| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 5:53:31 AM | However, now that the shoe is on the other foot, you seem to think it is a non-issue.
Now you know how American's feel.
This particular article states that he hitchhiked to the border. Who would pick him up? I mean especially if the implements he was carrying were dripping with blood.
They stopped him at the broder for 2 hours, checked for warrents, finger printed him and seized the objects. The have certain rules and regulation they have to go by. Since he was a US citizen and nothing to hold him on they had to let him go. He hadn't violated any regulation at that time.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/08/national/main700325.shtml | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 7:38:29 AM |
They checked for warrants, and found NONE
Obviously they didn't try too hard. Any call to the police would have resulted in them being told that the guy was due in court that day. Due in court, that is, for threatening to kill his neighbour.
That plus the fresh blood on the swords and chainsaw might lead to an obvious conclusion, don't you think?
What part don't you understand?
I'm asking you the same question... | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 7:44:00 AM | He hadn't violated any regulation at that time.
He had just KILLED two people! While the customs agents had no way of knowing this at the time, simple correlation with the RCMP would have suggested to them that this was a violent psycopath they had on their hands.
Add a violent psycopath to an equation with bloody swords and chainsaws, and what sort of picture do you get? Think maybe it would have been worth detaining him and checking things out rather than let him go after a mere 2 hours?
The US has had people in Gitmo for more than 4 years now without pressing charges against them.. The folks that are arguing that it was all right to let this psycho through the border are the same people saying the situation at Guantanamo is okay... I don't get it.
Now you know how American's feel.
You're going to have to explain that one.... | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 8:26:58 AM | They questioned him for 2 hours, finger printed him and took the implements. You can't arrest someone if you have nothing to charge him with.
He hitchhiked to the border crossing. Who would pick him up?
Anthony said Despres was questioned for two hours before he was released. During that time, he said, customs agents employed "every conceivable method" to check for warrants or see if Despres had broken any laws in trying to re-enter the country.
Fulton's daughter found her father's body two days later. His car was later found in a gravel pit on a highway leading to the U.S. border. Despres hitchhiked to the border crossing.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050608/ap_on_re_us/chain_saw_border
Now you know how American's feel. You're going to have to explain that one....
I'm just saying that it works both ways. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 9:25:07 AM | During that time, he said, customs agents employed "every conceivable method" to check for warrants or see if Despres had broken any laws in trying to re-enter the country.
I guess they couldn't conceive of calling the police, eh? Of course the spokesman for the customs agent is going to say something like that. The agents knew about the 20 year old charge for dope possession that the fellow next in line had - you're telling me that they couldn't find out that this psycho was in the middle of a criminal case and was due in court?
No, he didn't have any warrants against him.. Only because he was in the middle of criminal proceedings.. There *are* records kept of that as well, if you bother to try to find out.
Plus, and I can't keep hammering this enough, this freaks weapons were covered in blood.. Hello!! Even without checking for warrants I can bet that a guy trying to cross a border carrying bloody weapons might have been up to something...
Butchers don't usually use chainsaws and swords for work purposes, and I can't think of any other legitimate profession where you'd end the day covered in red goo...
>>Who would pick him up?
People picking up hitch-hikers don't normally subject them to the same scrutiny that customs officials apply to border-crossers.. At least, I've never been body-cavity searched while thumbing a ride..
I'm just saying that it works both ways.
Again, you're going to have to explain.. If you're trying to claim that terrorists have crossed the border into the States from Canada, then I'm going to have to ask you to provide an example... | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 9:45:12 AM | Why are you making things up. It was stated that Americans are giving Canada a hard time about things. I just replyed that Canada gives American's a hard time too about things. I indicated nothing about Canada letting terrorists in the US. Don't start something that isn't even being talked about. This infuriates me. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 10:57:14 AM |
Why are you making things up. It was stated that Americans are giving Canada a hard time about things. I just replyed that Canada gives American's a hard time too about things. I indicated nothing about Canada letting terrorists in the US. Don't start something that isn't even being talked about. This infuriates me.
I am the one who made the statement you refer to. My point was that the US government and some of the people blasted Canada about who we let into the country, and then seem to think there is nothing wrong with letting into their own country somebody who has obviously done something wrong.
Again carrying a bloody chain saw. Who would pick a person up?
You keep mentioning this, but I do not know what the importance of it is. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 12:23:05 PM | I misunderstood you then. My reply had nothing to do with Canada letting terrorists in.
Bloody saw. Well it keeps getting indicated that the custom officers should have taken into account a bloody saw as to check furthur on this guy.
It was mentioned how bloody the saw was.
I'm just stating that if it was so bloody then why would someone pick this guy up. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 1:06:39 PM | I'm just stating that if it was so bloody then why would someone pick this guy up.
A: I was under the impression that the stolen car was ditched just before the border. If that was the case, then it would have been a real short hoof to get to customs, where he arrived on foot. I'm not entirely sure anyone picked him up at all - the newspapers are vague.
B: If someone *did* pick him up, maybe he just caught a lift in the back of a truck. Happens all the time, and the driver wouldn't even see the guy except for the first exchange where he asked for a ride. Since the chainsaw was slung over his shoulder, if this was the scenario then I doubt the driver would have even seen it.
C: The swords were stowed away in a backpack, apparently. So unless the driver searched the guy, he wouldn't have seen those. The chainsaw could have been dumped in the back-seat of any ride quickly, before the driver saw it. Or more likely, stowed in the trunk or back of the truck.. I know I wouldn't want someone I was giving a lift to to be toting a saw in my vehicle.. Again, if this was the case then the driver most likely didn't see it...
Or any one of a thousand other possible scenarios. Like I said, people stopping to pick hitchhikers up don't usually put them through the same paces you go through when passing customs.
The chainsaw was bloody. This is fact. It was bloody enough to be noteworthy to reporters writing the story. It was bloody enough to be obvious to the guy standing next in line. It should have been bloody enough to make the customs agents think... | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 2:07:06 PM |
"Nobody asked us to detain him," Anthony said. "Being bizarre is not a reason to keep somebody out of this country or lock them up. ... We are governed by laws and regulations, and he did not violate any regulations."
Anthony conceded it "sounds stupid" that a man wielding what appeared to be a bloody chain saw could not be detained. But he added: "Our people don't have a crime lab up there. They can't look at a chain saw and decide if it's blood or rust or red paint."
Sgt. Gary Cameron of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police would not comment on whether it was, in fact, blood on the chain saw. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 9:53:59 PM | What do you expect the spokespeople for the customs agents are going to say?
What do you expect the RCMP to say when the case is still pending?
Are you going to deny that if the guy was of middle-eastern descent, things might have worked out a little differently? | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 10:20:39 PM | Are you going to deny that if the guy was of middle-eastern descent, things might have worked out a little differently?
Are you trying to say that the US discriminates against people that are middle eastern descent? | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 10:20:59 PM | Are you going to deny that if the guy was of middle-eastern descent, things might have worked out a little differently?
I'll leave the fortune-telling, and precognition, to you conspiracy theorists out there. You go ahead and play the "What if?" game all you want, but leave me out.
It seems pretty clear what happened. Crazy dude is caught at the border with weapons. Customs holds him for two hours trying to find ANY reason to hold the guy. No warrants, and no reason to hold him means that *gasp* THEY FOLLOWED THE LETTER OF THE LAW.
Coati: I'm not sure why someone who pretends to be so opposed to the Patriot Act, is so in favor of holding a fellow Canadian without cause, in this case. It appears as though you're being an opportunist, and declaring one thing "bad" when you disagree with whose doing it, and the same thing "good" when you want it to forward your agenda. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 10:56:05 PM |
No warrants, and no reason to hold him means that *gasp* THEY FOLLOWED THE LETTER OF THE LAW.
No warrant other than the warrant you already mentioned, which although no longer active, would still be in public records. And no reason other than the court date scheduled for the same day, which would also be in public records. There is a good chance that given two hours and internet access, I could have discovered these things, and I do not have the training or the resources of a border guard.
Coati: I'm not sure why someone who pretends to be so opposed to the Patriot Act, is so in favor of holding a fellow Canadian without cause, in this case. It appears as though you're being an opportunist, and declaring one thing "bad" when you disagree with whose doing it, and the same thing "good" when you want it to forward your agenda.
As I mentioned before, a person can be detained if there is reasonable and probable cause. Possession of a bloody chainsaw would certainly qualify for that criteria. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 11:13:46 PM |
No warrant other than the warrant you already mentioned, which although no longer active, would still be in public records.
.... So, a warrant that was issued, in the past, is automatic grounds to hold someone at the border indefinitely, and imprisonment? That's outright lunacy. THINK.
There is a good chance that given two hours and internet access, I could have discovered these things, and I do not have the training or the resources of a border guard.
Ok. You have two hours to pull up this guys warrant, and court appearance date. Prove me wrong, and go to town. I intend to hold this over you for a long time to come.  | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 11:29:36 PM | I said I would discover these things, not pull up the actual documents. Anyways, it is done, all you have to do is google his name, then search within results for 'court case' and 'warrant'. Lots of results.
What was that, twenty minutes? | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 11:33:14 PM | | LOL! So, all that Customs had to do, was let him through, get the news agencies to pick up the story, spread it around on the internet, and they would then have ample information to hold him? I KNEW you were going to do this, and you didn't fail me. Thanks. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 11:38:05 PM |
LOL! So, all that Customs had to do, was let him through, get the news agencies to pick up the story, spread it around on the internet, and they would then have ample information to hold him?
Or, they could have looked at the already known information about his previous warrant, and scheduled court date.
I KNEW you were going to do this, and you didn't fail me. Thanks
You knew I was going to prove my point? Thanks for the vote of confidence. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/10/2005 11:42:39 PM |
Or, they could have looked at the already known information about his previous warrant, and scheduled court date.
You failed to prove that the information could be obtained by you, over the 'net like you said. Why? You do realize that the information you said you found was the direct result of letting him in the US in the first place? You do realize that for the Customs agents to have acces to this info at the time, they would have needed a time machine? Or, maybe you don't, that's the funny part. | |
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Suther
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Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 71 | |
| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/11/2005 6:45:56 AM | Raised suspicions
U.S. officials said border officers were suspicious of the man with a Mohawk who told officials he was a U.S. Marine assassin. They speculated that the red spots on his chainsaw were blood and looked for a reason to detain him. But checks to find any outstanding warrants came up empty, they said.
U.S. officials say border officers learned that Despres was to be sentenced that day
"To my knowledge none of our officers were aware that he had missed that court time," said Customs and Border Protection official Steve Farquharson.
Nor did they know that a Canadian warrant had been issued, another official said.
U.S. border officers said they were powerless to hold Despres any longer because he was a U.S. citizen.
"Our officers strongly encouraged and tried to convince Mr. Despres to go back to Canada voluntarily to resolve his legal issues," Farquharson said.
Canadian prosecutor Paul Hawkins said that when prosecutors learned Despres was at the border, they told the Royal Canadian Mounted Police that Despres had missed his sentencing.
Hawkins expressed certainty that the information was relayed to RCMP officers on the border, but does not know if it was passed along to U.S. border officials who were questioning Despres.
On April 26, Canadian authorities discovered the two mutilated bodies of Fulton and Decarie in the house next door to Despres' Minto, New Brunswick, home.
On the defense
Officials on both sides of the border say that even if U.S. authorities had learned of the Canadian warrant, authorities probably wouldn't have taken legal action to return him to Canada.
"I think it would be highly unlikely that we would go through the resources of extraditing an individual from the United States for a summary conviction assault misdemeanor," Hawkins said.
The border episode has sparked criticism from some members of Congress, a joke by late-night comedian Jay Leno and a strong defense from Homeland Security officials.
"Given the facts we had at the time, I believe our officers acted appropriately," said Jayson Ahern, who heads the New England region of U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
Chertoff also defended their actions.
"Local border patrol folks questioned the person, seized the weapons, checked relentlessly to see if there was any outstanding warrants, papers or charges," he told Congress Thursday.
"At the end of the day a U.S. citizen is entitled to return to the country and we [can't] hold people without a legal basis. So it was not a failure of investigation or failure of processing. It was kind of an inherent limitation of our system of law." | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/11/2005 9:19:22 AM |
Are you trying to say that the US discriminates against people that are middle eastern descent?
Absolutely, when it comes to crossing borders. What do you think "racial profiling" means? | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/11/2005 9:25:35 AM | You do realize that for the Customs agents to have acces to this info at the time, they would have needed a time machine?
Maybe you can explain how the knew about the next guy in line's twenty year old charge for pot possession...
How could they figure that out and not be able to learn about the warrant and court date for bloody chainsaw-weilding psycho?
It might come as a shock to you, Bulldog, but Customs Agents *do* have access to the law networks, when they choose to use them.. Obviously in this case, despite what they say, they didn't...
As for why I bring this up when I'm against the Patriot Act, it's simple.. People are getting hassled and detained at the border for nothing more than their cultural and religious background. Some even get deported, as in the case of Maher Arar.
Yet this fellow, who had just killed two senior citizens and was still carrying around the weapons and blood with him, was passed through... I'm just amazed that you don't see anything wrong with it.
NOTE: when I wrote this, I had not yet read Suther's response.. Thanks for clearing some of that up Suther... However, I think the "officials on both sides" that you quoted might just be covering their asses on this one.. There have been people returned from customs before, by both of our countries.. | |
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| Another maniac gets through customs
Posted: 6/27/2005 1:31:07 PM | Speaking from my own experiences at border crossings over the years, I have this to say:
Let's face it, with the technology possessed by both the U. S. and Canada today, there is no way anything could really slip by if there wasn't a political reason for allowing it. From everything I have been reading up on, the only reason for letting 9/11 and subsequent terrorism events happen was to create in the mind of the public a need for greater security (the Department of Homeland Security), etc. This is just one more step toward foricng everyone to wear a microchip containing a number and/or bar code, as they are already starting to do in many places on a voluntary basis. Also, the so-called fingerprint and iris scans. There have been a lot of articles about it online lately, for anyone who has taken the time to read them.
Doesn't anyone take seriously the prophecies about the mark of the beast? If not, you should! I am amazed at how many people still are not aware what is really happening. And even for those who don't believe or understand the Bible, there are still the words of the immortal Benjamin Franklin; "Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither." | |
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