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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/27/2005 10:39:36 PM | | You either have the worst command of grammar that I have seen, or it is past my bedtime. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/27/2005 11:31:32 PM | what is the greater crime?
Stealing a pack of gum from a corner store?
or
Letting yourself waste away in grief?
--
Stealing a pack of gum doesn't cause that much harm to anyone, but laying in your bed in tears for days on end, spouting out 'why me's and 'oh no's, letting your life attrophy and your surroundings decay - that's a waste of a soul. Someone should intervene in this kind of situation, be it law or no. A sin against the self is still a sin. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/27/2005 11:37:27 PM | LOL! Is that the best you two can do cmon Craww,wheres the bit bout the murderous Pagans,I miss that  | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/28/2005 4:10:33 AM | | Uh oh... looks like his posts are being deleted now. So much for the high-and-mighty attitude. Enjoy your day, lil. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/28/2005 2:06:27 PM | | well, those tablets were outdated by jesus christ though. He said to remember and follow 2 things. To put the Lord above all else, and to treat others as unto oneself(the golden rule). He basically took the ten commandements, and fit all of them into those 2. All of his teachings revolved around those 2 points. There were specifics that he went into sure, but this was his general teaching, and all of those were so ppl couldget the idea of the 2 rules that he put out there. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/28/2005 6:35:07 PM | | (Keeping in mind, of course, that those with religions different than our own are not enemies...) | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/28/2005 9:10:23 PM | LOL! Just me every one of the ten commandments would be something that would be harmfull to another person,"an it harm none do as thou wilt" sums them all up,its just a simpler way of saying the same thing.... | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/28/2005 9:23:20 PM | Not sure, but I do know it is a sin to pratice witch craft.
I do not know alot about wicca but from what I do know they believe in casting spells.
Which is something I have to laugh at everytime I hear it. I always want to ask one of them to shoot lightiing or fireballs from thier hands. LOL. Or use thier magic to move some object.
But as I said I don;t know much about it | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/28/2005 9:30:22 PM | Well evidently not Rabid,perhaps you should take the time to learn about what your condemming before you condem it...  | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 1:57:24 AM | If everyone follows the law "be good to each other" then there'd be no problems in the world. But what does that statement mean? Well, you can take that rule and expand it into the ten commandments. The ten commandments are all specifics on how to be good. But there are still some grey areas, and there are still some who would argue. Therefore more extrapolation is necessary - into the Torah (or Bible) to explain further how to lead a good life. Is that enough? It should be, but look around at the world and you'll see that it isn't. Therefore interpretations must be made, applications revised, new conditions taken into account. Is that enough? Oh no, then they need to be enforced somehow. Not too harsh or it's cruelty, not too lenient or you accomplish nothing. Then what? Then you need to investigate the interpretations and argue them, because with so much extrapolating and interpretations there are bound to be errors. The laws must also be defended from the unenlightened, who live in sin and argue that their way is best because that's the way they follow - and they know no better. The laws must be defended from false prophets and messiahs who would preach against truth for fame or fortune, or through being deceived themselves.
What do people argue against? well, every step. Those that are corrupt to the core would argue against the first step, 'be good to each other', claiming that it's a dog-eat-dog world and everyone must fend for themselves to rise in the evolutionary chain. Then there are the sinners who argue that, well, the ten commandments aren't that great. Idolatry? bah, I can worship a pop star, i'm not hurting anyone... I can worship a golden calf, not like the statue can lead me astray... Illicit sex? We've got condoms now! The rule doesn't apply any more. I can forge physical and emotional bonds with anyone I want, sever them at will. So I leave heartache, that's life. Life is pain.
Then we have false prophets - who preach through the bible, use a pure core to convince the masses, but interpret the word of God poorly. When taken to a radical extreme you can find false messiahs, who in every way seem to make sense, because they lead through a core of truth - but cloud it with emptiness and unenlightenment.
Following that it's sorta grey. You have the ones who reach an enlightened state through the word of God, and at that point, when they understand goodness, they either nitpick the little details that are only significant to those at the top, or work backwards, reinterpreting, defending, rewording, teaching, or any manner of other workings to guide those that are behind/below them.
Then, after reaching that level and ONLY after reaching that level, can you strip away the layers of laws and return to the core. Be good to each other. If you give up on law too early, you might miss something. If you read and understand 10% of the bible then say "yeah, i got that, I'm a good person" and don't go any further.. well, that's 90% that you've missed, and still quite a climb. If you read 90% and say 'well, that's good enough', there's still that 10% that can make you even better.
Achieving complete righteousness is a lifetime quest for some, spanning multiple lifetimes for most. Everyone sins. Nobody's perfect. Everyone will fall sometimes. Does that make you evil? no, that makes you human. What makes you evil is if you feel no remorse for your deeds, if you take no steps to correct them, and don't strive to correct yourself so that it can't happen again. If you fail a test, recognise it as a failure, look at what went wrong, try to fix it. But whatever you do, don't justify it. If you fail, recognise that you have failed, don't justify it away. If you succumb to temptation then it's because the temptation was too great, and your will was not strong enough. Don't dwell, don't fall - instead, take steps to fortify your will. They're just tests, remember that! | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 7:26:08 AM | @Just Me and Free....
"What you are trying to quote is Matt 22.37-40 but these are the most important ones they are by no means the only ones...yet in Luke 11.28 Jesus says"That's true , but the people who are really blessed are the ones who hear and obey God's message!" Now I remember hearing Jesus saying I am not here to change God's Laws but to explain them then added the Love everyone especially your enemies. Unfortunately I am unable to find those words right now"
Actually, I am surprised that you were around to hear Jesus say anything at all. Anyway, YahShua the Messiah, since you want to start quoting things, use the true a proper name of the "savior"....did not say he came to 'enhance the law' he said he did not come to change it but he came to fulfull....
FULFULL means just what it says...to finish it. He was the LAST one to be baptised, the last one to ALL the things commanded in the law, according to biblical mythology, so that NO MORE would people have to live by the law but live THROUGH YahShua, whom you call Jesus. That's what that means.
It amazes me still how some Christians, and by no means ALL Christians are this way, but some...which we call 'fundies'...still quote the bible at people who are NON-Christians, who DO NOT believe the bible is THE Divine Scripture;it's either BUT ONE of many or none at all...and quote verses, which obviously they still don't understand and use them as 'proof'...it's NOT proof especially if it means NOTHING to the person you are debating with. You must find some other 'common ground' that has meaning for both the Christian and the NON Christian alike or the debate is just completely pointless.
Now about "An' it harm none, do as thy will"...No, it is not 'ebonics' as someone so eloquently called 'black english'...it was written as a poem and with a touch of "Middle English" which, perhaps is something that person, who made the derogatory comment might want to investigate...
"An' it harm none, do as thy will"....What exactly does this mean?
Some people take it to mean 'personal interpretation' not unlike the
Christians who say 'well, the bible says this and the bible says
that' and usually, of course it has to do with whatever it is they
are doing...like a means of justification for their actions. Yet they
don't adhere to ALL of what the bible says. They just 'pick and
choose'whatever feels right or is justifiable for their specific need.
We have 2 parts to this...'an'it harm none'...ok, let's talk about
this for a moment...HOW do you go about 'harming none' including
yourself when almost everything you do is some sort of self
inflicting harm, whether it be smoking, drinking, overeating,
improper diet...in some sort of way everyday, we are inflicting harm
upon ourselves. Let's not begin to mention the stresses of this self
infliction could cause, which then could cause us to overact and 'go
off' on a loved one, a friend, a co-worker and so forth...did we
cause harm? Yes, we did. What about a smoker? Ok, you may not be a
mean person and are very nice to everybody everyday but you are
harming your own body and eventually will end up with lung cancer,
which then everyone around you who has ever loved you will suffer
because they must now watch you die....have we harmed them? yes, we
have, and I am just speaking about this in the SIMPLEST of terms. EVERYTHING we do is interconnected in some sort of way.
"An' it harm none" isn't as simple as it sounds. In fact, it's impossible, however, that is where Will, self discipline and maturity come in....we make our own choices and with making those choices WE are responsible for the consequences of OUR actions. For the WITCH, there is NO LOOP HOLE as the Christians have..."I was in the way of Satan...Uh, the Devil made me do it"...NO, NO, NO...that doesn't work for us. We take responsibility for our actions whether they be honorable or not.
anyways...
Part 2:
"Do as thy will"...now the question is 'what is our will"? How
exactly do we know what our will is and what it tells us to do? Whose
will are we talking about? Our own? Well, do any of us really know
what our 'true will' is? For us to know 'our will' we must first
understand ourselves very well and know the path that the Goddess and
the God, The Divine Thought, "GOD" has set before us and strive to walk that path. In our
THOUGHTS and our DEEDS we must try VERY HARD to find this 'will'
and this path and we must do it WITHOUT HARM to another, including
ourselves and it is an almost impossible task to achieve. It takes
great perserverance and discipline and a lifetime to achieve.
So when it comes down to it, the will that is in our hearts is the DIVINE WILL and we, as priests and priestesses of the DIVINE Source/Goddess strive to do
HER will because that is the will of our heart. It is that/She whom has
put that will and desire there, to follow HER and the path SHE has
chosen for us.
So this is why we believe that there is no need for any other
laws/tenents/or rules. This one is almost impossible to do BUT we, as
priests and priestesses it is our duty, it is our service to HER which is a service to ourselves, to the world around us, the earth and humanity....yet, we are the evil ones.
Lucky | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 7:57:51 AM | @rabidcanadian....
"I do not know alot about wicca but from what I do know they believe in casting spells.
Which is something I have to laugh at everytime I hear it. I always want to ask one of them to shoot lightiing or fireballs from thier hands. LOL. Or use thier magic to move some object.
But as I said I don;t know much about it ".....
Certainly, I would say that you don't. I would say that you obviously have watched WAY too much Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Sabrina The Teenage Witch and Charmed...and possibly too many sci-fi horror movies the glorify the hollywood glam of WitchCraft, which by the way, there is no glam. It's actually quite 'boring'.
As far as 'spell casting' goes....that's funny that you would think of it like that...again, no fault of your own due to too much television programming....anyway, in simple terms...
"Casting a spell" is PRAYER. Yes, that's right. But there is a subtle difference which I will give this analogy...
While the Christian asks God for an 'allowance' and hopes they will recieve it, the Witch gets a job and makes his/her own money.
It's a Science, an Art and a Religion. It's psychology, the oldest psychology known to man....do you really think aroma therapy, herbal remedies, color therapy is all tre chic and brand new? Ummm...NO....thousands of years old and TODAY many, many people INCLUDING Christians are into it all BUT it's all part of our evil witchcraft....
Have you ever made a wish and blown out a candle on birthday cake? .....OH my god, you cast a spell!!
Have you ever became so determined you were going to achieve something and convinced yourself you could do it..whatever it was? OH NO, your going to burn in a fiery pit called hell cause you 'cast a spell"!!
People, no matter who you are 'cast spells' everysingle day...the witch however, recognizes the 'scientific matter' of it..(the psychology) directly taps in to it, can get 'creative'(the artform) as they choose to with candles and so forth which merely serve as a focal point for concentration, nothing more..
In short, it's just 'intense concentration on a specific target and desired outcome"....there's your 'spell casting'. Nothing too elaborate, unless you want to make the steps of doing so that way. Otherwise it's the power of the mind, using you will to affect change around you. ...Not unlike the children's story..."The Little Engine That Could"....
I wonder NOW how many people are going to burn in hell since EVERYONE in the universe has practiced spellcasting!!
Lucky | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 8:36:08 AM | One more thing as far as the bible goes, The Emperor Constantine, who made Christianity an official religion of Rome...and who decided what would compose the bible and what would not was a PAGAN.
The stories of Constantine being this miraculous convert were inventions
of a later time. He was simply a shrewd politician who saw that the Roman
religious structure, polluted by years of political meddling, was failing
rapidly while these "Christians" were growing. He felt that, if he were to give
official sanction to this newer sect, that he would gain the allegiance of a
growing segment of his populace. He was right. However, he only made
Christianity "an" official religion of the empire, not "the". That would come
later.
The greatest irony I find in the whole thing is that the council where the books
of the bible were finalized (I believe it was Nicea) was conviened by
Constantine, and who could and who couldn't attend (a decision that directly
dictated just which books would find favour and which ones to be excluded) was
decided by Constantine.
Emperor/Pope Constantine, under the 'guise of devotion' incorporated Pagan celebration and worship into the 'Christian Holidays'.
Thus, the makeup of the Christian bible was determined by a PAGAN. Yes, he was a worshipper of Sol Invictus, "The Invincible Sun", as was every
military leader (and the emperor *was* also a military leader) and soldier in
those days. good old Sol had been quite kind to the Roman Legions, and they
were not about to abandom him lightly.
*Constantine is historically noted to have refused baptism until on his deathbed when he was forced 'against his will' for he had indeed always remained a pagan.
It amazes me though still, that many many so called christians do NOT even know the history behind the bible, yet are so willing to throw out verses like 'weapons' against those who do not act and think like they do. How many people have died "In the name of God"? How many people were murdered and killed 'In the name of God"?
How many 'lash out' in argumentive ways to which could be construed as 'evil' to attack those who are different? I see it all the time and I believe that kind of behavior would bring the one who is called 'Savior' to his knees in heartache and dispair; that the very people who pledge allegiance to his life, whom swear to keep his ways of LOVE, COMPASSION and UNDERSTANDING are using his name to condemn and place themselves above all others.
Lucky | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 10:03:45 AM | I met a wiccan last week, asked if she could do a spell for me, she couldn't. what a waste of a lock of hair...
are the commandments still relevant? i thought jesus hated these pharisees that were gung-ho about these laws, and they could not come to believe he was the son of god, either. so, in fact the biggest defenders of those two tablets (they look kinda heavy for an old guy to be carrying them down a mountain, i think...but that's hollywood anyways) at the time of the christ could be seen as false prophets. I kinda skimmed through the details of the bible, taking only the philosophical messages. i can see there are a few people here that can fill in the blanks alot better than i, so i'd like to know what you think of my conclusion... | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 10:50:47 AM | | I'm Wiccan, so is it a sin to be a Wiccan? Not at all. everyone has their own path that they must follow in life, whether it be religion of otherwise. Not one religion is right for everybody. Personally I was raised Catholic and never really agreed with the teachings of the church. So I converted and have been a practicing Wiccan for 8 years now. The whole time my family knew, at first they were kinda leery about it, but I sat down and explained the religion to them and basically told them what it was all about. It's not "satanism" like some uneducated people would lead you to believe. Most of the people that say negative comments about Wicca and Paganism usually are very ignorant to what the religion actually is. Basically my philosophy on religion is, follow your heart, worship the way that you want to, and respect other peoples right to chose the religion that they desire. In a perfect world thats how it would be, but you'll always find a##holes who are going to bash things that they know nothing about just to make themselves feel better, but oh well. such is life. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 11:51:57 AM | I am not comdemming it just commenting on it. From a Christian point of view yes wicca is a sin. Anything to do with witchcraft is the devils way. That is according to Christian beliefs not not own.
But I myself think wicca is a joke. My ex tried it and printed out a bunch of "spells" and I couldn't stop from laughing at them. Now don;t get me wrong I am in no way trying to slam anyone for thier beliefs in wicca, personally I just don;t think candles and blowing smoke around does anything to make one more likely to do something or get what they want. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 1:04:35 PM | if the bible condemns it, obviously there's something to it. Witchcraft can be very powerful, just like prayer can bring about miracles. Not the lightning, fire and brimstone, levitation kind of magic - that's way beyond current human comprehension. Of course, nowadays the masses have no exposure to real magic, and aren't taught the true power of prayer.
Witches hate it, by the way, when you ask them to prove their faith. In fact, most people hate it when they are asked to prove their faiths. If you approach with a skeptical eye and look like the kind of person that just wants to be proven right, there's no point.
when you approached her, did you say something like "Alright, if you're a witch - cast a spell." If you really want to experience witchcraft, approach instead with an open mind and be willing to accept their truth. Ask not if they can cast a spell, ask sincerely if they can turn you into a believer. Unless you have the want and the will to walk down that path, there is no way for you to accept it.
rabidcanadian: and YOU! If you want to make a smoke bomb you don't just grab a chemistry set and start randomly mixing chemicals, you start with the fundamentals. Learn how the ingredients work from a chemical point of view. Then, when everything makes sense, making a smoke bomb will be as natural as riding a bike. Same with magic. People actually STUDY to become witches, it's not just a matter of wearing black clothes, having a black cat, and throwing random junk into a cauldron. | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 1:44:05 PM | | NP, as I stated I really don't know the first thing about wicca. Just what my ex showed me and some of the things I looked over. | |
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jeff67
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Joined: 5/3/2005
Msg: 123 | |
| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 1:52:04 PM | | NO........being wiccan is another way of honoring god or spirit and all they he created ......its no more wrong than christianity......or any other religion.....its about what feels right in your soul and heart. | |
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jeff67
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Joined: 5/3/2005
Msg: 124 | |
| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 1:57:03 PM | | well rabid you are wrong about witchcraft or wicca being the devils way......the verse in the bible that states 'thout shoult not suffer a witch to live' has actually been edited by King james....because of his great fear of witches......look it up if you dont believe me | |
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| is it sin to be a wiccan?
Posted: 5/29/2005 1:57:38 PM |
is it sin to be a wiccan?
Well, first reaction is "no, of course not..." But then, this question doesn't really make sense. Sin according to who's faith?!! | |
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