|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/7/2007 8:33:53 PM |
Did we know the consequences of our actions before hand?
If they were the first actions of that sort we made, I tend not to think so...
I've been in a rather serious mood today... my best friend is leaving the ministry that I'm involved with and ... well.
I'm going to miss him terribly. He's the type of Christian that doesn't talk as spiritually as he walks. Fun and always kind. I was hoping he'd rub off on me.
Sorry to hear that... I'm willing to bet he did... It sounds like you admire him... Those kind usually rub off on us whether we know it or not... | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/7/2007 9:38:26 PM | In the seven years my friend has been working at this ministry free of charge he has been driving over 300 miles a week to keep food on the table for over 150 people... (those 150 people are turned over about every 2 to 4 months so all total he's been of invaluable service to over 7000+ people.) He's considered becoming a pastor but has since decided it was not for him. He's going to a paying gig now that is great for him. He deserves it 10 times over...
But what gets me is the others in this ministry who have been here many years and have alot of valuable service under there belts is the fact that they don't know the dollars and sense of what their actions mean and most of them are 10 times more humble than I'll ever be.
I'm eloquent and worldly while they are doing the deed. I come and go but they stay... the only reason I' m here now is I needed to get my head on strait.
I don't think there is one person in this forum who would not be impressed with the type of christianity represented by the primary leadership in this church.
and no changes needed to be made to the bible to form this ministry!
in fact, it's the kind of christianity that starts off in the morning with a coffee and smoke and ends in the evening with a smoke... but nobody forgets where they came from... and the streets are right outside waiting for those that do, but a job a car and an apartment and a new life are waiting for those that stick it out... getting off parole, booze, drugs...
Front line ministry baby! And my friend has seen it all in his seven years here... we all hope this job works out for him but we will all miss him and what he does for this ministry.
I'm sorry for going on a bit. But there are just some people who are doing more for this country and indeed humanity then even they know. I Praise God for them. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 7:26:26 AM | Statueman,
I understand the feelings one goes through when a strong Christian is called away from them.
Rejocie though. If he is as strong a Christian as you describe and has been in a position to help so many, imagine what God has planned for him, if he is being called to other avenues.
Stone,
What is your view on my overall statement, that it doesn't matter if we knew of consequences beforehand or not? That our evolution lies in coming to the realazation and acceptance that there are consequences. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 12:33:54 PM | What is your view on my overall statement, that it doesn't matter if we knew of consequences beforehand or not? That our evolution lies in coming to the realazation and acceptance that there are consequences.
I would agree... I don't think morality existed until we decided to have morals(When we saw and understood the first pain)... On your overall statement that we are born bad and going to Hell if we don't see the same as others, I think you're off the mark... | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 2:59:31 PM | You know I don't want to grab the dog by the ears here...
I see consequences happen right away for folks in my sphere of activities. These are the kind of folks... i'm the kind of folks ... that can do a swan dive into hell... I usually just take myself but the some of the folks here can take a whole bunch of people with them.
What I'm saying is this. Evidence of hell is right here on earth... in this world... if you want to see hell talk to a grown victim of child abuse with criminal record of violence and drugs... there's a few here you can talk to. We even have the silver spoons types that went bad and now have turned their life around. But even though they can describe the "hell" they went through it's amazing that we can go back to doing what put us in hell...
anyone with any level of self honesty knows what I'm talking about.
hell is a side effect of things that we highly enjoy but which ultimately hurt us.
evil is called good by us when we like it!
is this the kind of truth we want to live? | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:06:11 PM |
I would agree... I don't think morality existed until we decided to have morals(When we saw and understood the first pain)... On your overall statement that we are born bad and going to Hell if we don't see the same as others, I think you're off the mark...
Actually, I still disagree. I think we knew what we were getting ourselves into. My point is, though, that it doesn't matter if we knew before or not. Part of our evolution is in understanding that there ARE consequences.
If we have all inflicted said pain, then we have fallen short of the mark. We do have sin. Even though I knew not before, I now, understand the impact of my actions. If I repent of those actions and live free from my past mistakes, I can (and I feel should) be granted forgivenes, but I must accept that, when I come to this understanding and continue those same actions I deserve to be punished.
Without mutual understanding there is anarchy and chaos. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:11:59 PM |
hell is a side effect of things that we highly enjoy but which ultimately hurt us. No surprise here.. but I don't agree with you..
I think that HELL is a state of mind and that the opposite can be freely chosen at any time.
evil is called good by us when we like it! How can you make such blanket statements.. ? That may be true for you.. but it sure isn't true for me. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:15:26 PM | But Statueman... This was also at one time Eden according to your beliefs, right?
Heaven and Hell are real, yes... We have all been to both, right here... We know Earth can be good, bad, and all shades between... How can we bring back the ways of Eden by scaring people? Why can't we dwell on the good and happy side of life and try to help spread it that way, instead of gloom and doom? You help more with smiling while you help, than with warnings...
Any of the heavens I've heard about/been to, were not reached through being afraid, but through happiness... Any hells I've heard about/been to, all came from fear...
Which side did you say you were on again?
Without mutual understanding there is anarchy and chaos.
Mutual understanding is what I'm talking about... You are talking about conformity. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:20:32 PM | If you think the bible has not evolved, try researching some of it's history! There are words in some bibles that were not even part of the vocabulary of the original writers. There is vernacular that has meaning based on an event at the time of it's writing, that many now see as parable. There are chapters that have been added and deleted with each new version since the time of mass production. There are even words, whose definition has changed over all these generations.
If that is not enough, imagine that there are some 230,000 sects of Christianity alone, not to mention those who claim Judaism whose partial foundation is the Old Testament.
Imagine that Jesus would teach such a thing as discrimination, which goes against the original Ten Commandments. Yet, there are those who discriminate using the Bible to back them up in their righteous bigotries.
The Bible evolves with each individuals personal interpretation. And for those who would follow, there is a severe lack of will to know for themselves what they might believe.
So read it, interpret it and live the parts that you deem worthy of a good person. In this way, it becomes personal, and evolves to your needs, not to the needs of the masses. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:20:53 PM | sassy you have to have a working definition of evil
the sexual revolution was evil
we know that now but we can't seem to admit to it! Now we need a revival to turn the hearts of the fathers and mothers back to their children.
abortion, high violent crime and drug abuse,
divorce...
When do we wake up and smell the payment of simple
FORNICATION?
fornication hurts us so
for the bible told us so
little step children don't belong
we are weak but they are strong
yesssss pick your own truth
yesssssss pick your own truth
anarchy told us sooooooo
(or was it unitarianism? or communism? or alcoholism anonymousism? or newageism?) | |
|
| |
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:29:53 PM |
Which side did you say you were on again?
Aren't we really all on the same side?
Mutual understanding is what I'm talking about... You are talking about conformity
If some sort of mutual understanding is ever accomplished then to reach it, one must conform to it.
I must say, I disagree that creation is not possible without chaos. IMO. Creation, whether intentional or accidental seems to always have a definite pattern to it. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:34:39 PM |
sassy you have to have a working definition of evil I do?? Lol.. back to the arrogance are we?
If that is the case, mine most certainly does not agree with yours:
the sexual revolution was evil So fornication is evil? Wow...
yesssssss pick your own truth
anarchy told us sooooooo
(or was it unitarianism? or communism? or alcoholism anonymousism? or newageism?) I think that that is the most prejudiced laden thing I have ever seen written by you. I won't even dignify it with a response, to do so would be to lend credence where there is clearly none.
As for evil? To me it is the absence of the light and love of God..
Which are you spreading right now statueman? | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:37:28 PM | -----The more rules you make, the less common sense you have.-----
Common sense is training. Take it from me... you can't rehabilitate people who were never habilitated in the first place!
I got gang bangers here that Jesus changed from the inside out with three free hots and a cot, some good labor and a few hours of bible read-study-prayer. These young men and women come here and get lit on a fire that burns hotter than the one that had them robbing your house last night!
Proofs in the pudding! I've met cats who grew up their whole lives in crime families knowing nothing but the streets and a good hustle to survive! They open proverbs up and read a chapter in a group in the morning and WOW! Like a light comes on in their eyes and they teach me something I never saw or understood about God.
Common Sense
are you kidding!?! might as well say military intelligence
training training training and a point of reference to do it from! Not rules taught by men either... training to listen to the Holy Spirit of our Father in Heaven and his son Jesus Christ and wow the bills get paid baby! Common Sense is a cop out used by folks who think everyone is working with the benefits they enjoy. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:37:43 PM | Aren't we really all on the same side?
Of course we are... That's why I laugh at the disease of fear you would spread like marmalade on toast! You talk of sending us to Hell, not I!
If some sort of mutual understanding is ever accomplished then to reach it, one must conform to it.
This is backwards thinking... mutual understanding is learning from differences and accepting those differences... Not pretending they don't exist so peoples last thoughts are "What if I'm wrong?" That is not cool... Last thoughts should be filled with wonder, not fear... All of life for that matter. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:40:39 PM | Statue - and with over 230,000 differing Christian views, why should yours be considered the 'truth'?
I suppose you also think that Christianity is by far the largest single belief system in the world. Perhaps in this day, we have access to much more information, from which to formulate our truths, including figures which will tell you that in 2,000 years, Christianity is but one faith among thousands, and under that one umbrella there are so many differing opinions and interpretations, that it boggles the mind.
Therefore, it seems logical that faith, by it's very nature is a personal thing, and to try to teach your truth to others, will only end with your own frustrations. Such a sad way to live one's live, especially when willing and able hands are at your disposal to help in so many other ways. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:42:05 PM |
The Bible evolves with each individuals personal interpretation. And for those who would follow, there is a severe lack of will to know for themselves what they might believe.
So read it, interpret it and live the parts that you deem worthy of a good person. In this way, it becomes personal, and evolves to your needs, not to the needs of the masses
I wholeheartedly disagree with this view. I'm sorry, but a pick and chose mentallity is an idolotrous one. You are forcing God to conform to you.
Of course we are... That's why I laugh at the disease of fear you would spread like marmalade on toast! You talk of sending us to Hell, not I!
Actually, I speak of saving ourselves from hell, not sending us to it.
If some sort of mutual understanding is ever accomplished then to reach it, one must conform to it.
This is backwards thinking... mutual understanding is learning from differences and accepting those differences...
Which is still an act of conforming
Not pretending they don't exist so peoples last thoughts are "What if I'm wrong?" That is not cool... Last thoughts should be filled with wonder, not fear... All of life for that matter.
We've already come to the mutual understanding that actions have consequence; therefore, we must have fear, so we can objectively view our actions. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 4:00:29 PM | Actually, I speak of saving ourselves from hell, not sending us to it.
One begets the other... Circular reasoning...
Which is still an act of conforming
Perfect! So in order for no one to go to Hell, your god can celebrate difference instead of condemning it, right? Since it's more powerful than we are, and it made us in the first place, shouldn't this god just accept difference? No Hell... Problem solved.
We've already come to the mutual understanding that actions have consequence; therefore, we must have fear, so we can objectively view our actions.
You think we should fear the natural world or respect it? Fear and respect are NOT the same thing.
You don't look at things objectively when you look at them through fear... Fear is subjective! Plus is used as a weapon... How do you bring a message of peace through means of a weapon? | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 4:03:19 PM |
I'm sorry, but a pick and chose mentallity is an idolotrous one. You are forcing God to conform to you. How interesting...
First, how exactly can someone force God to do anything?
And are YOU not choosing christianity over the other belief systems available in the world?? Aren't we all essentailly picking and choosing that which works for ourselves in this regard??
How then can you say that others are making a poor choice if it works for them? How does another's choice of belief even affect you?? | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 4:37:36 PM |
Perfect! So in order for no one to go to Hell, your god can celebrate difference instead of condemning it, right? Since it's more powerful than we are, and it made us in the first place, shouldn't this god just accept difference? No Hell... Problem solved.
Not, if the whole point of us being here, is to understand, that we aren't as different, as some, would have us think.
You think we should fear the natural world or respect it? Fear and respect are NOT the same thing.
You don't look at things objectively when you look at them through fear... Fear is subjective! Plus is used as a weapon... How do you bring a message of peace through means of a weapon?
Without fear, one can ever respect nature, more then, they respect their own intentions.
What message of peace? During His ministry, Christ spoke more of hell then He did of heaven.
First, how exactly can someone force God to do anything?
By placing their self above Him.
And are YOU not choosing christianity over the other belief systems available in the world?? Aren't we all essentailly picking and choosing that which works for ourselves in this regard??
As previously stated, I don't chose Christianity, because it "works" for me. I chose Christianity, because it has higher standards then what I would place on myself, and I see truth in that.
How then can you say that others are making a poor choice if it works for them? How does another's choice of belief even affect you??
Other's beliefs effect you all the time. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 4:43:59 PM | N8
How nice that you found something worthy in my post of addressing.
I said: [ The Bible evolves with each individuals personal interpretation. And for those who would follow, there is a severe lack of will to know for themselves what they might believe.
So read it, interpret it and live the parts that you deem worthy of a good person. In this way, it becomes personal, and evolves to your needs, not to the needs of the masses /]
Your reply
[I wholeheartedly disagree with this view. I'm sorry, but a pick and chose mentallity is an idolotrous one. You are forcing God to conform to you./]
I have been told on many numerous occasions that in order to read and interpret the Bible one must be moved to do so by the Holy Spirit. I find this to be a catch 22, for to find truth that will develop your faith, you must first have faith. How does one go about attaining such faith, when there is no knowledge, except what others have told you? Is this not the same as leading a person, for in your telling are you not giving the information with your own perspective?
ALSO: You speak of saving others from hell, again I must question this, as my understanding is that hell, is simply not existing, in other words, when one dies, one can no longer achieve life in the sight of God. Did it ever occur to you that those who do not believe in God, accept this fate? Why, would you choose to save us from our content existence?
Another thing you wrote, [actions have consequence; therefore, we must have fear, so we can objectively view our actions./]
We teach, or should teach, our children that they are responsible for their own actions. Not only because improper action can harm them, but because the same action can harm others. The fear you see, is never that they are responsible to God, but to act in accordance with the morals and values of society that serve the greater common good, not the good of Christians. When I do something that inflicts harm on others, or nature, I accept responsibility and I TRY TO RIGHT IT, I do not spend my time prostrate before a God begging forgiveness. If accepting punishment for knowingly causing or inflicting harm is part of taking responsibility for our actions, then we have acted knowing and understanding this fact - there was no fear involved. To fear that God will not grant eternal life if you do not believe, is a scare tactic that extends deep into the bonds of family and friends and loved ones.
Imagine what our population would be like, if every time a child did something we did not like, we withheld food or shelter or touch or our love. And then, did not explain why, but still expected them to do it right the next time. That is fear - humans can live an effective life if there is constant fear, so it is up to the individual to come to terms with their own faith and AS I HAVE BEEN TOLD, it is up to God to judge, because NO HUMAN knows for sure they will be one of the chosen to live an eternity in the sight of God. Therefore no human should feel worthy of 'teaching' by any method that which only God knows the answers to. | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 4:44:09 PM |
I don't chose Christianity, because it "works" for me. I chose Christianity, because it has higher standards then what I would place on myself, and I see truth in that. Precisely, so why not allow others the same freedom to choose for themselves then?For if you truly believe this:
if the whole point of us being here, is to understand, that we aren't as different, as some, would have us think. Why would you not be able to allow others that freedom? For if you think about it.. despite any devisive differences, we are all one in our ability to choose for ourselves.
Other's beliefs effect you all the time. True enough.. mine are enriched constantly.. as opposed to threatened | |
|
| shouldnt the bible evolve to encompass what we know now?... and not what we knew then?
Posted: 7/8/2007 4:50:16 PM |
Perfect! So in order for no one to go to Hell, your god can celebrate difference instead of condemning it, right? Since it's more powerful than we are, and it made us in the first place, shouldn't this god just accept difference? No Hell... Problem solved.
Not, if the whole point of us being here, is to understand, that we aren't as different, as some, would have us think.
But since understanding came so long a time after difference, wouldn't it make more sense to think we are here just to be different? Why does there have to be some weirdo motives behind our existence? If your god knows all outcomes how could this be a challenge? You really make no sense to me...
As previously stated, I don't chose Christianity, because it "works" for me. I chose Christianity, because it has higher standards then what I would place on myself, and I see truth in that.
So do countless other faiths and ways... Maybe you should broaden your Horus Sons
Other's beliefs effect you all the time.
That's right... You can learn from them or call them dangerous...
One is an uplifting experience and one causes even further separation. | |
|
|
| Page 5 of 7
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
|
Home
login 
