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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/17/2005 12:06:07 PM | | Well every cloud has a silver lining.... as I mentioned before she has graduated college and moved away to KY, with a great job....her ex married again to divorce a year later losing the house he had from his former marriage, and she now has regained custody of two of her three sons (one is 19 and has moved out on his own)...Rule of three at work, who knows? | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/17/2005 12:33:32 PM | Blessed be the law of three, Im glad to hear it had a happy ending for her, For every harm we do, for every good is returned to us 3 fold.
~Love is the Law~ | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/19/2005 10:01:05 AM | | By definition a Wiccan is breaking the 1st commandment, therefore committing sin. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/19/2005 4:33:59 PM | Excellent point - though I also think it could be breaking the second commandment as well:
Second
"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I The Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love Me and keep My Commandments." | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/19/2005 4:35:13 PM | | Not that I am either Christian or Wiccian, but if I was Wiccian, I wouldn't be worrying what the Christians thought about me. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/19/2005 8:40:01 PM |
By definition a Wiccan is breaking the 1st commandment, therefore committing sin.
Umm... am I the only one who sees a flawed logic in this statement?! | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/19/2005 9:26:08 PM | ^^^no, you aren't, but logic usually doesn't come in to it when you are dealing with zealots of any kind.
nickel - it's "wiccan", not "wiccian". as to your comment about whether or not pagans care what you think - we don't. if it never went any farther than thinking, it wouldn't affect us at all. the problem is that the thoughts are translated into active discrimination and persecution. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/20/2005 6:55:51 AM | Let no one be found among you who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
When Joram saw Jehu he asked, "Have you come in peace, Jehu?" "How can there be peace," Jehu replied, "as long as all the idolatry and witchcraft of your mother Jezebel abound?"
He sacrificed his sons in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil provoking Him to anger.
I will destroy your witchcraft and you will no longer cast spells.
all because of the wanton lust of a harlot, alluring, the mistress of sorceries, who enslaved nations by her prostitution and peoples by her witchcraft.
idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
I think all of the above States clearly it is a Sin??
Like I still have to ask you how can one use the word SIN? If you don't refer to The Holy Bible?
Just a Question, Does any one of you Dare to Answer that Question?
If you do, Start a New thread with that very title, Thank you. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/20/2005 7:34:39 AM | In the voice of the cute little girl from the movie poltergiest: "Heeeee's Baaaaaack."
The original "the Way", started by those who walked beside Jesus, Never persecuted anybody. They were persecuted. They were stoned, (killed) or put into prison for their beliefs, by the Sanhedrin, the sitting theocracy of the Jews. Here is a group of people that had one thing which differed from the religion of the day. They had seen the messiah that could release them from the religious and political hypocracy of the day. The reason I believe that God is a jealous god, is that we are his. He created us, he doesn't want us to worship the false gods set up by the rebellious angels, because it is a lie. In the early days, there were a few people who misunderstood what it really means to belong with God, the same is true today. The kingdom of god is not a spiritual kingdom where you can follow a lie. The book of acts is full of stories where people would pretend to accept Jesus Christ, but still contained evil in their hearts. They would do something evil and be found out. Usually with a resulting tongue lashing from one of the apostles. But that is only one part of the story. The total forgiveness of sin and evil deeds is so special, that anyone who could not percieve the grace of god, The sacrifice of his Son, and the promise of resurrection, and everlasting peace and joy, and still remained in their sin, was not considered worthy. But, they could repent and throw off their evil way and god would forgive them again. The Rebellious angels, the ones that tried to make themselves above god, will do anything to destroy his creation. They will decieve men through the flesh, and through spiritual wonders, even if they could, the very people of god. Jesus Christ does not want a bunch of sunday christians. Jesus Christ wants his people to come out of religious hypocracy and be holy, like he is. Jesus Christ lived as an example of the kind of man that his father would have us all be. He even went down to the river Jordan before he began his ministry and was baptized as a natural man to set the precedent that all should be baptized. Being baptized was like a public demonstration of dieing to the sins of the flesh, and spirit. Baptizm is Burial in Christ. It is signifying our shared death with him. This death is to be against the old sinful nature of our humanness. We are by nature rebellious. We don't know god. We cannot even approach god in our old sinful ways. That which is "natural" is not holy.
When Christians attack, they are not motivated by The loving spirit of god. They are motivated by their distaste of the rebellious angels. But even if they have distaste for someone who is rebelling against God, They still have no right to commit rape, or murder, or to persecute in even the slightest way, anyone who does not have the same understanding of Jesus Christ as they do. I do not have the right to do anyone harm, because I have been bought with a price, my sins have been payed for, by the blood shed by the Death of my savior. All of ceation belongs to god, if I harm it, I am disobeying god.
The Christians that persecute you have lost the true meaning of being redeemed. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/20/2005 8:22:07 AM | Dear Enchantress and others,
The original followers ot "the Way" Did not persecute anyone. They were themselves thrown into prison and often killed by ritual stoning. The Sanhedrin fought Jesus because he pointed out the sins of hypocracy and selfishness. The very Sins commited against you that turn you away from Jesus Christ. They are not the examples that he would have his namesakes provide for you. The reason for the persecution, is that they mistake you for the rebellious angels that created the false gods which "sinful" man worships.
There is a strong tradition of Punishment of evil doers in Judaism because god gave his people the Law in ancient times. In Christianity, The law is superseded by the Power of The Holy Ghost which is to dwell in the followers of Jesus Christ. The Law condemns sin, but The grace of god forgives sin because the price of sin has been paid. Men can be redeemed because the sacrifice for sin was made by Jesus when died for us.
The presence of Jesus Christ among his true followers is so real and strong that even the devils shudder and tremble with fear of him. But the sweetness of his love and the power of his spirit allows us to have free will. If Christians want to force you to believe in Christ, they are setting themselves above god. If God gives you the time to hear his word, and choose to follow him or not, then who is man to force you to believe in Jesus Crhist?
There is time, the time to hear the word, but the end of that age is coming.
The reason that witchcraft of any kind is not tolerated, is that entertaining any other spirit, or service from the spirit world is rebellion. Even the obedient angels will refuse to be worshiped. The Holy Ghost supplies all of the needs of controlling the environment by direct communication with Jesus Christ. Jesus said that when two or more men agree on any one thing on earth, I will do it. Even though The father is above us, Jesus Christ who is the son of God, is a joint heir with us of the promise of everlasting life. He can do this because he shared our human experiences, and set an example of how we are to live. His mission was to pay the ransom for us, to stand in for us, so that we need not die in our sins.
The Christians that persecute you may also be confusing you with the angels of the rebellion, the demonic host that tempts us and lies to us day and night. Satan accuses us before god for the sins that we do. Satans design for us is to share in his ruination which comes about from rebellion against god. He knows that his time on earth is getting very short,
The intensity of his activity will increase. His decieved disciples will grow more numerous.
Because of free will, Satan's disciples will pervert truth and bring back the persecution against
the true believers in the last days in the plan to decieve us if it were possible.
Many of the Christians of today have forgotten about the power of the Holy Ghost. they have forgotten about the love of Jesus Christ. They have forgotten their place in God's plan. Our purpose is to Wage spiritual warfare not against flesh and blood (mankind), but against spiritual wickedness, principalities and powers in high places (the demonic host).
Jesus gave the power to cast out devils, and to heal diseases and tread on serpents and scorpions because the spirit is the real battleground. I have heard about demons attacking powerful christians in physical form and then vanishing. I have also heard about angels appearing and holding conversations and then vanishing. While I have not yet seen that, I have seen Satan make an attempt upon my roomate's life in a car accident, but even though the car was hit so hard that it ended up on it's roof, he and his passenger escaped without harm. Charles had a bruise on his back for which he saw a doctor for two weeks but he is fine. Charles and I feed the homeless in the park one sunday a month.
Christians are supposed to pray for unbelievers, not critisize, taunt, or persecute them. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/20/2005 11:29:09 AM | My goodness tjstaar, you WERE a chatty lil feller this morning wernt you! But everyone's still SOO sure we're not worshipping the same divine body. The important thing to bare in mind is that our's are two beleif system's that have been evolving with the time's since the first men and women looked to the star's and asked if they were alone in the world. From goddess and God's of fish and stag's to the ellabrate intriquit religion's of today. Our beleif stucture's (both of them) have been made by people...We can argue who was behind the evolution of each religion all day, but the fact's are, for all our diffrences 3 thing's can be found we have in common.Bare in mind the founder's of these religion's had never met. Were not meant to have all the answer's. But we do what we can with what we have.
~Let mankind's beauty lie in it's diversity~ | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/20/2005 4:00:14 PM | don't believe in the christian god of evil. don't want or need any of them to pray for me out of false concern. consider it rude.
we - i'm not trying to be mean, but i just can't take it. when you use an s with an apostrophe, it's either to make a contraction or to show possession, not to pluralize a word. compulsive editor, and that kind of stuff makes me nuts. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/20/2005 4:19:26 PM |
Like I still have to ask you how can one use the word SIN? If you don't refer to The Holy Bible?
Just a Question, Does any one of you Dare to Answer that Question?
If you do, Start a New thread with that very title, Thank you.
What? | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/20/2005 6:16:25 PM | Cerulean, it's really up to you. Some zealots will, out of ignorance, condemn you to hell, but Wiccan's don't believe in hell. Do define what Wiccan's believe in, I've included the following:
The American Council of Witches'
"Principles of Wiccan Belief" (1974)
1. We practice rites to attune ourselves with the natural rhythm of life forces marked by the phases of the Moon and the seasonal Quarters and Cross Quarters.
2. We recognize that our intelligence gives us a unique responsibility towards our environment. We seek to live in harmony with Nature, in ecological balance offering fulfillment to life and consciousness within an evolutionary concept.
3. We acknowledge a depth of power far greater than that apparent to the average person. Because it is far greater than ordinary it is sometimes called "supernatural", but we see it as lying within that which is naturally potential to all.
4. We conceive of the Creative Power in the universe as manifesting through polarity-as masculine and feminine-and that this same Creative Power lies in all people, and functions through the interaction of the masculine and feminine. We value neither above the other, knowing each to be supportive of the other. We value sex as pleasure, as the symbol and embodiment of life, and as one of the sources of energies used in magickal practice and religious worship.
5. We recognize both outer and inner, or psychological, worlds -- sometimes known as the Spiritual World, the Collective Unconscious, Inner Planes, etc. -- and we see in the interaction of these two dimensions the basis for paranormal phenomena and magickal exercises. We neglect neither dimension for the other, seeing both as necessary for our fulfillment.
6. We do not recognize any authoritarian hierarchy, but do honor those who teach, respect those who share their greater knowledge and wisdom, and acknowledge those who have courageously given of themselves in leadership.
7. We see religion, magick and wisdom-in-living as being united in the way one views the world and lives within it -- a world view and philosophy of life which we identify as Witchcraft, the Wiccan Way.
8. Calling oneself "Witch" does not make a Witch -- but neither does heredity itself, nor the collecting of titles, degrees and initiations. A Witch seeks to control the forces within her/himself that make life possible in order to live wisely and well without harm to others and in harmony with Nature.
9. We believe in the affirmation and fulfillment of life in a continuation of evolution and development of consciousness, that gives meaning to the Universe we know, and our personal role within it.
10. Our only animosity towards Christianity, or toward any other religion or philosophy of life, is to the extent that its institutions have claimed to be "the only way," and have sought to deny freedom to others and to suppress other ways of religious practice and belief.
11. As American Witches, we are not threatened by debates on the history of the Craft, the origins of various terms, the origins of various aspects of different traditions. We are concerned with our present and our future.
12. We do not accept the concept of absolute evil, nor do we worship any entity known as "Satan" or "the Devil", as defined by Christian tradition. We do not seek power through the suffering of others, nor do we accept that personal benefit can be derived only by denial to another.
13. We believe that we should seek within Nature that which is contributory to our health and well-being.
~Blessed be, to all who wish it so~ | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/20/2005 6:16:33 PM | Thank you for the advice Sidhe, I will keep trying to better myself.
By the way I dont beleive in their God of evil either, you think I dont know what that is? And why would you see their prayer's as insult's? In the end it's possitive well intentioned energy.That kind of stuff makes me nutt's.... | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/20/2005 9:38:29 PM | Dear enchantress,
Thank you for not taking my intentions the wrong way. I can't understand intolerance of good intentions. From the posting of wiccan beliefs the words stand out as to why they were without sympathy in old testament times. No one in God's kingdom is allowed to worship, or draw spiritual energy from nature itself, except of course the food that nourishes our bodies, and for that credit must be given to the creator of all things. Yahweh is not a force both masculine and feminine. Those things are his creation. We are not bodies either male or female. We are spiritual beings having a temporary living experience, until our time has come to pass away. We have a sex in order to reproduce, and be together to raise children, and in our old age to not be alone. Sex is not an element of worship or magic in god's kingdom. The spirit does not need sex, the flesh needs sex. The spirit is greater than the flesh and therefore the spirit does not worship it.
Man has fallen from a higher spiritual status and must be restored. It cannot be done through magic, by the created world of nature. It can only be done by being born again.
John 3:3 Jesus speaks "surly, surly, I say unto thee. Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of god." John 3:5 Jesus said " surly, surly, I say unto you. Except a man be born of the water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." vs 6, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit." vs 7 "marvel not that I said unto thee, ye must be born again." You can't concentrate on the body, on the flesh, and be born of the spirit. The god of this world is the accuser of us before god. if you worship this nature, this world, you are worshiping his domain, you are in his kingdom. Notice I did not say that he owns the world, but was defeated with the rest of the rebellion and cast down to the earth for a certain age.
To address God you would not get his attention without calling his name from your spirit. If you pray to god without calling his name, How will you know who will answer? could it be a rebellious angel? Rememember, A man or woman can call upon the name of Jesus Christ at any time, and recieve his blood washing away rebellion and spiritual darkness, and be totally forgiven regardless of how long one was in rebellion.
So what? so what makes this belief one of substance?
After the resurrection Jesus appeared near his tomb before Mary Magdalene John 20:14, Luke
24: 9,10, Mark 16:9, Matthew 28:1-10.
He appeared to the remaining eleven apsotles Matthew 28:10, Mark 16:14, Luke 24:17, John 21, Acts 1:1-11. He ate and drank food after his resurrection Luke 24:41-43,
John the beloved apostle, the writer of "according to John" witnessed Jesus resurrected and wrote about it John chapter 21.
He appeared to Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus Acts 9:1-8. Saul repented and recieved the holy Ghost and became Paul the apostle vs 9-27.
It's not about belief systems. It is about the son of God dieing for our sins, and rising again.
His promise is that all who believe on him will rise again also unto eternal life. Those that saw him alive went to martyrs deaths preaching that he is risen. The same Holy Ghost that Jesus Christ sent to the apostles he sends today to live within us. There is no place in the secular world where a person can find an understanding of These events. Only through thinking this out, and seeing the history of when and how the gospels were written can a glimmer of understanding come about. The men who wrote the gospels all knew each other Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, they knew Paul who wrote the letters to the churches that he founded and others. Paul wrote about Luke and Mark in 2nd Timothy. Luke wrote about Paul in Acts. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, wrote about Simon Peter in their gospels. Luke was a doctor. After he heard about Jesus Christ, he went and interviewed the people that knew Jesus Luke 1:1-4 because He wanted all of the facts to write the gospel of Luke. The evidence is all here, The Holy ghost is here. Forgiveness of sin is here. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/21/2005 12:51:22 AM | "Dont draw energy from nature it's self" Where are you going to draw it from lol Mar's? This "energy" earth air water and fire, try living with out one.
We have a saying too
"We all come from the goddess, and to her we shall return like a drop of rain." | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/21/2005 5:24:28 AM |
The evidence is all here, The Holy ghost is here. Forgiveness of sin is here.
What evidence specifically? And I'm glad your sins will be forgiven. Wiccan's don't have sin, as we don't believe in it. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/21/2005 5:35:10 AM | | is it a sin to be judgemental didnt God say something about doing onto others as you would have them do onto u | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/21/2005 5:39:53 AM | Dear enchantress,
I'm pretty sure that I can believe in documents written by men who met and walked with the son of God where it was expressed in no uncertain terms that "the word" created the world, and the people. It also says that the world knew him not. Were they talking about this world? The world that is presently within the domain of the rebellion?
This world knows him not, sure is true. Then in Matthew 24:19, Mark 16:15, Luke 24:46-51, Jesus commanded his followers to preach the gospel and baptize the people in all nations. Keep in mind, these were not televangelists, making millions. these men were discipled in the way to renounce sin and clean up their lives. There was no earthly money profit involved in following Jesus. Why did they do it? I would not do that, I would get the best job that I could and save up money, and even go into business for myself. Jesus asked what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul? These men went to their deaths for Jesus Christ. Why? The book of Acts is full of instances where christians were put in prison or stoned for believing in Jesus Christ. Yet they believed. What was so important To Jesus that he would sacrifice his own life? He stated over and over that he was the son of God and people witnessed his miracles, and wrote about them. If he was the son of God, and he had such great abilities, why did he not stay and get rich? why did he not stay and "play the game" with the world and become powerful? It was written that he knew the scriptures backwards and frontwards. Surely he could have been a man of renown basking in all of the pleasures of the world in his day. There is no earthly reason for a man like that to sacrifice his own life, but one. He knew that the life that he would have once he rose again would be greater than his human life. He preached before his death that he would die and rise again by the third day. He also knew that to pay the price for the sins of men, he would have to go as a lamb to the slaughter and die at the hands of wicked men. Jesus stated before he died "no man hath greater love than this, that he would lay down his life for his friends."
That is "the Way."
Organized christianity was predicted by Jesus too. He said in the last days that there would be a great falling away, and the love of many would turn cold. Those that coldly inflict suffering on others will have their day of punishment. If I was to create a stumblingblock for you, that you would dismiss or rebell against God because of my bad example, I would be punished if I did not repent and make amends. When a Christian persecutes anyone for not being a christian, they are directly disobeying Jesus Christ. WE are supposed to reach out with love, Like Jesus, and show the glory of the kingdom of God. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/21/2005 6:23:12 AM | To sleepsong and JenniferJ,
Hi. look, It is commanded of the followers of Jesus to preach and baptize the people of all nations to share with them the kingdom of God. If you carefully read my posts, I never judge anyone. I rely on the spirit of god to guide my answers and postings. The reason that The Holy Bible is called the "Word of God", is that The human witnesses of God's Mercy, Power and Glory wrote those things down in books spanning many centuries. The evidence of the agreement between the disciples of Jesus shows that they did extraordinary things in direct conflict with the natural inclinations of a human being. It is not possible for an ordinary man to have done these things written about them that they did.
This is the viewpoint that I want to share with you: Jesus did not start a judgemental religion. He does not want anyone to be forced to believe in him. He also does not want anyone to be ignorant of who he is, and what he has done for you and everyone else on this earth. He doesn't want your money, he doesn't want your suffering. What he wants is for you to believe in him, That's all.
It doesn't matter to him what you used to believe in. It doesn't matter to him how bad or how good you think you are. It doesn't matter to him how rich or poor you are. He wants to transform you with HIS spirit, not by the teachings of some preacher. The people who truly recieve him are to be transformed, changed for the better. This is part of the evidence that I am talking about. the witnesses of his miracles and resurrection is another part.
One thing about the Holy Ghost, upon recieving it, often signs and wonders occur. There are experiences where a foreigner has been present who understood a different language during a prayer meeting where someone with the Holy Ghost began speaking praises to God in the foriegn language as a witness for the spirit of God. Healings of diseases occur by the laying on of hands. These special gifts are not always present among christians because the faith and disipline of prayer is not in their lives, but they are documented. Some organized denominations still fight the power of the spirirt because they have fallen away from the original Way. When I was growing up, I belonged to a United Pentacostal church. They taught that only they knew the "whole truth" of christianity. That is very common for a group to say that. They taught as near as I can understand the apostaolic way as clearly explained in the new testament. They practiced The gifts of the spirit all of the time. Baptist family members were horrified that I was pentacostal. They would preach that the power of the spirit doesn't exist today. How long are people going to stay believing in Jesus CHrist if there is no power in his spirit to change lives? People want meaning. People want to share the Blessings of god. I know that many people leave the powerless denominations seeking for other more meaningful lives. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 6/21/2005 12:29:54 PM | The author's of the Bible met and walked with the son of god...Fine that explain's how they knew his word's, but how would they know the word's of God?
You can preach to me Tjstaar, if it make's you feel as though your soul will be saved, then I too will have played my part as a healer, I only ask that you not deceive your self into beleiveing your god will out play mine in my heart. It's not my nature. I will never give up the Goddess...ever...
I have the abbillity to put myself into the feeling's of other's, draw on them and help me diagnos problem's of spirit. Ive done so in my limited amount of knowledge of the divine.
The way I see the goddess is as a mother. A mother who all but just a few of her children have turned their back's on her and loved their Lord so that they forgot their mother's name!
But make no mistake, the Goddess too has a dark side. In the Gosple's of Aradia, she become's vengfull and cureses those who have forgotten her.Keep in mind the Diana, is the Queen of Witches, and her curses...are bad, And who can argue, that even now the element's beckon our destruction? The Fairy Sylph's turn air to poison, that earth Gnome dances under our feet,the water Sprit's bring wave's of destruction, and the Salamander play's his game's in the muzzles' of rifle's and in the explosion's of bomb's.
Before you preach of the Evil of nature spirit's, keep in mind that they've been here doing their job's since before chrisain's, before pagan's, and before Witches. They have served us well, and how are the thanked for their trouble? Their cursed and poisoned by Christian's who beleive the earth is here to be ruled and exploited, intead of cherished, and respected.We've cursed them, but make no mistake, we will not go unpunished.
As I said Tjstaar, you can try to convert me all you want,but in the end you'll just have sore typing finger's, as I will NEVER turn my back on my mother. | |
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