| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 7:49:32 AM | The truth as Christians see it does not originate from the individual but from the Creator of the individual.
Our common Creator I AM did, however, create us in His own Image according to the scriptures... and so Paul points out that some people are like a law unto themselves and do those things by nature that are contained in the Law.
Now... the bible gives us a reminder of the image we are all created in and trains us how to discern the Spirit of God from the spirit of man. This is not to say that man cannot follow God from his own spirit since his spirit comes from God. But this is to say that those who think they are following God can be decieved by a false god or a spirit not under Gods authority.
We believe fallen spirits exsist. Therefore it is necessary that we warn those who do not follow Christ... even the best most moral of those who are a "law unto themselves" that to think others capable of their gift for morality unaided by scriptural guidance can cause a great many to go astray and to create a "god of their own understanding" who is not Creator God but a created spiritual being who disguises themself as an angel of light or as the one God. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 8:04:41 AM |
This is not my perception. It is acceptence of truth. As I already stated, if I had my way, my god would be much like Neal Donald Walsh's.
Hey, it isn't our fault you can't be true to yourself...
The truth as Christians see it does not originate from the individual but from the Creator of the individual.
And if individuals such as ourselves don't agree on what the creator may be, then what?
I am as much an authority of my creation as you are! Don't you forget that!
But this is to say that those who think they are following God can be decieved by a false god or a spirit not under Gods authority.
And what if, just what if, it is you and n8 who are decieved?
Truth is, no one knows... That includes you... | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 8:13:10 AM | Somehow I can't quite see a councel or vote on how and where to change the Bible.
It's not like our Nations' Constitution .... it's a Book.
Now if anyone wishes to change the Ten Commandments (more of the Constitution of the Bible), I would suggest you discuss that with the author first. Or write your own edit, under your name, and market that. Good luck.
I'm envisioning the twack (thump on the head) from the councel of writers sitting around up stairs. I'm hearing laughter. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 8:46:36 AM | Part of believing god's word is that he knows the end from the beginning... He is intelligent. Reveals himself to us, and doesn't change, so we shouldn't try to change his revealed concept of himself. Otherwise most likely, he will look like us.
Jesus knew he dealt with spirits, not just an idea he made up to help simple ancient people understand psycho traumas. Schizophrenia, epilespy... are caused by other people without bodies. Spirits are still cast out today all over the world.
There is a book of revelations.
If any must correct, it must be god with much power, otherwise corrupters can make up stuff and have a field day. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 9:35:43 AM | stones
And what if, just what if, it is you and n8 who are decieved?
Truth is, no one knows... That includes you...
I can say that I know that no one and no thing that I have ever experimented with besides the Word Himself has ever shown more miraculous or life changing power. I can also say that I've never experienced more in the way of life and love when I've been at my best and most obedient to the Word of Christ.
But I in no way consider myself to embody the truth. Merely I will brag about the goodness shown to me and through me by the God "I AM".
and stones...
You have such a testimony. Your God is one of Unconditional Love and Forgiveness is it not? | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 9:39:15 AM | ashley1861 It was in fact council that put together what we now know as the Christian Bible. It is was the Nicene council. they met apx 400 years after the death of Jesus. before that time there was no such thing as the bible. there were a great many documents all pertaining to God and and some to Jesus. The Nicene Council very much voted on what books to include and what books to leave out. the term heretic is not about someone who does not believe in Jesus or god. it isa term used to describe someone who did not believe as the Nicene Council said you should believe. Those that felt the so called Gnostic gospels were Holy were often put to death the Documents destroyed. Churches burned. All done in the name of God and Jesus.
a case in point is st Valentine. we celebrate valentines day because of this mans love and the notes from him that were smuggled out of prison. The story is he was imprisoned by Rome. Not true he was put in prison by his fellow Christians because he was a Gnostic.
I could go on and on about the politics of the early Christian Chruch and how with the wieght of the newly christianized Rome Empire. They crushed any opposition to the official Christian Doctrines.
the bible is a very flawed and convoluted document. you also have to ask yourself if you truly think this is the word of god what Bible are we talking about? The bible of the Roman Catholic Chruch, the Eastren Orthodox Church, The Coptic Bible, The Ethiopian Bible, The King James? What one of these Bibles and a few more are the word of God?
This is an outstanding quoat on the Bible from Mark Twain
"It is full of interest. ithas some noble Poetry in it.And some clever fables and blood drenched History. And some good morals. And a weath of obsenity. And upwards of a thousand lies." | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 11:34:08 AM |
This is not my perception. It is acceptence of truth. As I already stated, if I had my way, my god would be much like Neal Donald Walsh's. If you had your way?? You DO have your way! It is your choice how you view God, so if you truly prefer Neale Donald Walsh's version of "truth"... then by all means adopt it.. or even pieces of it, why not? If something resonates within you, then why not open your heart and accept it as being true for you? I don't understand why you would continue to believe in a God that you yourself have intimated is not entirely fulfilling simply because someone else has said so...
The truth as Christians see it does not originate from the individual but from the Creator of the individual No man will be an authority on what I believe but me... I truly think it is sad that people allow others to tell them what to believe and if they don't subjugate their own authority, they will go to HELL...
You have a mind statueman and a heart.. and I am sure you know what is best for you... ? How can another individual be an authority on who God is to YOU? They can only give you an idea, the relationship must come from within, no?
All religious writings lend ideas and point the way, and no matter the impetus, whether the bible, Koran, Bagavad Gita, etc... ultimately prayer, meditation, searching.. all must come from within. No one can give you a love for God, it comes from within you, not without.. and IMO that is because it is our heart that connects us to God, not someone else's words, as blasphemous as that may seem to others ;)
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 12:03:22 PM | proofs in the pudding, sassy...
for me,...
i've tasted the pudding and experienced the truth. no one gave it to me but i recieved it from the experience and persuasion of experience and use. i know where a fifth of jim beam will take me and i know the side effects i do not like. i know where Jesus Words take me with no side effects unless you count the suffering of the flesh and it's desires.
to me...
i am filled with the spirit as with wine... knowledge and virtue not of myself but of freedom that comes from knowing the truth and continueing there in
so now...
i witness to these things without pretense and without apology for i am not ashamed of the Gospel. But I am ashamed sometimes of how other of my faith present it. As I have been sometimes of my own presentation of Christ. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 2:43:42 PM | You have such a testimony. Your God is one of Unconditional Love and Forgiveness is it not?
It is indeed... However, I cannot claim to know anything 100% as no one else can... I DO respect your beliefs, but what I don't like is when people negate other peoples ways just because they are different... And yes... Telling us we will go to Hell if we don't believe you is negating our way, which was found within...
I can say that I know that no one and no thing that I have ever experimented with besides the Word Himself has ever shown more miraculous or life changing power.
Change Himself to Itself and I'd say me too, but my views change everytime someone else shares the view they have within...
So by seeing other views and adding them to my perspective, I will go to hell if I don't let someone else(saviour or brother) take away my right to question? Is that it?
That goes against the nature of compassion... | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 2:59:46 PM |
All religious writings lend ideas and point the way, and no matter the impetus, whether the bible, Koran, Bagavad Gita, etc... ultimately prayer, meditation, searching.. all must come from within. No one can give you a love for God, it comes from within you, not without.. and IMO that is because it is our heart that connects us to God, not someone else's words, as blasphemous as that may seem to others ;)
Great points sassy!
It seems we have a ticket to heaven only if it has the stamp of indoctrinated approval. Well, my ticket was bought when I decided where heaven is - not when others dictated the reservation. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 3:21:18 PM | ^^^ Yeah Sky... She has a way with words, no?
I also just wanted to say that in my eyes, although they are directly related, forgiveness and compassion are not the same thing... It takes compassion to forgive, but it doesn't take forgiveness to be compassionate... A baby's first smile is not an act of forgiveness, but a relaying of Love.
And yet, you tell me we are born into sin... I'm sorry, but that standpoint obscures my view...
I believe we are born into Love... I don't feel the need to be forgiven, just the need to be loved... | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 4:56:37 PM | stones
So by seeing other views and adding them to my perspective, I will go to hell if I don't let someone else(saviour or brother) take away my right to question? Is that it?
That goes against the nature of compassion...
I never said anything of the sort... each to his own God. But allow me not to call my God an it. You are looking only on the surface... authority is the ability to call things into exsistance with a word. I have seen this authority in action and cannot deny the power of following the word of light. If my God is God then there is no other word that is stronger than the word of my God. If my God gives me words then my words are no longer my words but they are Gods words.
But now the prophets run with words that do not come from God as they did then and will continue to do. These will hate those who do have the words that come from God and try to destroy them. Those will be the ones going to hell. If that's not you... then why let it concern you? | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 5:04:08 PM | But now the prophets run with words that do not come from God as they did then and will continue to do. These will hate those who do have the words that come from God and try to destroy them. Those will be the ones going to hell. If that's not you... then why let it concern you?
You're talking about our brothers and sisters... I have my compassion... Where's your forgiveness?
I have to return the question with why doesn't it concern you?
Not to mention that every one of them is partially my god(s)! | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 5:13:02 PM |
authority is the ability to call things into exsistance with a word. Is it? Or is it the ability to own your own power and cocreate with the divine? A power that I believe God gave each one of us...
Or said differently: The power to determine for ourselves.. ?
I'm sorry that you may have given yours up, that is your choice... others have a right to use theirs whether you approve or not ;) | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 6:13:02 PM | I do think and act and do for myself of myself and by myself. But when I turn to God I find out wether I was wrong in my actions or not. So I judge accordingly and receive what is my due according to what I do or do not do.
Now if my actions are not governed by self then I must ask for and recieve guidance from my Creator so that what I do will please my Creator. This is the supreme example of thinking for oneself when you consider that it is well...
just smart
to wish to please ones Creator. Now since I believe my Creator is your Creator and if I have a word from our Creator should I give that word or no?
This is the essence of the bible, and I see in it the truth of those who also have made the wise decision to please our common Creator God. I do not worry about a hell that I cannot condemn anyone to. I do however worry about those who do condemn others to hell pre-maturely through false teachings. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 6:27:07 PM | Now since I believe my Creator is your Creator and if I have a word from our Creator should I give that word or no?
Yes... That's the same thing I do in a way... Give til it hurts.... Not the giver, the reciever...
I think it's real cool to bring someone in and show them your way when they are lost... But when they know what they know from their own view and can see their way just fine, I will not try to correct their direction...
If asked I will explain my view(heck, even when not asked) but in no way, shape or form would I threaten punishment and utter dire warnings on those who listened and decided they would find their own way home! (Unless they're drinkin and drivin... They could cause pain to someone else)
I do however worry about those who do condemn others to hell pre-maturely through false teachings.
I like that...
But let me ask you one question...
I refuse to accept Jesus as my savior... I accept him as my brother, not because I even am sure he existed, but because he exists in my heart through all the stories and emotion his words inspire... That means to properly live up to what I believe in my heart I see him as no better and no worse (in some respects sure, but altogether) than you, me or anyone else who dared speak their mind and question what they've been taught. It saddens me that he died thinking we had forsaken him(remember, I think we are all gods and things), so to me accepting him as my savior would be like whatever you call blasphemy...
Do I go to Hell? In your belief system, that is... | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 6:32:36 PM |
Now since I believe my Creator is your Creator and if I have a word from our Creator should I give that word or no? No clue what you mean.. should you give the word of the word? Huh? How about LIVE the word and let the rest decide itself ;)
This is the essence of the bible, and I see in it the truth of those who also have made the wise decision to please our common Creator God. As though those who don't follow the teachings of the bible do NOT please the creator... ? Hmmm.. how is it that YOU know what pleases God? Oh yeah, the proof is in word of the bible.. riiiiight
There are other "words" out there statueman, and to deny their existance as though they aren't true for others is rather.. hmmm... elitist and arrogant. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 6:47:49 PM | this thread is about the bible... so why am i elitist to claim the bible as my word from God?
i have not condemned what others believe but rather have spoken to the fact that my
experiences
confirm the truth is written in the pages of the bible
why need i look further... what i find most fascinating is that it makes you angry as if I had not looked into those other sources which you don't mention...
what i find most alarming is that you call me elitist and arrogant but qualify your own judgement of me by using the bible in an "as though" sentence.
sassy, that is unfair, illogical and mean... i have been none of those things... i have only esposed what i believe and why i believe it. try to understand i am not condemning anyone... i am only approving what i know is life changing truth.
i do not believe that Jesus loves me because the bible tells me so... i know that Jesus loves me because of my experiences (plural) with him in the spirit. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 7:07:46 PM | what i find most fascinating is that it makes you angry as if I had not looked into those other sources which you don't mention... I mentioned 2 other sources of the "word" of God in message 57, and I have also mentioned "conversations with God"... there are more.. but I trust you know that ;)
I am glad that you have found that which works for you, BUT you seem unable to allow others the same freedom with your comments and warnings about going to HELL or not pleasing the creator if one does not follow the teachings of the bible...
Which to ME sounds elitist and arrogant, irregardless of whether you deem my opinion illogical or mean. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/5/2007 7:50:56 PM | | Exactly how would it "evolve" though? And who would do it? Years ago, some high-ranking men decided what would be in the official version anyway. And once decided, exactly who is going to change it -the Pope? I think it would be must too controversial for anyone to start trying to "update" it. In a sense, I get the feeling that it is deemed "perfect" (as God's words) by the churches already, so to them, I doubt there is any need to update it. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/6/2007 8:58:29 AM | evolve? (God, if one believes "he" exists).........
Is the same now as "then"....and no one knows when "he" began.
"he" knew of all the years to come.....and the changes in people to come.
He reveals it all through the Bible inspired by him, for us.
2007...is of no more importance, than when 'time' began...to 'him'.
We've 'evolved'...in levels of tolerance etc...BUT, "he" has NOT
'evolved' to accomadate "modern" man. God cannot lie, will not lie.
The promises he made in the Bible...are meant and were considered for men/women of ALL times...then and now. We change....he remains the same. THANK GOD! We can rely on his promises, without compromise or changes.
What we "know now".........he knew way back then. We cannot comprehend just how "all knowing" "he" is...Look beyond his creations on earth...look to the heavens...incredible, but I cannot for the life of me understand all the planets and their purposes.........BUT God knows!! "HE" is so far ahead of us, and always will be. | |
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| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/6/2007 10:07:05 AM | We want God to 'fit' into our now 'lifestyles' accomadate us in our 'now' choices....God has told us what he wants from us......as we "evolve" we want acceptions.......to the His 'rules' that seem "outdated" by OUR standards of today...He set the 'standards'...we want them changed. So, man does keep changing rules accomadate himself/herself for "today"...Man can make all the "changes" he chooses to, God knew we would...He is all knowing...
Yet...it won't change Him...his love for us, his expectations of us, the promises he made and the intent for them and He keeping each and everyone.
God cannot exist by OUR expectaions, We exist by His..as he created US or HIS pleasure!!
Like the clay cup telling the potter/creator..."But, I don't want to be a cup, I want to be a saucer!" | |
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