|
|
|
|
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 7:57:12 AM | | I am sooo confused,I left my husband;believing that he was emotionally abusive.Now he says he wants to try again,but still in my head it looks as tho he still blames everything on me,and just is never willing to compromise.Afraid I was starting to fall into it again.Is it possible,have you ever seen it;where some of us who think we are being abused really are just seeing things wrong?Yeah,sounds stupid I know,but I really am wondering! | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 8:03:43 AM |
I am sooo confused,I left my husband;believing that he was emotionally abusive.Now he says he wants to try again,but still in my head it looks as tho he still blames everything on me,and just is never willing to compromise.Afraid I was starting to fall into it again.Is it possible,have you ever seen it;where some of us who think we are being abused really are just seeing things wrong?Yeah,sounds stupid I know,but I really am wondering!
Of course he wants to try again! Listen to your gut! What is it telling you?
Do NOT listen to the words he has said and is saying. Listen to your gut. If you think his behaviour was abusive, it probably was on some level.
You don't say how long you were married to this man or how long you have been away from him. These are important factors. My ex tried for 3 months to get me to take him back....promised me the moon and the stars....promised to never raise his hand or voice again. Too bad I saw right through that trash. Once I left I never went back. I still see him all the time as we have a child together, but now he is not abusive to me...he has a new victim, and I hear from my son the things that he says to the new woman and see that he has not changed at all. They seldom do.
If you truly love this man and are not sure his behaviour is abusive, then suggest couples counseling, while still living apart. If he refuses counseling, I feel you will have your answer pure and simple.
good luck to you  | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 8:21:09 AM | | I loved him before all the trash,together 13 yrs,one 12 yr old,of course me gut says no!Its just all very confusing when you want to do the right thing,just being ridiculous,really.The right thing is for me to teach myself and my son how to not take this crap!lol!we/ve been apart 6 months,and I was HAPPY! now that the divorce is almost final,now he wants to try,,,did therapy,he learned to keep his mouth shut,but became even angrier really...so a good lesson for anyone else in this situation I spose. | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 8:27:04 AM | To original poster: Very thought provoking post! I have carefully reviewed other peoples' responses to this thread. The messages that come closest to my views are angelhearts's posts, soft aura msg 47 and Cabby 37 msg 44.
Themes that come to mind for me are:
the relationship betweeen abuse and control
taking responsibility for one's actions and choices
abusers and victims seeking professional help to heal their own victimization wounds
(since many abusers are untreated victims of abuse and may not even be aware of how this abuse has affected how they see themselves and others and how they interact in intimate relationships )
Can someone change their own abusive behavior? I think that it is possible if they have the motivation and the willingness to put their thoughts into action. I think that anyone who wants to change abusive behavior needs to get connected with professional support as soon as possible to initiate ,develop and maintain any lasting behavior change. | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 8:28:55 AM | freefallinT
It sounds like you know he is not good for you and that going back would be a big mistake. You deserve to be happy.
Do not be sucked in by his words when you know in your heart that they are not true.
You will do fine on your own. Noone needs or deserves to be treated poorly. You've done you time in hell - time to move on.
Good luck to you. | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 8:36:38 AM |
I am sooo confused,I left my husband;believing that he was emotionally abusive.Now he says he wants to try again,but still in my head it looks as tho he still blames everything on me,and just is never willing to compromise.Afraid I was starting to fall into it again.Is it possible,have you ever seen it;where some of us who think we are being abused really are just seeing things wrong?Yeah,sounds stupid I know,but I really am wondering!
The confusion in part results when reality is in conflict with wishful thinking. Shoot - I left more than once before I was able to leave one final last time. Each time, believing the illusion that he would change. It's what I wanted to believe. It was easier that being confused. Well, the abuse only changed in so far as it got worse.
Some things you can do before making any decision to return (and that is a personal choice, btw). Find in your local area a domestic assault support group. Usually one can tap into them through the domestic abuse hotline. If your husband is agreeable, the both of you enter into professional counseling - while living separately. If he is not agreeable, then you go and you go for yourself, not him. Ultimately, you do have to make your own choice as to whether to return or not. But at least make an informed choice.
If you want to email me privately, I can send you a link to a couple of very good informational and support sites on this very topic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in the thread yet that needs to be brought to the table is the subject of "triggers". That applies to abusers as well as victims. An overview of a "trigger" is simply an emotional reaction in response to a current event that brings an individual back to a traumatic event in their past. One could even go so far as to say it is a post traumatic stress reaction. When that current event hits that "trigger", the reaction is typically sudden in nature and grossly disproportionate to the current event. Typically, the overwhelming emotional reactions to the original trauma were repressed. They impact on both the victims and the abusers albeit it in different ways. It is not a conscious or controllable reaction when it occurs. It is precisely the reason that I take the position that both victim and abuser have a share of accountability in the cycle of abuse as each fuel the unhealthy dynamics albeit differently.
This thread was obviously much needed and the OP should be applauded for initiating it.
| |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 1:28:13 PM | ^^^ good point angelheart 3^^^
I've found this thread fascinating -- as many of you have. As I read through the various comments it hits home for me. As a survivor of emotional abuse for the better half of my life I've found that the second half of my life has been spent trying to better understand and control those "triggers" that still affect me.
Angelheart is perfectly correct. The triggers of past experiences can be the real demons.
I can spot an abusive personality a mile away these days. For me, if I see signs of emotional abuse surfacing in a relationship, I initially address it to bring everything on the table. Usually to no avail and the relationship is hopelessly doomed anyway. | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 1:46:23 PM | The triggers of past experiences can be the real demons.
...and they are the biggest barriers to achieving a healthy relationship with anyone. The only way to overcome them is to confront one's own triggers. Takes courage. I have yet to encounter anyone who has been successful at overcoming triggers effectively without professional help. I am sure there are exceptions - I just haven't encountered any.
| |
|
| |
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 4:20:45 PM |
First sign of it... split!
Agreed, once it has begun it will never stop. Usually it begins as somethingas simple as an "accidental" slap or a smack here and there and once they realize they can get away with it and feed them that B.S. story of how sorry they are and how much they love them and it won't happen again...it does. And it will always continue until the woman fnally leaves. My sister lived with more than one of those cowardly basta*ds and she never really got away until she finally died. Please ladies, if it's beginning to happen do yourself a favor and any kids that might be around and leave....forever! Never but that "I'm sorry" crap either, it's a lie and will never stop until you get away. | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/22/2007 4:30:05 PM |
Usually it begins as somethingas simple as an "accidental" slap or a smack here and there
Actually - it starts before the "accidental" slap. Subtle changes in behavior that often go unnoticed. Subtle shifting of blame. Subtle changes in tensions. Verbal cues that the whole dynamics of the relationship are changing...
Please ladies, if it's beginning to happen do yourself a favor and any kids that might be around and leave....forever! Never but that "I'm sorry" crap either, it's a lie and will never stop until you get away.
I absolutely agree with this...abuse only escalates and it's Russian Roulette staying as it only takes once to lose your life and no one knows when that line will be crossed and who will cross it.
| |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/23/2007 2:20:34 AM | | Having known both abusive men and women, I think generally they do not enter relationships with the intent of abusing their partner. When something changes within the relationship that they may not find agreeable, then they seek to control the situation/individual. | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/23/2007 2:38:13 AM |
Having known both abusive men and women
Timely post, tick tock, as abuse is certainly NOT a gender issue. Thank you.
they seek to control the situation/individual
The irony of that statement is both abuser and victim are escalating out of control - only differently. One internalizes and the other externalizes. I don't believe either acts with specific intent to control the other. I equate it to a drowning man OR woman who is thrashing about trying to stay afloat and the life preserver is the respective partner. Controlling the partner, projecting blame on the partner and so on creates the illusion of control for the abuser. Only as with all illusions, it is a temporary bandaid solution on a gaping wound where surgery is warranted. The partner on the other hand also controls as when the "explosion" hits, the victim's sense of control is lost thereby resulting in the victim attempting to control the abuser's behavior by changing her (or his in the case of a male victim) behavior so that the abuse will not recur - yet another illusion. Over-simplified explanation.
| |
|
daisie
|
Joined: 9/22/2004
Msg: 114 | |
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/23/2007 3:26:36 AM | OP Im sure there are some abusers who do it for one reason and some who do it for the other reason. but unless you are the psychiatrist getting paid BIG bucks to figure this crap out....WHO CARES WHY??????
Dont stick around to figure it out. Its not worth your time and trouble , he's not worth your time and trouble, so go get a guy who doesnt have all this "baggage" . It aint your job to fix the schmuck!!! | |
|
| |
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/24/2007 6:11:47 AM | | This is an extremely difficult subject. The abuser may not be even aware he s doing it. He may think he s the best husband in the entire world. I know someone very close who s doing this and I tell you he thinks he s mister perfect. To make up for his abuse he buys European vacations and nice cars and takes his wife out to nice restaurants and he will even clean the house once in a while. On the other hand he puts her down constantly , screams and yells at her , plays mind games on her all day long, its a surprise she s still sane. All I can tell you is you have to get out of such a relationship, believe me it will only get worse, and if your smart dont tell him your leaving just do it. It will only make your last days bearable, unfortunately we are not all able to do this. An emotional abusive husband will become very vindictive especially when he knows you are leaving. | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/24/2007 7:20:57 AM |
He may think he s the best husband in the entire world. I know someone very close who s doing this and I tell you he thinks he s mister perfect
What makes it more difficult in the leaving of an abusive relationship is that to the world outside the home, the abuser often appears to be just that - the perfect husband or the perfect wife (if the abuser is the wife and the husband is the victim). This creates an increased lack of support to the victim once the victim leaves because of the outside illusion the abuser has created and the victim has had no choice but to support (the illusion that is) prior to leaving. Add to that - whoever the victim chooses to trust enough to disclose the abuse to actually has been given the privilege of being the primary support to the victim and is the one that can be very instrumental in helping the victim escape the abuse to safety.
It is a very difficult subject as well as complex.
| |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/27/2007 4:23:54 AM | Babycat to answer your question (same as Robin4wheels, Quest for Love) (not from personal experience thank god, but from women I know who were abused and a very knowledgeable clinical psychologist that taught my college Psych class.....BOTH.
TheLionsDaughter, hyacinth1974 and others know....I am sorry that they found out the hard way...no one should ever have to experience that BS.
Listen to cosmicchild31...wow, good description.
Some turn given time, for a variety of reasons. But if you looked hard often you would find that their fathers treated them and their mothers poorly. (Not always true, but true most of the time, there are always exceptions in life, with everything, but mostly true)
Once they go down this road, like others have pointed out, they don't see anything wrong with it. It's normal, the only way they can 'control' the situation.
From the ladies I have known and have seen echoed here so summarized these…:
The warning signs are there if you watch for them...
- it starts before the hitting… read those books!
- 'not seeing anything wrong with what they do'
- after hitting you, "saying it will never happen again" It can't happen unless you let it...RUN!!!
- it's not them it's you, your fault they do what they do; putting you down, demeaning you; humiliating you;
- controlling every aspect of your life (gradually over time, slowly, methodically)
- extremely jealous; extremely possessive.
- its all about them; one guy wanted to be her 'god' and he was NOT joking, lol;
- they NEVER care about you, therefore you don't matter; they don't understand empathy;
- extremely low self esteem
- winning at all costs, no matter what
- molding you into their 'ideal partner'
- no personal responsibility for their actions
- the world is out to get them (esp. your friends and family)
- isolate you from family and friends both
- not able to relate to a real person
- the look for certain types of women, they prey on them
- always in your business, your cell phone, your computer, your myspace page, your mail, et...
Important to remember
- you CAN'T change them
- loving them more will not change them
- the more charming they were in the beginning, the more abusive they will be later, you owe them...
- more charming to the point that it isn't natural (unlike any guy you have ever known); more caring; more wonderful;
- drug and alcohol abuse
- lots of wall bashing (hitting anything out of anger, eventually he will hit you)
- very jealous (extremely jealous)
- for years no problem have a kid, they think you are 'stuck', trapped, 'theirs'
And if you stay with an abuser, enabling the abuse, here is what is in your future:
- "I will never do it again" - but he will and does.
- "he said he will kill me when he gets out"
- "If I file for divorce, he will kill me"
- "if I call the police, he will kill me"
- "if I leave he will find me"
- "he will take my kids" (Important note, if you don't report, you don't file, yes he will take your kids)
- "he will take my kids and I will never see them again" (can't see them if you are dead)
- "i tried it and could of so easily have died doing so !!!!!" - you were lucky, congrats.
I have only heard one person on here mention about the additional 'isolating' that goes on when you are perceived as 'having been abused' another thing that happens, a woman will tell someone that they are being abused, but it sounds so outrageous they are NOT believed! Guess what people, that was a cry for help, did you help?
After my divorce (amicable, no abuse, thank goodness) I dated some abused women, no I did not know it when I met them, it came out later. The first one, her story sounded so far beyond belief, that I am ashamed to admit that I did not believe her at first (and the ex was charming to others too, so it was NOT obvious) but learned over time that she was right on the money. I was shocked. Enter abused gf #2, this one I believed instantly, no doubt. Amazing how similar their story's were (pretty much identical, these guys are very systematic and follow the same pattern, over and over and over, that is why if you know about it you can avoid them, they will find someone else, but at least you will not be in hell for having dated them.)
If they don’t plan it the first go around, you can’t count on them planning it with the next woman!
Some additional thoughts on warning signs:
does he do things that most guys never think of, those incredibly thoughtful gifts that take lots of time, a poem based on a personal experience you two had, a song or perhaps like one guy that was abusing a roommate of mine, he actually cut out pieces of different things that meant something to her based on their experiences together and put together a 3-D picture of these object, immaculate detail framed in a deep frame covered by a glass. Even though he abused her, she kept thinking that she would never meet another guy like him (it took her a long time to realize that she did NOT need to meet another guy like him EVER.
Even with my girlfriend talking to her (she was with the first kind of abusive ex, everything was fine through most of the marriage, until they had kids, then all of a sudden he changed....he was not always like he was in the end, which makes leaving harder, (but leave you MUST, unless you want to DIE!) telling her that it would get worse, pointing out the things that she did not want to see that were in front of her face, everyone else could see them, but she 'refused' to see them.... "but he is so romantic"; "but he is so incredibly thoughtful"; "he is so charming", etc.... All the while he was slowing isolating her from everyone and anyone who recognized him for what he was...slowly, slowly, methodically isolating her from all her friends and her own family.
And she allowed it to occur....
He womanized, she forgave him.
He used drugs, promise he would stop, (she said that she would not have anything to do with him if he continued to use, but he kept using, she kept going back to him)
All 'his' friends told her that he was doing more than 'flirting' actually meeting and sleeping with other women, sometimes right in front of her in a bar, and she kept going back to him. He had her hooked that well! (Ironically a 19 yr. old male moved in with us and actually thought what the guy was doing to her was funny, that he did the same thing to the women he dated, he was charming, funny, handsome (so women told me). I simply thought he was a jerk, boy could he turn on the charm, but he did not give a RATs about anyone but himself. He was in sales too! No problem taking anyone and proud of it!
It made everyone that knew her SICK! It was so obvious, why the heck couldn't she see him for what he was.
Finally my girlfriend and I stopped talking to him when he would come over. He liked that, he wanted to avoid us anyway. We did not talk behind his back to her, we told him to his face. No he did not like us!
Does he only have 'negative' things to say about all your friends? About your family? (Think, how many years have you known your family and friends and in days, a few weeks or even a month, he knows better than you, really, Really, REALLY? (WAKE UP) RUN AWAY FROM HIM.
OH MOST IMPORTANTLY, hopefully you will eventually leave the jerk. If you want to live, YOU MUST. You are no good to your kids dead! Please remember that, we are talking about LIFE and DEATH for you. He will not care once you are gone! You cannot tell ANYONE where you go, no matter what. Family, friends, everyone and anyone. These jerks know everyone you know and if you have ‘new’ friends they may know them too! Leave everything behind if you want to live. Don’t tell anyone where you are going, until you have enough money to mount both a ‘legal’ defense and arrange for armed ‘protection’ from him!
THAT IS YOUR FUTURE IF YOU DON’T HEED THE WARNING SIGNS!!!!
You own friends and family will NOT believe you in most cases (some of this is your own fault for not reporting it in the first place, but no point in placing blame, you hid it, now it is even more hard to believe, you enabled it, plain and simple. If you want out, a clean break is the only way and that takes money. He knows what you do for a living, the first place he will look. He knows your habits, coffee, lunch, exercise, everything MUST change to keep yourself safe. You family will only see him as the ‘nice’ guy you have always presented him to be. They will not hesitate to tell him where you are, why shouldn’t they, he is harmless. It’s the way you have let the outside world see him.
THAT IS YOUR FUTURE IF YOU DON’T HEED THE WARNING SIGNS!!!! Years of pain!
RUN, RUN, RUN, RUN and don’t tell anyone where you are going and why. The simplest activity can leave a paper trail that these jerks can find. YOU MUST be paranoid to stay away from them.
I wish you well and hope none of you ever find yourself there! Recognize those warning signs will save you years of heartache!
For those that have encountered this, best wishes on staying safe! You can do it! You deserve to be happy. (Don’t acknowledge this if you are still in jeopardy, just know that many people wish you well, keep yourself safe at all cost!)
Sorry for the long post, but you really hit a nerve, its scary how common this is, I am surprised that they deleted the first post as this information will help so many! I am glad they did not delete this one! The latest stats (and if underreported that is scary) states 1 in 3 women and 1 in 6 men will experience abuse in their life. That is way to high, way to common and we live in the United States, not the middle east, WOW!
Sign me ‘eyes opened, sadly!’ | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/27/2007 4:37:59 AM | a woman will tell someone that they are being abused, but it sounds so outrageous they are NOT believed!
More often than not, outrageous as it is out of the scope of experience with the listener's experience and observation of the abuser when the abuser is "on stage" in society. I also found that when relating my experience (much worse than I have disclosed in this thread), it is so horrible that is unbelievable and my conclusion on that has been that the human mind in the absence of personal experience has a limit as to what it can conceive to be viable and true. Especially when a victim actually survives and transitions to living life as opposed to surviving life. It doesn't compute in other words.
Exceptionally valuable post, interorl7, one with a lot of insights that I have every confidence will serve to be very valuable to the readers of this thread.
| |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:12:18 AM | Angelheart3
I agree with almost everything about not being believed, but would like to point something out that affects this disbelief: False accusations.
My ex- was like the stripper (or whatever it was she claimed to be) in the Duke case. She flat out lied about me. And people believed her. I lost a church job and became a pariah because of her. The only claim that came close to the truth was that I slapped her once.
Well, yes I did -- while defending myself from HER attack on me: she was going for my eyes or face, don't care which, with long fingernails. Unfortunately for me, there were no cops or news teams interested in my story, so the truth never came out.
I am sorry for anyone who suffers at the hand of an abuser, but this is a look at the flip side of the equation. | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:26:48 AM | the cycle of abuse is so incredibly damaging...they abuse, and then say things like, "well, i wouldn't have to do this if you..." and then they promise to never do it again, so sorry, honeymoon period, gifts, flowers. then, WHAM...the cycle starts again. if they are really good, they will convince you all the while how lucky you are that they are with you, as opposed to someone who didn't *make* them spiral so far out of control!...and you start believing it, which makes you think that there are no possibilities if you leave! sometimes, it starts slowly...with verbal abuse, *little* thinks like a push here or there, and then it escalates. they will isolate you from family/friends so that your whole world revolves around *them*. you will find yourself saying/thinking things like, "when the relationship is good, it's SO good, but when it's bad, it's hell!" there becomes little in between these two extremes. in my opinion, most abusers don't even know what they're doing, so far gone is their moral compass.
been there, done that, got the man convicted!
run, don't walk...and don't look back! | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/27/2007 8:23:30 AM |
I agree with almost everything about not being believed, but would like to point something out that affects this disbelief: False accusations.
First of all, I regret that you had your experience and I applaud you for bringing up this side of the coin. Experiences such as yours aren't limited to abuse issues and often occur even within our system of justice when the wrong person is convicted of a crime that they didn't commit.
We don't live in a perfect world and we are not perfect people. Sometimes bad things happen to good people and it defies our understanding when it happens to us. I can totally relate to how devastating your situation was to you. When I was going though my first abusive relationship, I was very active in the church as well. Now mind you - there is difference between your circumstances and mine but the end result was the same. The minister of my church back in the day actually preached a sermon on me two consecutive Sundays and ordered the congregation to not speak to me, sit at my table, cross the street should they encounter me on the same side of the street. He furthered his sermons on his radio program and this continued for three weeks.
My sin? I fled my husband for the safety of my daughter and I. In the minister's mind, I had no Biblical grounds to leave as at that point, my husband was no longer beating me in a manner physically verifiable - having changed his tactics to tampering with whatever vehicle I drove, that practice which a year and a half later nearly ended my life. The congregation, btw, followed the minister's lead. For 20 years, I would not enter a church for that reason.
I have come to learn though, that even though really bad things happen, it is not so important what "they" did as it is important what I do with that experience in terms of my relationship between me and God. He will hold them into account in terms of my experience as He will hold those into account in terms of your experience. In His time.
I hope things in your life are going much better since then.
| |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/27/2007 9:41:09 AM | Justice seems to be on vacation in this world....
However, let it be said that when someone kills or hurts another, a part of themselves are killed as well. Some people who are damaged beyond repair appear healthy and functional on the outside. Many of these people are in power over others. Many are just walking dead with no hope of ever coming back to life within themselves. They therefore seek to feed on the life-force and the hopeful innocence of others.
Always try to look deep at the motive of these around you and live the life of beauty while protecting yourself. Not an easy thing to do as it is not possible to be open and closed at the same time. That is also the reason why so many people have a tough time finding their soulmate.... | |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/27/2007 11:08:34 AM | Very well said, Flamesoflove, very well said indeed.
To the thread:
The irony is that people who have been wounded in one manner or another often become so over-focused on protecting themselves that they lose sight, IMO, of how beautiful life really is.
I have often been the subject of criticism for wearing my heart on my sleeve as though by doing so, I invite the very experiences that have caused me great pain. And there was a time I did hide behind a fortress if truth be told. It changed nothing and certainly protected me from nothing. It really didn't. I don't begrudge anyone's choice in how they choose to react and respond to painful as well as seemingly devastating events in their respective lives. But know that there is a price for that as well. A huge price! BTW,
Back to:
That is also the reason why so many people have a tough time finding their soulmate....
I believe it is not so much finding one's soulmate that is the challenge, rather, that recognizing one's soulmate when they encounter him or her. If one is so focused with self-protection, they impair their ability to trust and step out in faith (not stupidity but faith). I am saying this badly (migraine day - yuk). Bottom line is that not trusting someone else has at it's root not trusting in one's own judgment. Yes - I really did write that.
There is so much about life that is beautiful and, God forbid, the most devastating event that could ever befall me (or anyone else for that matter) would be to become the "walking dead" as then, I truly will have died. I am far too stubborn to quit that easily. When a victim quits by succumbing to fear of trusting again, they have by default (IMO) given the abuser victory. Just an example of what I am trying to say.
Regardless of one's experience and or role in the cycle of abuse, use it to better who you are. Don't focus on "him" or "her" or "them". This is your walk, not theirs.
| |
|
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 7/27/2007 1:19:54 PM | | yes life is beautiful and well worth being open and I am indeed willing to change but not to the degree that I cease to be me. | |
|
|
| Page 5 of 14
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 |
|
Home
login 
