| History not learned.
Posted: 5/7/2005 7:20:27 PM | | During the Crusades, the Christians tried to take over Jerusalum and did make some kind of headway in the Middle East. But Saladin, the Great Muslim leader, defeated the Christians and sent them packing. It is not our place to bring or impose democracy on the Muslim world. Therefore, our troops are in Harm's Way, and we need to get them out. The new Iraqi world will revert back to their customs and ways, which is not our affair. Bring the troops home, and let America tend to it's own needy people, help the sick, improve the medical system, and the huge increase coming in elderly care that is much needed. The private sector will not be the answer. It never has been. But the changes that are coming will be more socialization of American society. It has to be, and corporate big dogs should be driven out. There is too much corruption in the U.S. It will take a Democratic socialist to bring us back into line. The current migration of all peoples into the U.S. will destroy the current Anglo-Protestant, and Anglo-Saxon control of past decades. The Muslims are here, with other religions and Christianity must accept their losses once again. You cannot fight the hordes of immigrants and different people who have different ideas from the old style corporation domination of the U. S. The government will have to step in and dictate more to such corruption in high places. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 5/7/2005 7:40:34 PM | Bush is oil people. There is oil in the region. The US needs the oil, and control of energy markets. It is a strategic war to protect US interests including wealth. Iraq was made recently and combines older nations. How the region is governed affects the US. The question of ideaology and historical cultures is secondary to the immediate concern of controling the energy resource directly, and the region for that purpose. Absent US intervention the region remains in play, the local players unable to constrain the radical elements that would pursue destruction and conquest. The world is what it is made to be by who acts.
The immigrants who come to the US do not seek its destruction now anymore than they have previoulsy. The goal has always been to build a better life sharing a common fate as a people who govern themselves. The threat has always been the imposition of religious dogma in place of secular law. This threat exists more from Bush & Co. than any outsiders. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 5/7/2005 8:25:23 PM | | The MARKET controls prodution, along with refining capacity, not Bush or anyone else...get a clue... | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 5/7/2005 8:53:14 PM | | You know acburbank I think people that hate Bush are starting to see how wrong they are. They are afraid of him suceeding. Hating Bush is not gonna make him a failure. Just like hating America is not gonna make us fail. Terrorists hate us for everything we believe in. Their attacks only make us stronger as a Nation. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 5/8/2005 4:10:57 AM | | Terrorists don't hate us because of what we believe in. They hate us because of our policies. If they hate freedom and democracy, why didn't they attack Sweden, or Holland, or France? They hate us because our footprints are all over the Muslim world. We have troops in the following Muslim countries: Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan. We support corrupt, anti-democratic countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Pakistan with money and arms. We invaded and are occupying a country in the heart of the Muslim world. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have much more to do with terrorism than Iraq ever did, but they are our "friends". This is all about control of oil and energy. Now we are threatening Iran. Why? They have lots of oil and natural gas, and a government that doesn't do what we say. And by the way, because some of us criticize our government's policies, doesn't mean that we "hate America". Some of us believe that we must see things as they are, not how we would like them to be. This is a great country, but history shows us that it's motives are not always 100% pure. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 5/8/2005 5:14:59 AM | Credit where credit is due. The motives are at least 5% pure. Let's not be cynical needlessly or without a sense of humor, is all I'm saying.
The Pro-Bush, pro-American right-or-wrong, pro-go live in Russia if you don't support the President people, who may call themselves something else, are looking at the world from a much different view than are people who seek to explain what they see happening in terms of what is actually going on. Their view is that you begin with patriotism and belief in apple pie, and then it is your duty to shape your opinions to support those beliefs. This is exactly the style of thinking that is required by their religious traditions, of accepting on faith the validity of the story as it is told, then shaping your own perspective according to the story. This is the same type of view that the enemy uses. It's the type of perspective and not what is seen, that determines how conflicts are created and then wars are waged. Discussions of subjects follow as polarized battles. the defenders of the righteous truth will attack anything that is identified as incoming rounds, which it is for being in disagreement. This is because for such people, ideas are either wrong or right, and then the people who have the wrong ones are the enemy. It is good exercise but entirely pointless to discuss things with people whose discussion style is entirely antagonistic. carry on, o yea defenders of the faith, slay thine enemies and make the world safe for, um, something. SUV's? | |
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| Support our Troops!!!
Posted: 6/25/2005 6:36:35 PM | As another Canadian I share my views with rugbyguy!Hopefully they can get back soon! | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 7:27:44 PM | | well im not going to get in on the US and Bush bashing nonsense that is on this post.this is not teh place for it,,,as a Canadian i support our troops in Afganistan and the coalition troops in Iraq,,,God Bless them all,and lets hope they finish the good work and get home safely | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 7:37:11 PM | | i think if your stupid enough to beleive the hype to the point where your willing to die for it, go ahead and do so. in this current situation i don't support the troops at all. they had a choice, and they made it. they decided to invade a sovereign nation without provocation. most did it for vengeance. under such circumstances one deserves what is waiting for them over there. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 7:46:09 PM | they had a choice, and they made it.
heres a clue ,,,they dont have a choice,they go where they are told and do what they are told,,,thats what happens when you are in the army..the soldiers are there to protect democracy,,,not practice it.they cant sit back and say hmm now do i agree with this or am im not sure about that,,maybe i`ll jsut sit back and think about it,it doesnt work that way,,they are there doing one hell of a tuff job that noone else in the free world had the guts to do or the moral courage to stand up to these kind of terrorists and tyranny.come on,,,ok you dont like Bush thats your choice,,but to degrade these men and say tehy get what they deserve???that is jsut totally wrong.i think you should sit back and rethink what your saying and beleiveing there. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 7:52:27 PM | | bottom line is you can leave. you may get in trouble, but i would rather get in trouble than kill someone over nothing. its a matter of morals. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 7:53:11 PM | The United States would not be a country if men and women hadn't put their lives on the line. We wouldn't be here having this discussion.
Not every war our men and women have fought in won everyones approval. It shouln't be just our duty to end the suffering of people that has been abused for years. It should be the worlds duty.
By invading Kuwait, Saddam had broke promises to three distinct peoples. To his own people, to his Arab "brothers" and to the rest of the world . He had promised his citizens of Iraq a better life after the long war with Iran. He had also promised economic stability. Instead Saddam gave his people unemployment, a war that destroyed their country, crushed nationalism, and a broken economy. To his Arab brothers he promised that Iraq would lead them to greatness and develop a military power that would equal Israel. His military visions led to Arab attacking Arab on the battlefield. To the world he broke international law after international law. He repeated himself that he would not invade Kuwait. Many world leaders believed him and thought of him as a reliable trading partner until this war.
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 7:59:38 PM | what im saying is that the only wars we actually need to fight are the ones with a valid reason behind them. going to war is only justified when a country poses an immenant threat to you, and is committed to attacking you.
lets see:
needed wars: ww2, revolutionary war.
un needed wars: everything else.
to say that the deaths of our troops in korea, vietnam, iraq, gulf war, and the countless others made us any free-er is rediculous. those wars were faught over political interests. we did fine as isolationists, why the hell can't we go back to that and save some money and lives in the process? | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 8:04:03 PM | | The concept that we should let the world sink into chaos, and only act when that chaos finally reaches our door, is incredibly short-sighted. We go to war for many reasons, including helping those who are being oppressed. I don't understand why we should turn our back on genocide in Rwanda, or starvation in Somalia. Where is your compassion? | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 8:19:42 PM | my compassion is for the people here at home. you know, the ones the republicans always try to screw over with every chance they get.
We go to war for many reasons, including helping those who are being oppressed. I don't understand why we should turn our back on genocide in Rwanda, or starvation in Somalia.
none of these reasons are good enough for us to lose lives over. that is their problem. we have our own. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 8:37:17 PM | Support out troops: bring them HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOME!!!
They're stuck over there unable to get out of the military... they're being "stop lossed" and every other damned thing. They were lied to: told this wouldn't happen unless there was a national emergency... WE DON'T HAVE TO BE OVER THERE. THIS IS NOT A NATIONAL EMERGENCY.
LET'S get this jerk out of office by whatever means it takes... impeach, arrest.. whatever the hell.
This war will never be won. It's unfair to keep our soldiers over there fighting for NOTHING. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 8:45:03 PM | | Soldiers join to serve and fight and die. The reasons don't matter as long as the war experience lives up to expectations. I support their choice to go elsewhere and wage war. If they wanted to do so here, I would withdraw my support. It would make traffic even worse. | |
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| Support our Troops!!!
Posted: 6/25/2005 9:16:20 PM | | sorry. but your idea sounds like a pep rally. america has always shown support for its troops. a better question to ask is does america support this war? | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 9:18:23 PM | | that's right on, Takoma! very informed views you have. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 10:25:28 PM | | The war grows more unpopular each day. Enrollment in the Military is decreasing rapidly. Wait till the Government announces the resurrection of the draft and see how people react. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/25/2005 11:25:43 PM | | That's a shame. Why can't we go back to the days when war was very popular, and we killed just for fun. Anyway, I can't wait for the draft to come back. My generation has next to no idea what it means to sacrifice for our country. I couldn't imagine what it must be like to live in a country with only a vague recollection of what it means to fight against oppression, and realize how lucky we are to live in a country like the US. And, no, I'm not specifically pointing at Canada as an example of that. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/26/2005 1:29:06 AM | Yes, when human lives to General Westmoreland were just numbers and we didn't have a clue why our youth were in the jungle.....
Sorta like now, with our youth dying in the sand dunes of yet another foreign country....fighting for what? Our freedoms? Yeah, right. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/26/2005 2:10:13 AM | | For the freedom of the Iraqi people. Plus, any democracy in the middle east will surely be to our benefit in the long run. | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/26/2005 7:46:32 AM |
For the freedom of the Iraqi people
Freedom... Like the freedom to hold corporate contractors responsible for human rights abuses, environmental degradation and labor-related misconduct?
Whoops.. That was signed away by Bush's Executive Order 13303, which gave blanket immunity to international contractors...
http://www.seen.org/BushEO.shtml
How's that for freedom? | |
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| History not learned.
Posted: 6/26/2005 8:11:58 AM | | When I read the original post I knew this would soon degrade into a Canada bash.If a few Canadians decide to disagree and post on this thread bash them individually.Canada is'nt necessarily represented by posters on here just as you pro Americans are'nt an accurate representation of the U.S.A. As a canadian that counts the U.S.A. as a great friend and ally but does'nt necessarily support your current administration, I still support your troops and wish them Godspeed on their current assignment.Hopefully they can all get home safely. | |
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