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| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 10:37:54 AM | | the word is sanskrit. the old testament was written in several languages. | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 11:04:26 AM | In response to the OP think about it this way....
It seems to me that perhaps the most core and fundamental tenant/principle of the Christian religion is that of forgiveness....
Now that sounds fine and dandy... until you start scratching that nice glossy veneer off.
Apparently there is no hope for us....... unless an all powerful and supposedly benevolent God gives us his grace/forgiveness.
This is a broken and highly egotistical process IMO.
It is not okay for us as lowly humans to have pride... and yet our glorious benefactor can be as prideful and he/she/it wants to be?
If pride is a sin and the one who forgives us our sins is without sin.... how does that work?
I agree that forgiveness can be a great thing….. but why must we be forgiven just to be saved from what we are as living, breathing, men and women?
Religion is a pretty package around a rotten core.
Religion is a man made cacophony of conveniently placed rules and controls.
Can a person charge a God with being prideful or egotistical? I guess I just did… perhaps I’ve screwed myself, or perhaps my questions are the true path to salvation….. if in fact salvation is what any of us seek.
I don’t hate religion I just understand its purpose. | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 11:13:42 AM | <---hates religion, and loves the giggleparts.  | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 54 | |
| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 11:17:51 AM | why do you need salvation from just being a normal human?....... here is why.
because your karmah is bringing you death...because we all have no self control at this point.
so, in god's plan, you can get rid of your bad karmah, as you learn to master your own free will...... after you master it with love, you will stop dying...... your spirit will continually rejuvinate you.
satan made his choice clear....... it was for selfishness, and so he will reap what he is sowing.
is god really egotistical, prideful? | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 11:35:06 AM | Most people think if you are God.... there is no possible way to be those things.... but I'm not convinced...
Perhaps a better way to look at it would be to say, people can not have religion, because people make religion, and people can not create without consideration of their own interests.
God is not religion.
Religion is not God.
Karma is something that if it does what it's suppose to, will not be the end all of your existence. Karma is a waypoint, not the path you take.
Perhaps God has no plan.
I think it's ridiculous to think that infallibility is a desired state.
I also think it's ridiculous to think that we are all that important, or all that unimportant to require salvation.
There are few truly organized religions that don't have underlying dogma's that fit an agenda. Agendas are set and met by those who fret over spilled milk and shiny gold bars.
You preach a good sermon brother craww, but your reasoning is flaccid.
You try and explain why things are the way they are, like many do in their lives. But you fail to see the forest for the trees.....and in so doing your journey ends…. always.
That might sound like I'm making fun of you or something, but I'm not, I'm just stating my view. | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 56 | |
| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 11:58:53 AM | yes, people make religion....... but truth is different, it is not a result of desire.
cause and effect is real ........we are all dying, getting old.
karmah is a law of the universe.
infallibility?....... nope, just self control directed by good motives, ''love''.
it brings the rejuvination by spirit to our flesh.
until we stop bringing bad karmah on ourselves, we will continue to reap destruction.
all important to the universe?...... not at all....... the universe is in the process of cleansing itself of us.
we are only important to the creator who is working with us, teaching us how we and the universe funtions......... he has provided an escape from our own karmah, till we achieve self control by means of love. | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 12:22:00 PM |
yes, people make religion....... but truth is different, it is not a result of desire.
Truth is dependant on those who believe in it.
Truth is not immutable.
Truth is not something that comes out of the box already assembled for fun and profit ages 6 to 12.
You disseminate truth, you evaluate truth, you do not simply say 'this is the truth', before making it your own.
Most people know words... learn them as children in school, yet don't really understand the meaning behind them as adults.
As for your thinking on the universe..... well, I choose to see us as a product of the universe, rather than some kind of unwanted growth you cut off.
God has no need for us, God has no desire to see 'right' or 'wrong' done to anyone or anything, because that matters little to it. God is not interested in being evoked in the name of war or peace. God if in fact something like that exists does not stand to gain or lose by our actions and as such we are perhaps a byproduct of its machinations.
I see God as an entity that pervades all things both positive and negative.
There is no such thing as an entity of pure good or pure evil.
There are only motivations, even on the cosmic scale the electron is motivated to rotate around the nucleus. So to is the Earth motivated to spin around the sun. We are all subject to motivations, and we in turn give off our own, to affect those around us.
My take on things makes more sense to me, but that doesn’t mean it will make sense to anyone else.
I do believe love is a wonderful thing, I think it can make us more than we are alone.
I think that to experience love is to experience the ultimate pleasure and the ultimate pain.
Self control does not have the sort of 'hand in hand' relationship you seem to ascribe between it and love. Love is universal, it can create, and it can destroy. It is perhaps the single most powerful thing to ever exist.... perhaps greater than any God..... perhaps a God in its own right. Perhaps it matters little what we think of it, so much as what we do with it.
People who are entrenched in their beliefs are not only stuck forever in a moment in time, but they are also potentially dangerous in a variety of ways. One person’s truth is another person’s ignorance, and that is the ballet we all dance to, in step, or out. | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 58 | |
| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 1:28:22 PM | truth is truth whether you believe it or not, it doesn't conform to your standards.
the universe operates on truth...... the magnetic forces that cause the electron to spin around the nucleous are set, they are truth...... you are not able to control them with lies or interpretaion.
your interpretation of ''truth'' is in error.
love is different than straight truth, it has a motive.
god is a product of love, and has motives in harmony with it....... god is a free-willed creature, as you are......... you may chose to follow love and truth if you like, or you may dream up a lie, and live it............ you will reap cause and effect. | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 2:05:13 PM | Your speech is a little too airy for me and much too obstinately focused.
Truth is what it is, it is not the end all, and it is not the purpose. Truth is a lie we foist on the reality we spin from day-to-day.
It is obvious that you yourself are too wrapped up in the fight for YOUR ideas that you miss the education your life wishes to give you. We all fall in this trap from time to time… and sometimes we never get out.
Science is the observation and subsequent identification of phenomena.
But what does a scientist do, but interpret the meaning of such phenomena?
You speak of literals and than of belief, you interchange the two when it suits your purpose and then segregate them from each other when they do not.
You think the laws of physics are immutable? No sir, they are not.
Example: A singularity.
In order to explain such a thing, we need a reference or a floor from which to apply the explanation of the observation… this is where quantum mechanics or string theory can help us. But all that is, in the end, is a way for our mind to comprehend the presently incomprehensible. Some day those theories, proofs, and laws, will break down when we find new bits of trivia to amaze our brains.
You THINK what you WANT to be TRUE.
You THINK what you WANT to be FALSE.
Reality is nothing but a shadow of thought, but thought is the reality of purpose.
Purpose is the bedrock of perdition and perdition is a word that means nothing.
Belief is the lack of doubt and doubt is the beginning of clarity.
You see, hear, and feel the grand design, but you never bother to ponder its meaning outside of what fits in your neat packaging.
You THINK you KNOW the PURPOSE of LIFE, but you fail to realize its alms.
You believe so fervently in what you think that there is no room for more and certainly not less.
It is clear to me that you are of one mind and I am of another. That is, as it is, and so to, as it should be.
No harm, no foul. | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 60 | |
| satan again?
Posted: 5/12/2005 8:28:10 PM | are you kidding me?........you believe that the lie is just as good as the truth?
and you claim the truth is a lie that we spin?............ omg......... is it ok if i laugh my ass off.
you can't move an electron with a lie, or an interpretation........ but you can give me a good laugh, like you have been. | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/13/2005 5:20:14 AM | | did you switch to the other side craww? you are now arguing against your previous point. gp's point is that truth is as relative as reality. your truth is not the same as mine, but both are valid to the person in question. | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/13/2005 5:57:23 AM | Do you have no love to spare craww?
You are a hypocrite craww, either that or you are just playing at being one.
Perhaps in your next life, you can figure it out.
I’m through with this for now, as I have no desire to shout at the wind.
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 63 | |
| satan again?
Posted: 5/13/2005 7:22:27 AM | that's right.......... the truth can move an electron, but lies can't.
you can pretend lies will move it, but nothing will happen.
then you can claim truth is just a lie we spin......... but, the truth is strong and will stand.
thanks for the name calling....... par | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:04:14 PM | Well, the Bible says that having any other Gods is a sin. However, you are not Christian - so guess what? You can't be held to that standard. Only God is the one that can judge whether you are pure of heart and worthy of His kingdom, not people.
In my belief system *because you did ask*, unless you believe Christ died on the cross to save your sins, then you're going to be in trouble. But, I don't necessarily think everything a Wiccan believes is wrong. I'm Christian now, but for a time a few years ago I did consider myself to be Wiccan.
Do what you HONESTLY feel is right for you, because you and only you will have to answer to God for your actions/beliefs when you meet Him. And you want to have a good and true response for God, I would assume, no matter who you feel God may be. So if you feel you're on the right path, continue on it. If, however, you feel you're being led another direction, check it out.
As for your parents, I know what it's like for your family growing up to try and force you to go to church. My parents were active in the church (secretary, and elder) and so it was expected of me to go - and growing up, I wasn't happy about it. I feel like I should have been there because I wanted to be not because someone said I had to be. | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/17/2005 7:11:25 PM | Why do so many people want to practice witchcraft? is it because they think that they will gain some power over something?
What about gaining power over yourself first? What about Living a life of peace and joy contentment, love?
Will power over others or over the elements really give you that? Power just breeds the desire for more power, does it not?
The father of the Universe guarantees the greatest power of all. Do you know what that is? | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 66 | |
| satan again?
Posted: 5/17/2005 11:10:02 PM | hmmmmmmm,
the greatest power?
well, it's probably the power to control our own free will with love.... | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/17/2005 11:42:14 PM | I believe that no matter what your religion or belief god will understand. Not everyone is raised into religion. God forgives all if you repent, right? | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/18/2005 3:52:23 AM | | Is the greatest power of all eternal life? | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/18/2005 12:25:55 PM | | ^^^your ignorance is showing. do some research on the old religions before you open your mouth. | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/18/2005 12:32:13 PM | if you chase power for the sake of being powerful, then you will find no end. Just like if you chase wealth in order to be wealthy, you will find no end.
If you chase power in order to do good, then there are two ways you can go. Focus on the means or focus on the ends. You will corrupt yourself if you believe the means can be justified by the ends - say, steal bread in order to feed the hungry or make a pact with the devil in order to gain the power to help your family in a time of crisis. If you, however, make sure the means are always righteous and you don't accept help from dark forces (like the state of Israel accepting help from the Americans... tsk tsk...) then you have no need to worry about corrupting yourself. | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 72 | |
| satan again?
Posted: 5/18/2005 11:14:01 PM | | hey friv......... i liked that | |
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| satan again?
Posted: 5/18/2005 11:15:27 PM | | If you don't mind doing a little reading, you'll find Wicca has nothing to do with "power" over anything but yourself. Discovering our oneness with the elements, with all people, with animals, vegetation, rocks, scrap metal, etc., helps us to tap into our ability to influence the flow of energies to bring about a specific result. I can do it, you can do it, anybody can do it! Living a life of peace, joy, contentment, and love is what Wicca is all about! We use our methods of channeling engergies heal, to tend our own corners of the world and the beings therein. That is the greatest "power" of all, to take responsibility for the kind of world we live in. To use our God given gifts to serve the world. This is the function of the Witch. To serve, especially those who hate us, they need us most. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 74 | |
| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/19/2005 4:43:01 AM | At some stage soon you should put up here the Basic Beliefs of Wicca
There seems to be some confusion about their exact beliefs
ie; comparing Wicca with Devil worship
.. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/24/2005 5:53:19 PM | Of course it isn't a sin to be a wiccan. The whole concept of sin is tool to make one subservant to one who wants power. It's all been about power. I'm sorry but the old testament is just a family history with a lot of embelishment. All you have to do is do some research the answers are there because it's not a fairy tale, there's no reason for anyone to believe something just because someone tells you it's true. As for the new testatment, I think most people put too much emphasis on the messanger and not enough on the message. Over and over and over again, it teaches tolerance, love and forgiveness. The bible is like a chunk of coal, the more you chip away and discard, the brighter the diamond shines.
Too many people have suffered and continue to suffer because others feel it is their right to impose their beliefs on others. Live and let live,
As a gnostic christian I believe that god is within you not "out there", so you don't need someone to tell you, just look inside. As it says in the gnostic gospels, lift a rock and you will find me, split a piece of wood and I am there" | |
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