| If god is infallible.
Posted: 7/21/2007 2:32:12 PM | If we were perfect, life would be far too boring for everyone - including God. 
In my view, our imperfections define our humanity.  | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 7/22/2007 1:11:05 AM | You are too smart for me. I don't know what alot of the words in your post mean.
Oh. Sorry about that. You have my deepest sympathies.
I'll recover my friend. What I suggest to you is don't obfuscate the truth with elevated high sounding words. We can talk about truth in a way that everyone can understand.
I don't write just to answer you. I write for all those who don't post and who only view the posts. Consider them great one.
Art | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 7/22/2007 5:53:49 AM | | Hobbiest... have you ever considered, unlike 'god' that your words are fallible? Lol! | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 7/22/2007 9:45:48 AM | I'm not meaning to pick an argument here, rather to understand the question as stated. I love religion / spirituality involving conversations.
So my question is: What are you asking exactly? I ask this because of your question:
"If god is indeed infallible than would he not have created infallible creatures?
If not infallible than at least perfect in their makeup?"
The definition of perfect is "to the best of ones abilities" as stated by Merriam-Webster dictionaries. Hope you see my dilemma. I'd love to chime in on what I imagine this thread to be about though. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 7/22/2007 11:39:40 AM |
The definition of perfect is "to the best of ones abilities" as stated by Merriam-Webster dictionaries. Hope you see my dilemma. I'd love to chime in on what I imagine this thread to be about though.
I haven't read this definition in any dictionary. I use the Collins and Oxford UK dictionaries... the word perfect cannot mean "to the best of one's ability" because the best is not necessarily without flaw.
Definition of perfect: 1 [having all the essential elements] 2 [faultless] 3 [correct, precise] 4 [utter or absolute] 5. [make fully correct]
Quite a bit more then the best of one's ability. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 7/22/2007 12:00:06 PM | Having surfed through the responses I'll toos in my two bits.
IF God was infallible, all of his creations should be infallible also. Logic dictates that. BUT, science, the study of how things evolve in this case, shows that no matter what is begun or established at first, changes will happen. So logic dictates that sooner or later out of all the infallibleness happening, the fallible shall sooner or later take place. From the fallible shall come more fallible. So now you have the infallible and the fallible.
But now we have to side-track your question and speak of faith/theory. If indeed a infallible God created all that is, what would be the most logical choice for a future of things that are about to be produced. To produce them so they are exact copies to do and think as he, or to produce things in a fallible nature so that they can grow to become like he is so each has it's own ability to think and choose at random, thus being able to prove it's own purpose of intelligence and loyalty?
See, now we have thought this God is the only God out there. If that is true, doing the exact copy thing would logically be the best choice.
But what if he is not the only God? If there is something contrary to his nature of how he is, what he creates he is going to want to know it wants to be like him, establishing loyalty and cause and purpose for being between him and his creations. Those he creates who wish to be like him, to do as he wishes shall become by choice like him. Those who choose not to be as he shall have their own destiny somewhere else. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 7/22/2007 12:19:16 PM |
What I suggest to you is don't obfuscate the truth with elevated high sounding words. We can talk about truth in a way that everyone can understand.
And what I would suggest to you is an introductory course in the English language and maybe a handy pocket dictionary for quick reference when it comes to tricky words like "the" and "a"; considering that none of my words were so big that they coudn't be understood by just about anyone reading at a 5th grade level.
And speaking of "big" words; I don't need to "obfuscate" anything in a lame attempt to validate speculation and friendly discourse on a non-issue. I'm sorry that you're so easily threatened. Maybe quoting some more scripture will make you feel better?
Good luck with your recovery by the way. I hope it works out for you. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 7/22/2007 5:50:17 PM | | Here's one stumbling block I see...you're trying to mix science with theology. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 8/7/2007 2:45:34 PM | I believe that in the beginning He did make us infallible.
The ' Garden of Eden' was the realm He created in the first place.
Then he gave us a choice. We could choose the absolute, (where everything is perfect),
or we could choose relativity.
We chose relativity.
I think He gave us a choice because he thought we would be bored otherwise, and not get to experience anything. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 8/7/2007 6:01:50 PM | | An infallible being would still have a choice, and could well have chosen to give us free-will, and make us fallible. Evidence suggests that that was the choice made. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:54:06 AM | I really can't see God being infallible, if for no other reason that it must get really dull being sat around at home being inerrant all day. I imagine God lounging about on a squashy sofa watching his creation on a big expensive plasma or LCD TV monitor (I'm unsure which is the best technology, but being infallible he'd have a good idea and would have invested in the best) and thinking, "Shall I have chips for tea to day, or should I think about the waistline and opt for a healthy salad?" Immediately the infallible side of his brain would kick in and retort, "I'm infallible for My sake! What ever I have for tea will be correct, regardless of any undesirable spare tyre related consequences!"
See. Boring innit?
Knowing you're right all the time would take the fun out of decision making, in that you wouldn't be able to make any decisions that were less than perfect and if you did, the knowledge of having made a mistake might be enough to blow your circuits. I've seen something like this happen on an episode of Star Trek. In the denouement at the end of the "Return of the Archons" story, Captain Kirk argues with a godlike planet ruling computer called Landru that it's influence on the inhabitants of planet Beta III have been less than helpful. Evil even, in stifling the progress of a whole civilisation. Kirks finely honed arguments, delivered with his usual peerless dramatic flair soon has the cardboardy looking 'puter self destructing in a puff of smoke and providing another satisfactory entry in the Captains Log.
In God's case, inventing humanity might have been a big mistake. Some entity may have confronted him with this fact and the deity may have expired in a manner similar to that of Landru, which could explain the recent lack of contact. Just an idea... | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:12:40 AM | | Infallible... Not being able to make a mistake... I could see that as I doubt God had any real plan other than to see what happens when It split into all aspects of itself to learn exactly what "I AM", lol... If you are aiming at nothing in particular, it is pretty hard to screw it up. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:42:54 PM | | what if an infallible god is not all powerful? what ifhe could not produce exact copies of himself and could only produce matter that would produce us ? what we are on are way to perfection. since none of us chooses to be born and even our free will has limitations sometimes severe if there is a god he bears a great deal of responsibility for the mess he created idon't think he will or has the right to sit in judgement , i think he has an obligation to clean up the mess. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/26/2008 11:21:27 PM | The idea that organisms are machines can be useful to biologists in some contexts. But, the idea that creatures were perfectly designed machines created that way by God has been quite solidly refuted by evolution. Hume's original point, in his critique of the design argument, was that at least some creatures in nature show 'imperfections' in their nature or make-up. Hume's critique also involves other points, but basically his argument leads to the conclusion that on the balance of the evidence and the probabilities before us, the organised structure of living organisms does not necessarily lead to the conclusion they were made by a Being with the properties of a supreme designer or architect, as a lot of theistic apologists at Hume's time argued God was amoung other things, a sort of cosmic architect or designer.
The support for Hume's position came from the theory of evolution, which allowed the complexity of natural organisms to be explained as the result of the accumulation of changes over time due to natural selection. The mechanism for change though (gene mutation) was not discovered until the 20th century.
Creationists and intelligent design theorists still try to argue there is too much complexity in the universe and in biological organisms to be explained by the combination of 'chance and necessity' which seems to govern evolution. The weakness of both creationism and ID in this respect, when compared to science, are quite complex, but basically postulating a supernatural cause in favour of a natural one when trying to explain observed phenomena in nature, is the key problem. By postulating a 'supernatural' cause in favour of a natural one for some phenomena of nature, the cause of the phenomenon becomes unintelligible from a scientific perspective, and no progress can be made in understanding that cause from the point of rational inquiry and analysis. That is anathema to science and also to any reasonable inquiry into the nature or origin of the changes and phenomena we see in nature. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/26/2008 11:39:45 PM | Wow. So many interesting opinions here. So much meaty material. I'm overwhelmed.
But I think that I think this -- let me throw it out here and see what happens. Who said that God is infallible? S/He's been called a lot of things -- all powerful, all merciful, all knowing, etc. But I'm not sure that anybody but the pope has ever claimed to be infallible.
So IF God were infallible, why does logic predict that S/He would ONLY produce infallible creations? S/He can do anything! Why not create flawed things and watch (help?) them evolve? Why not create a tiny incredibly dense ball of matter and put it out there and see what happens? | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/27/2008 10:36:15 AM | | ithink the idea is that a good god would not create evil- if he could prevent it- so that is why i think he is not all powerful. even if he is good and infallible. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/27/2008 6:08:59 PM | God is infallible - or so they say. However, the Bible contradicts this. For example:
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
The definition of infallible is: unable to make a mistake. Yet, here we see, God has made a mistake. My guess is, when it says: "And it repented the Lord," that means God felt remorse in having created the world It did. Should God not of known, when It created man and the world, that eventually things would not turn out as planned and would have to be destroyed. Certainly a God would know in advance how things would turn out. God could of saved all the regret It felt. Sure, God saved Moses and got things back on track. But why? Why not do it right the first time? | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/30/2008 10:05:26 AM | Your offerings do not address Mankinds choice of good & evil.
God IS infallable.
As He viewed the masses and their consistantly bad choices, His countenence towards His creation fell. THAT is the meaning of that passage.
The beauty of God is manifest by His offrings of over 100 "new deals" for his beloved...He never gave up on us, even towards the sacrifice of something great (His Son) for something less than great (us). | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/30/2008 12:39:47 PM | | apparently this god did not know in advance , or the writer of the story did not conceive of God/this God in that manner. popular belief has it that gods are all knowing ,but i think tha creative being that was not all knowing is still a god. | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/30/2008 7:38:19 PM | | What is more perfect then free will? Something so simple, a this or a that, a yes or a no, this Technicolor dream? | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 4/30/2008 8:36:16 PM | It saddens me that for us to be saved an innocent man had to suffer so...
Sacrifice... bloodshed... why violence?
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 5/1/2008 1:35:01 PM |
Sacrifice... bloodshed... why violence?
The answer appears to be simple to most enlightened Christians, but in my experience to those who struggle with it there is an absence of the "Holy Spirit". | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 5/1/2008 1:59:31 PM | What would you know about enlightened Christians when you're here trying to bait me yet again?
Considering you have me blocked I would suggest you don't respond to my posts
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 5/1/2008 3:01:35 PM |
If god is indeed infallible than would he not have created infallible creatures?
If not infallible than at least perfect in their makeup? What if at our core, we ARE?
And that our only task in life is to recognize that which we already are so that we may return to the source unburdened by unecessary clutter.. ?
At least, that is how I see it... while acknowledging that I have along way to go, lol... | |
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| If god is infallible.
Posted: 5/1/2008 3:23:32 PM |
What would you know about enlightened Christians when you're here trying to bait me yet again?
Not you specifically I was trying to do anything with, it was the question that interested me. The answer was for all those who consider themselves enlightened. And since you asked me the question "how would I know about enlightened Christians?" It quite simple really, I've lived with them. The block you refer to isn't appropriate and has no meaning here. :) | |
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