|
|
|
|
|
Naamah
|
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 101 | |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/23/2007 3:41:16 PM | ^^ I can relate to many of those sentiments.....being in awe of how much we don't know, and trying to sift through human fabricated stuff and programming. As it turns out I came up with a different answer to you, one that felt right for me, but whether or not we agree I do respect anyone like yourself who searches for their own genuine understanding... (as opposed to when people simply unthinkingly accept those pre-packaged McBeliefs they dole out, and then use them as a continued excuse not to think).  | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:26:45 PM | Well Avocado I insinuated nothing of a kind you chose to take it that way, and as for my, according to you intolerants you dont know me so how can you say if Im tolerant or not, that sounds judgemental to me and as for my comment being ridiculous ,well you seem to be the only one that thinks so, that comment in it self just shows how little you do understand plain english.
Love n Light to you and have a very merry xmas n happy new year.  | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/24/2007 12:19:27 AM | Well dizzydel, lets just break down what you said
Well the word God means Good Sorry, but god & good, although they look similar, have two entirely different meaning. Borrow a dictionary & look them up.
if you dont belive in God, then you dont belive in good I take that as only believers in god believe in good... being good, doing good deeds, appreciating the good in others etc. If I take that a step further, the interpretation is non believers believe in bad, the devil Satan & naughtiness etc.
When someone makes a sweeping statement, as you have, you must expect that not everyone is going to agree.
I mentioned writing in plain english because I thought you could have said something like to me, god is the epitome of good & to me that would have been a perfectly acceptable statement, but to preach in the way you did is like saying all women are sluts or all men are rapist scum I'm sure there are those who would agree with either of those statements, but it doesn't make them right.
as for my comment being ridiculous ,well you seem to be the only one that thinks so I am the only one to pass comment. Once again there will be those who would agree with you & likewise with me. Just because no one has said anything, you should not assume that is because they all agree with you. | |
|
| |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/24/2007 4:32:57 AM | Absolutely. Normally, I am not a preacher type person, but I will share some of my history, and my relationship with God, so that perhaps people will understand rather than blame. I realise it is sometimes hard to understand why God does things, like take away important people, and allow hardship and pain to continue. But I very much believe in the bigger picture. He has a plan for us all, I am certain of it.
I used to believe as many people here have indicated - that God was created by man basically as a crutch. Then, he put me through severe hardship (My son died at age 3 months). I wondered why, like others here have said...
But looking back over the years, I can see how much my life has been different as a result of Christopher's death - and not only my life, but the life of my ex-wife, and our 2 other children (the second of which probably would never have been born had Christopher lived). I can see how much my views on living have changed, due to this. And so, I now see that Christopher live a full life in his 3 months. He served a purpose, and changed the world in his way, and is now with God, happy and peaceful.
There are many other instances where I have seen Gods work in my life. When I havegone the wrong way, thinking that I know better, and things just get harder and harder for me - then, all of a sudden, what I wanted is not there, but what has resulted is infinitely better for everyone. The number of times I have seen this is too numerous to count. Normally, it cannot be seen immediately, but when I look back on my life objectively, and see the results from the hardshaip and the pain, I find it impossible to discount His existence. | |
|
Naamah
|
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 106 | |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/24/2007 5:35:58 AM | Midi-Mick, Heartfelt condolences regarding Christopher. Three months doesn't seem like much chance at life at all.
I understand that a death does change the lives of those who survive, that goes without saying. And to survive it, and to make the best of a bad situation, and to acknowledge the ways it has made us think differently...those perspectives I can understand. But now, and I have to tread easy here because this is an emotional topic for me and probably is for you too, but whenever I hear someone say that because of a person's death they gained in some way and therefore now understand the purpose of that person's death, I inwardly cringe. That is great for the person who gained/grew/learned, and I am happy for them to feel they have become better people or whatever...but I cannot get past the thought that there is something not right in a perspective or a "plan" that involves one person dying merely to make another person a better person. Why is one life less valuable than the other, that it can be deleted (and stamped 'purpose served' ) merely so that the one who lives on can improve or perceive of themselves as improved? I just can't get my head around that. My brain/my heart insists to me that it is unfair for the one who lost life. To me it justifies nothing...not for them.
I acknowledge that the "bigger plan" theory gives some people comfort, and I'd never want to deny a grieving person whatever comfort they can find. Continuing to ask the big "why" is tiring, and an answer (any answer) can bring relief if only we can bring ourselves to believe it actually is an answer. But to say it is truth only because it is of comfort and because it will quieten the "why"...well personally, even if I am really in need of a hug, I don't want false arms around me.
Realistically I know that we all die, and not all of us get to live through to old age before that happens...and I can accept that concept well enough. But to think that someone else perceives a personal improvement as being the purpose of the death of another... sorry, but I don't that think will ever sit well with me let alone afford me any comfort. Personal improvement might indeed come in spite of (and I say in spite of rather than because of) a loss, but I could never find comfort in thinking that someone I love had to die just for my benefit. I'd rather die myself than have that be so. | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/24/2007 5:39:38 AM | Once again thats only how you see it, I dident say all the other things you did.
All I said is if you dont belive in god you dont belive in good, not you carnt belive in good if you dont belive in god, you said that. | |
|
| |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/24/2007 2:17:55 PM | First of all, let me thank people for their kind words.
To answer Naamah the best I can, I do not think it is only one personal life-attitude that is changed due to the hardships and losses experienced. The "butterfly effect" is real - cause and effect - and the smallest change in the life of one person has an overall effect on the entire world. This, I think, is similar to the buddhists view of Karma also. And this also leads to comments directed towards Akastar.
The difference is that I do not think it all can be random. Newton's law of entropy states that anything left to its own devices will increase in randomness. However, when things happen beyond our control, whether they be good or bad, whether they were our own aims or not, the final result seems to be an increase in order. This indicates to me an intelligence, a plan, lying behind it all. And quite frankly, I do not think that Man is smart enough, or wise enough, to eventuate these sorts of results consistently.
The universe is goverened by the laws of physics - some of these laws we do not know yet (unexplained phenomonen). I agree that our mind has abilities far beyond our conscious knowledge, that near-death experiences have something to teach us, and that much that occurs is of our own doing. However, when things go beyond our control, or when the whole system starts going awry, that is when God steps in for us. Often it is as simple as bring exactly the right person into our life that can help things along. Other times, the whole world seems to want to force us a particular way. Occassionally, a miracle occurs. Whatever it takes, He can and does do. And for that, I say "Thank you". | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/25/2007 8:22:25 PM | No I dont believe in God. And to be honest i think the whole notion is one big fairytale.
Religion is a joke.
But much like politics and money, were not supposed to talk about it, right?
RJ | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/25/2007 10:41:01 PM | no, in a word no........
believe in a higher power, & you can call it what you like...
god, devil......guys from outta space.....what ever...... | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/25/2007 11:09:18 PM | I believe in an all-knowing, all-powerful omnipotent being who strikes when you least expect it.
Good naked pagan romp around an open fire never went astray either. | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/26/2007 7:08:01 AM | I 100%, "without a shadow of doubt" believe in God. I have been in church and several times have felt a supernatural presence which I believe is God's presence. The presence is usually peaceful and confirmation to me that God is with me.
For those who don't believe you have a lot of questions to answer.
1. Who or how was the Earth, Sun and universe created?
2. Who or how was mankind created?
3. Explain why we call this year 2007AD? (possibly because it was 2007 years since Jesus Christ was born.)
Regardless of what you've done God is always there for all.
I do not believe in big bang theories for the existence of the world, I'm not convinced on the theory of evolution, and I don't believe that the supernatural presence was that of some demons.
There are reasons why God may for instance take lives away so young but he has his reasons. We as humans don't understand why...I believe God knows a lot more than we do....and I know it is unfair. For some people it makes them "stronger" or get closer to God.. ... and there are reasons why God won't reveal himself visually to us at this stage.
The one thing I know is that when you know there is a God you NEVER stop believing!  | |
|
| |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/26/2007 1:59:14 PM |
Well the word God means Good, so if you dont belive in God, then you dont belive in good.
Dizzy, I'm not sure where you get your definition of God from, but goodness, is an attribute alleged of god....omnibenevolence. A comprehensive reading of the bible....particularly the old testament, would give the impression of God being a vain, jealous, irrascible codger who was as wont to destroy his playthings as be "good" to them.
Your statement , "God means good" is an example of poor logic on two counts.....
1. the statement "...then you don't believe in good." is a non sequiter. One can believe in good, without necessarily believing in God. And...judging by the way theists are wont to commit all manner of crimes against humanity....One can believe in God, without necessarily believing in good 
2. The argument as you have stated it is a circular argument. if one was to use your definition of god....then we would arrive at the absurdity of.....
If you don't belive in God.....then you don't believe in god.....or put in other words....if you don't believe in good...then you don't believe in good. They are logical conclusions to be arrived at from your argument, but they are not what you had in mind, when you framed your proposition....
For those who don't believe you have a lot of questions to answer.
1. Who or how was the Earth, Sun and universe created?
2. Who or how was mankind created?
3. Explain why we call this year 2007AD? (possibly because it was 2007 years since Jesus Christ was born.)
ChristianFitRunner.......
questions 1 and 2, are indeed interesting questions....but they are unlikely to be answered from within the pages of texts some millenia old. Texts I might add that have been edited, added to, subtracted from, mistranslated, misinterpreted, misscopied, and dare I say it, in parts....forged.
Your arguments for the existence of god, have followed a well trodden path starting with Thomas Aquinas who posited the cosmolological or "first cause" argument for the existence of God. Believe what you may, it does not follow that what is believed in is actually true....though I do understand that there are plenty of flat earthers who hold to their beliefs, in the face of evidence that exists to the contrary.
as to your statement #3
Explain why we call this year 2007AD? (possibly because it was 2007 years since Jesus Christ was born.)
Human systems of dating are quite arbitrary.....many societies have their own systems of calendar dating, many of which have little to do with the god/gods that they profess to worshiping. the terms CE and BCE....or Common Era / Before the Common Era are becoming more frequently used in literature, recognising that the christian system of dating does not necessarily warrant primacy. In any case, the actual birth date/year of Christ is much disputed. It is likely that like the Queen's birthday holiday....Christmas is celebrated on a date that was not the actual date of Christ's putative birth.
I should also add, that Christians follow one or other of two different calendars....The Julian and Gregorian calendars....at least one...if not both calendars are incorrect.....in relation to the actual date of Christ's apparent birth.
In answer to the OP's question.....the question is not a simple one....without defining what or who god is...how can one answer the question.....if the question is...do I believe in an omipitent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god of the Abrahamic kind.....the answer is no. If the definition is broader than that, then who knows...and who cares. | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/26/2007 5:28:34 PM |
3. Explain why we call this year 2007AD? (possibly because it was 2007 years since Jesus Christ was born.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't AD relate to "After Death", and BC relate to "Before Christ". If so then 2007AD would be 2007 years after his death, not when he was born.
I could be wrong, and have been on many occassions.
I'm not entering into the argument does God exist or not. I do believe Jesus was on the earth however, the real question being was he the son of God or not. He may have just been a bloody nice guy!!!!!!..... | |
|
| |
| |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/26/2007 8:03:48 PM | It's interesting to read that apparently modern research shows that he was more likely born 4 to 7 years earlier than year 1AD.
So I guess 2007AD would in fact be 2007 years after his first pushbike......hmmmm, interesting | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/27/2007 1:46:30 PM | | Yes, I do , and find him to be revengefull, hypercritical, overly proud, and if he walked the earth today, he would surely be the worlds most wanted terrorist(maybe thats why he hasn't been back). God surely is in need of therapy to say the least. | |
|
| |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/28/2007 2:33:28 AM |
^^Thats pretty much my thoughts.....but I was too scared to write them down!!!
In case I get struck down by a lightning bolt!!
Aw hilly.......live dangerously...... | |
|
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/30/2007 1:37:41 AM | {I often find it amusing that many non-believers are quite happy to accept others beliefs but often the reverse is not true.
Why do religious people feel the need to try and inflict their beliefs on others while non-believers appear more tolerant of others ??
Maybe non-religious people are more comfortable and secure in their convictions and beliefs and dont feel the need to justify what is their truth.}
I wonderful insight there hilly.
I grew up in religious circles, did the whole Sunday school thing. 2 of my siblings became ministers in different churches but both of them gave it away when they found how corrupt each of the churches were.
I lost any faith I had when questioning 'the elders' about heaven verses outer space and astronomy etc. They told me that by believing in god and heaven they couldn't except astronomy and outer space. I suppose this also ment Darwin and dinosaurs and pre-historic man. So I was supposed to believe all this stuff that they had NO proof or science about in the face of pure science and undisputable proof on evolution, space etc.
They told me in Sunday School that God will protect me as "he protects every blade of grass". They can't explain to me then how thousands of species of grass, plants and animals become extinct every year. They can't explain how in 2006 there were more wars and conflicts than ever before in history and most were religion based. OR Why a caring god allows a 7 year drought that not only kills all the grass he cares so much about, along with animals and eventually people taking their own lives.
Believe in a god? Who would want to be a part of any club that does all of that, even if they could prove there is a god? | |
|
| |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 12/30/2007 3:14:30 AM | Do I believe in a "God" ?
No.
My belief is that "God" or "gods" of the past were created by the imagination of people less intelligent than ourselves to explain natural events in the heavens and on the earth, for which they had no other explanation.
And 2000 years ago, the Romans themselves believed in numerous different gods ( Cupid, Mars etc etc ) .The invention of the jewish God / Yahweh etc was I believe simply another invention of man as part of this tradition.
I dont doubt that Jesus was a real person and walked the earth - but he was just another guy, I dont believe that he was the Son of God . I dont believe that there is a "higher power" that we should worship.
I do think that we might not be alone in the universe
I do believe in the spirit world ( experience)
Thats my belief . You are welcome to yours .
Right - its half ten on a Sunday Morning : time to go to Church ( I also believe in hedging my bets lol ) | |
|
|
| Page 5 of 11
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 |
|
Home
login 
lol
