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 Author Thread: simple question - do you believe in a god?
 hilly1971

Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 201
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/10/2008 5:41:10 AM
As I have said before I personally dont believe in god(I have asked him for stuff many times and he is yet to deliver!!)

But I do send my children to RE at school as I believe they can make up their own minds about it. It can get quite annoying though, when your son constantly sings "Jesus is the reason for the season" and tells his sister to "shut up .....you are only one of my ribs"

Gotta love boys!!
 Avocado

Joined: 5/21/2007
Msg: 202
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/10/2008 5:55:51 AM
I think it is important to let your children to make up their own minds about god.

I send my kids to a Catholic school... I know, I'm such a hypocrite.
 sweetspirit777

Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 203
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/10/2008 1:43:32 PM
Anyone heard of Man Made?

This is Not of God's Way!

September 11th was of Man Made..........

Evil verses Good........The good lord does not always have his way, cos we think we know best!

The earth was created for us, it has been left in our hands, so who's to blame?

Bless the innocently ignorant!
 CavesBeach

Joined: 12/19/2005
Msg: 204
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/10/2008 2:22:15 PM

The earth was created for us, it has been left in our hands, so who's to blame?

I'm not so sure, I think it could have been put here for plants or dinosaurs. they have been here for a good 250 million years. something the good book gloss's over. if you were a earth historian our little scurry on the earth would not even be worth a mention. (100,000 yrs)

as a pillow case pilot I have never forgotten a budda quote
In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west, people create distinctions out of their own minds and then beleive them to be true.
 whitegold765

Joined: 12/26/2007
Msg: 205
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/10/2008 3:45:59 PM
A powerful argument, but I can't really agree with you there, sweetspirit.

No... September 11 was God's Will. Not YOUR God admittedly, but at the very least his brother. YOUR God, though, was responsible for the Crusades (which indirectly caused September 11), and the Spanish Inquisition.


This is Not of God's Way!


If you want to look for "God's Way" you can find plenty of it in the old testament. Rape, murder, bigotry and genocide. He only got all moderate when all of a sudden his son (utterly unmentioned until now) came down to earth and decided all the laws were wrong.

1 Samuel 15:3 is a lovely passage "Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey"

Then there's Numbers 31. It's a long story, but if you haven't heard of the Midianites, this would be why. The jews attacked the Midianite camp. They slaughtered them. Killed every man. Burned down their cities and took the women and children.

When they got back to Moses, he was angry with them. "Why did you keep the women alive?" Moses commanded that they kill all of the male children. All the women who had been with a man were also killed. Only the young girls and virginal women were left alive. These were divided among the soldiers. To be slaves or to be raped. Opinion is divided.

THAT is your God. "Good lord" is an oxymoron, as far as I can tell.

As to "innocently ignorant"... do you mean me? Or you?
 sweetspirit777

Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 206
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/10/2008 10:22:10 PM
OUCH.......you have been biting

And the answer to your question Sir Whitegold765.........differently Analytical YOU!

 Brizguy_2007

Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 207
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:18:20 AM
Just a small point....The original question was "do you believe in A God"...not "God" as in the christian one, but "a" God....as in any God.....So this would encompass all Gods.
I'm confusing myself now...Who's on first?
 QueenV07

Joined: 1/19/2007
Msg: 208
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:22:37 AM

Mystery was solved when they worked out (this was in California by the way) that this poor guy had been swimming or skin diving in a lake and the "elvis or simular" helicopter that is used to bucket up water and take to a bushfire had scooped him up and dumped him over the bushfire.


Wasn't that an episode of CSI?

And yes, you did spell coincidental correctly. Lucky for that or Rated10 would be onto you.

A friend of mine pointed out to me today that we mustn't confuse God and religion. I think I may have done that at times and by reading here some other have to.
 gypsygal_au

Joined: 12/8/2007
Msg: 209
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:32:47 AM
I dont watch CSI QueenVO7 so I wouldnt know.. perhaps they made a story of it?

Re: the spelling....... "phew" she says as she wipes the sweat from her forehead ..
 whitegold765

Joined: 12/26/2007
Msg: 210
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/11/2008 9:37:48 AM
It's actually an old urban legend.

Never happened :)
 QueenV07

Joined: 1/19/2007
Msg: 211
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/11/2008 4:05:51 PM
Thanks for clearing that up for us Whitey.

I had also search CSI and it was in Season 2 Episode 5.

This doesn't explain about God but it clears up some confusion for the rest of us.
 Naamah

Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 212
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/11/2008 5:32:31 PM
It's funny, I actually believed that diver story. Believing in something I've merely heard about without actually knowing the facts... I might be ripe for the plucking for religious conversion after all.

Then again, Queenie revealed earlier that god was a gemini, and I'm not sure whether that's a compatible star sign with leo, so things might not work out.
 muckraker

Joined: 1/1/2007
Msg: 213
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/11/2008 5:59:12 PM
To respond to the OP, if I were to believe in a god it would undoubtedly be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. There's a religion I can dig.

But, seriously, no I don't believe in the existence of any deity.

I do find it interesting that there are a number of people here who seem to succumb to "Pascals Wager" - that it is better to believe in God because the consequences for being wrong are less severe. The assumption being made is that the God they are considering for their worship is the only possible God (usually, in this country, the Christian God).

What if you were to die and subsequently discover that the real god is actually the Norse god, Thor. Given how uptight these characters seem to be about people worshipping only them, I'd think that there is a good chance that Thor would be more pissed off at you for worshipping the wrong god than at me for not believing in any gods.

I also think that if there were a god, he would be more concerned about what we do with our lives - whether we are good people and treat others with care and respect - rather than whether we believed in him or not. It sounds pretty egotistical when you look at it like that. Would someone who spent their lives relentlessly searching for a cure for cancer to prevent the suffering of untold millions be rejected from heaven purely because they are atheist?

I could go on but I think I've probably ruffled enough feathers... for now.
 gorantse

Joined: 11/25/2007
Msg: 214
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:34:51 AM
relying on a simple question it is a personal choice to decide.
Being aware some higher entity exists it brings meaning a challenge to life.
Due to case not being able to see, lets not make a conclusion.
Even at this day various scientists had decided that the space of the universe is multidimensional.
By being multidimensional there are different levels of consciousness.
With different levels of consciousness a finer particles not seeing by our own eyes,
unless they are cultivated.

Determining the answer, ask yourself a question without judgemental answer, what is life, what is meaning to life and where am i going. This are the answers even i am looking for.
At the end of it all there is a structure to the creation of life.
The answer is easy if you willing to listen and make new breakthrews in understanding the life.
 Akutenshi

Joined: 11/26/2007
Msg: 215
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/12/2008 3:23:25 AM
God(S)
I think its best to say what ever you believe the afterlife to be for you is what it will be.

I dont believe in god or gods, yet, i can argue just as good a reason as to why there is as i can to why there isnt.

The thing to remember is, you dont need to be religious to believe in god, nor do you have to believe in god to be religious.

What i have worked out for myself thus far is, that if there is a god, (S)He/it wont hold it against me for being myself and not worshiping Her/him/it.
Also, that if there is a god, (s)he/it isnt doing anything down here, its all up to mankind to make its choice and fight to survive.
Having faith in something greater is what gives many the will to fight that much harder to achieve thier goals.

If you read the bible it teaches lessons, not that you must believe in god, but life lessons, saying that by believing in "God" and work hard for him/her/it you will succeed and good things will come to you. But its also just as easy to change "God" to "Yourself" and get the same result.

If there is a god, then i think of God like a child with an ant farm, provided a world and is letting us do what we want while God sits back and watched.

If there is a god, Cancer isnt a creation of His/Hers/its, as it always a problem to the human race, its the crap we eat, breath, put on our skin and live in that causes it, much like alot of the other harmful things to us.
Everyone dies, we can only do our best with the time we are given.
 muckraker

Joined: 1/1/2007
Msg: 216
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/12/2008 4:24:57 AM
Akutenshi:

I found your post interesting. On the one hand, you seem agnostic, but then you say something that, as an atheist, I completely agree with. You also say some things which are plain old fashioned wrong.


I dont believe in god or gods, yet, i can argue just as good a reason as to why there is as i can to why there isnt.


Well, I'd like to hear your arguments for God's existence. By "God" I mean, any only god, not just the Christian one.


The thing to remember is, you dont need to be religious to believe in god, nor do you have to believe in god to be religious.


Mmm... This just reaks of doublespeak. It makes no sense.


Also, that if there is a god, (s)he/it isnt doing anything down here, its all up to mankind to make its choice and fight to survive.


I agree. We are what we make of ourselves. No god required.

Also, cut this (s)he/it stuff. Let's just call God a "he" out of historical respect.


What i have worked out for myself thus far is, that if there is a god, (S)He/it wont hold it against me for being myself and not worshiping Her/him/it.


I agree 100% Yet, all scripture teaches us that the most important criteria for acceptance into heaven (or paradise, or whatever) is belief. That is numero uno. Don't believe? Go straight to hell! Do not collect $200.


Having faith in something greater is what gives many the will to fight that much harder to achieve thier goals.


How is this inherently good? There are some men who believed so strongly that their God would favour them as martyrs that they hijacked airliners and flew them into buildings.

When it comes to religion, the only thing men fight for is the desire to please their God. Their God who commands that they kill anyone who fails to believe in him.


If you read the bible it teaches lessons, not that you must believe in god, but life lessons, saying that by believing in "God" and work hard for him/her/it you will succeed and good things will come to you. But its also just as easy to change "God" to "Yourself" and get the same result.


Yes. Lessons like it is OK to rape a woman, but not a man:

Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Genesis 19:4 - 19:8.


If there is a god, then i think of God like a child with an ant farm, provided a world and is letting us do what we want while God sits back and watched.


This is deism. Different from modern religions, but equally irrational.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism


If there is a god, Cancer isnt a creation of His/Hers/its, as it always a problem to the human race, its the crap we eat, breath, put on our skin and live in that causes it, much like alot of the other harmful things to us.
Everyone dies, we can only do our best with the time we are given.


Yeah, the bad things are never God's fault. Whatever.

God is apparently omnipotent and omniscient. Nothing happens unless he gives the OK.

Here's a nice paradox:

God is omnipotent (all powerful) and omniscient (knows all). The fact that the 2006 tsunami (or any disaster) happens, means that God knew about it before it happened (omniscience). Since he knew about it, and he is apparently a good god only capable of doing good things, why didn't he stop it (omnipotence)?
 Akutenshi

Joined: 11/26/2007
Msg: 217
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/12/2008 6:11:33 AM

Well, I'd like to hear your arguments for God's existence. By "God" I mean, any only god, not just the Christian one.


im kind of confused by the "any only god" bit, but will give it a shot.
I assume you mean argue for the existance of a god such as... Odin? Re?
Well, the problem that comes into arguing for any god is the fact that theres no real proof and the only way to make it real is to believe in it 100% like a child to santa clause.
No form of god or gods is any more realy than the Christian one except the amount of people that currently believe in it.

Instead of "argue" i should have said "understand there to be just as much reason as there to be a god, as there is for there not to be one."
My bad there.


Mmm... This just reaks of doublespeak. It makes no sense.

It means, you dont have to specificaly be a part of a religious group to believe that there is or may be a greater power out there.
People do things religiously to better themselves or the worlds around them every day but dont slap a "God is doing this for me/im doing this for god" or "Im apart of Religion X" for all to see.


Also, cut this (s)he/it stuff. Let's just call God a "he" out of historical respect.

What does and atheist care of the historical given genders of something they dont believe in?
I can type what i like about it, just as you can if you so choose.


Yet, all scripture teaches us that the most important criteria for acceptance into heaven (or paradise, or whatever) is belief. That is numero uno. Don't believe? Go straight to hell! Do not collect $200

Well yeh, if you believe every single word that was written into a book ages ago by someone who probably still thought the world was flat and the stood imobile as the sun orbited it.


How is this inherently good? There are some men who believed so strongly that their God would favour them as martyrs that they hijacked airliners and flew them into buildings.

When it comes to religion, the only thing men fight for is the desire to please their God. Their God who commands that they kill anyone who fails to believe in him.


Just as many men would torcher an innosent person into confessing that they were a witch so they could burn them on a stick in the name of god.
You cant blame a riligion for the acts of those that interperate it wrongly and act upon it to do harm to others, or you may aswell be standing next to the people that say Video games and movies cause people to become violent.


Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Genesis 19:4 - 19:8.

Ok, i laughed at that, yeh, there are some realy realy stupid stories in the bible to.
But did you know in some translations where it says they whent to rape the men (Who were said to be angels sent from god to save Lots family) it actualy says they whent to meet them, not rape them. Yay for F%#k ups in translation eh?


This is deism. Different from modern religions, but equally irrational.

Its as rational as any other religion, and as i said, "If" there is a god. So yeh, if i believed there to be a One God, i would be a Deist. But i dont so i aint.


Yeah, the bad things are never God's fault. Whatever.

God is apparently omnipotent and omniscient. Nothing happens unless he gives the OK.

I didnt say God gives an Ok to anything, nor did i say he was responsible for anything.
Just that "If There is a god" blaming things like Cancer and such on God is just as good a reason to blame to boogey man for it. Its us that cuasing most of the things that are killing us befor our old age gets us.


Here's a nice paradox:

God is omnipotent (all powerful) and omniscient (knows all). The fact that the 2006 tsunami (or any disaster) happens, means that God knew about it before it happened (omniscience). Since he knew about it, and he is apparently a good god only capable of doing good things, why didn't he stop it (omnipotence)?


Wait, i have a better one, Could god super heat a buirrito so hot, not even he himself could eat it?

From the way you talk about your views, you seem more like you are angry at God, rather than not believe in God.
 Chiny®™©

Joined: 7/2/2006
Msg: 218
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/12/2008 11:13:37 AM

do you believe in a god? any god?

and why?


Wow…….what a question, it tends to involve some very emotive beliefs, for most anyways.

I shall assume you are speaking of the God of Abraham, as He is the most popular adopted God of Europeans and there are no other popular God or Gods that Europeans worship, least that I know of. So, my immediate answer would be NO.

WHY SO?

Bear with me while I try to construct an answer.

The God of Abraham is an Asian belief that was adopted and then adapted to suit European ways. When Europeans converted, they abandoned their own polytheistic pagan Gods in favour of the monotheistic God of Abraham. (Abraham was an Iraqi btw). Abraham’s God is known as Jehovah to the Jews, Allah to the Muslims and God to the Christians. He is one and the same God of all the three different interpretations (faiths), of the exact same ancient scriptures that were written over 2,000 years ago by primitive Asian men. They were written in ancient Aramaic and Hebrew. Exact meaning/knowledge of these old languages, lost in time and linguists can only deliver their best guess as to their meanings. Scholars even to this day argue their meanings. (There are also some scripts in the Vatican’s possession that they refuse to release. Why I wonder?)

Why the Europeans adopted an Asian religion above their own is beyond me.

However, Europeans have added certain stories/myths and then attributed them to the original story. This I feel is incongruous to the context of the original scriptures and to me its just unscrupulous editing to the point of falsifying the original text to make it “fit” into European culture.

So what am I on about?

The subject is extremely large, so to save time and space here’s a couple of thoughts.

Jesus of Nazareth: Jesus was a Galilean Jew, was regarded as a teacher and healer and was crucified in Jerusalem on orders of the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate under the accusation of sedition against the Roman Empire. The Romans were Europeans, so thus it is Europeans that tortured and then killed Jesus and not the Jews. Sure the Jews acquiesced in His death but did not carry out the physical act of the killing.

Jesus never had blond hair, blue eyes or white skin. He had black hair, brown or black eyes and brown skin as is the norm for the populace of Western Asia. He spoke no English in fact he only spoke Aramaic and ancient Hebrew. In today’s terms he would be a “rag head” to borrow an American term of abhorrence. If He would appear today and walk the streets of Perth or anywhere else in Australia he would be arrested, probably beaten up by the Police and thrown in gaol as a suspected Middle Eastern terrorist. In the USA he would probably be shot on sight! We’re a little more timid.

God’s chosen people were the Jews, that’s it, simple and closed shop. As is stated in the Old Testament or The Torah as the Jews refer to it. Nobody else could enter, and then along comes Jesus. He created a new category of Jew and He called them “Spiritual Jews”. This allowed for “gentiles” to enter into the Kingdom of God. (Gentiles just means non-Jews). That upset many of the Temple High Priests and is one of the many reasons why they acquiesced to the killing of Jesus. But Jesus’ new category of “Jew”, later called Christian, had to live their lives just the same as real Jews. (No easy thing). In other words, they had to obey Jewish laws, culture and beliefs. Such things as circumcisions for males, and not eating certain foods such as pork, rabbit, fish with no scales, crabs, prawns, reptiles, etc, etc, etc. The list is quite long! Can you imagine Christmas day in Australia without the leg of ham or prawns? Nonetheless Jesus Himself and his 12 disciples and all the early followers of Jesus never partook in those foods. Christian Preachers will deny this as they deny many of the laws of God, when they do not fit into European culture/ways.

This is what I mean by “Europeans adopting and then adapting the teachings of Jesus to suit European ways”.

Here’s one from Timothy, which may be relevant to present controversy in our society:

“In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array. But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve and Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”

Timothy speaks of Eve’s transgression in the Garden of Eden where Satan fooled her into eating fruit from the tree of knowledge. That resulted in the expulsion of mankind from Eden. Perhaps when he says “that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array”. Maybe the Islamic interpretation of Timothy is the reason that some Muslim women are covered head to toe?? Could well be, as Muslims and Christians follow the New Testament. (Jews don’t) It's also interesting that early drawings of Jewish women, show them as covered, head to toe just the same as Muslim women?

Christian Nun’s whom claim to be the brides of Jesus also follow this head to toe dress standard. Strange how Europeans feel that is a different matter and quite acceptable? The Nun’s also used to wear a veil over their faces but this was dropped some time ago. I don’t know when.

Not my beliefs just my thoughts and quotes from the King James Bible. This is just some of the reasons why I don’t subscribe to what the Church says is the truth!

I am not a Buddhist, but I must admit that a lot of the teachings of the Buddhists seem to make sense?


You think your religion is right and all others are wrong??

No Buddhist who understands the Buddha's teaching thinks that other religions are wrong. No-one who has made a genuine effort to examine other religions with an open mind could think like that either. The first thing you notice when you study the different religions is just how much they have in common. All religions acknowledge that man's present state is unsatisfactory. All believe that a change of attitude and behaviour is needed if man's situation is to improve. All teach an ethics that includes love, kindness, patience, generosity and social responsibility and all accept the existence of some form of Absolute.
They use different languages, different names and different symbols to describe and explain these things; and it is only when they narrow- mindedly cling to their one way of seeing things that religious tolerance, pride and self-righteousness arise.
Imagine an Englishman, a Frenchman, a Chinese and an Indonesian all-looking at a cup. The Englishman says, "That is a cup." The Frenchman answers, "No it's not. It's a tasse." The Chinese comments, "You are both wrong. It's a pei." And the Indonesian laughs at the others and says "What a fool you are. It's a cawan."
The Englishman gets a dictionary and shows it to the others saying, "I can prove that it is a cup. My dictionary says so." "Then your dictionary is wrong," says the Frenchman "because my dictionary clearly says it is a tasse." The Chinese scoffs at them. "My dictionary is thousands of years older than yours, so my dictionary must be right. And besides, more people speak Chinese than any other language, so it must be pei." While they are squabbling and arguing with each other, a Buddhist comes up and drinks from the cup. After he has drunk, he says to the others, "Whether you call it a cup, a tasse, a pei or a cawan, the purpose of the cup is to be used. Stop arguing and drink, stop squabbling and refresh your thirst". This is the Buddhist attitude to other religions..


Do Buddhist believe in god?

No, they do not. There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas and especially the god idea have their origin in fear. The Buddha says:
"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".
Primitive man found himself in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes was constantly with him. Finding no security, he created the idea of gods in order to give him comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.
The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god’s words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god’s nature, that their god exists and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming.
The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin on the universe. But this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god’s power is necessary because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties, through their own inner resources, through their own efforts and without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. But this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart and encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.


Hey I’m not a Buddhist, but he makes more sense then the others! Especially the early morning American fundamentalist fanatics that are on the telly.

I could go on and on but I think my thoughts have been delivered.
 CavesBeach

Joined: 12/19/2005
Msg: 219
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/12/2008 2:04:33 PM
being from the order of the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster makes you a pastafarian

i gotta join
 muckraker

Joined: 1/1/2007
Msg: 220
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/12/2008 5:11:09 PM

It means, you dont have to specificaly be a part of a religious group to believe that there is or may be a greater power out there.
People do things religiously to better themselves or the worlds around them every day but dont slap a "God is doing this for me/im doing this for god" or "Im apart of Religion X" for all to see.


I still don't follow. When you say "people do things religiously", do you mean they are doing them in the name of a God? Or they are doing them because they think it will please their God?

I'd like to think people can do good things for the sake of being good, rather than for the selfish reason of pleasing a God so he will be nice to you when you die.

This is almost like the old canard the fundamentals trot out - Oh, you're atheist? You must think it OK to go around killing people then. It always gives me chuckles that, obviously, the only reason these people don't go around committing murder is because of the big surveillance camera in the sky.


What does and atheist care of the historical given genders of something they dont believe in?


Nothing. As Richard Dawkins once said, I see no difference between a non-existent male and a non-existent female.

But it sure is easier that writing (s)he/it every time. Pisses the feminists right off, too.


Well yeh, if you believe every single word that was written into a book ages ago by someone who probably still thought the world was flat and the stood imobile as the sun orbited it.


So who gets to decide which bits are real and which bits are fluff? Who are we to question the written word of God?


You cant blame a riligion for the acts of those that interperate it wrongly and act upon it to do harm to others


"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." - Blaise Pascal.

There is no need to misinterpret the scripture - it is quite clear about what men should do to defend their Gods honor, and what they will get in return. Just look at the cries for Jihad whenever someone says something not so nice about the Qur'an. This is not a minority thing - it is mainstream.


, or you may aswell be standing next to the people that say Video games and movies cause people to become violent.


When someone goes on a murderous rampage because Half Life explicitly told him to do so and he willingly does it in the name of Half Life because he believe he will be rewarded by the publisher and his actions are defended by other Half Life players, then you might have a point.


But did you know in some translations where it says they whent to rape the men (Who were said to be angels sent from god to save Lots family) it actualy says they whent to meet them, not rape them. Yay for F%#k ups in translation eh?


I am aware of a translation which states "Bring them out to us so that we may know them". With "Know" having the traditional biblical meaning: we want to screw them.

I agree that the bible today would bare little resemblance to the bible of 1,000 years ago, but keep in mind that many religious groups fight wars over the *exact written word* of their holy books.


Just that "If There is a god" blaming things like Cancer and such on God is just as good a reason to blame to boogey man for it. Its us that cuasing most of the things that are killing us befor our old age gets us.


I agree. But many people attribute even the slightest good fortune to God. Look at American athletes, for example.

There was an old woman in Turkey, IIRC, who survived under the rubble of her house for several days after an earthquake. According to her, God saved her life. Obviously, God didn't care about the other tens of thousands who weren't so lucky.


From the way you talk about your views, you seem more like you are angry at God, rather than not believe in God.


Close. Not angry at God. Angry at religion. The world would be a much better place without it.
 hilly1971

Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 221
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/12/2008 5:20:02 PM

Not angry at God. Angry at religion


I think someone might have hit the nail on the head there.God is not the problem but the people who take their religious beliefs to the extreme are.
 chelloveck

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 222
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History
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/13/2008 8:11:35 AM

From the way you talk about your views, you seem more like you are angry at God, rather than not believe in God.


I'm doubtful that Muckraker could be angry at something that has no credible evidence for its existence. It would be as silly as being angry at the tooth fairy...or unicorns.

I can comprehend an anger concerning the misuse of god/s by the religiose for their own purposes though.
 Naamah

Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 223
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/13/2008 8:23:16 AM
^^^ Now don't be going and underestimating how infuriating unicorns can be.

I just read something I thought was really cute...someone wrote that his take on religion was that "the whole thing is just a bunch of people arguing about whose imaginary friend is better".
 whitegold765

Joined: 12/26/2007
Msg: 224
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simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/13/2008 9:22:21 AM
The whole concept that certain stories in the bible were mistranslated is a bit of a mislead, in my opinion. Is the bible the inspired word of God? Or is it not?

Even if you acknowledge that maybe THAT story was mistranslated (which I don't, and will say why in a minute) there are still a hundred other stories equally egregious. Let's not forget that only one being in all of history has DESTROYED THE ENTIRE EARTH... except, of course, for two of every animal and one dysfunctional family.

As to the story of Lot and the men who came... which translation makes more sense?

"Bring us those men, we want to meet them."
"No, they are my guests. Meet my virginal teenaged daughters instead."

"Bring us those men, we want to rape them."
"No, they are my guests. Rape my virginal teenaged daughters instead."

Clearly from a logical point of view the second one makes more sense. Disgusting, but logically coherent. It's worth pointing out that the act of giving his daughters to be gang raped was one of many reasons he was seen as "righteous" in the eyes of God. He (and his family) were the only ones spared when God destroyed Sodom, thus spoiling the fun for the rest of us. I shudder to think what else Lot might have done that made him so "good".


Moving on to Chiny:


Why the Europeans adopted an Asian religion above their own is beyond me.

Fear of death. Nothing more and nothing less. The religion of proto-Christianity spread through the middle east and jumped to Greece and then to Rome. Initially it was brutally supressed. Nero, in particular, used Christians in Roman bloodsports to distract the public from internal issues. But Constantine in the early fourth century suddenly and dramatically had a change of "heart". He saw in the growing Christian population a way to seize even MORE power than ever before, and not long after Rome became Christian. The term "Catholic", by the way, is from a Greek word that means "General", or "Universal", and with a the size of the empire of Rome across Europe, Asia and the Middle East, that's almost what it became. Orthodoxy and acceptance of the new religion was not one of choice or of "a new and better God". It was enforced by an invading army, and made so intrinsic to the community that even when the empire's military faded the power of the Vatican never did.


The Romans were Europeans, so thus it is Europeans that tortured and then killed Jesus and not the Jews. Sure the Jews acquiesced in His death but did not carry out the physical act of the killing.

Partially true. But Pilate asked the crowd a number of times if there was any way he could spare Jesus life. That's why he was whipped, to pacify the crowd, to spare Jesus' life. Later the crowd was asked if they wanted to spare Jesus or a man called Barabbas, known as a murder, terrorist, bandit, or various other things in different gospels or translations. To suggest that the Jews of the time bore no guilt for his death is pointless. It doesn't justify antisemitism to say that, in my opinion.


Jesus never had blond hair, blue eyes or white skin. He had black hair, brown or black eyes and brown skin as is the norm for the populace of Western Asia. He spoke no English in fact he only spoke Aramaic and ancient Hebrew.

Indeed. He was a Jew, and would have looked (to our ignorant eyes) exactly like anyone else from that region. Definitely NOT a blond haired blue eyed man! But I don't think that's any way hidden. It's natural for people to personalise things. We assume Jesus was white because we are. It's human nature, not a conspiracy.


along comes Jesus. He created a new category of Jew and He called them “Spiritual Jews”. This allowed for “gentiles” to enter into the Kingdom of God. (Gentiles just means non-Jews).

Wrong.

Sorry, I don't mean to dismiss you, but you're just plain wrong in this issue. Jesus spoke ONLY to Jews. He never went outside the boundaries of Jewish lands and stated explicitly that he was there for the Children of Israel.

And behold, a Canaanite woman from the region came out and cried, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon." ........ He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." But she came and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, help me." And he answered, "It is not fair to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs."

Matt. 10:5 "Go not into the way of the Gentiles"

Matt. 15:24 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

John 4:22 "Salvation is of the Jews"

It was PAUL, not Jesus, who extended the mission to include the Gentiles. He was also a zealot and a bigot, and probably a liar, and I despise him.


Maybe the Islamic interpretation of Timothy is the reason that some Muslim women are covered head to toe??

You have to be joking, right?! You think that MUSLIM tradition comes from a CHRISTIAN writer?! Of course it doesn't! It's from the Koran, as well as the Hadith.

Buddhism... ahhh, everyone loves buddhism. It's nice and safe. You just have to say how good everything is and everyone's happy. No need to believe in an angry god, or sin, or what-have-you.

The problem (one of them) with Buddhism is its acceptance of suffering as the "right" of all mankind. That we're made to suffer, and essentially deserve it. Because of this Buddhism has tolerated or even perpetrated suffering that it could have stopped.


The result is a depressive acceptance of social ills, taken as they are to be endured rather than cured. Anti-progressionist, such views have led the world into its darkest years. As with Christianity, when popular Buddhism informs, for example, a painfully disabled person that their present torture is a result of their own past actions or sins, the result is a harmful negativity and horrifies any compassionate person that such doctrines ever came to be. Karmic resolution and Christian sin are both harmful concepts with negative affects on society, especially on the weak and unfortunate.


The beloved Shangri-La of Buddhism, the lost paradise of Tibet is an outright fabrication. Sure it was good... if you were in power. It was a despotic theocracy, kept in power by Buddhism itself, and followed the law of Buddhism utterly.


The theocracy’s religious teachings buttressed its class order. The poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives. Hence they had to accept the misery of their present existence as a karmic atonement and in anticipation that their lot would improve in their next lifetime. The rich and powerful treated their good fortune as a reward for, and tangible evidence of, virtue in past and present lives.

The people were basically serfs, slaves to their religious overlords who of course DESERVED their place. No one was ever killed. That wouldn't be right according to the laws of Buddhism. They were, however, disembowelled. And then "left to God". And they were tortured. Raped. People had their hands and feet cut off.

People always say how nice Buddhism is and how lovely it is and it's true that today's western Buddhism is basically just well meaning wishy washy New Aged mysticism, which has little to know harm besides being stupid. But I'll leave the last word on religion to a quote.


Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: “When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion.”
 taz in love

Joined: 12/11/2007
Msg: 225
simple question - do you believe in a god?
Posted: 1/14/2008 6:52:19 PM
I believe in God,,,,he isn't there to make only good things happen, he is there to guide you. Hopefully to see that along with the bad in this world, there is good. Some people were born with a "lucky horse shoe" up their ass and it can seem very unfair. But, life is not fair. Everything happens for a reason so seek God for guidance, not answers. Just my opinion.

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