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| Support our Troops!!!
Posted: 4/10/2007 1:39:33 AM | Ref. to MSG 193_
Concerning some soldiers signing a petition, key word is "some". Most are not. Most want to see this through. | |
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| Support the Tropes??
Posted: 4/10/2007 7:45:09 AM | Ms ToolTime, should I meet your son, I would make a point of thanking him for his service, just as I thank my niece, now on her second tour around Nadjaf, and quite a few friends over there. It is a noble calling and only to be honored and respected.
This does not apply to the bungling, draft-dodging civilians who have put our best into an untenable situation without a military objective. The last four years make manifest that our military presence in Iraq makes us less safe here at home, not to mention the ongoing danger to our service people there and the Iraqi populace. No one can describe even an acceptable outcome, let alone what 'victory' might look like.
Did you notice this footnote to the week's deaths over there? There's an Iraqi, who participated in that much-publicized pulling-down of the statue of Hussein the day Baghdad fell, who appears in those images attacking the statue's pedestal with a pickaxe. He was one of the poster Iraqis used in those early days to whip up support for the invasion.
Well, he says now - he actually says - that life was better, safer, easier, under Hussein. He says he wishes we had never invaded.
I won't argue that he's a belweather. I don't think I have to. If this administration's bungling has brought such total regret to even one of our passionate allies in the capitol - as it has - then none of us should take seriously the claim that our continued occupation makes us safe. It makes us enemies in a region where we desperately need friends.
Let's put our service people where they really can defend us. Let's redeploy to the real war, in Afghanistan, and get out of that awful civil war in Iraq, which our presence - despite the best of intentions - can only make worse.
Vulf | |
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| Support the Tropes??
Posted: 4/10/2007 10:09:14 PM | | To ALL you miltary moms, dads, sisters and brothers, and anyone else that has someone they love over there...don't listen to the conspiracy nuts...we ALL want them home...but we also support them til they DO come home...and just because we support a soldier, doesn't mean we agree with the ones who sent them...thank your loved ones when you can for having the guts to protect and defend. It'slike it was stated earlier...this is a SUPPORT thread, not a BASH thread. They just don't have a lot to do at two in the morning, and it's fun to make people angry. | |
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| Support the Tropes??
Posted: 4/11/2007 7:03:40 AM | having the guts to protect and defend
Hmmm...while I do agree that the soldiers have the guts to protect and defend, I do have a question... Who are they protecting us from exactly???
By the way, it's 10:10am right now. | |
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| Support the Tropes??
Posted: 4/11/2007 7:29:09 AM | Remember , in the end, that those men (as ALL troops do, when in combat) do not fight and die for democracy, freedom, or any such esoteric thought then. Those only occur before. and after, the bullets start to fly.
When the fight is on : they fight, and they die, for the man on their right - and on their left.
That brotherhood (or perhaps better now labelled personhood) is something which most of us will never understand - thankfully.
Military service is probably the least appreciated, and most underpaid, job in the world.
There are times when they are the only thing between us and oppression. There are times when they are the only thing that will liberate a nation. We've seen those things in our history, and the freedoms and liberty we take for granted are in no small part due directly to the result of our military and it's effort.
We can discuss the merits of the mission, but that discussion should never hold the troops involved in anything other than the highest level of regard for their service to the nation. | |
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| Support the Tropes??
Posted: 4/11/2007 8:38:54 AM | That's my point. We should hold people accountable directly for the results of their actions. The advocates of blind support for blind warfare ignore the concept of personal responsibility. I believe the concept is central to freedom and democracy. Sorry if it infringes on a vague warm fuzzy feeling of honor, duty, pride, patriotism, etc. but those sentiments must take a back seat to reality if the result of blind war is unintended evil against innocent peoples, which it is, invariably.
If they want to bond in combat without any larger reason, have them fight in the arena like the Romans used to do. Glorification of personal sacrifice at the expense of the innocent people maimed and killed is tragic, unwise, misguided, and ultimately false. There is no honor in fighting unjust war. It deserves no support. A man with a gun is not deserving of support just because of romantic notions. To believe as you do, in what way do you dismiss the real human costs of war, not the cost to the troops but to their victims? Take into account the kill ratio and there are quite a few innocent Iraqi dead to ignore when you support the men who killed them following orders.
It's an important point to me because I see it as the way families with good intentions wind up delivering for duty their children who know no better, into the hands of a machine that uses them immorally to effect evil policies against other human beings. To avoid realizing the murderous insanity for what it is, a great leap of faith is taken that the war must be just, even when it clearly is not, because otherwise it would be too horrible to consider that men fight and die and kill for nothing, for worse than nothing; for goals and policies that are directly opposite of the values held by that family. Yet facts speak for themselves and it is better to speak up, point it out, so that maybe each generation at least some people will look past the sentimental propaganda and see lies, and turn back from the recruiting office, and stay home from waging war on innocent neighbors around the world. | |
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| Support the Tropes??
Posted: 4/11/2007 2:33:51 PM | ....at least some people will look past the sentimental propaganda and see lies, and turn back from the recruiting office, and stay home from waging war on innocent neighbors around the world.
A timeless Latin phrase springs to mind here.....
"Si vis pacem, para bellum " , or "If you want peace, prepare for war."
If those men and women turn their back on the recruiting office, then one day (if history is any guide) they will perhaps have been found to have turned their backs on protecting their nation, as well. Innocent people will die, because people believed that walking away from military service would kill "innocent people".
We live in a Darwinian world, and that applies in a geopolitical sense too. The concept of " Peace and Love" is an intelligent and noble one.....except for one great problem.
For it to work, everyone must accept and believe it. Again, history has proven that some people won't.
The protection against the abuse of the military starts when the military reflects the true nature of the population it serves. When ALL classes are involved, wars get much harder to start. 
The inherent problem today is that the aristocracy has hidden behind the skirts of various convenient excuses, and shirked their duty to both democracy and their nation. They profit from war, but never share it's burden and horror.
That's left to the middle/working class/poor area of society, who only suffer it's costs. That means a greater propensity for war, inevitably. There is too much money to be made from it to ignore.
As for this current war :
Look, there is one statement that bothers me more than anything else, and that's the idea that when the troops are in combat everybody has to shut up. Imagine if we put troops in combat with a faulty rifle, and that rifle was malfunctioning and troops were dying as a result. I can't think anyone would allow that to happen, that would not speak up. Well, what's the difference between a faulty plan and strategy that's getting just as many troops killed?
Gen. Anthony Zinni, U.S. Marine Corps (Ret.), former CENTCOM Commander-in-Chief, 2004-05-21, television interview on CBS's "60 Minutes"
We must share a pact with our men and women in uniform. They defend the nation, and the nation must also defend them. That's the problem with the current situation in Iraq.
We truly are not.
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| Support the Tropes??
Posted: 4/11/2007 2:50:09 PM | We do not live in a scary world where we need to wage war to prevent war. That is absurd. It wouldn't take everyone wising up, just enough people. If one in twenty were dedicated to peace that would be more than enough. The thing is, many people LIKE war. They like having the romance and sentimental journey of war. They like the illusion it keeps them safe. Young men like to raise hell and kick ass. Being a soldier is about that. Their soldiers are saying the same thing about our soldiers. Each side in a war is identical, and thinks of the other side as evil, ignoring the fact they do the same thing. Even their rationalizations are identical. The story of war is a cultural pattern, a custom of thought, and it is only as true as you believe in it.
You can blame the aristocracy but since we live in a democracy and are self-governing, I will continue looking to personal responsibility and blame the people who ignorantly perpetrate war as its source. There is no ruling class without a volunteer slave class. I see only that citizens shirk their duty as thinkers, resulting in ignorance, and favoring belief in lies. | |
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| Support the Tropes??
Posted: 4/11/2007 3:07:54 PM | We do not live in a scary world where we need to wage war to prevent war.
That's not what I'm saying. The military is there primarily to be used as a defensive arm of a nation. If one starts to use it in a manner that supports colonialism, profit, and conquest, then this is a corruption of it's true purpose. That's why the citizenry must support the military, through the control of the politicians, to that end.
If one in twenty were dedicated to peace that would be more than enough.
Extended to a worldwide population base, one will inevitably find that somewhere in those remaining nineteen individuals will always exist the possibility of a Hitlerlike cancer to metabolize .
Beating swords into plowshares only works when there are no more swords left. Otherwise the field you till will be taken away from you by the guy holding a sword who didn't think like you.
The thing is, many people LIKE war. They like having the romance and sentimental journey of war. They like the illusion it keeps them safe.
War is never a good thing. No one , especially a military person, will ever "honour" war.
That said, ask the living former inmates of Aushwitz and Bergen Belsen for their opinion.
In a moral world, these types of things would never occur.
History has proved that they will, and that we had best be prepared to act when it does. | |
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| Support the Tropes??
Posted: 4/11/2007 3:25:01 PM | History teaches that war is not just the combat, but the foreign policy creating the desperate conditions fomenting aggression. It is the economic practices that pressure populations. It is the way people view other peoples with suspicion, prejudice and malice. It is the failure in times of peace to engage with others in a cooperative fashion. War comes as the direct result of a culture's beliefs. The idea that the world would need to be perfect is absurd. The idea that there is no other method for preventing war than preparing for it is one of the cultural mistakes of warring peoples, and it ensures there will be war. You see war as inevitable and so you accommodate and rationalize. I see war as idiotic and preventable, and so I advocate a peaceful alternative. I'll shut up now, having said my piece. I wish you and your warriors the glory and support you wish for them. I argue only from habit, and have since given up caring one way or the other whether people kill each other. My mistake is pragmatic humanism, the least popular ism. I surrender to your heroic patriotism, the most popular. Go troops! Kill them Iraqis! Blow their heads off! Yeehaw! Thanks for keeping me safe!
OK, time for my medication. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 12:54:01 AM | Ref. to MSG205_
MG, I can live with this posting, sounds good, but I’m not sure where you are going with the term “personhood” and I’m thinking the word “thankfully” could’ve been left off. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 1:07:38 AM | Ref. to MSG 211_
Never mind, I understand personhood now. You were just trying to be politically correct. It’s because we now have women in the military, I was thinking you were suggesting individualism or something as opposed to a team.
As for “thankfully” I may just be reading it wrong as I was with “personhood”. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 6:25:55 AM |
The military is there primarily to be used as a defensive arm of a nation. If one starts to use it in a manner that supports colonialism, profit, and conquest, then this is a corruption of it's true purpose. That's why the citizenry must support the military, through the control of the politicians, to that end.
I am a little surprised about the quote above. It is crystal clear that the use of military power in regards to Iraq and Afghanistan is for power and the control of oil sales in dollars from day one. It was certainly not for a defensive arm of a nation. Saying this, supporting the military through the control of the politicians just doesn't make any sense considering that all politicians needs to do is the sale of fear to continue to create mayhem, and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
Supporting the military for a gutless, cruel and illegal war is supporting the politicians who created it in the first place…nothing more! It’s also supporting the excuses/lies to keep it going.
By NOT supporting the military, then the citizens are sending a very strong message to their government as they realized that they have been fooled and it’s unacceptable that the government can act in such way. The power should be coming from the people…not from a corrupted government that proved time and time again that lying is perfectly acceptable to kill innocent people anywhere around the globe.
Bring the men and women back home. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 7:27:21 AM | Saying this, supporting the military through the control of the politicians just doesn't make any sense considering that all politicians needs to do is the sale of fear to continue to create mayhem, and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
It requires, as does democracy, an informed electorate to accomplish.
By NOT supporting the military, then the citizens are sending a very strong message....
That message is also being sent to the troops that also defend your democratic rights. They did not choose this mission, they suffer it's devastating effects, and they cannot refuse to participate (or run the risk of deserting not only their brothers and sisters in arms, but also their service to the nation) : so that task must be ours.
Many of them, like many of us, are just doing their jobs.
If you orient yourself to supporting the men and women in uniform, and protecting them from the abuse of politicians, then you accomplish your final goal without inflicting any damage on innocent victims.
The Soldier:
By Charles M. Province
It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.
If you can read this message thank a teacher, If you are reading it in English of your own free will THANK A SOLDIER!
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves under the flag, and whose coffin is
draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.
That may sound a little "redneck "to some of you , but it also has a certain validity in it's message.
It wasn't that long ago that Japan and Germany tried to spread their political ideologies across this planet with great initial success. It wasn't so long ago that a long night fell across Europe and Asia, one that took almost six years (and tens of millions of casualities) to overcome before dawn broke again.
Let us never forget that lesson.
The only thing between this light of democracy and that black night of tyranny is our ability to respond to any need to defend it in an effective manner. That falls on the shoulders of those who serve to defend us, should that need arise.
Vietnam taught us how NOT to protest a badly thought out military action. That's another lesson we would be wise to remember. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 8:14:48 AM |
If you orient yourself to supporting the men and women in uniform, and protecting them from the abuse of politicians, then you accomplish your final goal without inflicting any damage on innocent victims.
well said | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 8:35:17 AM | Poor brainless robot troops, excused from responsibility, just following orders, and hooray for Canada the Good, standing between freedom and evil-doers. Mindless patriotism, ignorance of history, purveyors of cheap sentimentalism, why do you nauseate me so? It is because I have a delicate constitution and can't abide the rationalization of mayhem, weak critter that I am. Yes, support the troops, for they kill, maim and torture innocently, for our own good, lest the darkness of an evil empire should descend upon us, subjecting us to some army from elsewhere, made up of mindless robots who follow orders to kill, maim and torture. Oh, perespective why do you tweak my nose as the national anthem plays?
I congratulate those of you who by having been born in a good country and not a bad one, can be proud that when your armies go wage war it is a good thing they do, and not a bad thing. I am happy for you to have troops whose violence is worth it and for a good cause. I do not doubt that freedom and democracy are worth it. I just wish I could somehow link war to freedom and democracy, so I understood better. But I am simple minded and must trust in the men who make the bumper stickers. I am too simple to understand how a chunk of metal blasting through the skull of a child in their bed at night in Iraq makes me safe here in my apartment in Texas. But then again, one might argue that without such actions, my apartment complex might well be over-run with malicious Iraqi children. Come to think of it, nobody here has been bothered by anyone from Dresden or Hiroshima, as far as I can tell. I think I may be almost ready for the Kool-Aid. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 10:24:21 AM | It requires, as does democracy, an informed electorate to accomplish.
An informed electorate doesn’t guarantee a cease fire or removal of the troops. There’s just to many agendas hidden away from the citizens for these war to go on. But the voice of millions just might make the difference.
That message is also being sent to the troops that also defend your democratic rights. They did not choose this mission, they suffer it's devastating effects, and they cannot refuse to participate (or run the risk of deserting not only their brothers and sisters in arms, but also their service to the nation) : so that task must be ours.
And what’s wrong with the troops knowing that more and more people are seeing the light? I agree that they did not choose this mission but then, no one forced any of them to sign in to be a soldier in the first place. They have chosen they own career and with that choice comes criticism when need to be just as any other jobs out there. There’s nothing wrong with having your boss (citizens) displaying dissatisfaction in how a project in going just as it is true with any other jobs. Our job is to make sure that the ones responsible for this mess are fired and make things right from that point on. Unfortunately, we can only do it by standing up and saying it's enough.
If you orient yourself to supporting the men and women in uniform, and protecting them from the abuse of politicians, then you accomplish your final goal without inflicting any damage on innocent victims.
That’s the problem right now. You cannot support the men and women without supporting the abuse of politicians and as long as you will, more and more innocent lives will be tortured and killed.
The only thing between this light of democracy and that black night of tyranny is our ability to respond to any need to defend it in an effective manner. That falls on the shoulders of those who serve to defend us, should that need arise.
Nice quote but completely irrelevant in this manner as we are the tyrants right now. Saying that, who should respond to the needs and defend the people’s cause in Iraq as well as in Afghanistan? No one attacked us from Iraq or Afghanistan...No one! We attacked them...we are killing them on their own soil. We are “the black night of tyranny”.
Many highly ranked officers have criticized and even quit because of what they have done in Iraq and Afghanistan so far. Now some are doing the same against a possible war with Iran.
US generals ‘will quit’ if Bush orders Iran attack
Michael Smith and Sarah Baxter, Washington
SOME of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defense and intelligence sources.
Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack.
“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said.
These highly ranked officers are ready to say it’s enough and resign. Why should we support the troops and the government from that point on? Why should we support more carnage???
If most people would actually see the horror of it all through the media, I can guarantee you that the vast majority would stand up and say it's enough. The media is controlled by the government to make sure that the true horror stays out of the news. Pictures of body parts, women and children lying in a pool of their own blood or a mother of father holding a dismembered child in his hands while kneeling on the ground crying.
Hundreds of thousands...HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of innocent lives so far.
Support the troops? I just can’t see how I would be able to sleep at night knowingly that I support such carnage. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 1:13:14 PM | You can just do a search on any of my posts here on either the war on Iraq, or this administration, to see how I feel about both subjects. I've been against this war since it's first day.
I've never been against the troops for a single second, and most of the things I've read on their performance of the mission have impressed me to no end. Read some of those military blogs, and you'll probably even feel the same way - or at least I hope so.
When this war started, I saw (live in CNN) American troops doing some exceptionally courageous acts. In one particular case, I saw a couple of men rush out in the middle of a firefight, and render aide to an badly wounded enemy soldier - who had been trying to kill them only a minute earlier.
Some bad apples ? Certainly, as in any group of human beings.
The overwhelming majority of those troops did what they were ordered to do. Military men do not decide policy, politicians do.
I agree that they did not choose this mission but then, no one forced any of them to sign in to be a soldier in the first place. They have chosen they own career and with that choice comes criticism when need to be just as any other jobs out there.
The bond involved in that "band of brothers" is quite unlike any "other job" out there. What you have to understand, what is critical to understand, is that if a man in a combat unit decides to step up and walk away from his unit - he walks away from his brothers in the time of their greatest need. He realizes that someone else will wind up taking his place, and that person may die or be injured. These are men and women that will risk their lives for each other, willingly, if and when that need arises.
It isn't a feeling that anyone working in an office will ever understand.
No one attacked us from Iraq or Afghanistan...No one! We attacked them...we are killing them on their own soil. We are “the black night of tyranny”.
After 9/11 , after that enormous psychic shock to the West , action had to be taken. Any leader that would have accepted an attack on American soil (or any other country's soil) , without responding in a major way militarily, would have had some serious problems.
Afghanistan was a logical choice, unlike Iraq. One must also separate those two battles from each other. There was a serious need to send a message to anyone out there that such a scale of an attack would be responded to with force. Failure to do so would have been to encourage others to contemplate the same idea.
If most people would actually see the horror of it all through the media, I can guarantee you that the vast majority would stand up and say it's enough.
And the people that see it the most, and who are most affected by that fact, are the troops themselves. And they are all too often it's victims, physically and psychologically. The numbers of servicemen and women returning from Iraq with PTSD are staggering.
The battles in the streets of Iraq will continue for many of those men each and every night, as they sleep, until the last one dies of old age eighty plus years from now. We somehow think that wars end with treaties and peace conferences, but (for those who fight them) they are lifelong affairs psychologically.
Support the troops? I just can’t see how I would be able to sleep at night knowingly that I support such carnage.
As I write this, I can think of 3,294 reasons to disagree with you on this.
You must separate the men, from the mission.
"No matter what you think of the war, never disrespect the warrior . "
I came up with that line when this war started. You can find it referenced now on Google on various sites. I did so because I didn't want another "Vietnam" mentality to start in the anti-war movement, where the troops are looked down on.
They didn't deserve it then, and they certainly don't now.
Go after the politiicans, and I'll be there right beside you while you do. They deserve every single thing directed at them for want they've done to these men and women. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 3:19:09 PM |
You can just do a search on any of my posts here on either the war on Iraq, or this administration, to see how I feel about both subjects. I've been against this war since it's first day.
Oh I don’t have to do that as I do know how you feel about it. I followed many past threads about it and I can pretty much pinpoint the ones who are for it against the ones who are not.
I've never been against the troops for a single second, and most of the things I've read on their performance of the mission have impressed me to no end. Read some of those military blogs, and you'll probably even feel the same way - or at least I hope so.
I am not questioning the performances of the troops…never did and never will. On the other hand, there’s plenty of proven abuse and even murder committed by them. And we are not talking about the ones we will never find out as the troops will protect each others backs no matter the crimes committed.
The overwhelming majority of those troops did what they were ordered to do. Military men do not decide policy, politicians do.
Agreed but again, to send a powerful message to politicians, it has to be done through many channels and one not supporting the troops is a powerful method to make them (politicians) that things needs to change.
The bond involved in that "band of brothers" is quite unlike any "other job" out there. What you have to understand, what is critical to understand, is that if a man in a combat unit decides to step up and walk away from his unit - he walks away from his brothers in the time of their greatest need. He realizes that someone else will wind up taking his place, and that person may die or be injured. These are men and women that will risk their lives for each other, willingly, if and when that need arises.
Agreed.
After 9/11 , after that enormous psychic shock to the West , action had to be taken. Any leader that would have accepted an attack on American soil (or any other country's soil) , without responding in a major way militarily, would have had some serious problems.
As horrible as 9/11 was, no proof was ever provided to the Taliban in regards to Bin Laden for Afghanistan to release him to the US. This was a valid point back then just as it would’ve been today. If Bin Laden would’ve been in any other country with the means to defend themselves asking for asylum, they would’ve demanded proof of the accusations before handing him over to the US.
After 9/11, the US attacked Afghanistan, even though there was no evidence against Bin Laden. The western media itself acknowledged that Bin Laden was created by America, but more than 30,000 Afghan civilians were killed in revenge, unjustly, for 3000 Americans. Is the life of Muslims so cheap?
TARIN KOT, Afghanistan (February 13, 2002 9:48 a.m. EST) - U.S.
warplanes dropped bombs and fired missiles at women and children
escaping an attack on a Taliban stronghold in the first weeks of the
U.S.-led war, survivors and a U.S.-allied provincial governor said
Wednesday. At least a dozen children were reported killed.
How about this one…
March 2002
When U.S. warplanes strafed [with AC-130 gunships] the farming village of Chowkar-Karez, 25 miles north of Kandahar on October 22-23rd,killing at least 93 civilians, a Pentagon official said, "the people there are dead because we wanted them dead." The reason? They sympathized with the Taliban1. When asked about the Chowkar incident, Rumsfeld replied, "I cannot deal with that particular village."2
They were killed because they sympathized with their own government??? And we accept that??? How many times have we read such cowardly acts since 2001?
Soldiers have a moral obligation to defend civilians…Not to kill them.
The attack was not justified back then just as it’s not today. Saying that Afghanistan was a logical choice doesn’t make any sense unless of course, the US had already an agenda in regards to the country.
As I write this, I can think of 3,294 reasons to disagree with you on this.
And I can think of “720,461 Iraquis and 30,000 Afghans civilians
not counting the 1,296,830 seriously injured up to Feb. 2007” to reinforce my position.
Go after the politiicans, and I'll be there right beside you while you do. They deserve every single thing directed at them for want they've done to these men and women.
That is exactly what we are doing by not supporting these wars anymore. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 3:34:41 PM | It is a flight of fancy to absolve a man of responsibility for the acts he commits just because someone else told him to do them. If that held true, I could tell you to shoot your mother and you would not have broken any laws, as you were just following orders. The military code of justice requires a soldier to refuse an immoral order. In an immoral war, every order to do harm is such an order. It is pointless to argue with people who have abandoned reason and law in favor of sentiment, because they think backwards, rationalizing what they like to believe in, at the cost of truth, in the face of facts. There is no other way to support a war than to support the troops waging it. Without their acts there is no war, only rhetoric. War is not policy, it is young men with guns killing people. When an American soldier goes several thousands of miles to shoot someone else's mother on the say-so of a corrupt politician, he is misguided at best but still responsible for the bullet that leaves the barrel of his rifle and the damage it causes. Support that act if you will, for that is what a war is, that is what a troop does, it is that act multiplied and the rest is words, and for what purpose? Your patriotism and your phantom demons are figments of imagination. Hot steel and lead are real.
I have to stop reading this thread. It drives me nuts seeing the blather here.
Honor, country, freedom, ...
...and piles of dead people who did nothing wrong in any sense of the word.
How someone can be so blind to support a war that is so obviously false sickens me, even though I have watched this before, it is amazing to know what kind of delusion is possible in an intelligent mind. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/12/2007 10:32:26 PM | | I dont know Jumbo Shrimp...I dont remember shooting anyone's mother when I was over there. I didnt kill any children either. Montreal Guy made a point of saying that we do not choose the mission. I will agree with you on one thing. Sometime's people like to use the word "freedom" as an excuse to trod out any BS agenda they can come up with. And yes there is alot of delusion. But there's no reason to slam on ayone over there or who has been over there. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/13/2007 11:04:23 AM | I am going to disagree. "poor brainless robot troops..." While, they are signing up to serve their country, they are also signing up to serve the wishes of our lovely government. Not everyone agrees with the mission but I will tell you this, those "brainless robots" are there doing a job that you wouldn't do. So I say that even though you don't agree with the "mission" whatever that is now, please do not insult the people who are there. I lost a very close friend in this just days ago who was merely 23 years old. Trying to make a difference in life, and walking in his father's footsteps. As a military family member, I do feel bitter about the people who mindlessly and heartlessly keep throwing these soldiers into battle without clarity for those of us who sit at home waiting for "that call". I understand your frustration. I am too. But don't make them out to be cattle. If you could talk to just one of the 20 year old kids over there "fighting" on behalf of Canada and the US, I'm sure that they would share with you their questions and fears.
A lot of innocent people are killed there every day on behalf of both sides of this "war". But I wouldn't be so quick to defend a country and civilization that straps bombs to their children and sends them out into the street. Not every place that's "invaded" is completely victim. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/13/2007 11:40:40 AM | There is a difference between supporting the troops-and supporting the people who sent them to war for their own agenda.
The troops are very brave-and deserve support-but that should not mean we are not allowed to criticise the reasons they were sent to war-or the leaders who sent them to die.
Otherwise "support the troops" or "be patriotic"-just become a convenient way of silencing criticism of foreign policy-and shutting down debate-as to criticise or debate the reasons for the Iraq War would be "unpatriotic" and not "supporting" the troops.
I support the troops-but not the reasons they were sent there-i supported the Sierra Leone and Bosnia interventions-i do not agree with the Iraq war though-as i have seen evidence that country is being plundered silently by big corporations while the news only talks about the civil war-billions of dollars of Iraqi national wealth are going missing-I am quite sure what the motivations for this particular "intervention"were-and i dont think humanitarion concern for the Iraqis under Saddam's rule-or concern over WMD's- had anyhting to do with it. | |
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| Support the Troops!
Posted: 4/13/2007 11:48:58 AM | What an awesome post. I do not support propaghanda. I support my troops with prayers, thoughts, and support for the families in my small military community.
I believe that these people have something that a lot of people don't. I know I couldn't walk out of my front door, away from the safety, love, and security of my family. I couldn't say good-bye to my son (possibly for the last time) for the greater good.
Hats off to the people who are trying to make a difference. | |
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| Support our Troops!!!
Posted: 4/13/2007 5:27:48 PM | YES, YES, YES.....
l agree with you 100%. People, Bush is a man who claims to be a Christian!! "Are you kidding me?". What would Jesus do? l prefer Osaka Bama myself. Pull them out gradually and kept abreast of what needs to happen. Bush has been doing the same thing over and over, getting the same results. There should not be a starving child in this country, nor a woman on the streets who is pregnant and homeless. What is going on? Think of the billions of dollars that are being spent on weapons of mass destruction slaughtering men, women, and children daily. You dig down in your gut and ask yourself "Would the fact that now they are selling and distributing pills for depression, trauma, and the daily effects of war be a sign that this is all good?".
lf you think that this world is in an upward swing, you're living under a rock. The Evanglists of the American Mind Set have given a man too much power. He claims to be a Christian. ChristFollower? lf Jesus were to come back now, where would he be? ln the places of the broken hearted. Todays lepers are those dying from HIV/AIDS. The homeless, poverty stricken, drug addicted, and children subjected to crimes of sexual immorality daily. THAT is the war we should be fighting. Get our troops home to the best country in the world. Canada. Bono of U2 uses his celebrity status to bring awareness to the world at large. He has the balls to say it like it is. Get to the core of the heart people, and love on others. l can assure you that the seige against lraq by the Americans will come back ten fold on them. Trust me, there are terrorists planning the next attack as Bush and his troops are focused on the war at hand. They better wake up!!
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