusers.
...remember we're discussing the 'mindset' of an ABUSER - and there are plenty out there both male and female (must be genetic). OP's subject was not discussing the RECIPIENT'S personality foibles - that's a whole other subject for another thread. let's stay on track trekkies.. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:19:58 PM | OP's subject was not discussing the RECIPIENT'S personality foibles - that's a whole other subject for another thread. let's stay on track trekkies..
I disagree. The relationship dynamics apply to both. The element of control within the abuser also applies to the victim. Just because the behavioral elements exhibit differently doesn't diminish the fact that even victims engage in abusive behaviors, albeit not to the obvious degree of the dominant abuser. Ergot - to discuss the mind of the abuser, it would be negligent to the thread topic to not discuss the victim as well, as the victim also engages in abusive behaviors. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:51:00 PM | ...i agree angel on your last final sentence regarding discussing BOTH the ABUSER and the RECIPIENT....if that is the thread up for comment. However, to properly address that particular unit which is comprised of three distinct elements involving three separate subjects - someone needs to construct (set up) a fresh new thread to that effect. Somehow on this particular thread however, we have started a discussion about an entire system. The OP asked what is in the mind of the - ABUSER (only)
1 abuser (current thread)
+ 1 recipient (new thread)
___________
= a dysfunctional interaction (.....new thread).
If someone want's to start another thread discussing the malfunction between two dysfunctional humans and the ramifications of such a liason im sure there's alot of experience and opinion out there to warrant such a thread. Happy blogging y'all! | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 1:08:29 PM | Again, I disgree with you, injesusname.
as the victim also engages in abusive behaviors.
On this element alone, discussion of the victims warrants inclusion in this thread topic "The Mind Of The Abuser".
1 abuser = 1 victim (whether perceived or otherwise)
1 victim = 1 abuser (whether acknowledged or not)
The actions of both are defined by their emotional beliefs. They both engage in controlling and manipulative behaviors in varying degrees, both of these behaviors are in fact abusive by their very nature. They both relinquish and engage in crossing personal boundaries. And so on.
If we are to fully discuss the mind of the abuser, then let's fully discuss it as it IS relevant to both. Sweeping the perceived "innocent victim's" share of accountability under the carpet does not diminish it's relevance to this topic. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 1:53:12 PM | If he had beat me, I would have recognized it as abuse, but it was the subtle beating to my soul and it has been very hard to heal. He still denies to this day that he ever abused me, even as he is on his fourth marriage.
emotional/verbal abuse is much harder to recognize for the victim, and much harder to admit for the abuser...after all, no bruises, no trips to the hospital, no 911 calls....just a guilt, subjugation, blame,apology, excuse, forvive, guilt merry-go-round that leaves the abused in shambles and the abuser feeling totally justified
and sure, it takes two to play...its just that when your self esteem is eroded at a subtle, often glacial, rate by an accomplished emotional abuser who feels their behavior is justified for whatever reason, it takes a while to realize what is going on to even be able to stop playing the game.
But the kids know...they are getting the treatment too...and so do others close enough to you to see whats going on. Listen.
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 2:19:22 PM | I'm not well versed in this subject as some on this thread. I feel some people are implying that one day this person decided to become an abuser. I would think it started as a child or a very young adult. I'm curious to know if it does only manifest itself in some men/women in their later years and then what are the triggers. Is it more of a control issue or the thought of actually harming a person in some manner, be it physical or emotional.
This question is null and void angleheart has provided me with the info that I was seeking, thanks..
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 2:44:13 PM | | The answers to this question is very , very complex and in no way can this be given a quickie for an reply. I will say that thru several years of reading innumerable articles on this subject that fact and logic dictate that many forms of abuse are learned behaviour viewed in childhood as well as can be chemically induced by imbalances in the brain caused by certain chemical defiencies and or brain injuries. Their is way too many generalizations in delving into this behaviour to say it is insidious and planned out is nonsense as the psychopath is not always a physically abusive individual . Heck we still live in a society that is prioritally male controlled in alot of areas and only until women decide that is okay to emulate intelligence with owning their sexuality that we will be able to gain what is unfortunately not available in our now existence a reverant respect for the human brain .... besides we still live in a world where we are molecularly damaging babies everyday as to their anatomic development by feeding their brains with artificial made milk packaged in plastics designed to give our offspring all sorts of early cancers .... because we gottah use up all the depleting oils to fill our pockets and our need for botox or high heels while we kill off the next generation before it even has a chance ... and it is my belief we are already on our path to extinction,as we are de=evolving because of these changes on a massive scale like a pathetically selfish roman empire ... sobering scary but the raw truth and most humans cannot handle the truth cause it is almost as brutal as . lemme see... climate change due to human ego gratification and unfulfilling empty needs that will have cause and affect that will be more catastrophic than anything pompeii ever saw.... so I dunno but I'd say that mental abuse is only as far as the mind can see and unfortunately what it already knows alot of people are not ready for what is coming... the good news is abusive patterns can be unlearned and many people with imbalances can be helped with good intervention to lead normal and peaceful and rewardingly loving lives ... so .. like I said this is only scratching the surface but it is very complex... | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 2:50:43 PM | | One must remember that with every action one takes - there is a choice being made. Abuser do not loose control, although that is their explanation and their way of placing the blame of his actions onto the victim(s). An abuser chooses his or her actions, chooses to lie, chooses to control, chooses to manipulate, chooses to hurt, etc. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 2:54:06 PM | Re: separate threads:
The OP asked what is in the mind of the - ABUSER (only)
Does anyone think it likely that abusers or former abusers will 1) admit to their dysfunctional natures; and 2) post reliable responses on Plenty of Fish? My guess is "no," and that's why the thread consists mainly of posts by victims of abuse. After all, who can postulate about the abuser's mindset adequately, barring a psychology degree?
Just wondering. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 2:55:56 PM | | MSG 271^^^^^I agree with everything you have said, it parallels some of my education, which is a whole other topic. And as you have said "just scratching the surface" and as most, still learning. I used to live in Trenton. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 5/31/2008 2:58:57 PM | I think they go into the relationship with the idea that they will be able to mold you into what is in their mind the ideal partner. - cosmicchild31
And 'they', of course, are always men. Women never abuse anyone or any thing or any situation. As a previous poster said, women have so much love in their hearts. Ipso facto, men do not. Men have precious little love in their hearts. Men are abusers. It's always the men.
Well, at least we've got that settled.
Best wishes - Soul Union. | |
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