| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/5/2008 9:05:35 PM | Whitegold
It appears that you are not willing to accept other people beliefs, as you dont think they accept your own. Be a little more open minded. I have Christian beliefs, but its not up to me to judge how others lead their lives. Each to their own, dont judge me and I wont judge you....The bible said..love thine neighbour as thineself...or something like that. IT is not for anybody to judge anybody....and I wish my life was easier, and I wish everybody elses was too. not all people are stupid, and they shouldn't be judged on either their sexual orientation or their religious beliefs. If you despise relgious people, then you are a hypocrit. | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/6/2008 12:50:51 AM |
It appears that you are not willing to accept other people beliefs, as you dont think they accept your own.
Not sure where you got that from. I am a very strong believer in Freedom of Religion as one of the great basic human rights. I think you're confusing acceptance with agreement.
Be a little more open minded.
About what? Believing what you believe? I don't recall judging anyone. The comments I made were directed at a specific person for something they said that offended MY belief that moral judgements were individual rather than religious, and in fact often the two are direct opposites.
The bible said..love thine neighbour as thineself
Indeed it does! And wise words... of course... that only counts for Jews. Only other Jews were considered "neighbours". "Thou shalt not kill" also has the same conditions. Non-jews weren't people, and the commandments didn't apply to them. If you want to start quoting the bible there are some far less "neighbourly" passages.
they shouldn't be judged on either their sexual orientation or their religious beliefs
I agree wholeheartedly, but I think it's interesting from someone whose "religious beliefs" specifically outlaw non-standard "sexual orientation", through both the old and new testaments. I often wonder how modern and intelligent Christians such as yourself reconcile your progressive views on homosexuality with the clear homophobia of the bible, whose word you theoretically follow?
If you despise relgious people, then you are a hypocrit.
Just as well do don't. I have many friends who are religious. I do, however, despise religion. | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 154 | |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/6/2008 1:51:54 AM | | I am not religious, but I don't find it in the least surprising that people can believe so strongly in religion having seen how adamantly some people will hold onto a belief they are happy with. As a comparison, I recently encountered this group of people who had convinced themselves that something was true, despite glaringly obvious evidence to the contrary. They wanted so much for it to be true that anyone who tried to tell them otherwise became a "liar". In actuality their conviction was one of those things that quite simply, wasn't true. Maybe it will always be truth in their eyes, or maybe oneday they'll realise and feel rather silly about it. But people are indeed capable of amazing conviction about an idea that simply feels right despite the total absence of fact. | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/6/2008 8:46:33 AM | There will be a time not to far quiet near, that nobody on this earth will have a chance to sit on the Fence any longer......you will have two choices....... /Hell.........or..........  Jesus/Heaven?
Just remember......... choose wisely.........as both choices are for...... ETERNITY!
Many sweet Blessings  | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/7/2008 4:47:01 AM | | Yes thats right it is a personal thing, and sometimes we dont hear of the karma that comes back to the collective, dosent mean that it dosent come to them just we dont hear about it. | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/7/2008 8:28:17 AM |
There will be a time not to far quiet near, that nobody on this earth will have a chance to sit on the Fence any longer......you will have two choices....... /Hell.........or.......... Jesus/Heaven?
Just remember......... choose wisely.........as both choices are for...... ETERNITY!
According to some christian doctrines....the decision as to where one goes is God's....and that any choice we make is immaterial to God's will. Furthermore that that our final destination..."up" or "down" has already been predetermined.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_(Calvinism)
Given the number of gods that are known to exist since recorded history began, and well before that, judging by the religious artifacts found by archeologists.....the decision as to which god to punt upon is an awfully difficult one, yet a decision of the utmost importance.....It would be terrible to barrack for Zeus...only to find that Baal is the real deal....
Hell already exists.......on Earth......it is known as the Centrelink Office.......where all things are known, where there is no escape and where the torture so exquisitely diabolical, that Hell / Hades or what you will, would be quite superfluous | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/7/2008 9:09:10 AM | I don't believe in any type of divine being or spirituality.
I think that the beliefs come from people's need for answers where there may be none.
And also from people's fear of death.
I'm sorry for your losses.
I hope that you come to realize that whatever answers you are seeking will probably only come from YOU. | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 1:10:46 AM |
Just remember......... choose wisely.........as both choices are for...... ETERNITY! wow!!! we get a choice now, how democratic.
If I chose heaven for eternity... that would be hell. What does one do all day in heaven? Is there basket weaving? Cloud polishing, which side of the road do they drive on?
Is it ok to be naughty in heaven, after all it is for eternity, once you're in in, you're in. Will we have to give up the beer & smokes? Will someone be able to fix my arthritic fingers?
How do I make an informed choice? Is there a brochure on heaven/hell? | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 6:02:22 AM | A few pages back, there was a (now deleted) post which provided links to two UTube videos. I watched the videos which were segments of an American TV show (nothing radical) and it seemed to me they were bang on topic.
Anyway, it did remind me of Message 96 . . hilly1971's quote where she said . .
I often find it amusing that many non-believers are quite happy to accept others beliefs but often the reverse is not true.
Why do religious people feel the need to try and inflict their beliefs on others while non-believers appear more tolerant of others ??
Maybe non-religious people are more comfortable and secure in their convictions and beliefs and dont feel the need to justify what is their truth.
And I got to wondering why we see some attempts to link in the scientific community as if to give some sort of credence.
And then I read this by Carl Sagan.
It seems to me what is called for is an exquisite balance between two conflicting needs: the most skeptical scrutiny of all hypotheses that are served up to us and at the same time a great openness to new ideas … If you are only skeptical, then no new ideas make it through to you … On the other hand, if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish the useful ideas from the worthless ones.
"The Burden of Skepticism" (1987)
Of course, he also said . . .
A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 6:25:39 AM | | I couldn't give a rat's a*se whether there is a God (or gods) or not. I'm too busy trying to make sense out of the real world rather than agonising over fairy-tales that have never produced one iota of verifiable proof. Every religious zealot I have ever met has had one thing in common with the next, a plentiful lack of ability when it came to logic and reasoning. I'm not saying that there aren't incredible realms of nature that we are yet to learn about but all this millenarian talk of days or reckoning or the 'end times' is in my opinion dangerous claptrap. Sure there's a half-wit ex-alcoholic in the White-house trying to push the envelope toward oblivion because 'God told him' but he's out of a job later this year and if we can keep his finger off the button until then then we might all return to a little sanity. | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 1:48:34 PM |
A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.
Maybe that is why many religious doctrines abhorr homosexuality | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 7:01:07 PM | GOD- JESUS-TRINITY
To answer your question - I lost my dad when I was 3 - he drowned and his body was never recovered - my mother had 5 kids all under 12. I BELIEVE in GOD !!
If we don't - what have we got ...... no-one is good except GOD
When bad things happen to some-one - we question how can GOD do this or that
the bad thing does not come from GOD,
when sickness arrives surely not from GOD,
when bad luck hits you, definitely not of GOD,
when faithless, we say of GOD ....... rubbish ........ if you know GOD
you would know the difference ................. | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 167 | |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 8:12:27 PM | ^^^ I know this has been asked before, but I don't think I've seen an answer yet...if good things happen, do you thank god for those? Because I don't quite grasp the reasoning behind saying god isn't to blame for the bad stuff, but is to be thanked for the good stuff.
Maybe that is why many religious doctrines abhorr homosexuality
Chelloveck, you lost me a bit there in relating that comment to FauxPa's Carl Sagan quote. I read Sagan's (rather cheeky) comment as meaning that it's perhaps a good thing for the rest of us that those obsessed enough to actually join a celibate priesthood at least don't burden us with junior versions of themselves. I couldn't see how the religious doctrines surrounding homosexuality related to that? 
GOD- JESUS-TRINITY
Oh I believe in that wholeheartedly. My third dog is called Trinity. The middle one is such a good dog he might well be Jesus. And my oldest, a Beagle, certainly thinks he is god.  | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 9:08:30 PM | The Spirit-guided believes GOD says ..........
To those who know me not, there is in Me nothing to appeal to them, or attract them
To those who know Me, there is nothing more to be desired .... "no beauty they could desire HIM" | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 169 | |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 10:00:55 PM | | ^^^ Why do people putting forward a pro-religious viewpoint so often revert to talking in biblical speak? Not sure if that rather evasive piece of spin-doctoring was a response to my quite straightforward question... but if it was, then this seems to imply that if I "knew" god I wouldn't feel the need to bother asking perfectly sane and reasonable questions. | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 11:11:50 PM | Because religion is actually only INTERNALLY consistent. It's a closed system, essentially, its only logic is circular logic. God is real because the bible says he is, and the bible says Jesus is the Son of God so that proves... etc. Steven Colbert said it well: "we know every word is true because the Bible says that the Bible is true and, if you remember from earlier in this sentence, every word of the Bible is true. Now are you following me here or are you some kind of mindless zealot?"
The beliefs of Christians are self-proving, circularly logical, and highly resistant to outside influences. (Like questions, or independent thought.)
If there's anything the novel 1984 brought us other than the concept of "Big Brother" it's that of doublethink. Most religions (and I'm singling out Christianity only because I know the most about it) are based on doublethink.
You have to believe God loves us... but we burn if we don't do as he says. We have to believe he forgives us all our sins, while still being made to feel guilty for them. We have to believe that we have free will, but also a divine plan. We have to believe that it is wrong to kill, but not for God to. We have to accept that prayer can heal the sick, but not question when it doesn't. We have to believe that God is responsible for all the good that happens, but that things that are bad aren't his fault. We have to believe that the bible is without error... including the bits that are wrong.
Personally... I can't do it. Too many questions. No answers. "Faith" is not an answer.
And for the record, Jesus and God is not the Trinity. Learn to count. | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 171 | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 11:38:59 PM | Naamah....
My understanding is that homosexuality is one of those things that is contrary to god's commandment in Gen 9:7
And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. KJV..........fewer breeder = fewer of the faithful to pass on the faith to successive generations......sorry if my post seems a little obtuse.
"To know"...means different things in the bible.....it can mean.....recognition of.....but it can also mean.....the act of copulation....so I guess it depends on the contextual usage as to which is which.....
Speechy's comment is a little like the witch doctor's reasoning when blessing warriors for battle.....believe and you will be protected from the white man's bullets.....
after the battle....some surviving warriors came back to the witch doctor....and pointed out the heaps of their comrades bodies....to which the witchdoctor replied....my JuJu worked perfectly....it protected you did it not....they (pointing to the bodies) just didn't believe sufficiently.
Whitegold.....I don't think Namaah was showing any fanatacism...her question was a rhetorical one....but you answered it well....Reason and logic are the perceived enemies of faith...which merely requires uncritical, unquestioning belief.... | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/8/2008 11:57:05 PM | When I was younger I learned the concept of maximum entropy, or randomness, where the universe will automatically dilute itself to a state of lowest energy, or disorder. The mountains will erode, the seas will spread out, the big-bang particles will eventually spread out towards infinity at maximum separations etc...
But instead in life I see order, I see symmetry all around me. I see planets in stable orbits around stars. I see marsupials carrying their young. Amoebas didn't self-create due to randomness and the laws of physics, they existed and flourished because they were meant to. The same goes for other life forms which were designed to exist and function in the environment - plants, animals... and the human animal. Can randomness explain things like the brilliant process of male/female reproduction in every corner of the natural world? Can randomness explain human consciousness?
If you believe in a God or 'some higher order' then the show begins to make sense. If you don't then there is a whole lot of headscratching to be done. Maybe the 'we came from outer space' brigade can rationalise this too, and will wait for ET to explain it to them.
Yeah, I'm a believer. My faith is a part of who I am. You can take it or leave it. | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 174 | |
| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/9/2008 12:17:23 AM |
My understanding is that homosexuality is one of those things that is contrary to god's commandment in Gen 9:7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
KJV..........fewer breeder = fewer of the faithful to pass on the faith to successive generations......
Yeah I get the bums on seats motive...just couldn't see the connection between that and the quote FauxPa gave is all .
Actually...the point you've raised there does make me wonder why the church didn't want the priests to breed. Not wanting their loyalties distracted by family so as to have more opportunity to control them I can understand, but you'd think that they'd want offspring from the truly convinced. Anyway, let's not give the church any ideas.
her question was a rhetorical one
Well sort of. Like whitegold, I see the so-called logic to the argument as entirely flawed..."it must be true because I believe it to be true" and "my evidence is my faith" etc ...so it wasn't that explanation I was seeking as such (but yes whitegold presented it exceptionally well). It's just that I am always interested to try and find out if there is a (plain english) logical answer available from someone with views like Speechy... because it fascinates me that this sort of circular reasoning is really taken by some to pass for logic, which is then presented as a counterpoint for almost any question raised. I keep asking...thinking that maybe oneday I'll hear an answer from a believer that makes me go "wow, you actually do have a point". But I'm still waiting. All I hear is some version of "I won't find truth until I believe" which is so contrary to how it should work. Find out the truth, then believe, by all means - but don't put the cart before the horse. | |
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| simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/9/2008 12:30:48 AM | I have never believed in any kind of god and am not about 2 start not matter how many bible bashers come 2 me door preaching how good it is. I like having sex b4 im married and alcohol, gambling and all the other fun stuff that is a sin 2 do screw that im having as much sex and alcohol I can in 1 life time   | |
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