| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/13/2007 9:06:25 PM | Mungojoe
To equate it with a false fire alarm or spurious 911 call is disingenuous at best and laughably ludicrous at worst.
Is her life in danger? If not, then why is she giving off an emergency signal? Or, could it be that she is not really doing that and simply making a political statement?
Anyhow, here is the article http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/13657361/detail.html
"Hanging the flag with the union down is a sign of distress, and it's my contention that the country is in a very distressful situation," Hammer said.
The board of her homeowner's association is very distressed with her, saying the way the flag is being flown violates Cambridge Park's patriotic and political expression policy.
Well, who are you goingto respond to if you are an emergency service, a sinking ship at sea or, a homeowner who is pissed with her government and wants somebody to help her out and is unwilling to wait for the political process to grind in her favor? I'd say that somebody like her equates a crisis to not having the right flavored yogurt in the fridge rather than a giant meteorite about to hit the earth. A typical over the top far right wing lack of reality to say the least.
Wondering, who do you think she expects to respond to her 'international sign of distress?' | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/13/2007 10:48:03 PM |
A typical over the top far right wing lack of reality to say the least.
Absolutely.
Who other than the far right wing with an "over the top" lack of reality would be so upset over the manner in which one woman displays the flag (or even go so far as to have a "patriotic expression policy" for home owners that would forbid this)
Or, could it be that she is not really doing that and simply making a political statement?
Um... Isn't that pretty much exactly what I said? That it is symbolic of "the ship of state" in distress?
is unwilling to wait for the political process to grind in her favor?
Or perhaps protests of this kind are intended to help push the political process along, to influence the opinions of others and help to ensure an outcome that leads to an end to the state of distress rather than simply sitting around and hoping that it "grinds" in the desired direction.
You have to admit, she certainly has gotten peoples' attention.
Wouldn't you say that is the point of it? It certainly seems to be a strategy that has gotten the attention it seeks (I'd say that was a sign that she is one of the "sharper knives in the drawer". Perhaps she is a "Dale Carnegie" graduate). | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/13/2007 11:41:14 PM | Mungojoe
Um... Isn't that pretty much exactly what I said? That it is symbolic of "the ship of state" in distress?
I see, kind of like pulling a fire alarm to protest. Or, calling 911 to say there is a crime in progress that requires lots of emergency people so that you can show the world that there needs to be something done about something other than a real threatening emergency.
Very symbolic. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/14/2007 12:52:44 AM | I see, kind of like pulling a fire alarm to protest. Or, calling 911 to say there is a crime in progress
That is a completely ludicrous and obtuse comparison.
This woman will never be mistaken for a sinking vessel in the middle of Wheat Ridge, Colorado. There will be no large expenditure of resources spent answering potential emergencies as there would be with a fire alarm or 911 call.
There will be no panic among the public or rolling of fire trucks, ambulances or police cars. There will be much notice, reporting, and discussion of the issues behind it.
There will even be a lot of gnashing of teeth among uber-patriots, jingoists and right wingers over her "desecration" and "lack of patriotism" and discussion of freedom of speech and the right to protest but there will NOT be any threat to public safety or civil order (as there would be with a fire alarm or 911 call).
Clearly her point has been made as all of those goals (the notice, reporting and discussion) has and are occuring while none of the dire consequences of the ludicrous comparisons to fire alarms or 911 calls have or will occur.
All in all, it seems that the symbolism of it has proven to be a very successful protest (and maybe that is what upsets some people the most). | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/14/2007 5:52:02 AM | mungojoe
All in all, it seems that the symbolism of it has proven to be a very successful protest (and maybe that is what upsets some people the most).
Then you agree, she did not do this as a distress signal and was actually desacrating the flag by pretending to use it as a distress signal simply to protest. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/14/2007 6:31:08 AM | Montrealguy beat me to it, Why they hell are people more concerned about the display of a flag rather than the condition of the country it represents???
P.S I know many Vets from past wars, Even an F-86 super sabre pilot from the Korean war, and they all will tell you, you dont fight for a flag, you fight for your fellow soldiers on the battlefield, air, or sea!
So with that being said , maybe we should all hang our flags upside down as a symbol of the distress many Vets feel to see the country they bled for, and their friends died for being run into the ground by the complete jackasses we have in Government now.
Once we put the country right side up, then we can worry about a flag. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/14/2007 8:05:03 AM |
Then you agree, she did not do this as a distress signal and was actually desacrating the flag by pretending to use it as a distress signal simply to protest.
No.
There is no desecration involved in this woman's actions. The perceived state of distress in the country is very real and the use of the flag in this way indicates that.
The symbolism of the protest is not found in a false distress rather the symbolism is found in the representation of the "ship of state" as if it were an actual vessel.
The call for assistance is not put out to other ships on the high seas but to the people around her, and of the country, to rescue the state from its distress. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/14/2007 12:30:50 PM | if i was driving down the road and saw a flag hanging up-side down, i would think,WTF!
i would have no clue as to what it was suppose to mean for the protest she was making.
if i saw a banner or a sign hanging off the pole or displayed in her yard saying Bush is an id10t. i hate the war. bring our troops home. then i as an observer would know what she was unhappy about.
IMO there are a lot better ways to get a message across. good example....
WE are debateing WHAT she did, NOT her cause....didn't bring much attention to her cause on this thread anyway... | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/14/2007 12:47:49 PM | Years ago the Toronto Blue Jays were a good baseball team. They even won the World Series a couple of times. One of those years a US Marine Guard flew the Canadian flag prior to the game in Atlanta. Upside down. There was small kerfuffle up here, but the Marines were far more upset about it than anyone in this country.
Jeez, it's an inoccuous protest statement by a woman who's fed up. A far stronger argument can be made that those displaying the Rebel Cross are advocating treason. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/14/2007 5:09:41 PM |
Jeez, it's an inoccuous protest statement by a woman who's fed up. A far stronger argument can be made that those displaying the Rebel Cross are advocating treason.
game, set, match. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 7/14/2007 5:26:36 PM | I see that there are a few "frogs in the frying pan" in this thread.
These people really need to get their head out of the sandbox...
An upside down flag simply means that your country is in distress... nothing more; nothing less.
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/5/2007 7:32:21 AM | | I would not hang my flag upsidedown, but I defend someone else's right to do so. It is their choice to do so, we may not like it but it is their way of voicing opposition. I do not believe it is being done to insult our soldiers, just a slap at Bush and his dumbass ways. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/5/2007 4:24:34 PM | I think they will win if taken to the supreme court, or at least they should win if taken to the supreme court. There was a day one could say they will win but those days are gone with the new word "terrorism". Its like the hypnotist whispers the word and everyone grabs a flag and a gun.
I feel its really in bad taste for instance to burn a flag in a protest, however i will fight for your right to do just that. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/5/2007 9:05:31 PM |
I would not hang my flag upside down, but I defend someone else's right to do so. It is their choice to do so, we may not like it but it is their way of voicing opposition. I do not believe it is being done to insult our soldiers, just a slap at Bush and his dumbass ways.
I agree. I think it's disrespectful, but thank goodness we live in a country where it is allowed. The freedom of speech which this country cherishes is one of the things that flag stands for, and soldiers fought for. The flag is a symbol. The freedoms are what count. Let's not get things backward here.
I'm kind of glad we feel strongly about our flag. But it will survive if we remember what it stands for. If we save the flag, but lose the rights, we've really lost both. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/5/2007 9:31:11 PM | The only ludicrous part of this thread is the fact that there are people that want to punish this woman.
So she is disrespectful... so what? She is hate-mongering and childish... so what? You can't punish her for those things.
She has the right to do these things to the flag... she should be allowed to burn it too... if she wants to take it inside and pee on it... it is her right... through the federal government... it shouldn't be allowed to do ANYTHING...
On the other hand, the community should be trying to get rid of her because she signed up to live in that place and said she would abide by their rules... if she doesn't like the rules she should leave. Case closed... period... this is not a rights issue... she has the right... but she doesn't have a right tolive anywhere she pleases
It is good to be patriotic, but it is not good to be blindly patriotic... what really ticks me off is that we have given this woman exactly what she wanted... attention... lets get to real issues... and get off of this juvenile stuff... obviously this woman doesn't know about petitions... referrendums... or writing her politicians... and for that matter calling on her community to meet together and talk about the issues... so lets forget this news... forget her... and kill this thread | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/6/2007 3:24:59 AM | Saying the US was in distress by sending out an international signal as you describe would be like sending out an SOS on a fully functioning steamship simply because you ordered a sirloin steak when you really wanted chicken cordon blu. Or, pulling a fire alarm in a crowded building because you found there wasn't any toilet paper in the washroom.
Sir, you are completley out of your mind. How on gods green earth can you make the comparison you just made? Like the situation in america is anything akin to being out of TP. Are there people that would harm us out there? Yeah Duh, there is one sleeping in the Whitehouse
Should these people be stopped, or at least fought? Yes.
Saying that this woman should be prosecuted for hanging a flag upsidedown is somewhat akin fineing a patron at a fine resturaunt for useing his salad fork for the main course. America IS in distress, and the symbolism used by this woman is very apropriate ESPECIALLY since the amendment of the bullshit act...I mean patritot act which OUTLAWS demonstrating against the war in Iraq
Bush is not Hitler
Thats true, Hitler wishes he was as good as Bush at what they do (did)
Is her life in danger? If not, then why is she giving off an emergency signal? Or, could it be that she is not really doing that and simply making a political statement?
No her liberty and her freedom is...sounds like a good emergencyt to me
Once we put the country right side up, then we can worry about a flag
Amen!!
WE are debateing WHAT she did, NOT her cause....didn't bring much attention to her cause on this thread anyway...
Thats because none of us are idiots and we all know exactley why she did it
Years ago the Toronto Blue Jays were a good baseball team. They even won the World Series a couple of times. One of those years a US Marine Guard flew the Canadian flag prior to the game in Atlanta. Upside down. There was small kerfuffle up here, but the Marines were far more upset about it than anyone in this country.
I remember that, as I recall that game was in Atlanta....the first game in Canada, the Marines requested the chance to display it rightside up, and we accomidated...the audience at Sky Dome in Toronto gave them a defaning standing applause. Shows Canadian spirit if you ask me. Nobody in Canada thought that the Marines, or by extention the USA was trying to offend or Disgrace Canada, or the cause for which our veterans fought. Now, this situation in the US, if it were hapening in Canada, would also likley get a standing ovation. She isnt offending the USA or the cause of freedom for which soldiers fight, she is offended by the state of the union, and the robbery of her freedom and liberty.
IMHO, she should have flown the flag at half mast.
I would have done bolth!
Jeez, it's an inoccuous protest statement by a woman who's fed up. A far stronger argument can be made that those displaying the Rebel Cross are advocating treason.
Hell Yes!! Why is it legal to fly the confederate banner, THAT is offensive to the USA
but she doesn't have a right tolive anywhere she pleases
ummm yes, she does...within reason...IE she could not live on the lawn to the whitehouse, or in a tent in the middle of I90, but she can choose to live anywhere she wants to.
obviously this woman doesn't know about petitions... referrendums... or writing her politicians... and for that matter calling on her community to meet together and talk about the issues... so lets forget this news... forget her... and kill this thread
Obviousley doing any of that would be more pointless than what she did!
Hang it at half mast, upsidedown and on fire...then it would reflect the state the country is in...hell enought people do it, someone might even do something about it! | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/6/2007 9:33:22 AM | at msg 3,
why do you feel it is disrespectful to those who have died in Iraq? who are you to state that silly comment?
now talking about people who have died, well i know thousands of people in Iraq who have been killed by the US soldiers, i mean, children, mothers, etc
you say you have family members fighting in Iraq? well i see you have killers in your own family, do you not?
PLEASE! stop bragging about that silly American patriotism you always show, that is exactly what makes us European laugh, and may i add it is what gives USA a bad press!
here in any country of Europe we have got freedom of speech, and if someone wants to clean its a$$ with the flag or whatever he or she wants, then it will be done! | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/6/2007 10:08:57 AM | I support her right to hang the American Flag upside down, to burn the American Flag, to do anything she pleases with it.
You see I love my country, and I know that the act of burning my country's flag or hanging it upside down is just a form of protest and doesn't do anything to damage my country.
There are a lot of people out there who think that our great country is so weak that it can't even withstand someone hanging our flag upside down, I am not one of them. Burn our flag if you like lady, it does nothing to diminish America, because flags are only symbols and my country is more than a symbol.
Also, America isn't a perfect country. Now more than any time in history, the actions of our government have put the very security and honor of our country into question. A real patriot would not be afraid to protest the actions of their own government and demand better from their leaders. And a real patriot would not feel that their country was weakened by acts of protest. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/6/2007 11:16:25 AM | | Although I think it is disgraceful and a slap in the face of my military brothers in arms....it is what I signed up for. To fight for those who don't appreciate what many have died for. I have been activated twice since 2005 and sent to the sandbox once. I know that I fight so that everyone can have the freedom to say and do as they choose (even if they choose to disgrace the memory of others). | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/6/2007 11:58:02 AM | ^^^those who don't appreciate what many have died for"
do you mean those soldiers who have died and continue dying just for OIL?
do you really think the US soldiers are fighting for freedom so everyone can have freedom? PLEASE! wake up! although i assume you will not, as Americans are puppets with 'washed'-brains in the hands of coward politicians like Bush, etc | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/6/2007 2:31:40 PM | Pedro: I see you have a nice history of anti-US comments, no problem, free forum, but did you know that when Hurrican Katrina hit and we asked Spain to send help and relief, when the Spanish troops landed in New Orleans the first they did was surrender. | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/6/2007 4:47:01 PM |
Here's my big deal with it. I feel that it's disrespectful to those who have fought and died for our country. It's OUR flag and we've fought for everything it stands for.
If those soldiers didnt want to defend a nation that allows its people to burn its flag... those soldiers would have been better off fighting for the enemy.
It's OUR flag and we've fought for everything it stands for.
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
-Thomas Jefferson.
You say that "we" as if YOU were one of the people who had bled out their lifeblood for our nation. YOU havent fought for anything any more than this lady hanging the flag upside down.
I have a lot of friends and some family members fighting in Iraq for it right now.
So do a lot of us, your "friends fighting the war" in no way gives you (or your military friends) any right to be the judge of what is appropriate for another american to do or say about this nation. If you or anyone has this assumption that reverence for our flag is more important than the ideals it represents, then you have no real grasp of what our nation is about.
You, OP, display that you have NO CLUE what patriotic love of our republic really means, nor even a grasp of the value of the freedoms that those generations of soliders were actually fighting for.
isn't there another way?
No, there isnt. The only "other way" that would be acceptable would be for you and all the other false-patriots here spouting your nazi idealogy while waving an american flag, to grow up and join the rest of us in supporting our citizens right and responsibility to speak out and condemn our nation when it does wrong.
No one is spitting on you brother, just the scumbags who sent you to Iraq. I hope no one ever has to die for a red, white and blue rag made in Communist China. Liberty is worth dying for, but the oil profits of large coporations isn't.
WELL SAID! It is a sad day when our flag is more important to people than the ideals it represents. People who fight for liberty are heroes... people who fight for a flag are fools.
Although I think it is disgraceful and a slap in the face of my military brothers in arms....it is what I signed up for. To fight for those who don't appreciate what many have died for.
This sounds like a REAL american solider. Thanks for serving our nation, sir.
J | |
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| The American Flag...Gotta Read!!!
Posted: 8/6/2007 8:49:08 PM | Duncan57
What does protesting an illegal war have to do with disrepecting military personel?
Not much as the war has never been proven nor decided as being illegal.
Duncan57
We know you were lied to by Dubya
Nothing proven as lies either. WDMs all thought to be there by the entire UNSC as well as Congress using the same int as Bush.
Duncan57
Do you feel that your postion represents everyone in the military? How about those veterans who are members of groups like Veternas for Peace, Vietnam Veterans Against the War and Iraq Veterans Agianst the War? Do you feel that you represent these people?
To tell the truth, if he is anything like the young man I bought drinks for on Saturday night who was deploying for Afghanistan for the second time, he does. Myself, a vet am tempered a bit and told him that he didn't owe us anything and, another would gladly serve in his place. Told him to think of his fiance who, knew like I did that my words wouldn't hold him back as it was ingrained in him what respsonsibility and duty meant. His words were that if by his previous experience, he could save one Canadian or Afghan life, it made his life worthwhile. I envied him as I would have made the same decision if I were able and his girl understood it all.
Duncan57
I hope no one ever has to die for a red, white and blue rag made in Communist China. Liberty is worth dying for, but the oil profits of large coporations isn't.
Yes, the Chinese are making a killing off this same as the Germans, Russians, Japanese and so on. Even the US is breaking even as they support goverments who fight Salafist Islamic Jihadists by being able to support them because they have territory to do it from.
Duncan57
Read up on USMC General Smedley Butler to see how "War is Racket" and how the publicly elected gangsters profit from it. Life ain't black and white and never believe anything they feed you in the military.
Won't bother as we all know that if Ford or Chrysler weren't able to make a profit by churning out tank in WWII there wouldn't be many workers willing to do it for free so Hitler would be your daddy right now. Thank God for big business as the local Tacoria wouldn't be financing the war on terror. Capitalism works, see Russia, it doesn't.
Duncan57
I spend most of my spare time fighting for freedom here in the USSA, fighting Bush's homeland gestapo and their destruction of our freedoms right here in amerika.
What rights have you lost that have changed your life personally? | |
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