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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/13/2007 3:14:05 PM | Sadie 415 said:
'then find their thoughts and emotions uncontrollable and blame the victim for making them act this way.'
yup. that's it to a tee. And there are different kinds of abusers, there are the continuous ones, the ones who verbally and emotionally will dig into a person's psyche to make them flinch, bleed, never touching the victim, or there are the bashers and smashers..... and they do not have to be from backgrounds of abuse, they can come from perfectly normal homes where there never was a fight, words of anger, yelling, screaming, what seems as a totally normal family....but these sad sad people have something missing inside, some control switch, they are usually compulsive in some other way in their life, I don't care if it is nice stuff like working hard, playing hard, working out to extremes....it could be something darker, like drinking hard, gambling hard...whatever, they have a low self esteem, ALWAYS, no matter what they seem to portray to the outside world, inside, they feel unmanly, they feel so deeply, and are so afraid of their emotions (and how people, other men especially, see them) that when they can't deal with the emotion at hand, they can only lash out, it is without rational thought, it is a spontaneous combustion that is unleashed on the hapless victim, a vortex of terror, a spasm of rage like any other mental breakdown, be it epileptic, be it a stroke...these people just crack, often no one can see it coming, it just erupts.....until the next time. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/13/2007 5:29:37 PM | Ok...having scrolled this thread - here are my thoughts.
The bottom line, IMO and experience (not to mention hours upon hours of research and education), is that in terms of the root cause that makes an abuser an abuser vs the root cause of what makes a victim a victim - they are parallel - haven't yet encountered a situation where there wasn't childhood abuse in some manner. The difference is how the individual (as a child) handled it to survive it.
The abuser no more enters in a relationship with intent to abuse than the victim enters into a relationship with the intent of becoming a victim. They each are still utilizing skills that were necessary to survive the abuse they respectively received as children.
Control - neither intends to control the other. Each intends to feel more in control as they are both out of control - each in their own way.
Both have the best of intentions but are caught up in wishful thinking that this is the ONE that can make the pain go away. Only the reality is - the pain doesn't go away. These relationships are full of "trigger" points that elicit the same emotional reactions that each experienced in their respective childhoods which in effect take them emotionally back to the original abuse. Each reacts accordingly.
Both victim and abuser are unhealthy. The skills that were necessary to survive as a child are neither appropriate or effective in adult life - yet until they each confront their respective "demons" in a "safe" environmental setting - they will not be able to overcome for lack of a better word.
Very simplistic overview of a very complex issue.
 a survivor | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/14/2007 5:12:11 AM | | I think they go into a relationship with there best intention, but problem lies is when they love someone to much, that there every thought and feeling is of them, that it consumes them, which breeds anger and they dont know how to control it so they try to control this other person...So i think you can love someone too much and in the end you destroy that love | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/14/2007 6:10:50 AM | The dynamics of an abusive relationship are complex. The basic problem is that some men (and the women that love them) have the misunderstanding that having a big d!ck and being a big d!ck is the same thing. In fact, they are worlds apart.
At the risk of being slammed for defending abusers, one has to wonder what it is that made them think that social conflicts can be solved by being the bigger jerk. How many girls treated some fellows like low lifes in high school? You know... the nerd in whose face you laughed when he suggested you go on a date. How did that shape his opinion on the secret motivations of women. Or the domineering mother that used humiliation as a disciplinary technique. What made these fellows lose their humanity? A million possible reasons, some of which at least one amongst us has encountered at some point.
Unfortunately, abusers do not think their humanity is lost. They think the powerful preying upon the weak is the natural order of things because they too suffered under that order and now their patience has paid off with the glorious feeling that comes from telling someone irritating to go to hell. It is a void that needs constant filling. Abusive partners, teachers, parents, cops, etc. all have the same message: I am the biggest badass you've ever seen and that's why you need to respect me. But they get fear instead of respect, so they try to turn up the heat.
How many of us got a little extra punishment for an offence because someone disliked our "attitude"? Its interesting to note that Charles Manson, as a juvenile, often got the maximum punishment for minor offences because some judges thought it would "sort him out." Clearly, their approach was mistaken- young Charlie resented the unfair society in which he lived and saw no problem thinning it of a few members.
I ask that you not despise abusers and continue the cycle of condemnation/revenge, but rather pity them and help them see where they went wrong if you can. But for God's sake, don't be in a relationship with one!
As for the pleasantness of the early relationship... spread a few bucks around and anyone can put on a good show. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/15/2007 8:01:23 AM | not in the least bit bitter, i carry no baggage and treat men as a new page, lessons learned yes, abusive men should be named and shamed to make other women aware but bitterness of any discription does not belong in my book of life.
As for the '****' comment, a woman is a very powerful creature, she has the yes or no factor as was previously mentioned but that doesn't mean she uses it in a bad way, simply a seductive way to excite the man in her life, he knows he wants her and enjoys the coaxing as much as she, thats part of ' keeping the excitement alive', not to be used in anger nor sulkiness, purely a passion between two. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/15/2007 7:40:15 PM | I ask that you not despise abusers and continue the cycle of condemnation/revenge, but rather pity them
I agree with the first half of the above statement in that abusers should not be despised (their behavior - yes! Their person - no!). However, I disagree with the part about pitying them. Pity is an enabling emotion as it justifies them. Compassion or empathy would be a more appropriate emotion and then, only applied in so far as the fact that they were once victims as well. Regardless of the issues that shaped them into abusers, there comes a time whereby they are accountable for their behavioral choices. The same can also be said of victims that fall into a pattern of abusive relationships.
Condemnation of abusers only serves to propagate or fuel the underlying emotions that precipitate the abuser's destructive behaviors, just as condemnation of victims propagates victimization. No one chooses their parents or their childhoods. EDIT: But - we do choose how we are going to react and respond to those issues.
IMO
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/17/2007 11:17:35 PM | | An abuser a product of his environment. That environment made him what he is. He doesn't go into the relationship with the concious intention of abusing, it's what he does because it's who he is. He needs psychological help and it's hard for an abuser to change. So, in a sense he can't control it unless he gets help. He may truly love his wife, but if he hates women, it's gonna come out of him and she will get it. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/17/2007 11:45:40 PM | Im divided on this one.
Personally, I think they just get caught up in things and control starts slow....I think they get to the point they can't control themselves and have no power (mentally /emotionally) over what happens anymore.
However I had an ex that became abusive and I'll tell you, she waited just 2 weeks after we were married to start. Tell then she was great pretty well.
And yes, it DOES stem from insecurity, I have many friends who are physchologists and they all say so. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/17/2007 11:57:12 PM | They see nothing wrong with what they are doing. They crave control and power regardless of the wishes of the abuse-ee. Bad bad badddd.
Red Flags/Warning signs:
Constantly in your business, where are you going what are you doing etc.
Wanting you to spend over amouts of times with him and ditch your friends. Trying to isolate you from other people (excessivly, making you more dependent on them, making themselves your world)
Putting you down (makes you feel like you don't deserve them)
Letting you know that you are an exeption to their rules (I usually only go out with white people but you're a diffrent case)
Trying to break into email accounts and the like.
Easily upset over little things
Possessivness (excessivly)
Keep in mind some abusers are remorseful after a fight or something they will try and 'make it up to you' give you things and say it will never happen again. If it happens once chances are it will happen again. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/18/2007 12:31:18 AM | | I have been there my self for 13 years just got out of the relationship a year ago, and I myself am very fortuanate to still be here. we have 4 kids together so it was a very difficult situation for me. and unfortunately he will be forever a part of my life. I can say that I dont believe they go into a relationship with the intent to abuse, just like a victim doesnt go into another abusive relationship on purpose. An abuser is someone that has severe mental issues, and a very low self esteem. Their intentions are to do good and right but the reality is that to them good and right is what they see in there eyes only and no one elses. They are in control and how they think is the only answer, and how they feel is all that matters. They will do whatever it takes to keep that control and to make sure that you are week so week that you forget he has hurt you instead you start to believe that you hurt him and deserved whatever there punishment was at the time. They will take evrything from you and more, an abuser whether it be male or female is just a scared human being that lacks most of lifes morals and values and has built themselves up by destroying others, they feed on there victims self sacrafice and they only get stronger the more you allow it cuz then they feel power and power means they have achieved something which in return makes them feel good. The truth is though that greatness only lasts for awhile then they need to feel it again which is why once an abuser always an abuser unless they seek some serious mental help!! | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/19/2007 12:47:53 PM | sweetlilnative don't be completely lead by the warning signs. my ex never looked into my affairs, e mails and the like, i was given total freedom to be with my friends and a healthy 'allowance' to lunch and shop to my hearts content.I wasn't put down quite the reverse, he told everyone how he adored me.The problems they have are very very deep, I still believe it stems from being beaten by his mother and put into boarding school, hundreds of miles from home at the age of 7, he felt abused and segregated, he tried to prove himself to his parents and as he became a success in buisiness, the power meant he had control over something at last, as the business grew, so did the ego, then when he had everything he wanted from life his mind relived his sorrows, began drinking heavy as the business by then ran itself, the mixture brought anger and it's true we always hurt the ones we love most.
I pity him greatly because he will never feel complete, I received a message as I began divorce proceedings, it read, 'go on then divorce me, I will be laughing all the way with a bottle of Moet', isn't that sad?
All I can say is I am so thankful to be a survivor and it has all made me very strong yet have compassion and love in my heart for all that enter my life, sometimes the hardest lessons are the most treasured ones. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/19/2007 1:06:11 PM | | Being a Victim of abuse from a young age into adulthood - All types of abusers are nothing but low down cowards, who doesn't even deserve to walk the streets - let alone breathe the same air as those who are victims. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/19/2007 6:10:26 PM | This is a reply to message 13 > scorpiomover.
Your analysis is wonderful. While reading about the five stages, I was reminded of a relationship I had several years ago. - I was married and had two children. The marriage started to deteriorate and I was seeking the help of counseling. There I heard the first time that I was in a mentally abusive relationship. Things got to be rough, we split and later divorced. I managed to get through this fairly well.
However, during the last year of this marriage I met in a chat room a man from my home country. He lived together with his wife in Texas on a business visa. At first we just chatted about the circumstances around living in a foreign country. Then we shared about our problems with our partners. In short, we became friends. He and his wife visited with us, staying about two weeks at a time. I thought really to have found good friends who even spoke my language. (Communication seemed to be the big problem between my husband and myself.) When all was falling apart, my "friend" supported me through the hard times.
There I was in all my vulnerability, and he the knight in shining armor.
From this time on, everything went as you have described it within the 5 stages. He went from knight to leech. I will skip the sad story and details and continue to part how I got out of it. (BTW I married the fellow, just so to give him a chance against the bad world who has it in for him.)
One day, he packs up his stuff declaring that he has found a job and will work to support me. When he had left, I changed the locks and sticked with my guns not to let him back into my house. This is now over four years ago. I now know how much I can do without having an abuser in my life. However, I do not easily trust anymore. My best to all who are in such a relationship and very good running shoes. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/19/2007 6:16:09 PM | yes,i get it,anybody who argues with you,or you dont like is an abuser.
well these people do go into relationships with opinions which may not be the same as you,so what?
i question the title of this thread also,`the mind of an abuser`...i was expecting an anthropological study maybe government sponsored,and all we got was you having a tough time arguing with your boyfriend and name calling
thanks
john | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/20/2007 12:47:09 AM | Being a Victim of abuse from a young age into adulthood - All types of abusers are nothing but low down cowards, who doesn't even deserve to walk the streets - let alone breathe the same air as those who are victims.
The best way to stay a victim is to keep thinking like one. Even victims are cowards if one were to be totally honest and apply this same judgment as the poster applied to abusers.
Neither abuser NOR victim enters into an abusive relationship with the express intent of abusing or becoming abused. That is an irrefutable fact. There is further a lot of truth in "raise a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it". Applies to victims and abusers. Abusers in the context of relationships are following the path of least resistance - as are victims. Assigning total responsibility to abusers in the respective relationships does not absolve the victims of their ownership in these relationships, for the victims also are following the path of least resistance - familiarity.
There are certainly exceptions are there are with any aspect of human behavior. However, to assign intent to either abuser or victim, one assumes that either (or both) has cognitive insight into their behavioral choices and the majority do not.
EDIT: Bottom line - there are no victims without volunteers.
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/20/2007 1:15:27 AM | Interesting thread, a lot of great ideas, and a few that deserve to be questioned.
"there are no victims without volunteers" really sounds too much like blaming the victim to me. I don't think many people consciously go into a situation intending to be abused. And once into the relationship, some are unable to extricate themselves from it.
Anyway, I'll add my two cents.
Abusers may very well have been abused themselves at some previous point in their lives. They cope by seeing the abuse as normal behavior. If they do recognise that behavior as falling outside appropriate treatment of others, they justify it by telling themselves that they turned out fine (normal) so of course the target of their actions will benefit from it as well.
An interesting phenomenon I have experienced is that 'victim's' definition of abuse really depends on what they consider 'normal'. If they grow up in a lax lifestyle with everything provided for them, and few responsibilities, even the simple act of being asked to clean up after themselves could be considered abusive behavior.
Both men and women are capable of inflicting incredible psychological pain.It might only be a few, short sentences to cripple their target's life for years to come. My ex said some things to me at the end of our marriage that to this day impede me from pursuing a relationship. I get just so far getting to know someone, and then the feelings of past failures, of not wanting to again disappoint another, stop any thoughts of seeing the relationship progress at all. I know it's stupid. I know she said things out of anger and frustration with her own life. But there will always linger in the back of my mind that maybe all the things she said could be true. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/20/2007 3:41:22 AM | "there are no victims without volunteers" really sounds too much like blaming the victim to me. I don't think many people consciously go into a situation intending to be abused. And once into the relationship, some are unable to extricate themselves from it.
First, before clarifying my statement, let me say this about blame. Anyone following my posts should know by now that I do not assign nor do I support blame. I absolutely support accountability for one's choices. And everyone, be it victim or abuser, has made choices that got them into the abusive relationship - and there no exceptions there.
If one is to realistically try to get into the mind of the abuser, then one must also try to get into the mind of their victims - otherwise, we are promoting victimization by projecting the entire dysfunction and abuse onto the abuser. Well, guess what? Victims are also abusers in those relationships - only differently. Every time a victim buys into the projected reality of blame from the abuser - the victim is abusing herself (or himself). Every time a victim is adapting her behavior to meet the criteria established by the abuser to avoid further consequences implimented by the abuser - the victim is abusing herself AND controlling the abuser. General overview.
Now - clarifying my statement. Every relationship has a beginning and every relationship begins with choices. Every relationships continues as the result of choices. For anyone to even suggest that victims have no choices in the abusive relationships that they have in reality chosen is projecting that there is a select group of people on the planet that is exempt from accountability and consequences from their choices.
In no way is the abuser justified for their behavior. However, neither are the victims. Explainable? Yes. But each has accountability. Childhood abuse is a reason that explains the why - but the why doesn't matter. It's the behavior that matters at the end of the day. Nor does it matter whether one understands or intends to commit certain acts or choices - in neither case are either absolved of personal accountability for the choices that got them where they found themselves. Neither are children any more.
But it's a peculiar thing about accountability as people who are unhealthy in their thinking prefer to stay stuck in the comfort zone of defering accountability, yet remain in effect clueless on why they can't leave or why they keep hooking up with abusive men. The answers lie within themselves. But as long as the focus remains on the abusers, the victims will remain victims - by choice.
And it is by the choices we make that causes us to be volunteers for victimization in the aspect of relationships.
I am sure I will get flack on this thread for my statements but before reacting, consider this. By personal experience, I finally "got it" so I think I am well within the framework of rational thinking in what I am posting on this topic.
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/20/2007 3:58:12 AM | i agree with a great deal of what has already been posted and carnt really comment further as i have never personally been with an abuser,i have learnt though that there are different forms of abuse, physical, mental, and emotional,
Guess these people(abusers) dont realize they are actually doing what they are doing,in one of my family members case it was the past army life that played a big part on going onto mentally abuse, but to them they dont see what they are doing as wrong and then it becomes a habit that carnt be broken especially if they are stubborn and wont get help | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/20/2007 4:11:46 AM | | I believe they don't realize yet that there is anything wrong with their behavior...that they see no reason to change it...if you are being abused...get out! | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/20/2007 4:30:07 AM | The cycle of abuse is amazing. Before you realize it you can easily be in the middle of an abusive relationship, that you never even saw coming.
The abuser never thinks he/she is at fault. There is ALWAYS a reason for the behavior and the abuse. "the boss upset me" "I lost my job" "it was a bad day at work" "I got a flat tire" "I don't like what you made for dinner" "my favorite shirt/jeans are in the laundry" and on and on the list goes. There is always some excuse for the bad mood, which leads to the fight, which leads to the violence.
The do not intend to abuse, they want to control everything around them, including the victim. They think they are innocent in the entire affair. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/20/2007 7:10:49 AM | Angelheart, I find it absolutely amazing that people still can rationalize blaming the victim. Especially when the situation involves children. Kids don't have the life experience or knowledge to know when someone is lying to them, hence their belief in santa claus and the easter bunny.
Nor are you able to consider an adult brought into an abusive situation by the lies of their abusers. Some women only have two choices; continue in the abusive relationship, or die at the hands of their abusers. I guess you would consider those women partially to blame for continuing in the relationship rather than die? Not much choice, is there. But there was a choice, right?
I've actually heard that style of reasoning before, about the people killed in the nazi death camps. After all, they could have chosen to try to escape, and gotten shot. Obviously those who stayed 'chose' to be killed by the poison gas, so they had to assume their responsibility for being gassed. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/20/2007 8:10:54 AM | I've actually heard that style of reasoning before, about the people killed in the nazi death camps. After all, they could have chosen to try to escape, and gotten shot.
There is absolutely NO comparison in what I stated to Nazi war camps and I am appalled that one would have the audacity to even suggest such a comparison. So please let us not convolute this thread with unrelated matters.
I find it absolutely amazing that people still can rationalize blaming the victim. Especially when the situation involves children
First of all, my situations did involve children and yes my children were abused at night while I slept and when I was at work. And, no - I did not raise them with the victim mentality that is so pervasively accepted in our society. I taught my girls that they had two choices - let the abuse continue with the blame game and they would remain victims, OR they could turn it around, rise above it. Choose the former and the abuser wins. Choose the latter and they overcome as well as win. My daughters are 22 and 29 at present. And I tell you what - not one of them have ever found themselves in an abusive relationship - not one. Between them and I - we broke the cycle of abuse. But we couldn't even get started on that journey until we took back our power in our choices, and that starts with personal accountability. I am very proud of my daughters' successes in relationships, btw.
Persist in blame mentality but do not project that on me when it simply isn't there in my thinking period.
Some people "get it" and some people don't. I don't control that choice. However, for the handful that truly seek a road map out of that pattern - they will find it in the power of their choices. Even a victim chooses how they will react and respond to every situation - each and every time.
Nor are you able to consider an adult brought into an abusive situation by the lies of their abusers.
An abuser would not be able to con the victim if the victim didn't permit it. In every abusive relationship I was "victim" of, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the red flags were there at the onset of the relationship. And I have been involved in a number of relationships of that nature with devastating consequences. I can tell you in each and every one of those relationships, in retrospect out of sheer determination not to continue in a pattern that consumed most of my adult life, that I chose to ignore the red flags that were there and chose to "buy into" the illusion the abuser created.
I guess you would consider those women partially to blame for continuing in the relationship rather than die? Not much choice, is there
I did die - twice, beginning on 2/20/1985 and also on 2/22/1985 (I also knew of his intent to kill me before I fled and had I not fled, I would have died anyway). I made the choice to leave with nothing but the clothes on my back, a tote bag of my then 4 year old daughter's clothes and no where to go. My first apartment, my mother was gracious enough to co-sign the lease - that was all the "support" I got from her. We slept on the floor for a week with the roaches before I could scare up a bed somewhere for my daughter. My rent took more than half my income so I starved in order for my daughter to eat. For a year and a half, knowing that I transported my daughter in my car, my first abuser tampering endlessly with my vehicle and not even law enforcement could do anything because it was also titled in my ex's name so legally, he could do what he wanted to it. He followed me time after time with a loaded 357 magnum hoping to catch me with someone so he had in his mind justifiable reason to blow me away because I was an obstacle in his perverted relationship with his daughter. On 2/20/1985 - the one day I did not check my vehicle, I never made it to work. Within an hour of my car wreck before I was even extricated from my vehicle, my ex had petitioned the court for custody and got it - even with all the evidence to support his rather sick relationship with my daughter, they gave it to him. In less than 24 hours of my wreck - he used his salvage contacts to dispose of the evidence which was my car - I was still fighting for my life in ICU. This aspect is only a microbe of my experience on this topic.
So please, in general, anyone wants to project that I am blaming the victims? Best leave that thought to yourselves. Post a different perspective, by all means - but don't project something on me that isn't there. But I would venture to say that when it comes to life experience, I most assuredly am quite qualified to educate on this topic.
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knows the signs, can see the flags..... and 
like h*ll 
