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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 7/31/2007 2:09:51 PM | | Boxing IS FIXED. Boxers and their promoters pick and choose fights which set up $$ match-ups. And boxers often duck guys who can beat them. Because UFC is more self contained there is much less "fight shopping". watch the way various promoters dance their fighter through a field of bums to get to the payday fight. If not fixed, arranged for maximum $$. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 7/31/2007 5:23:01 PM | Whole 9:
Oh, please! Boxing is a career - of course managers try to get the most money for the least risk. That is their job - to make the most for their fighter that they can. Yes, guys are brought up the rankings by fighting no-hopers in a lot of cases. But you can't tell me that the big fights don't get made. That is just ridiculous. Try to name a big fight that didn't happen because of politics. There aren't that many.
And you can't honestly believe that boxers are too afraid to take certain fights. If they were, they wouldn't be in the sport in the first place. Look at Barerra. He is getting ready to face off against a guy who destroyed him a short time ago (Pacquiao). Morales took 3 fights against him, as well. Look at a guy like Oscar DeLaHoya, who so many fans called "chicken" for years. Well, that "chicken" wasn't afraid to take fights against Tito Trinidad, Mosley (twice), Quartey, Ruelas, Pernell Whittaker, Bernard Hopkins and Floyd Mayweather, to name a few.
Fighters want to fight each other. Bottom line. To say otherwise is completely ignorant.
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/1/2007 1:42:51 PM | Boxing is a dying sport.
I watched the Matweather vs. Delahoya fight and it was AWFUL.
at the end, neither of them were sweating. No bruises, no cuts. The fight was hyped up because boxing needed an injection and it dissapointed big time. I think it actually turned more people on to UFC, where you'll watch two no names battle it out for a W. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/1/2007 3:36:56 PM | Boxing is dying? How so?
The fight you mentioned sold out in a couple of hours and broke all PPV records. I was at Erik Morales' last fight. The place was packed with 20,000 plus people, and it was louder than a rock concert in there. Tickets were going on the black market for thousands! Sounds like boxing is doing OK to me.
Boxing is not dying at all. That is not to say that MMA hasn't caught fire in a big way, and I am glad that it has. I like both sports, and am happy that there is room for both. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/2/2007 3:18:47 PM | there's so much trash talking bullshit about how a boxer would beat up a guy in mma. i give respect for boxers...i am a fan but from doing both boxing and mma there is such a slim chance that a boxer would win against a mixed martial artist. boxing is only limited to one style: punching....and ya they definatley do have way better hands than any mma competitor out there. that being said, thats all a boxer has...put him in a ring against a well rounded martial artist and he will get reamed....first of all there's kick defense...boxing stance is bunk to protect from a leg kick...a boxer would never get in close enough to be able to land a punch before his leg is taken out from a muay thai kick...or a liver shot from a front kick....then theres take down defense....obviously a boxer has none and can't defend himself from a wrestler...look at the fight between Ali and Inoki....originally it was to be a no holds barred fight....but ali watched Inoki wrestle and knew he couldn't stand a chance against him so he changed the rules to striking only. Inoki only shot in with leg kicks so he wouldn't get punched. Ali only threw 6 punches...and even though it was a "worked fight", Ali left without a press conference and suffered damage to his legs as a result of Inoki's repeated leg kicks. Boxers like Oscar DelaHoya and Roy Jones Junior are even advocates of mma stating that they would be ruined by a mixed martial artist. Boxer's are not versed in submissions either and would tap at the thought of an armbar, omaplata, or rear naked choke. For all of you who think that mma has a bunch of quitters because they tap and don't finish fight like boxers do...it's different circumstances: if you are caught in a submission your arm/leg/spine can become so damaged if you do not tap, you can lose mobility forever and there goes your career.
MMA may seem barbaric and not have as much noble history as boxing, but we clearly see mma being held at the anciet greece olympic along side boxing. It was a form of free fighting called pankration, where the only rules were no biting, fish hooking or eye gouging...much like mma today. The fight would be won by submissions/chokes/fist strikes causing knockouts. It is the 2500 year old predecessor to modern mixed martial arts competition. modern mma does not allow standing counts as boxing does...repeated standups can lead to brain damage as you see with many boxers, and as soon as someone is struck and can no longer defend themselves mma referees stop the fight before risking brain damage. For those of you who think kicking is for pussies, a proper kick generates more power than a punch....longer limb, more leverage from using larger muscle groups, and stronger bones in the leg leads to less injury than a punch and therefore kicks are able to be performed over and over without the risk of breaking a hand. And yes....many fighters do break they're hands in mma and DO finsish the fight like a champ...middleweight champion rich frankling broke his hand in the first round during a title defense and went 4 more 5 minute rounds before winning the fight, plus it's easier to do so as the gloves only weigh 4 ounces.
i'm not trying to rag on boxing...i love boxing and always will, but please have knowledge and consideration before commenting on mixed martial arts...what i feel as someone who has done some boxing and is currently a mixed martial artist is a lack of respect for martial arts...it's like if someone came on this forum and said that they thought tyson was the greatest boxer around and could take ali and is still the current champ.....ignorence and arrogance....it goes hand in hand
heres a list for those who contest the skill level in mma
Olympic and World Competetors in MMA.
Kevin Jackson NCAA National Champion in Wrestling
Matt Lindland Olympic Silver Medalist in Wrestling
Eldari Kurtanidze Olympic Bronze Medalist in Wrestling
Hidehiko Yoshida Olympic Gold Medalist in Judo
Rulon Gardner Olympic Gold Medalist in Wrestling
Karam Ibrahim Olympic Gold Medalist in Wrestling
Naoya Ogawa Olympic Silver Medalist in Judo
Pawel Nastula Olympic Gold Medalist in Judo
Yoshihiro Akiyama Olympic Gold Medalist in Judo
Dan Henderson Olympic Alternate in Wrestling
Josh Koschek 4X All American NCAA Wrestler/Undefeated Nat. Champion
Randy Couture Olympic Alternate Greco Roman Wrestler
Mark Coleman Olympic Wrestler
Matt Hamill Double Gold Medalist Deaf Olympic Champion Wrestler
Min Soo Kim Olympic Silver Medalist Judo
Karo Parisyan 3rd ranking Judo in world
Mark Schultz Olympic Gold Medalist Wrestler | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/3/2007 10:45:41 AM | even if it was ruled a boxing match, the mma guy would still win with boxing rules, gloves and everything.
no doubt about it. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/10/2007 12:48:51 PM | ummmm $50k? dude that's what the prelim fighters make...randy couture made $250k for his fight agianst liddell a couple years ago and got a portion of the ppv so his revenue was all in all is close to a million made at least that.....most likely more for his title defense.....these guys aren't poor...it's just an up and coming sport which is just starting to make big money....and takes away longevity? dude do you even do martial arts?? randy is in his mid 40's...better shape than a lot of boxers out there, my sensei is 47 and just won silver at a grappling tournament with over 2000 competitors....randy just beat a man who is 6'8" and has repeatedly proven himself against boxers.....ya it is sad that sean sherk roided...but so what...there's been at least two incidents in boxing this year where heavyweights have tested positive for roids....it's like any sport
talking about kermit cintron....he's not only a straight boxer....he used to be a state champion wrestler...if he trained seriously for an mma fight for 6 months he'd be good....still wouldn't win against a champ...but he'd still be great.....by that token though cintron wouldn't be a boxer any more...he'd be an mma fighter with a boxing background same with any boxer that came into mma....they would no longer be a boxer....and when you talk about poor boxing skills....it's usually not straight boxing they practice...it's thai boxing...different hand positions/technique makes it easier to set up kicks and knees...plus different technique since the gloves are only 4 ounces....dude i don't mind that you don't like mixed martial arts but you just need to know facts before you throw out wild accusations | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/11/2007 8:54:50 PM | This thread must be a joke. Yes I respect boxers who are in the sport, but mma is much more technical and will take more out of you than boxing will hence the rounds are shorter and the fighting is more intense and fun to watch.
As others have said, most boxing is fixed and I find it boring to watch.
Although I like watching kickboxing because they have so many variables. | |
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M.I.
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Joined: 2/2/2007
Msg: 87 | |
| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/12/2007 3:19:26 AM | MMA does not compare itself to boxing, -- however, both are great sports in their own ways.
But -- MMA rocks, and and it must be considered it is still in it's early days of development compared to boxing. You get the best of both worlds: striking AND grappling. Much more talent to put the two together! The training and the endurance of the pheno athletes is awesome...it's only getting better each year. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/13/2007 6:10:37 PM | The only thing you've said in this entire post is found in the subject line: UFC cannot compare itself to boxing. Trying to compare the two as equals is a mistake like trying to compare apples and freight trains. They are two very different beasts.
Notice how your argument is quite silly. You caim that boxing is better than the UFC because no UFC fighter could make it into the top tiers in boxing. However, you neglect to draw the inference that boxing must suck because no boxer could make it into the top tier of the UFC. Again, comparing the two is a major mistake.
Think of it in terms of a triathalon versus a marathon. Most of the people who succeed in marathons probably wouldn't do well in a triathalon. This is because those who compete in marathons are more specialized. They train to run long distances, and that's it. They become very good at running long distances, but not as great at swimming or cycling.
However, someone who competes in triathalons, despite his inability to become an elite marathon runner, has the added pressure of having to gain proficiency not only at running, but also swimming and cycling. It is very difficult to become of superior caliber in all three of these events. Specialized swimmers will top triathalon athletes, and Lance Armstrong will top any triathalon athletes, as well. This doesn't take anything way from the sport, though. It just shows that it requires more diverse mastery of more skills, instead of a complete and utterly superb mastery of a single skill.
As far as the punching goes in the UFC, you have to remember that a lot of these guys aren't trying to box. When they DO throw punches, they aren't trying to land technical, crisp shots that get them ahead on points. A guy like Hermes Franca, who has excellent ground skills but not so great stand-up, throws wild haymakers on his feet for obvious reasons--he will get dominated in a technical boxing match, and he's just hoping to land a lucky punch while on the feet. If he doesn't land the lucky punch, then he takes the person to the ground. That's good strategy--he's playing to his strength, and maximizing the chances of getting a lucky knockout while avoiding getting into a technical boxing match that he would surely lose.
You also have to remember that the boxing style in MMA is much different for the simple reason that a traditional boxing style leaves one vulnerable to takedowns. You can't sit in the pocket in a normal boxing stance against a guy who's looking to slam you to the ground. That's why Tyson would lose an MMA match. And that's also why an MMA guy--whose instincts tell him to guard against kicks, takedowns, and other aspects of a fight you wouldn't find in boxing--would lose in a boxing match to one of the top fighters.
A boxer has the edge on fitness? I doubt that. The guys in MMA train harder than any other athlete, because they have to master so many different skills. Let's call that one even. Boxers have better defense? Not if you're talking about ground defense! They'd get taken down at will with that traditional stance! Ring craft? Have you seen the way Liddell uses the cage to get up from dangerous positions on the ground? The cage presents plenty of opportunities for craftiness. And in PRIDE, you get the same sort of thing, seeing as how it is in a ring.
Anyway, I think you should educate yourself about mixed martial arts before attempting to ridicule it. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/13/2007 6:18:22 PM |
Throw him in the Octagon with Mirko Cro Cop and see how long Tyson lasts after taking that left kick right to the head..
Tyson could actually probably beat Cro Cop. Boxers have a good stance for blocking high kicks, so unless Cro Cop went insane on him with blistering leg kicks, the match would probably go in Tyson's favor. (It's not like Cro Cop would put him on the ground!)
A better match-up showcasing two of the best would be Fedor versus Tyson. Fedor would hands-down obliterate Tyson after dropping him on his head and then beating the crap out of him from guard. Or you could even match him up with Big Nog, who's a world-class boxer and an even better ground-artist. Tyson would have his arm broken in seconds against Nog. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/13/2007 8:36:50 PM | Boxing is such an out of date fighting style. No Boxers can make it in the UFC unless they have Judo, Kickboxing, or Muay Thai skills mixed in there when it comes to striking. These new breed of fighters are coming in there with boxing, kickboxing, Judo, Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsi skills. These are phenomal athletes with insane mixed fighting skills. No Profesional boxer would last 1 round against any of these guys.
Boxing is boring and way too one dimensional. UFC is killing it right now for one reason. MORE ACTION and these guys actually go out there and fight each other.
If any pro boxer were to step into the octogon JUST using his boxing skills, he would get destroyed. He'd get takin' down and get pummeled or submitted. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/14/2007 3:06:40 AM | | screw boxing. any arguement about an mma guy in a boxing match is stupid. how about any boxer vs Fedor in a fight? not mma, not boxing, a fight. it wouldnt even be fun to watch. if you don't see boxing is dieing then your just too old and have your head in the sand. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/14/2007 8:00:48 PM |
If UFC fighters are so great then why don't they come over to boxing and make millions ? They wouldn't dare !!! I don't know anyone who would turn down the chance to make millions. The reason is because they would be outclassed by even a mediocre boxer. Failed boxers go in to UFC and become champions. Would a failed UFC fighter become a boxing champ ? I think not. UFC fighters are just a jack of all trades master of none. Sure if a top UFC fighter was to clash with top boxer in an octagon then UFC would most likely win but he would ONLY win once it got on to the ground so he can do choke hold. A monkey can do a choke hold.
99 times out of a hundred the MMA fighter would take the fight to the ground and GnP the boxer or sub him. And what failed boxer has gone to the UFC and become champion? Clearly you don't know anything about what it takes to be a top level BJJ practitioner like Ronaldo Jacare, Roger Gracie, Xande Ribiero or Marcelo Garcia. If you think that anyone can do chokes, then by all means walk yourself down to the local MMA club in your area and choke out their top black belt.
No UFC fighter past, present or future could beat top class boxer in the ring, but I don't about you guys but I wouldn't be supremely confident of a Chuck Liddel or who ever his name is or any other top UFC guy beating a young peak Mike Tyson in an octagon. Ask yourself this
Do you think a boxer could beat a top level Judo practitioner at Judo? Of course not, so why do you make such silly comparisons? Fact is, even Liddel, with limited BJJ and decent wrestling would take Tyson down 99 times out of 100 and DESTROY him on the ground.
[qoute]Which fighter is the most likely to win both fights ? Me , personally, I think it would be 1-1. I do think Liddel would beat Tyson in octagon but I'm only 55/45 on that but in the ring then obviously its a 100/0 on tyson
Tyson would win at boxing. Liddel would win at MMA. Why are you having so much trouble understanding this?
A boxer has the edge on fitness levels, defence, stamina, ring craft etc boxers have to be prepared to fight for 12 rounds. UFC fights rarely go the distance. They have no fitness, no stamina. When you watch their punches they are just sloppy and it just looks like street fight at times and that's what UFC is a STREET FIGHT.
So you have been working at a top level fitness institute testing and comparing boxers and MMA fighter have you? I mean you must have been, to be able to make this claim without a shred of evidence. The truth is most top level MMA fighters are at the elite level of fitness. Having raced motocross for years I can attest to that. Martial Arts are right up there with the most demanding sports there are. If you think MMA fighters have no fitness or stamina then by all means, go to your local MMA club and train with them for a while instead of talking. Do 45 minutes straight grappling on the ground with a black belt in BJJ. Or an hour straight of wrestling takedowns with a strong wrestler. Or better yet do some MMA sparring. By the way; Pride championship bouts have a 10 minute first round and two more 5 minute rounds.
Either this post is a joke or you are the biggest fool in the universe. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/14/2007 8:23:04 PM |
Why don't MMA or UFC fighters ever try there hand at boxing ? There is more money to made in boxing, more prestige, more world wide recognition, more fame, more glory......more everything. The reason is because if they did it would set the sport of UFC or MMA back years, for they would get thoroughly embarrassed. Look at the physique of a Chuck Liddell. He is supposed to one the best guys in UFC, yet he come fat and over weight. UFC fighters only have a two week training camp. Top boxers have 6 week training camps. The fitness levels required for boxing far and away exceed that of UFC or MMA.
Because there really isn't more money to be made. If that were true how come Mike Tyson is broke now? How many past boxing champions are destitute because they were ripped off by promoters? Promoters in boxing take all the money and often leave fighters with very little. Prestige? You mean a sport with so many fixed decisions has prestige? What prestige? Boxing lost ALL of its prestige long ago. Also if you undertsood anything about conditioning you would know that appearances are deceiving. Fedor Emilianenko doesn't look cut but he's a circus freak of strength and conditioning. And where did you get this two week training camp crap? MMA fighters are ALWAYS working super hard on some aspect of their training whether it's BJJ, wrestling or standup. They train year round. And again, instead of talking out of your behind why don't you provide evidence that boxing requires a higher level of fitness?
Come over to boxing if you dare !!!
Yes, come join a corrupt sport where you can get ripped of by your promoters/managers, left with brain damage and destitute. Sounds like some kind of fun eh?
Let’s see how good when you can’t run at someone like a monkey and do a choke hold on him. Lets see what your like 8 and 9th round of hard fight, lets see if you can take punch after punch for round after round, lets see if you can't get cut and still carry on fighting, let see how good your footwork is, how sharp your reflexes are, let's see how hard you hit. UFC is just for guys who can’t box or boxers who are past the prime. I reckon if the heavyweight boxing champ Klitschko came into UFC he would kick a_r_s_e and I don’t really rate klitschko !!!
I don't see you going to your local MMA club and proving what you claim. By the way MANY MMA fighters have been BADLY cut and beaten up and fought to the end. Try googling the David Loiseau-Rich Franklin fight for an example of real courage. One look at Loisueas face will prove you have no idea what you are talking about.
And for the record Fedor would utterly anihilate Klitshcko in an NHB fight. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/15/2007 12:09:08 PM | Boxing, while the sweet science is just one aspect of MMA...making MMA a superior sport in my books. There are many MMA stars who also fight pro boxing matches...Jens Pulver, Lil Nogeira, Alessio Sakara... to name a few.
For the record...Boxers who try to transition to MMA without training always get their asses handed to them...in fact didn't Mayweather talk some smack until LW champ Sean Sherk showed up to challenge him...then he was all nicey nice.
Anyone who trains knows you're going to get hit while closing the distance...you train for that and then tap, nap or snap the poor big glove wearing fool...
MMA>Boxing. Period. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/15/2007 12:45:19 PM |
dude that's what the prelim fighters make...randy couture made $250k for his fight agianst liddell a couple years ago and got a portion of the ppv so his revenue was all in all is close to a million made at least that
Ummmmm that would be a NO. Prelim mma fighters make less often times. Yes, Couture is alleged to have made around 1 million however that rubber match was an EXCEPTION rather than a rule. The point is that boxers make about 10xs what MMA fighters make,hence few if any, cross over in their prime. I can think of 2 boxers off the top of my head who got $30 million for a single fight.
it's usually not straight boxing they practice...it's thai boxing Doesn't matter, their boxing skills are most often still POOR.
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dude i don't mind that you don't like mixed martial arts but you just need to know facts before you throw out wild accusations   Read my post, where did I state that I didn't like mma? I call it like I see it. Most mma fighters have poor boxing skills. NONE would make it as boxers. Cintron would however beat any mma figher in his weight class. What "wild accusations"? Everything I posted is true.
And for the record Fedor would utterly anihilate Klitshcko in an NHB fight.
I disagree. I believe Fedor is without question the best mma fighter in the world right now. He is a beast. However, he is beatable. I've seen him knocked down by a single punch. Vitali Klitshscko could land that punch with more power than Fedor has ever been hit with. VK also would have a HUGE reach advantage to go along with a big striking power advantage. VK was a Muay Thai fighter as well. Fedor would HAVE to bring VK to the ground to win. On the ground against Fedor VK would tap out regardless of amount of training. Still, there is a very GOOD punchers chance that VK could catch Fedor coming in or backing up suffeciently to knock him out. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/15/2007 3:10:22 PM | Well you are definitely wrong about fitness levels.
every where you train is different, but i trained at a cage fighting place for years and i have all so trained at 2 different boxing clubs and the cage fighting club was hands down a lot tougher for fitness and they pushed you alot harder.
But as i say it depends where you train.
That is just my experience and opinion. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/15/2007 6:50:45 PM | Prelim UFC fighters make around 3-5k plus hotel etc. The word is that they get looked after on the side as well. The big money comes when you're able to get PPV shares and sponsorships...not really much different than a jouneyman boxer makes before he reaches the heights of a Trinidad or Hatton.
Boxing, it should be noted, is not always a good stand up art. If you're used to wading into the pocket to exchange with those big pillows on your hands...and a guy like Fedor...or Anderson Silva grabs you in a Thai clinch you're going to schooled or dropped on your head. These guys don't stand in the pocket...just like early bare knuckle fighters(boxers) didn't either. In short...the gloves backfire on you.
And I can guarantee that as good as Vitale is...he wants NO part of Fedor....nobody does...and for good reason. Boxing had better clean up it's affairs before Dana White sends it into the dark ages. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/18/2007 4:54:49 PM | MAA fighters can't strike with boxers? Hmmmmmm:
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=22476&cat=boxer
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=14884
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=249847&cat=boxer
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=262
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=249447&cat=boxer
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=1301
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=256828&cat=boxer
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=228
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=121346&cat=boxer
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=267
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=4763&cat=boxer
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=20334
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=14536&cat=boxer
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=9394 | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 8/29/2007 3:56:02 PM | | Im a fan of both sports but it seems people are overestimating the talent of mma fighters. Its true that if a boxer approached a mma fight like a boxing match he'd lose, but saying that a top ranked boxer couldnt learn a simple take down defense and keep the fight on his feet similar to how Chuck Liddell handles grapplers is dumb. For the most part the top mma fighters are strikers because more often than not in a match between a striker and a grappler the striker usually comes out the winner.As far as showing a bunch of has been and never were boxers losing in mma fights I say what are you proving? that someone that shouldnt be fighting anymore lost a fight. And as far as Cro cop or Fedor beating Mike Tyson in a fight since we cant get a time machine and bring back Tyson in his prime it really shouldnt be mentioned. | |
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