| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/1/2007 12:23:45 PM | Hi Statueman...
I think there will be an ultimate outpouring of peace and goodwill on earth myself. but I don't believe there can be any good coming from man alone.
IS man alone?? I don't think so...
If there is a fight against good and evil, I propose that the genesis lies within the recesses of our own soul... the "fight" begins there in my opinion...
"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
Is evil not simply the absence of light and love? In that sense, there IS no fight... only the courage to accept and love that which resists... evolution at its finest ;)
JMO | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/1/2007 10:59:23 PM | stones
I know you were asking Sassy, so please forgive me but I think that seeing what you believe is inherant evil in yourself is a good thing in that you can accept it and love yourself despite it... I believe in order to truely have compassion you must truely love yourself first... I don't think you like me much Statueman, but I think your heart's in the right place...
I didn't mean to ignore your post... truth is I just read it. I have trouble reading sometimes and wish I could read faster. As far as loving oneself first I know that is a common saying amoungst many here at my church who are just coming off drugs and alcohol or out of abusive relationships. This not strictly biblical from my perspective since self love is assumed in the golden rule. And I think that in most people self love has simply been perverted... they love themselves in a way that is not right and assume it to be hatred of self. I think a more honest appraisal would find selfish motivations stemming from coveting, idolatry(greed), and the like to be a form of perverted self love. From my perspective we could replace the word love with honor and say one needs to honor oneself with truth in the inward being and therefore become capable of honoring others.
But this needs a measuring rod. And Jesus presents a wonderful conglomeration of words to measure oneself by. Better to say "have mercy on me oh God" then "i'm glad i'm not like that guy over there..."
But that is how we judge... no stones... i like you too.
sassy
IS man alone?? I don't think so...
If there is a fight against good and evil, I propose that the genesis lies within the recesses of our own soul... the "fight" begins there in my opinion...
I wasn't saying that man is alone but that he's trying to do it alone. When we believe in a collective consciousness or a gaia styled consciousness of this material projection we call the universe or creation ...
to me...
we are looking to ourselve and our own natural powers to overcome our own natural weaknesses. It's the Tower of Babel all over again. In science, art, philosophy, litrature and self styled spirituality we become masters of our own fires and mixers of our own wines crying out for a control we can never posses inherantly or communally.
Jesus did not say "the truth shall set you free" but he did say that his teaching are the truth and that if we followed his teaching then we shall know the truth and that the truth shall set us free. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/2/2007 2:19:42 PM | Hi SA,
In terms of evil simply being the absence of light -- I'm not sure we have resolved that one.
On one hand, ignorance (defined as the absence of understanding) is certainly the primary cause of a lot of the evil in the world. But is there a positive force ... and assertive force ... that we can consider evil as well?
We can through ignorance be like a bull in a china closet, spreading destruction everywhere. But there are times when we might intentionaly be destructive, out of malice. That is not the absence of light, that is just plain meanness.
I haven't sorted it all out yet, in any case.
Take care | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/2/2007 3:43:30 PM |
I wasn't saying that man is alone but that he's trying to do it alone. When we believe in a collective consciousness or a gaia styled consciousness of this material projection we call the universe or creation ... Statueman: If man is not alone, then how can man do anything on his own? Bit of an oxymoron, no?
to me... we are looking to ourselve and our own natural powers to overcome our own natural weaknesses
And what would be wrong with that?? Some actually call upon their higher power to help them through it...
In terms of evil simply being the absence of light -- I'm not sure we have resolved that one
Hi Soulcrafter, I didn't mean to imply that that is a scientific proof.. but that is my take on things, that evil is the absence of the light of love..
But is there a positive force ... and assertive force ... that we can consider evil as well?
I don't believe so, no. For how can evil be a positive force?
We can through ignorance be like a bull in a china closet, spreading destruction everywhere. But there are times when we might intentionaly be destructive, out of malice. That is not the absence of light, that is just plain meanness.
And I propose that the impulse to be mean comes from a dark place inside which resists the light of love.. causing them to strike out against anything that shines...
JMO | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/2/2007 4:04:54 PM |
And I propose that the impulse to be mean comes from a dark place inside which resists the light of love.. causing them to strike out against anything that shines...
Wow Sass... You are very insightful! I totally dig that!
But is there a positive force ... and assertive force ... that we can consider evil as well?
I can kinda see where he's coming from on this... If Hate is just misunderstood Love like I happen to believe... | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/2/2007 4:27:45 PM | ^^ Thanks :)
If Hate is just misunderstood Love like I happen to believe...
What if hate is simply the other side of love... love being the positive force and hate being the negative (or absence of the positive).. ?
Like two sides of the same coin and we get to choose moment to moment which we will express... but hate is not the same as evil IMO..
And we are horribly off topic.. or are we ?? | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/2/2007 5:11:46 PM |
Like two sides of the same coin and we get to choose moment to moment which we will express... but hate is not the same as evil
I just don't see the duality I guess... I view the whole coin as being Love... The rest are all polarities, in my opinion...
I agree that hate is not the same as evil, but then again, I don't necessarily even believe in evil...
And we are horribly off topic.. or are we ??
Let's see if we can turn it back again....
I guess if we were to incorporate what we know now into the Bible, it may help to define what it is exactly that we now know... | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/2/2007 5:14:58 PM |
you would think after a couple of thousand years, people moving forward in science, politics, lifestyle change, philosiphies.. you would think the Bible would go through changes along with man. Rather than sticking to ancient text that was written in a different age. Should'nt the bible evolve as well to encompass all what we know now, rather than what was known then?
The "Bible" itself cannot change; it is a document written specific to a certain time and place...but the Word of God can change, and does; and while anything written in the Bible regarding man's relationship to God is essentially the same as anything you'll find written in the Quran, the Vedas, etc. -as God is eternal- writings about man's relationship to man does change from text to text, as man continues to change/grow/evolve.
Please consider this writing from the Baha'i Faith:
" Among the bounties of God is revelation. Hence revelation is progressive and continuous. It never ceases. It is necessary that the reality of Divinity with all its perfections and attributes should become resplendent in the human world. The reality of Divinity is like an endless ocean. Revelation may be likened to the rain. Can you imagine the cessation of rain? Ever on the face of the earth somewhere rain is pouring down. Briefly, the world of existence is progressive. It is subject to development and growth. Consider how great has been the progress in this radiant century. Civilization has unfolded. Nations have developed. Industrialism and jurisprudence have expanded. Sciences, inventions and discoveries have increased. All of these show that the world of existence is continuously progressing and developing; and therefore, assuredly, the virtues characterizing the maturity of man must, likewise, expand and grow."
--‘Abdu’l-Bahá: The Promulgation of Universal Peace p. 378; 26 October 1912
Talk at Assembly Hall, Hotel Sacramento; Sacramento, California
Something to think about... | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/2/2007 5:15:28 PM | I'm not gonna read all the posts that deal with this subject, but I will say this:
Think of the Bible as an "introduction" of sorts to God--or any spiritually inspired text. Some people take the Bible as "literal truth"--even though today science has shown that the Bible didn't mention THAT (think dinosaurs). My issues with the Bible started early. I found that it contained seemingly "factual errors"--contradictions sometimes in the same book! However, I have found that it isn't necessary to take the whole thing as "Gospel truth"--and me a Catholic! I actually challenged God to let me know why His word is so confusing and contradictory. Well my "answer" was that it is okay to use reason and to take the Bible as inspiration. Men over the centuries wrote down their experiences with the All Mighty, or took stories and myths from other cultures and incorporated them into Scripture--that became written down many years later in a single document. It ain't "dictated" by God. (I'd hope not--with all the "mistakes" I would have hoped that God would have done better. Thank God I know better now.) Now only stop at the Bible is almost saying that you have no desire to find out God from Himself--to use the cliche, have a "personal relationship" with Him. It's up to you and your desire to know Him. Of course these are my opinions. Formed over years of searching. It's a little radical, but so am I. (My best friend isn't Catholic, btw. She is a member of the Unity Faith. Although we differ on the form of worship, our ideas and beliefs are remarkably similar. But that in no way means that I am RIGHT. I won't know until I get to the "afterlife".) | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/2/2007 7:47:09 PM | Well I would be happy if the New Testament was finally accurately translated!
It has not been.
The King James version is the worst.
The KJ is great literature, but way off the mark as to accuracy.
About 70% of what Christians think is in the bible is not.
Everything from Rapture, Virgin Births and Son Of God phrasing.
In this the new millennium I think it is FINALLY time to overhaul the whole thing.
Let in books previously kicked out and accurately translate the books already there.
Stray | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/2/2007 8:32:39 PM |
I don't necessarily even believe in evil... Nor do I Stone :)
Let in books previously kicked out and accurately translate the books already there. Couldn't agree more Stray!!
In that sense it wouldn't be an evolution, just more of an unearthing of what was actually originally there... how sad that the TRUTH had to be erased from it's pages in the first place... | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/3/2007 4:48:04 PM | I think you'll find that religions change the scriptures accordingly, though the process is painfully slow... take the JW's and their predictions on the dates for Armageddon, all past us by, then they realized (surprise, surprise) they were making a mockery of their own bible.
The Roman Catholics are also guilty on a numbers of issues and others... it's only when science verifies something as fact that religions rapidly fall in line, while hoping no one noticed... yeah right! | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/3/2007 5:31:55 PM |
The "Bible" itself cannot change; it is a document written specific to a certain time and place...but the Word of God can change, and does; and while anything written in the Bible regarding man's relationship to God is essentially the same as anything you'll find written in the Quran, the Vedas, etc. -as God is eternal- writings about man's relationship to man does change from text to text, as man continues to change/grow/evolve.
Exactly. It's fascinating to note just what ideas carry through the different texts from so many different times and places. That is the part that is permanent and fast; whether or not a man can shave his beard or wear silver, well, that changes with the times. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/4/2007 9:36:26 AM | The more I see what non believers post and observe the views of many on here, the more I realize that the reason I'm drawn to this forum is not to debate the issues or hope to enlighten/ be enlightened, but to proclaim a warning.
I have noticed that many people want to create their own idea of God. They speak of communing with him and feeling no sence of judgement from him. Some people call him "pure love", or "unconditional love", others call him "light" or "self" or don't give him a name at all. I am here to tell you that what you find comfort in, is not God at all.
I know many will attack me for saying this and claim that they have just as much right to their opinion as do I, but I'm willing to make such statements, because I know that what I say, is NOT "MY" opinion. If I were to go solely based off of MY opinion, I would have a view of God very similar to those I see here. Fortunately, I see the falacy in having a god created of the self instead of outside the self. A god of the self, is only accountable to the self and has no greater standards then what the self declares. The one true God holds all acountable and the standards are universal.
People say that being honest to the self is the way to god. Well even if someone has been searching the self their entire life, at most they've only had 80 -100 years to "find" god. I say to you God has declared Himself forever and has offered Himself to us ever since humanity learned to write. I say to you God has been declaring Himself for thousands of years . He defined His name and who He was ,is , and will be.
Before you could rationalize and delcare your self, God had spoken. Before you could come to any realizations, God had spoken. If your rationals and realizations differ from what God has spoken, then you must come to the understanding that the inner voice you hear is not that of God. When God speaks, He will always direct you to His Word, the Bible.
God's use of the written word is so profound that He even includes this last fact in His Words. He states that those who seek Him outside of the Word will find something, but it won't be Him. He is so glorious He also states that once you have found that which is not Him, you will be moved more and more to draw away from His Word and refuse it as Holy.
I say to you, you have been warned. This idea of "god is self" is growing and will continue to grow, just as previously declared by the Bible. Those who embrace this idea will for the time being, stay calm as they watch the grassroots movement take hold. Soon this will change. These are not my views or opinions, but observations of modern society which correlates with prophecy from a book that's been around longer than any of us.
Soon we will enter a time of the Christ haters. Those who will lead us into such a time are the ones who now claim Christ as a brother, but not as the true Son of God. These are very dangerous people.
Once again, I am only posting as a means to deliver a warning. God has defined Himself and has defined those who only rely on the self. Those who truly know God, will always point others towards His Word. Those who don't know God will always point others away from the Word. Not only is this obvious when observing the world, but was stated thousands of years ago, in God's Word. God truly is amazing!
For those who say they don't believe in evil... once again turn to the Word. God has already proclaimed that the great deceiver will first try to convince us that he does not exist. Then he will try to convince us, that he himself is God. Know that you have been warned. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/4/2007 10:36:54 AM |
I am here to tell you that what you find comfort in, is not God at all. Oh the irony...
I believe that we are all one.. and that each of us is a part of God.. how we choose to conceptualize God (or not) is entirely up to the individual... whether that is the same as another's perspective is of little consequence..
Thanks for the warning and all, but I vastly prefer my view of the world.. which of course, I am entitled to.. just as you are entitled to live within a mental framework that IMO appears to prevent evolution | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/4/2007 10:49:34 AM |
N8420: I say to you God has declared Himself forever and has offered Himself to us ever since humanity learned to write
yes how coincidental that God reared his head at precisely that time
N8420: Soon we will enter a time of the Christ haters. Those who will lead us into such a time are the ones who now claim Christ as a brother, but not as the true Son of God. These are very dangerous people.
blah blah Jews are the devil praise the lord blah blah I always loved christian propaganda and how Christ's love is so good for hate-mongering. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/4/2007 11:08:15 AM | You're so silly n8...
I know many will attack me for saying this and claim that they have just as much right to their opinion as do I, but I'm willing to make such statements, because I know that what I say, is NOT "MY" opinion. If I were to go solely based off of MY opinion, I would have a view of God very similar to those I see here. Fortunately, I see the falacy in having a god created of the self instead of outside the self. A god of the self, is only accountable to the self and has no greater standards then what the self declares. The one true God holds all acountable and the standards are universal.
If that isn't your opinion, who is in control of your brain? | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/4/2007 11:48:20 AM |
I believe that we are all one.. and that each of us is a part of God.. how we choose to conceptualize God (or not) is entirely up to the individual... whether that is the same as another's perspective is of little consequence..
*s m i l e s* We are a collective soul in the sea of the universe.
Paradoxically, this is not so far out when you think about it. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/4/2007 1:08:45 PM | N8420 made perhaps the most merciful and considerate presentation I've ever read of what we as collective christians really believe in the body of Christ and why we believe it.
Perhaps the only thing I would have said differently is that I think you already know about the things N8420 is talking about and chose to ignore it. So I would have called it a reminder and not a warning.
I was raised in the spirituality of Alcoholic Anonymous and Transcendental Meditation (Mahareshi Mahesh Yogi) and remember being able to bully the bullies with my spiritual abilities. I could tap into the collective consciousness of the groups I was in and bend them to the needs of the challenges I deemed appropriate. Once in awhile I was bested by boys older than me who could use were able to see through my phasade ...fascade ... phony powers.
You see, AA led me to believe that the collective conscience of men and women growning together toward unconditional love and freedom from alcohol through acceptance and tolerance of everyones beliefs and everyones own god was the way to a spiritual awakening of the oneness mankind would need to create heaven on earth. And lets face it AA wasn't the only group espousing such beliefs. Later I was to find books dating back into the 1800's where new age philosiphers with intrigueing insights into the spirit would say that a oneness of man is going to take us to the next step in our evolution.
God as the collective conscience of mans benevolence...
Unfortunately... I read Daniel, Revelations, the Gospels, and several minor and major Prophets including the prophetic laws of Moses. Then I realized the futility of all those wonderfully decieved spiritually laced prophetic speeches I had heard in AA as a child. I began to hate the world and everything in it.
Then I came face to face with the evil in my own heart as I began to apply the scriptures to my own life. I realized with great pain and joy that the Word of our Creator I AM was flawless and timeless. And that His Name would protect me and keep me through all my trials. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/4/2007 3:59:32 PM |
I believe that we are all one.. and that each of us is a part of God.. how we choose to conceptualize God (or not) is entirely up to the individual... whether that is the same as another's perspective is of little consequence.
I say, that which has been revealed through the Word declares that those who claim there is no true definition of God, that He has no real name, that it's just up to the conceptualization of the individual, has not reached these conclusions by way of God. God loves us all and would never try to convince us that any aspect of life is of little consequence, whether it be a perception or an action.
God has already declared all. God has already declared that there will be judgement and condemnation. It is not God who trys to convince us that there is no judgement. It is not God who says we will never be condemned. I know this for it has been revealed by the Word. It has been stated that judgement commith and as it nears there shall be a shallow voice that wills to convince us otherwise. To cause us to ignore the Word. It would have us indulge in anything so long as it isn't the Word.
To those with a "universal" god, search your inner voice. Ask it if you should turn to the Bible? If it says no, then ponder why, and take my warning with whatever weight you will.
For the Lost. If you are truly seeking to know God, know that he reveals himself through the Word and that those who have Christ in their heart will always point you toward the Word.
For the Believer. Know that the voice has been revealed to you. The message of the Anti-Christ is already among us. Keep to the Word and help spread the message of Christ. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/4/2007 4:24:41 PM |
God loves us all and would never try to convince us that any aspect of life is of little consequence, whether it be a perception or an action. And yet YOU are on here saying that your perception is the only one and if people do not believe as YOU do, well then.. fire and brimstone? Wow... all I was trying to convey is that others can believe (or not believe) as they see fit, regardless of whether that meets with your approval.
The word? How exactly do you know that the bible is even the word of God? Did you write it??
What about Neal Donald Walsh then, are those the words of God in his books "Conversations with God"?? simply because he says so??
Essentially none of us will know until we die. Period. So what we choose to believe (or not believe) in this life is entirely up to us...
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/4/2007 4:30:04 PM |
To those with a "universal" god, search your inner voice. Ask it if you should turn to the Bible? If it says no, then ponder why, and take my warning with whatever weight you will.
This is about as sanctimonious a statement I've heard from you numbers. The key to your challenge is your aversion; a lack or total absence of any tolerance. Whenever you take a step forward, you revert two steps back with the same repartee. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 7:17:11 AM |
And yet YOU are on here saying that your perception is the only one and if people do not believe as YOU do, well then.. fire and brimstone? Wow... all I was trying to convey is that others can believe (or not believe) as they see fit, regardless of whether that meets with your approval
This is not my perception. It is acceptence of truth. As I already stated, if I had my way, my god would be much like Neal Donald Walsh's. A god that I don't have to answer to, but I see the falicy in such a god: therefore I seek a higher understanding then what the self can offer. I went outside the self and sought Him where He told me I could find Him, and guess what? That's exactly where He is. Some say they want God to reveal Himself, I say, God has already declared that He can be found in the Word and that He will reveal Himself through the word.
The word? How exactly do you know that the bible is even the word of God? Did you write it??
I've already answered that question on this thread
What about Neal Donald Walsh then, are those the words of God in his books "Conversations with God"?? simply because he says so??
I've already answered how you know whether someone is truly inspired by God also, but since you bring it up...
No they are not the words of God. I know this because they do not fit with the Word, and actually go directly against it. One of the first claims offered is that Satan doesn't exist and that you should dishonor your father and mother. I don't care if you're a believer or not, anyone who knows anything about the Bible, knows that it warns against people making such claims.
Yes you can chose whatever path you want. My purpose is not to pass judgement, it is to say, I care about all mankind, and while not from me there will be a time of judgement, and the basis for said judgement has been declared | |
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