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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/13/2007 11:28:41 AM | Sadie is right! That is a fabulous profile - great gift for writing!! | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/14/2007 10:56:42 PM | Msg 24 - samhonolulu said : (And this mentality makes me shudder)
"Whatever can be said of one applies equally to the recipient.
A simple supply/demand conundrum... if there were no demand for them, they'd lose out in natural selection"
So what you're saying is along the lines of, "You got the crap beat out of you because your face slammed itself against his fist repeatedly?" "Or that bullet he fired out of the gun made that hole in you, only because you didn't move fast enough?"
Are you out of your mind? You obviously have no understanding of the "players" in such a relationship - it is all about control & the majority of abusers don't start out that way but for various reasons (alcohol, drugs, stress of life, etc) they become such.
And just so you know I was married to my abuser for a full 18 years before that side of him ever appeared. But I have no intentions of broadcasting anymore of that here but you sir, have no clue & its that attitude that allows such things to continue - no form of "natural selection" perpetuates this but ignorance does.
You should be ashamed of yourself - supply & demand, my ass...
I'm sorry OP for dragging out a soapbox & such questions as yours cannot be given a patent answer because we all (even the abusers) are individuals. Although there are similarities, red flags, shared characteristics/behaviors, many things involving a human condition just cannot have a blanket type answer... abusers have existed since the beginning & I suspect there will be abusers in the end as well...
cata
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/14/2007 11:13:22 PM | Msg 30:
Highway states that some women can be as abusive as men & he is 100% correct... abuse takes many forms & can be served up in many ways (by either gender).
cata | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/14/2007 11:34:56 PM |
What do you think?.... does an aduser go into a relationship with the intention of one day abusing that person or is it something that they are unable to control themselves and they truly do go into the relationship with the best intentions??
This wee story sums up abusive males!!!
Many years ago in deepest Africa lived a mighty hunter with his young son. One day out in the jungle he shot a leopard and found her young cub nearby. He took it home where his young son made it a pet. (Cubs are like kittens).
The hunter wanted to destroy the cub but his son implored him not to. Many times he told his son: “little leopards grow into big leopards – and big leopards kill!!” … but the boy was determined to keep his pet.
One day whilst the hunter was away the boy was playing with his pet. He tripped and grazed his knee. The baby leopard licked the wound getting his first taste of blood and promptly devoured the boy.
Abusive males are the same. Regardless of anything they might say they never change on the inside. Over the years I’ve seen too many women come unstuck by taking the abusive partner back and living to regret it. Those are painful stories from the “reality” files!!! Two I know didn’t live long after having those regrets. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/14/2007 11:45:29 PM | | once an abuser always an abuser.....they really do not think that they are doing anything wrong...and in particular with emotional abuse, which in some ways can be far worst than physical abuse,....the physical heals....but words hurt..i'm not a a big beleiver in the sticks and stones theory | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/15/2007 12:05:26 AM |
Someone told me to read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans
This is an excellent book for anyone who has been in or suspects that they are in an abusive relationship - physical or verbal | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/15/2007 12:14:41 AM |
My experience is that at the early stages of the relationship they are extremely charming to the point that it isn't something natural, becasue any healthy male would not behave like that. But this is something I learnt after getting out of the crazy. Next, they are very quick to commit, and they hang on to their preys with all their claws. I always use this comparison, that they remind me of "Dr. Jekyll, Mr Hyde". I tend to believe they can attract any sort of victim, it can be a submissive woman in nature, or somone who tends to be strong, a business professional, a politician, you name it.
I don't think any of these women believe it is attractive to be with abused man, but it takes some time to get out of the crazy, one of the reason it is so hard to get out, because they blame themselves for the anger of their partner, they are often confused, and their thinking is cloudy, also exhausted from living in hell, it isn't simple way out. They usually are able to get out, and often with help from the community. Some abusive relationship are so cunning, it takes years to figure things out.
It isn't attractive at all, just for your own records, sex is usally not a pleasant experience, because there is not intimacy. There cannot be intimacy in the relationship, when there is control.
Mona Lisa,
This is an excellent post. You've captured the essence of the development of an abusive relationship in just a few paragraphs. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/15/2007 5:18:00 AM |
once an abuser always an abuser
Not necessarily true. If one is to consider the above statement an absolute truth, then in effect one is also saying once a victim always a victim, or once an alcoholic always an alcoholic and so on. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/15/2007 5:27:42 AM | Hi, all. Thought I'd toss this out here for the signs w/o the rhetoric . I've personally learned that even w/ a Ph.D., M.D., J.D. abuse is more pervasive than we can catch on before we are being abused. Love makes us blind ...or is it what will people think?
If you suspect you are in an abusive relationship, the following are some classic warning signs to watch out for:
• You apologize and make excuses for their behavior
• You lose interest in activities that you used to enjoy
• You stop seeing friends and family members and become more isolated
• When you're together, they call you names and put you down in front of other people
• Acts extremely jealous of others who pay attention to you, especially opposite sex
• Thinks or tells you that you don't like them
• Controls your behavior, checking up on you constantly, calling and paging you, demanding to know who you've been with
• You casually mention their violent behavior, but laugh it off as a joke
• You often have unexplained injuries, or the explanations you offer don't make sense
• You see them violently lose their temper, striking or breaking objects
• Using economic power to control you
• Threatening to leave
• Making you afraid by using looks, gestures or actions
• Smashing things
• Controlling you through minimizing, denying and blaming
• Making light of the abuse and not taking your concerns about it seriously
• Continually criticizing you, calling you names, shouting at you
• Emotionally degrading you in private, but acting charming in public
• Humiliating you in private or public
• Withholding approval, appreciation or affection as punishment
These can apply to either a male or a female | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/15/2007 7:01:10 AM | an abuser has a psychiatric problem,so of course they dont go into it with good intentions,they only know one way and that is 2 abuse,having a bachelors degree in psychology i research the mind of an abuser and found it very intriguing as to why they do it,me personally i feel it is a generic inbalance | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/15/2007 9:03:29 PM | | Bluezzz hit it dead up. I have been in a few abusive (physically and at other times otherwise) relationships. I honestly believe the first guy intended it, but he was (no joke) insane/unbalanced. My two ex husbands....I honestly think they went into the relationship with the best of intentions. My first husband's abusive behavior came from an imbalance, but he's since been able to learn to control it somewhat. My second husband...quite a bit more complicated. He was fine (or at least seemed so) until I miscarried our twins (his first children)...I literally went to the hospital with one man and came home with someone I didn't know anymore. He blamed me and my three year old son, and things went downhill from there on. The abuse started the day we came home from the hospital, but prior to that, I could not have asked for a better husband. I think each person has their own "buttons" when it comes to abusive behavior, but then that's just been my experience with it. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/15/2007 10:18:18 PM | Believe it or not...some abusers not only know what they are doing, but orchestrate it precisely to get to the desired end result.
A couple examples:
*Controlling/keeping their partner
and
*The "honeymoon period" after fighting/making up
It becomes an addictive cycle for both parties involved.
It’s sad really. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 10/15/2007 10:47:01 PM | | Without a doubt it's a mental inbalance. Almost all abusers were abused as children, which damaged them forever. Even though they might think they're "okay" when they start a new relationship, they're not and the psychotic behavior will happen again with the new partner. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/7/2008 7:01:48 AM | bringing this one up to beat the inevitable new thread to start.
i have a hunch that a lot of people over 40 on here are divorced. I am sure the admin has the stats since they were posted regarding smoking and whathaveyou.
I am also thinking that many of the women( and quite a few men ) were in abusive relationship and need peace love and tranquility in their new relationships.
That would explain some things to me. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/19/2008 4:34:09 AM | to the woman who is looking for signs or clues of a potentially abusive partner.
Although this topic has many specific threads devoted to it, perhaps this one ( and one other ) should be brought up each time. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/19/2008 7:11:25 AM | Abusers typically have patterns of behavior that become entrenched over time doing those things that they see as most successful IN THEIR OWN MINDS. Most abusive people are desperately insecure but they don't deal with that because they see it as a weakness in themselves and any kind of weakness erodes their fantasy-self. Abusers tend to escalate negative behavior the more their behavior is challenged because they give less weight to self-control and far more weight to control of others. The ability to influence, control, guide, and dictate to others, in their minds, is proof that they are 'right' which solidifies their egos need to BE right all of the time. Abusers, iow, abandon reason in favor of rationalizing their own behavior and blaming others for any part of it they don't like. ( e.g. "I hit you because you said x..."...)
Once a pattern has been established, the abuser will continue on unless and until they are in therapy. No partner, love interest, friend or family member can 'fix' them. The worst abusers never get help because asking for help is anathema to them to their self-perception to begin with. They tend to leave a wake of destroyed relationships behind them from marriage to children to friends to family. And when they're old and lonely with several marriages or relationships behind them, with children who want nothing to do with them, with discarded freinds feeling the same....they will still blame their misfortune on others or 'bad luck'. Typically, this type of abuser is a narcissist or at least borderline.
Some abusers can get help and break their patterns of abuse but often not without external circumstances so shocking as to force them to confront their destructive behaviors because the evidence for it is right there, such as jail time or family court.
Wether male or female, the sooner a person who is beginning to show signs of abusiveness towards others gets involved in some kind of therapy, the greater their odds for avoiding/breaking the pattern and abandoning the tools and techniques that create so much angst and unhappiness in their world.
You do this sort of person no favors by 'hanging in there' and thinking you can help them. You can't. They need trained professionals to deal with them because personal relationships are acquired, in part, to act out their destructive behavior. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/20/2008 10:14:21 PM | | Posts' number 5 and 7 tell the story of my long marriage and overdue divorce. | |
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6345
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Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 218 | |
| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/20/2008 10:34:57 PM | Like anything else I suppose. There are many criminals from those who break speeding limits to those who kill bambies mom in a non designated season. So there you have one that has gone with intent and one that probably just lost control. One stepped out the door with intent, and the other might not even known they were doing anything wrong untill they get busted. Abusers i think work the same way. some go out with intent, other dont even know they're being messed up. Both individuals however, should be held acountable and are in the realms of controlling themselves.
People are hard to define. The majority is pretty simple if you ignore the huge numbers of exceptions to any rule. What if?
What if she was drunk before coming home and beating the crap out of me? is that an excuse? no? Controlling ones self isn't a matter of regaining control once one has flipped out. Its maintaining control over time. I wouldn't say that someone who flips the ****out them regains composure quickly is in control of themselves before or after flipping out. just because there is a calm before a storm doesn't mean there is no storm. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/20/2008 11:54:35 PM |
Most abusers do NOT abuse other men, their bosses, or their coworkers, even that guy who pisses them off at the bar.
This isn't necessarily true, at least not with the non-violent type. I used to think his behavior was saved just for the ones he loved best (namely me), but it turns out that my ex-husband is astonishingly consistent. It takes him a few years to wind up to it, but he treats everyone the same over the long haul. I've since spoken to landlords and his current wife, and even reconsidered how he talked about his bosses, and it was the same story every time. He was great at first, and the situation slowly deteriorated until they were willing to do anything or pay anything to get rid of him. He's won lawsuits this way, and gotten good recommendations from bosses. The only trail he leaves is collective shell-shock. Nobody understands what happened.
Therapy hasn't helped, either, at least not so far. The second the therapist suggests that maybe he has some serious issues going on, he quits.
And yes, like most abusers, he becomes most dangerous when one tries to leave. My attempt has cost me three years and tens of thousands of dollars in litigation that appears to have no end. Even my lawyer, who is old enough to be semi-retired, has rarely seen anything like it.
He doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. He genuinely believes he's the injuried party, that he's a nice guy who is forever being screwed over and that he's only defending himself. As far as giving him the benefit of the doubt is concerned, I've seen his psych diagnosis, and he has a serious problem, untreatable precisely because he doesn't understand that he's doing anything wrong.
Unfortunately, he has yet to do anything illegal. He's just an expensive pain in the rear to everyone who crosses his path.
I'd also like to add that it isn't just potential lovers who get sucked in, or just women. Men do, too. This is why:
I also have to disagree with the idea that abusers are less than intelligent. My ex was highly intelligent...and charming, everyone's best friend...he could play that up like you would not believe...and most abusers I have met have been the same.
My ex's IQ is above average, and he's very charming, even generous. The one person I know who caught it before she got caught up in it had no fault at all with his behavior. She just got a vibe off him that she didn't like. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/21/2008 12:16:57 AM | | It takes two hands to clap. Everyone and their dog seems to think that their partner was abusive. Look at yourself sometimes. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/21/2008 12:41:28 AM |
It takes two hands to clap. Everyone and their dog seems to think that their partner was abusive. Look at yourself sometimes.
I did. Got therapy and stuck with it.
Something else I'd like to add, for the ones suggesting that women just run at the first sign or opportunity, many women who stay with abusers are being wise. It's when a woman leaves that she's most likely to be badly injured or killed.
Abusers need to do whatever it is they do. It's not an amusement for them. When the source of gratification threatens to walk, the abuser will usually escalate their behavior in order to keep their partner, and it's the escalation that can maim or kill. Once it all starts, getting out can be very, very dangerous.
In my case, the issue isn't my life but my bank balance. My ex uses money instead of his fists, and if he can't withhold the money personally, he'll drain it some other way. It's all perfectly legal. All he has to do is keep contesting everything the court requires of him, which means I have to keep paying my lawyer, plus whatever professionals my ex deems necessary to argue his case, like psychologists and arbitrators. Those costs are born equally by the parties involved. As he makes almost three times what I do, this can go on for quite a while.
What makes it worth it is that I no longer have to share a roof with him. However, if he were physically violent, I might reconsider that attitude. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/22/2008 5:40:28 AM | I absolutely agree with tick tock's post and kudos to onlyforumsonly for:
I did. Got therapy and stuck with it.
As in some of my earlier posts in this thread, when the day is done it does take two to tango. There are many men and women survivors that don't become abusers but do become victims. So as some seem inclined to project that childhood abuse is indicative that the man (or woman) is an abuser by virtue of that element, is a very subjective judgment at best. To climb into the mind of an abuser and generalize for the purpose of avoiding involvement with an abuser, is not an effective tool (IMO) to avoid them. Red flags from the potential victim's perspective are as individualized as the elements that drive the abuser. Red flags do not always indicate there should be avoidance, but absolutely demand that one needs to dig deeper and slow it down at the onset, not after the fact.
There are a lot of subjective judgments in this thread, certainly influenced by respective personal experiences as well as relevant to the stage of healing the victim survivor is at the time, one's readiness to accept personal responsibility and ownership for not seeing what was right there all along from the first moment, and so forth. I also see a propensity to assess the abuser's mind from a healthy mind perspective and that is simply not possible as the mind of the abuser is in such a distorted reality that a healthy mind cannot fathom. And guess what? So is the victims' - yet projected out differently.
Of more importance than trying to understand the mind of the abuser to avoid involvement with such individuals, of more value (IMO) is, as a survivor, identifying within one's self what "your" vulnerabilities are that made you attractive to the abuser(s) and attracted "you" to the abuser(s) in the first place. It's part of the healing process, part of taking your life back, and so much more. To those who have not experienced an abusive relationship, I would say only this. Rather than judge the victim that stays, which only keeps that victim more a hostage than he/she already is, be part of the support system that opens doors rather than closes them for the victim to leave the situation. Unless one is a fly on the wall within the specific relationship, one is not qualified to judge either victim or abuser. Yet anyone is qualified to offer support if nothing else, not condescension but real support that strengthens rather than weakens - even if it is only an ear to listen.
I witnessed an interesting phenomena in my brother's first marriage. Oh he most assuredly was an abuser back then. But so was his wife - only differently and often, she would deliberately push his buttons to elicit the very abuse she complained of. Interestingly, over the course of years, my brother was able to turn himself around and no longer engages in abusive behaviors. Contributing to his wounds from childhood was the ADHD which, in his case, significantly impaired his impulse control as well as other things. While he may well be an anomaly, he is also was able to turn himself around and has enjoyed a healthy marriage with a wonderful woman for many years now. So it is possible for an abuser to change, but that is not the victim's responsibility to effect that change in the abuser, any more than it is the responsibility of the abuser or anyone else to do the work for the victim to not be a victim anymore.
It's so easy to be on the outside looking in on this topic and make assumptions, even with the best of intentions. Yet, when the day is done, there are no absolutes in assessing the mind of the abuser or even victim as each individual situation is as uniquely different as the patterns in snowflakes - no two are alike. Red flags are like cautions...those cautions are going to be different for everyone. All it means is step back, look at the whole picture, "investigate" before you leap in full throttle. In other words, use all of one's senses to make a balanced choice rather than an emotionally needy choice. IMO
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/22/2008 6:35:26 AM | An abuser makes one or more test runs before the settle into their "new position."
If you look for these "test runs" and are honest w/ yourself about what you are looking for in a relationship, you should be able to spot an abuser/loser and avoid them easily.
If you don't or aren't able to avoid them.....it's likely that this is type of relationship that you are seeking. | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/22/2008 8:09:30 AM | | speaking from the vantage point of having lived with an abuser for 16 years, i am going to say with total conviction....they have no clue that they are abusers. whether they are intentionally not owning it or they truly dont think they are wrong in their actions remains to be seen. my husband had me convinced that i was the one who was wrong, stupid, and just plain worthless. sad thing is i believed him. took me a while to figure out that even an idiot had to be right once in a blue moon. i could do exactly what he asked and do exactly how he said and i would still be wrong. even now that we are separated and living apart( our two children live with me) he still tries to control everything, still tries to be emotionally abusive and still thinks he can come "home" whenever he wants. guess the order of protection and all the court appearances havent given him a clue that his abusive, cheating,lying ways are no longer an "attractive" trait. or maybe he hasnt quite grasped the fact the him living with his girlfriend kinda makes me not want to have him in my life.....funny how that could just slip right past him!!! lol but seriously...he doesnt think he has ever done anything wrong and there isnt anything that he doesnt know...weird how he is the smartest man in the world and he settled on just being a cop instead of the next bill gates or albert einstein. lol | |
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| The mind of an abuser
Posted: 2/22/2008 8:48:13 AM | | babycay; You might ask yourself if a victim enters a relationship with the intent of being abused. Consider your own motives with regard to who you tend to be attracted to. There are plenty of people who view others as objects to be taken advantage of and you cannot change them but if you can recognize your own vulnerabilities you might stand a better chance of avoiding this kind of thing happening to you again. | |
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