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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/10/2008 4:24:04 PM | I have read quite a lots of posts from Almondcookie on race relationships.
I find it very interesting that she seems so bitter because white guys dont want to date her ..and she doesnt date black men. what a double standard!
You have a preference to date white guys but you do not understand why the white guy has a preference not to date you?
Should the black men now be angry about you not having them as a preference?
Look, Im a black guy and really have no problem whatsoever with interracial dating. I date people according to their gender..and then the physical chemistry ..then personality! EVERY person has the choice to have a preference. I dont see anything wrong if someone is for or against dating people based on their race. Its called PREFERENCES!!! | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:51:07 AM | Maybe the main point is that a lot of white people still have low opinions of us so best just avoid them along with other people who can't appreciate you for who and/or what you are.
Or maybe the main point is that a lot of white men aren't willing to enter relationships with us (for whatever reason) so best just avoid them as well - or treat them like human beings and if they are among those open and interested they will show us. | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/11/2008 11:50:47 AM |
Please note this is not the "Would you date a female cop thread". We have already been asked by at least one moderator to stay on topic
Cute...... now you want to follow rules and stay on topic.
**sighs**
Maybe the main point is that a lot of white people still have low opinions of us so best just avoid them along with other people who can't appreciate you for who and/or what you are
I'll agree with you in regards to a lot of white people having low opinions. Those white people are usually the type of people who are not very well respected by the white people who don't have issue with race, colour or ethnicity.
I attended a few social functions over the past weeks. There were many minorities in attendance - the events were open to everyone. However, I failed to notice any black people attending.
That in itself is an issue. If black people are not there... they can't be asked out for a date.
**food for thought** | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:30:55 PM | Even when we are there we are not asked so why would we bother going? I no longer bother with singles events no matter who is holding them.
Damn tedious waste of an evening.
I happen to have some friends who grew up in your neck of the woods...the mentality is WORSE than redneck so why would any Black or Asian person time going to event after event just to be ignored?
<div class='quote'>Or maybe the main point is that a lot of white men aren't willing to enter relationships with us (for whatever reason) so best just avoid them as well - or treat them like human beings and if they are among those open and interested they will show us.
I agree 100%. | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:30:11 PM |
Even when we are there we are not asked so why would we bother going? I no longer bother with singles events no matter who is holding them.
Damn tedious waste of an evening.
Yet... you'll spend a tedious waste of your time whining and complaining about you being "victim" of the white man. I'm beginnning to see how the topic of this thread holds weight with respect to some black women's attitude.
I don't think anything is good enough for you.
I happen to have some friends who grew up in your neck of the woods...the mentality is WORSE than redneck so why would any Black or Asian person time going to event after event just to be ignored?
**puts on a plaid shirt and grabs a pitchfork ... then opens a beer with my daddy's dentures**
You obviously don't have the same black friends as I do - judging by their attitude vs your attitude. Besides, I think it's quite clear who the intolerant one is between you and I.
Hence, once again, your attitude gives merit to this thread topic.... almost. I think you'll bless Asian interracial relationships.
In my opinion, I think the moderators should watch your behaviour in these threads... you're promoting intolerance. | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:01:53 PM | Someone will always find a reason why someone won't date them. We need to look within our selves and figure THAT out. Whining on a forum about "poor me" isn't going to help you win any dates. It would be like me sitting here saying " Poor me, nobody wants to date a fat chick". Like one of the posters have said before....personal preference. If a man/woman won't date you because of your outward appearance, whether it's your skin colour, your stature ..your height....whatever the case me be...it's THEIR loss, not your's.
Before anyone flames me...I KNOW there is a difference between ethnicity and weight. You can't change ethnicity, weight CAN be changed with hard work (unless a medical condition) BUT....my point is..........
You can't change other people and their preferences. | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:04:38 PM | Bdancer/almond cookie: no offense, but I think that you are suffering from confirmation bias - in that you are ignoring evidence/arguments that run counter to your own regardless of their strength. Almondcookie - toronto is one of the most multicultural city in the world - where members of every race intermingle with each other. Hardly the hotbed for discrimination. B_dancer - much of what I said could be applied to the UK, especially London.
Way back in january, I commented in this thread and I'm surprised to see this thread still going on. If nobody is asking you out, maybe it's got nothing to do with the colour of your skin, but everything to do with your myopia | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/11/2008 11:30:59 PM |
Way back in january, I commented in this thread and I'm surprised to see this thread still going on. If nobody is asking you out, maybe it's got nothing to do with the colour of your skin, but everything to do with your myopia
Was that bit addressed to me? Men of all races ask me out I'm not moaning about anything. I do think it has to be recognized that people have preferences and you are much more likely to see people of any race exclude black women, or have preferences for other types of women. that doesn't mean everyone feels that way and in fact there are some people of all races that have a preference for black women.
I do think comparatively we are at a disadvantage, at least when taken as a group, that doesn't necessarily apply indivdually though.
For the record I'm not against interracial relationships at all, live and let live I say | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:51:22 PM | I will first admit to not reading this entire thread as after a page or two, the arguments were all the same. One side isn't bothering to listen to the other and vice versa, because both are correct. There are lots of white men that won't date black women, and vice versa, just as there are black men that will only date white women and vice versa. Prejudice is everywhere you look. It sucks, but is a fact of life. My recommendation, think globally (promote good relations between all races, creeds, colours, orientations, and any other differentiation) and act locally (promote diversity at work, don't judge another by how they look, befriend all sorts of people, volunteer for organizations that promote the same).
It is highly unlikely that you will change a grown adult to think other than how they do without a monumental act, so don't kill yourself trying. Make sure that younger generations are more open to diversity and racial harmony and eventually change will come about. But when I see statements like "Maybe the main point is that a lot of white people still have low opinions of us so best just avoid them along with other people who can't appreciate you for who and/or what you are", it makes me sad, frankly. You've just painted all white people with the same brush, and it's quite offensive to me as a white guy. How about just avoiding those white people that feel that way? I know it's easier said than done, but anything worth while isn't simple or easy. So what that you have to get to know some white people to find ones that you get along with? The same may be said in reverse.
Listen, I'm not here to preach that everyone should just get along. Frankly, the racist/prejudiced jackasses can stay where they are and not spoil my party. I love meeting women of all races and if these idiots are scaring them away from me then they need to leave! I have a hard enough time meeting quality women without them getting in the way! But, if you are going to spew racial hatred and prejudice, I'm just not going to listen because it is highly unlikely that you will listen to me. If you are open to honest discussion and willing to listen and learn as well as teach, by all means I'd love to talk.
"I believe the children are our future,
teach them well and let them lead the way....."
Okay, that last part was very lame, but I guess so am I.  | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:21:39 PM | You obviously don't have the same black friends as I do - judging by their attitude vs your attitude. Besides, I think it's quite clear who the intolerant one is between you and I.
Hence, once again, your attitude gives merit to this thread topic.... almost. I think you'll bless Asian interracial relationships.
In my opinion, I think the moderators should watch your behaviour in these threads... you're promoting intolerance.
Excuse me!! Now where exactl have I done that. I have spoken out boldly and consistently against racial intolerance in this thread and others. I have had the cahones to call it what it is and not sugarcoat it with a polite venerr of "personal preference". The only person who seems to have an issue with things being called as they are is YOU!! You are not Black and certainly not a Black woman so how would you know WHAT Black women experience. Also the track record for your neck of the woods wrt racial discrimination and prejudice speaks for itself. One does not have to search very far on the internet to confirm that.
Almondcookie - toronto is one of the most multicultural city in the world - where members of every race intermingle with each other.
Within certain bounderies...well defined boudaries. Yes Black men do date White women but one sees relatively few WHite men with Black women. Also, try walking into any of the major corporations in this city and see the pitiful track record when it comes to promoting Women and members of visible minority groups and you'll see just how tolerant this so called multicultural city is. The variety of people walking around on the street or riding the city tells you NOTHING about whether or not the playing field is level. Jackass inna Toronto say "Dis ground NOH LEVEL!!" | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:07:33 AM |
. But when I see statements like "Maybe the main point is that a lot of white people still have low opinions of us so best just avoid them along with other people who can't appreciate you for who and/or what you are", it makes me sad, frankly. You've just painted all white people with the same brush, and it's quite offensive to me as a white guy.
I have to disagree that this statement paints all white people with the same brush. A LOT does not equal ALL. How is that painting all white people with the same brush? Not to mention the use of the word 'maybe' .
How about just avoiding those white people that feel that way? I know it's easier said than done, but anything worth while isn't simple or easy. So what that you have to get to know some white people to find ones that you get along with?
Please read the entire post before reacting - immediately following the original statement you took offense to was 'so best just avoid them along with other people who can't appreciate you for who and/or what you are.' Which sounds an awful lot like the above quote.
Not to mention the rest of my post that states 'Or maybe the main point is that a lot of white men aren't willing to enter relationships with us (for whatever reason) so best just avoid them as well - or treat them like human beings and if they are among those open and interested they will show us.'
It seems you read only bits of that post, formed and opinion and didn't chose to process the rest. Personally I feel like you did not listen to me due to what you assumed I was saying. | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/14/2008 3:37:56 PM |
It seems you read only bits of that post, formed and opinion and didn't chose to process the rest. Personally I feel like you did not listen to me due to what you assumed I was saying.
No, actually not the case. What happened is I read your statement about avoiding "them" as in avoiding "white people" because of how it was worded. Not a big deal, and I apologize for misreading what you wrote. I do notice that you also chose to only react to one part of my statement as well considering I did say much more than that.
I think that ultimately you and I agree that there are racist people from all cultures/races and that not feeding into their racist views by paying them attention is probably the best way to deal with them. B-Dancer, I appreciate that you have probably faced much more racism than I have or ever will and I probably cannot fully understand what you have faced. I'm a white male, I can't help it, genetics are a **** when it comes to that. I would like to think that I wouldn't be racist toward you because you are black, and very likely I wouldn't. But, it doesn't mean I would like you for certain and that the reasons are likely that it is because of something else besides race. But I don't know you, so I guess until I do I can't tell. In other words, I would rather give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are a good person and let you prove to me otherwise if that is the case.
Although there have been a lot of borderline hurtful and possibly racist things said in this post, I like that several people have opened up and had open discussion about race. Dialog has to begin somewhere, and sometimes it is born out of the most unlikely of places. | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:54:56 AM | I don't live in Canada; I live in the Northeast United States, in Central Pennsylvania, but I am understanding very well some of the things that AlmondCookie is saying that seem to be "universal truths."
White men in Central Pennsylvania want to "be with" black women sexually (on the "down low"), but when it comes to out-and-out dating and marriage, it is highly unlikely that it will happen, and if it does, the black woman generally has to be three, four, or five levels "higher" than the white guy....they expect more from their African-American female spouses then they would of a Caucasian or Asian woman. I.E., if they would have married a white woman with a high school diploma, they want the black woman to have a Master's Degree (or two).
I have given up on going to singles events, too....because they just don't work for me as an African-American woman.....I have heard the same from other professional, accomplished, younger African-American women...... | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/16/2008 1:06:36 PM |
White men in Central Pennsylvania want to "be with" black women sexually (on the "down low"), but when it comes to out-and-out dating and marriage, it is highly unlikely that it will happen, and if it does, the black woman generally has to be three, four, or five levels "higher" than the white guy
Overall, I think some of the conclusions drawn may not be that far fetched. However, without personally interviewing white guys dating black girls and black girls dating white guys (as to their reasons for dating), white guys who will not date black girls or black girls who reject interracial dating, you can only assume your conclusion as theory, for the most part.
I'm not going to agree with your conclusion posted above about black women needing to be five levels higher than the white guy. If your assumption were true, why are there so many threads about men being intimidated by"confident, educated, independant women".... by white women who also claim they can't establish relationships?
Do thread searches... you'll find what I say is true.
As I read some comments coming from some of the black women I can't help but think their own mindset has created a barrier. I'm not saying they are incorrect in some of their conclusions. I am simply stating I sense there to be a bit of an attiude on this particular topic thus, creating credibility on the issue.
I find it interesting that white men are the "target". Is not Mexican, Latino, Indian (native and mid-east), Polynesian men (to name a few) collectively non-black and considered interracial when dating? Why all the focus on white men?
The fact that someone suggested Asian men are sufferring while Asian men born in North America are possibly developing a "White man" perspective on black women is ridiculous. I think someone's self-perception plays a big roll in that conclusion. Not to mention her attraction to Asian men as I notice her post in some other thread.
I have given up on going to singles events, too....because they just don't work for me as an African-American woman.....I have heard the same from other professional, accomplished, younger African-American women.....
They don't work for you because you are African-American? If you weren't African-American are you suggesting these events "would" wprk for you?
Maybe browse female profiles... you'll find a lot of white women having problems getting things to "work for them".
Maybe I can't accept your viewpoint because I am not prejudice towards though who don't act prejudice and resentful. Most of the people I choose to associate with are not (don't show signs of) prejudice. As they say, "Show me the type of friends you have and I can tell you what type of person you are." | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/16/2008 6:06:44 PM | I remember watching a video in class that someone had put up on YouTube about interracial dating.
One of the university students interviewed said something along the lines of, "I have no problem with interracial dating, but it bothers me when I see a black man dating a white woman... or... any other woman... who isn't black." The entire class laughed at that.
There's obviously an issue of resentment surrounding the whole black-man + non-black-woman dating thing.
Since the name of this thread seems to be screaming for Black women's opinions, I will say that I am not against inter-species relationships (cuz honestly, that's how some ppl here are making it sound).
Are we all so different that we need to further separate ourselves than we already have been in the past? It's 2008. Get over it.
I do see more black men with women of other colours (cuz really that's the only judgement I can make based on a glance. Go to Jamaica or Cuba, for example. All skin colours, but they're all bound by the same cultural identity). But the truth is also that I do see black women with men of other colours.
I have black female friends who have never dated black men. And they get flack for it. From black men. So it isn't a one-sided issue.
What it *IS* is an old, played-out issue that people need to give a rest. They won't, cuz it brings excitement into their lives (I guess), but honestly. | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/16/2008 10:56:02 PM | There's obviously an issue of resentment surrounding the whole black-man + non-black-woman dating thing
I've run across such attitudes with non-black people. After listening to the ridiculous reasons for disliking such relationships I've always replied with sarcastic remarks like, "You're just pissed off because black men have a bigger penis..... and a better personality"
Maybe I should have given them a penis enlarger and suggest they go to "Charm School" .... LOL!
I will say that I am not against inter-species relationships
^^^ That's the funniest comment in this thread - lol. At first, I thought you were recommending beastiality - lol! | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/17/2008 6:42:42 AM | Being a white man, I have nothing to say about the topic as stated. As a young man I joined the civil rights movement but never had a relationship with a black woman. I met several I took some interest in, but none were interested. Of course in those days predjudice was more open and virulent than it is now. I have two boys in their late teens and we live in a multi-ethnic area. I see in them and their friends a different attitude, that race is not that big a deal.
So would I date a black lady? I suppose I would and our racial difference would be one more thing to talk about. There are all kinds of reasons why a man and a woman don't get along. I don't see being from different races being any more important than anything else. | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:37:01 PM | [For the record, I am not the only woman who is not White who has posted about the constant rejection women of colour receive on here. There are some exceptions of course but the majority of White men to whom one writes don't respond or say that they are not prepared to give consideration to a woman who isn't White for anything other than friendship]
For the record
I have email some non-white women and
find they either dont take me serious
or cant even be bothered to respond
even only as a friend
I find the only non-white women I know
are from either work or friends of friends
I find it is has been harder to meet and or date
non-white women not just on this site
but in general
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| MORE Black and White
Posted: 6/16/2008 10:30:33 AM | Just looking to have the last word on this thread... LOL! Sorry for the delay, I see from the discussion since my last post that things have taken some amusing twists and turns. If folks bother to read the entire thread though, there are some pretty good perspectives with some serious thought behind them that have been expressed here. Anyway...
ABOUT ITALIANS...
JordanMardan Msg: 88... So one group of whites invalidates my statement?!
The reason I've kept hammering away at Italians ought to be very clear. Italians are comfortably covered by the "white" identy you seem to want to impose but there is a stereotype of Italians -- as I'm sure you are aware -- that specifically challenges your presentation of all "whites" as having an Anglo stiff upper lip. So, yes, I brought up an ethnic "group of whites" to question your generalization. Let's be honest here, I could have just as easily brought up Spaniards but given your American-centric worldview, that would be risking them being categorized as Latinos. I've alluded before to the fact that a Spaniard might have difficulty with that. The point to take away from this is simply that the foundation of your presentation of the repressed racism you ascribe to "whites" is a stereotypical description of "whites" that doesn't readily apply to a significant number of "whites" and that puts your claims into serious doubt from the very beginning.
mindmyownbusiness Msg: 93... Yes, Jordan: directness is not a talent of whites in general; Italians are the exception to the rule...
But Italians are not the only exception. Most southern Europeans have such a reputation.
ABOUT "WHITE" RACISM... from JordanMardan Msg: 88
Where is your evidence that they are not racist?! ...You don't have any.
The burden of proof is not on the accused to prove innocence. It is on the accuser to prove guilt. All the evidence provided so far falls rather short of that goal. References to exceptional cases, whose views are nothing short of incredible, do not constitute a sound basis for drawing general conclusions yet that is all that has been brought forward as proof. If you have "surveys" and "stats" to prop up your claims about "white" racism, by all means post links. If you believe you can "obiterate" my comments with evidence, don't just say it, do it.
Up to now, the only so-called evidence you have offered seems to rest on rather wild extrapolations of anecdotal claims based on people that are "angry, excited, or drunk" or certifiably insane. Beyond that, you have pointed mostly to lunatic fringe ideologues to bolster your argument.
I still say "the person has lost the ability to suppress racist beliefs, which is different from "evidence of suppressed beliefs."
Let me just repeat a couple paragraphs written before, since you seem intent on not addressing the point:
Maybe they are social creatures and have been socialized to believe such expressions will cause hurt. Here, let me explain something. For words to be hurtful requires the listener to be socially conditioned to receive those words as hurtful. Within a single culture context, the chances are also good that the speaker is socially conditioned to know what words are going to be hurtful. It's one of the reasons that insults don't always translate well -- and sometimes come across as funny rather than belligerent.
People that are "angry, excited, or drunk" or certifiably insane are not digging "down deep" to make whatever comments they make. They are simply drawing on superficial social conditioning. In effect, the conclusion to draw is the opposite of that made by some posters here.
Despite your paragraph, why else say something like that if the intent is not to cause pain, hurt, etc.?
The "paragraph" you seem comfortable ignoring, essentially reposted above, addresses your assertion that the exceptional cases you keep pointing up as evidence for your general claim of racism are not evidence of people who "dig down deep to express something to hurt others." Rather, those examples support my claim that your case studies are merely expressing what they have been socialized to believe are expressions which will cause hurt. We agree that the intent of the anecdotes you present is "to cause pain, hurt, etc." What we disagree about is the depth these individuals are digging to. I would argue they are drawing on superficial terms learned from their socialization, not deeply rooted beliefs. The reasons I make that argument have been stated several times now.
Your flawed argument is rooted in how you are categorizing "angry, excited, drunk, or insane people".....as if those labels are their primary identification.
Are you telling me that I should take seriously comments made by a person who is drunk? Let's say, for example, that a drunk tells me that s/he is okay to drive. Does this constitute evidence of a person that "has lost the ability to suppress" driving ability "beliefs" that are deeply held? Or should I simply believe that the person is too drunk to know what s/he is talking about?
As an aside, I happen to have met people who will tell anyone that listens that they drive just fine when drunk. They honestly believe that. Odd, isn't it, that they have no problem expressing that belief when they are not drunk?
When I write the term whites, I'm NOT referring to each and every white person... When I use the term I'm referring to an "overwhelming majority."
So what percentage constitutes an overwhelming majority? Just to throw in some contrary anecdotal evidence, consider that in the final Democratic primary exit polls reported on CNN they said that 7% of respondents indicated that "race" was a factor in their ballot. All things considered, that fits rather comfortably with the 95% of "whites" not holding racist beliefs comment made before. Consider this off-the-cuff comment a present ;)
By the way, I notice the "k" on your keyboard is sticking again. And the correct spelling of "Amerika" is with a "c" -- as in America.
...why do you keep citing exceptions to the rules...as if they somehow invalidate the norms or overwhelmng majorities I'm referring to?!
Given your determination to continue to defend using "angry, excited, drunk, or insane people" as the basis of your generalizations, I think you might want to reconsider who is "citing exceptions to the rules."
I have NEVER written or implied that "all whites have power." I know that.
Perhaps. You made a positive reference to an internet source that made exactly that point.
These people have nothing in common with those whites who can afford to sail around the world...
I'm glad we're starting to move towards some agreement on substantive issues in this part of your response. However, let me just point up something. The really wealthy include blacks, Asians, South Asians (formerly whites) as well as "whites" and that ought to bring home the point that color is just not the issue to be focused on. Neither of us have much in common with Opra either.
However, the point you appear to be oblivious to is that fact that rich whites and the poor and middle classes of whites work as a team to keep other groups down.
Okay. Let's consider this claim seriously. If that is the case, and to a limited extent, I would say there is at least a basis for such a case, then the challenge is to bring into question the utility of racial identity. In my opinion, you do not achieve this by furthering discussion of racial observation. You do it by emphasizing the common interests that are achievable through the building of an alliance. If, as you seem comfortable doing, you emphasize the "color line" rather than say for example the poverty line, then you are simply reinforcing the very divisions you seem at cogent moments to recognize as being non-sense.
I don't susbcribe to being "colorblind." It's not the color but the meaning.
We're not all that far apart on this point -- believe it or not. The important thing to be aware of is that emphasis produces meaning too. The group of intellectuals that dreamed up some of the non-sense you've referenced here fail to recognize that in the process of attaching import to color, there is weight given to color as having significance and that will generate a negative reaction from the very groups that could be your strongest allies. The same line of reasoning is applicable to some feminist thinking. In my opinion, there is a need to bring about a rather different realization. That is, it is necessary to reduce the significance of any meaning that is attached to color and replace it with an awareness of more fundemental divisions in society. So, to favor being colorblind, for me, is to favor reducing the "meaning" attached to color by emphasizing the common ground instead.
There is no way that only 5% of the white population could carry out all the forms of discrimination experienced in all 50 states.
Why? A lot less than 5% of the population dominate the political and economic spheres, here in Canada as well as the US and most other countries. I think what you really need to wonder about is whether the story of race is simply another tool aimed at causing power-less individuals to remain arbitrarily divided for the sake of maintaining the power-ful in their positions. The secret is not in building interracial alliances but to break down the attachment of significance to ethnicity in the larger struggle for power in society.
thesecretofjoy Msg: 123... I am here to tell you that as a white male you only know what it is like to be just that, a white male. You cannot understand the experience of a black female in any way and to suggest that you do is offensive. I suppose you also know all about the experience of childbirth.
I realize this comment is not directed at me, but... That's just another way of trying to impose your opinion based on arbitrary claim to authority. Unfortunately for you, to carry this reasoning to its logical conclusion leaves us only able to to comment on ourselves since no one is able to objectively have anyone else's life experience. Of course, that is nonsense. Anyone willing to learn is at least able to empathize and achieve some level of understanding. A man can "know all about the experience of childbirth" without actually having to birth a child. Are you suggesting otherwise?
thesecretofjoy Msg: 123... As for believing that, while institutional racism exists, but most individuals don't support it, that's just crazy!
No, it is not crazy. In fact, it is well understood. Let me give you an extreme example. Hitler, during the height of the Holocaust, had a list of over 1000 Jews who he considered Aryans. Most in the Nazi heirarchy had similar lists. While they doggedly persued the extermination of Jews, on a nominally racial basis, institutionally, they made sweeping exceptions on a personal level. Get it?
thesecretofjoy Msg: 123... You are separating the individual from the society as a whole, which, I might add, is a very white way of thinking.
Really? And the basis for this assertion would be, what? Analysis of individual behavior at an institutional or social level is not necessarily equatable to an individual's behavior at a personal level.
thesecretofjoy Msg: 123... As a woman who was raised in upper middle-class whiteness, I completely agree with and support the views of Noel Ignatiev.
LOL! You go then... gurrrl. Ignorantiev is a member of the lunatic fringe in my opinion and ranks up there with the likes of Dorkin for well educated stupid people -- with serious mental issues.
thesecretofjoy Msg: 123... I can absolutely defend the claim that "most middle-and upper-class whites bend over backwards to hide their racist beliefs"
So give us some anecdotal evidence, or documentary evidence if you can, that supports your claim. So far, all that this thread has managed to produce is a rather limited reference to "angry, excited, drunk, or insane people" in trying to support such a claim. What have you got?
almondcookie Msg: 129... My I. First you said that it was because of statements that thesecretofjoy made that you don't date Black women.
Again, this isn't a comment directed at me but... Reading all the comments made, I got the impression that My I was saying nothing of dating a "black" woman. He was making clear that he would not date thesecretofjoy. Reading further, I almost feel he was flirting with starfun7 -- though I don't find a record of posts by that identity.
What should be noted however, is the emphasis on the personality that is being perceived. This relates back to the OP and the question raised since it has never been made clear whether his perception of the "looks" he got was based on what he believed or something else. | |
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| MORE Black and White
Posted: 6/16/2008 11:42:20 AM |
I have given up on going to singles events, too....because they just don't work for me as an African-American woman.....I have heard the same from other professional, accomplished, younger African-American women......
Me too. It's a waste of time. I am not African-American and I am based in Toronto not the USA and it's the same story up here.
As I read some comments coming from some of the black women I can't help but think their own mindset has created a barrier. I'm not saying they are incorrect in some of their conclusions. I am simply stating I sense there to be a bit of an attiude on this particular topic thus, creating credibility on the issue.
This is a load of garbage. I was raised to not really even think about race. I certainly did not expect to face rejection. It came as a real shock to me. It is the White men who are doing the discriminating and excluding. Of course, like many, you like to have it both ways. Reject no make that refuse to even consider dating any woman who is Black, excuse it as "personal preference" and then blame the women...."oh it must be there fault". Such a load of garbage and I am sick of hearing it. If it's mindset, then why is it that one only has to jump on a plane and travel anywhere BUT North America and immediately men are showing an interest? Trust me the racist, brainwashed men are the problem. NOT the Black women
I find it interesting that white men are the "target". Is not Mexican, Latino, Indian (native and mid-east), Polynesian men (to name a few) collectively non-black and considered interracial when dating? Why all the focus on white men?
HELLO, if one is raised in a neighbourhood in which the guys are all White, who do you suggest that people focus on...little green men from MARS!! Thank God that there has been more immigration to Canada and I am no longer stuck in a community in which all the men are White. That will not stop me from speaking out against the fact that the overwhelming majority of them are racist through and through.
The fact that someone suggested Asian men are sufferring while Asian men born in North America are possibly developing a "White man" perspective on black women is ridiculous. I think someone's self-perception plays a big roll in that conclusion. Not to mention her attraction to Asian men as I notice her post in some other thread.
Yes I do find Asian men attractive, and Black men, and Middle Eastern men, and East Indian men, and Latin American men. Is that a problem? Asian men in North America ARE developing a "White man" perspective on black women. Browse the profiles in which men state their preference by race. VERY few of the Asian men and almost none of the White men ever list Black. They are a brainwashed lot for the most part. Trust me, the few who do, for the most part, weren't raised in North America. The few men of other races who will give Black women consideration are typically foreign raised men. I am not making this up. It is a fact. There are of course some exceptions. | |
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| MORE Black and White
Posted: 6/16/2008 12:29:29 PM | I find it very interesting that she seems so bitter because white guys dont want to date her ..and she doesnt date black men. what a double standard!
Sorry I missed this. I have NEVER said I don't date Black men. Of course I date Black men. I was married to a Black man for flip's sake. I just don't KNOW many Black male professionals who are single. I've met some really fantastic married guys who are Black but I don't steal men from other women no matter how hot I think they are or how compatible we are. I wouldn't want someone to do that to me.
You have a preference to date white guys but you do not understand why the white guy has a preference not to date you?
Not at all. Quite the contrary. For the most part, I am unimpressed. There are a few exceptions of course.
Maybe the main point is that a lot of white people still have low opinions of us so best just avoid them along with other people who can't appreciate you for who and/or what you are.
I agree and I am also coming to that POV re: Canadian raised Asian men.
Getting back to the OP. How can you expect Black women to be thrilled about Black men dating White or Asian women when we are regarded and treated so poorly by White men and Canadian raised Asian men?
As I stated before:
People's prejudices are deeply engrained and unlikely to change. In an on-line environment where they have no opportunity to interact with individuals, the liklihood of change is reduced from slim to none. It is also clear that it is not the Black women who are against interracial relationships, it is the White men. As thesecretof joy pointed out, the Black women I know aren't against interracial relationships. They just want a level playing field. Black men dating White women while White men for the most part refuse to even consider dating a Black woman can hardly be considered a level playing field.
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| MORE Black and White
Posted: 6/16/2008 3:03:28 PM |
As thesecretof joy pointed out, the Black women I know aren't against interracial relationships. They just want a level playing field. Black men dating White women while White men for the most part refuse to even consider dating a Black woman can hardly be considered a level playing field First off, you support the words of a white woman (if that's what she is claiming to be?) who posted the following: Firstly, I'm not black. I'm Irish, Norwegian and Chinese. For the purposes of these forums I identify as white because that is the label I was raised with and the perspective I can speak from. On my profile I chose "other ethnicity" for a variety of reasons According to her words she is white and can speak from that perspective while also speaking the perspective of "other ethnicities". ...... She claiming to be a duck and a goose. You also seem to think relationships should be some sort of "affirmative action" policy. Sounds like love to me (sarcasm) | |
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| Why aRe MORE Black Women Against Interracial RELATIONSHIPS?
Posted: 6/17/2008 11:35:45 AM | It is difficult to speculate what is really going through the thoughts of others. Whereas, it is also obvious there are those who have difficulties accepting the happy decisions others have made for themselves.
Love does it come in any particular color?
Love ...does it discriminates?
Do understanding and respect belong to any particular group?
Does happiness only resides within cultures and races?
The answer to all of the above is obviously ...No!!
So, why may I ask are we spending our valued energy giving worth to narrowmindedness, il-thoughts, envy, unpleasant intentions and assumed il-wills?
Wouldn't it be better if we focus on attending to the beautiful gardens of Love we have created with the ones we choose to embrace within our hearts?
Strange isn't it? We are all companions in this Journey called Life , we co-exist ...yet, many of us have obvious difficulties being mutual companions with one another.
Not everyone would be pleased or embrace the choices we have made. | |
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TYRON3
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Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 175 | |
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