| Response to trancer32
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:13:53 AM | 1. HOW is this a "warning sign of intimacy problems." That's EXTREMELY presumptuous. I'm sorry that was your experience though, truly.
2. With regard to LJBF--I AGREE! Don't you want to marry a best friend? Seems to me, that's one way of making a marriage last. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:37:51 AM | If you wait for the right guy you could be going without for a very long time.
If you are that indifferent to sex then you would not suit many men.
I did that crap with a vicars daughter wanting to wait for marriage before sex.
But what happens if you get married and find you are not sexually compatible ?
You could get married and divorced quite a few times before finding the right sexual partner !!!!! | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:52:39 AM |
what do you think of dating a woman that has had plenty of fabulous sex in her life, but has since decided to wait for marriage with the right guy?
What is your definition of waiting? The big problem is that there is a spectrum that goes from nothing more than making out to everything *but* intercourse.
Personally, I don't see a big difference between oral sex and intercourse it terms of one is sex and one isn't. It wouldn't be a dealbreaker but it would be something I'd consider before getting serious. | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:57:45 AM | | Wow - some of the posts on here are disturbing to me. Why would it send up a red flag to have mead a personla decision not to continue having sex, but a religious reason is OK? The other thing I find disturbing is that you're either a virgin or you have to have sex with any new men, just because you ahev had sex in the past. Very weird way of looking at it, I think. | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/16/2007 5:24:42 PM |
Why would it send up a red flag to have mead a personla decision not to continue having sex, but a religious reason is OK?
I think both are respectable. Due to my non-religious nature, I actually prefer it when it's a personal decision rather than a religious one. The red flag isn't based on religion or personal decisions. It's based on that she's had sex in the past, and now she's cutting it off.
The other thing I find disturbing is that you're either a virgin or you have to have sex with any new men, just because you ahev had sex in the past.
The expectation of marriage is that you're in it for life. As a virgin, you're giving a special part of you to only that one man who is willing to give you the rest of his life. As a non-virgin, it's too late for that.
I don't believe anyone is saying that she should have sex with any new man that comes into her life. I personally feel that it is the best interest of any woman looking for a long term relationship to wait awhile before having sex. Instead, people are saying that marriage really shouldn't be the cutoff point anymore. She should decide when the time is right on an individual basis.
When she ties it to marriage, it sounds like one of two things is happening:
1) She's using sex to force a man to make a commitment. Instead, the commitment should come more naturally out a desire to be with her, not of the desire to have sex with her.
2) She doesn't trust herself to be able to properly judge men. Rather than learning from past experiences and trusting herself to judge a man, she's drawing a strict guideline in the sand to save herself from heartbreak. | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/16/2007 5:27:09 PM | | ..................whywhat if you dont get married.............what if he is no good and you havent tried before you buy dont you watch sex and the city | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 5:42:07 PM | I was close to gagging from trying to follow these threads..
I'm not surprised most men would run the other way. I'm not even shocked that some men would be personally affronted that you would sleep with some prior b/f but not with him.
I embraced the celebate lifestyle awhile ago. I too will wait until I'm married. WHY?
Because if I EVER get married, the last thing I want spinning thru my head is the memory of another man's kisses in MY marriage bed.
How flattering is that???
"Yes she slept with me before we got married ... Yes she had other men before me. HEY she occasionally she has memories of HIS kisses while I'm kissing her. "
yeppers...that's flattering. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 6:03:55 PM | I just wanted to clarify my earlier post. I never meant that this woman should sleep with every new guy. I was taking into account that the relationship had progressed to the point of trust and hopefully love. I would be putoff because sex is between two committed people is an expression of that love. If I express and meet your needs in every other waywhy not sex? It's not as if she hasn't done it. Maybe I'm wrong....
But obviously a the guys you've been with before didn't do it for you. If I (figuratively again) do it for you in other ways, why not sexually(or atleast an attempt at meeting those needs.
 ) | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 6:07:24 PM | I know that this is ask a guy, but I too felt compelled to comment on this topic.
I have been celebate for almost 3 years, not because I dont want to have sex or that I no longer desire sex, but becasue I have learned to value myself as more than a sexual object.
I dont believe that I would save myself for marriage, as I dont know that I will ever be married again and truly am not ready to give up a sex life indefinately. However, I do fell that I want to wait until I do find the right person who is looking for more than just sex. It is a special bond and should be shared as such.
OP - Your own self-worth is what determines when and if you are ready to move a relationship to a sexual level. | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/16/2007 6:10:39 PM | Alright...let me get this straight...
so you've already been around the block many times over...and now you decide to save yourself for your soulmate?
What exactly are you saving?
The whole point of virigins saving themselves is that they are free and innocent of any/all partners and saved themself only for the one they truly love...
you on the other hand had your fill of sex and now decide its to save yourself...save yourself for what exactly? | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/16/2007 6:14:52 PM | Back to OP I think she is using it as a test
of men's loyalty and has issues with sex
using it as a way to seduce men pretending to be revirginalised | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:07:51 PM | There are guys out there that are just as willing to wait for marriage albeit few and far between but I just happen to know of one. However in this case it is for religious reasons. My friend has not been with anyone for 3 years and he regrets now that he did have sex out of wedlock. For most people it seems important to test the waters before you jump in. I don't fully understand that myself because I don't know what is good and what isn't. I also don't know anyone that has waited for marriage. I technically still can be one of them though. I don't know if I really want that but I never have pictured myself getting married. A lot of people have done it out of circumstance.
However my friend is one of the guys willing to wait and I believe him. I still don't know about myself though. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:13:00 PM | It depends on the woman I guess. I WILL NOT be with a woman who cannot have an orgasm. So if we were dating, and you said to me, "I can have an orgasm just looking at you" then ya, I could handle waiting. But you'd better be honest about it.
I guess the best thing to do would be to make sure the sex is good, THEN wrap it up for Christmas. I could definitely live with that. | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:38:36 PM | Ren83: In re: to your assertions....
When she ties it to marriage, it sounds like one of two things is happening:
1) She's using sex to force a man to make a commitment. Instead, the commitment should come more naturally out a desire to be with her, not of the desire to have sex with her.
2) She doesn't trust herself to be able to properly judge men. Rather than learning from past experiences and trusting herself to judge a man, she's drawing a strict guideline in the sand to save herself from heartbreak.
Firstly, this isn't about blackmail or having painful experiences in the past. It is about mutual respect and a decision between two people to abstain. This is not a one-sided deal. A lot of the postings here are insinuating that she is withholding sex as a punishment of previous boyfriends. It wouldn't be that way b/c it would obviously be a decision on his part early on to decide if this is something that he would feel good about doing for their relationship. Having sex is easy. The emotions and disappointment of having premature sex with someone are a bit more complex. I realize that men are very black and white on this issue. But there are men that find it to be a very attractive quality when a woman can exercise her own self-control. It also comes down to a matter of faith. Not necessarily religious faith, but faith in the relationship that it will endure and discovering each other on another level would be exciting. I realize that men are very black and white on this issue. Most men can separate the deed from the emotion. As can some women. To me, that issue in itself would indicate intimacy problems. The fact that this woman is secure in herself enough to know that she is worth the wait I think says a lot about her character and healthy desire for a satisfying sex life. Virgin or not...if there are ways to increase overall fulfillment and satisfaction in the long-term, why not? | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:47:29 PM | Back to OP I think she is using it as a test
of men's loyalty and has issues with sex
using it as a way to seduce men pretending to be revirginalised
Whatever.
Like I said....its a conscious decision on both parts. There is no hypnotic revirginization happening. There are no sexual issues whatsoever....its more about finding a withstanding love, not having shallow sex in the short-term.
Isn't delayed gratification a sign of maturity?! | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 9:32:25 PM |
I embraced the celebate lifestyle awhile ago. I too will wait until I'm married. WHY?
Because if I EVER get married, the last thing I want spinning thru my head is the memory of another man's kisses in MY marriage bed.
If you've already had sex then those memories of other guys will always be there... it's a little too late for that if this is your reason for becoming celibate. And if you aren't even kissing another guy then I think you'd have a hard time finding a guy. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 10:14:02 PM | I would respect that. I think a lot of guys would. At least the quality ones would.
Regarding the car/test drive deal...
"First of all, how long does anyone actual keep a car? 5 years, 10 years max? Is that how long you want your love to last? If so, then maybe the test-drive-your-mate idea will keep you together for a handful of years. But relationships aren't about sex; they are about intimacy. That's part of our problem. We have it backwards. Many of us are only wading in the shallow end of the intimacy pool by having sex--we haven't swam out into the deep end and shared our hearts, dreams, goals, and hopes. It is easy to undress your body, but it is much, much more difficult to undress your heart. And when you focus on getting in the sack, it takes the focus off the more important issues.
Are there steps that should be taken in a dating relationship to help you discover if that nice smelling guy is Mr. Right? Absolutely! But living together and sleeping together aren't the right ones. Did you know that couples who live together before marriage have three times the divorce rate of couples who do not? And couples who have had multiple sexual partners before marriage are more likely to cheat during marriage? Even if you disagree with my argument from a faith or morality perspective, it is just bad math to sleep together before tying the knot! Make Einstein proud--take the odds!"
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=58043955&blogID=173514109
Besides people these days are more promiscuous than ever yet the divorce rate keeps going up. If it was all about a "test drive" nobody would ever get divorced.
Here's one more link with some revelence.
http://www.pureloveclub.com/chastity/index.php?id=7&entryid=84
"Finally, since you may not have the gift of your virginity left to give him, here is a suggestion. A friend of mine lost her virginity during high school at the age of 15. Instead of giving in to despair that she would have nothing left to give her future husband, she came up with a beautiful idea. She went to prayer, made a commitment to reclaim her purity, and wrote a letter of encouragement to herself to stay firm in this resolve. She listed all the reasons she would no longer lead a sexually promiscuous life." | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/16/2007 11:01:57 PM | jannick06 wrote "..................whywhat if you dont get married"
Huh?
".............what if he is no good and you havent tried before you buy"
So, somehow you equate sex with "buying" something. REEEEEEALLLYY Interesting!
" dont you watch sex and the city"
I've seen it a few times--it makes me sad, especially if there are people out there who really think this way. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 11:27:28 PM | It's been pointed out many times that you aren't exactly saving yourself for anyone, that time passed long ago. You can't take it back no matter how long you stay celebate. The strongest argument I've seen towards this idea is the idea of not wanting to remember past partners. It is true that memories fade, but you'll always have memories.. 2 years or 10 years, it doesn't matter. To me, the idea of saving yourself as a non-virgin is complete bunk.
In some cases, it can be intimacy issues that would make a woman decide to wait. I don't see your situation as an intimacy problem as has been suggested. I'll claim bunk on that idea.
As for the idea that you're growing up and trying to be more mature, that's the big issue.
Giving up something now for something greater in the future is a sign of intelligence and maturity. Delayed gratification in this way is mature. Giving up something now for the sake of believing you're being mature is neither intelligent nor mature. Delayed gratification in this way is immature.
What "something greater" are you gaining by waiting until marriage? Is it the marriage itself? Marriage itself isn't much more than a piece of paper and some financial responsibility. It's the feelings that are supposed to go along with the marriage that make it special. Witholding sex to gain marriage is asking for a shaky marriage based on a physical desire rather than a true emotional connection. To withhold sex to gain marriage seems like game-playing or manipulation or blackmail. Not a good reason.
For now, set aside the idea that you could get married and then quickly divorced... though that could be very painful. Are you gaining a "lack of hurt" by waiting until marriage? In this case, the issue isn't waiting until you get married, the issue is waiting until you're with someone that you won't regret having sex with. The idea of using marriage as the cutoff shows an inability to trust yourself (immaturity). Like, let's say a woman had sex with some jerks in the past and she's been hurt by it. She no longer trusts her own decisions to have sex with men because she was fooled by the jerks in the past. So, rather than trusting her own ability to judge a man, she's drawing the line at marriage and figures that any man who would marry her must be in it for the long run. It's a bandaid to cover up the problem rather than a solution to the problem. It's not a sign of maturity, but may work out okay anyways.
Withholding sex isn't some magic ticket to finding a good relationship. If you don't truly believe in waiting till marriage in your heart, you won't stick to it anyways, and guys know it. Read Nos800's post. Read it very very carefully. If you tell a man you're not a virgin, but waiting till marriage, you've created a winnable challenge for him. He's going to do whatever he can to win the game. Once he does get it... bye bye. Don't set up that challenge thinking it's the magic ticket. You'll only get hurt.
There is only one reason that I would say is a good reason for doing what you're doing. Do it because you believe in it. Do it because you truly think that people should wait and it's the right thing to do. If you do it for this reason, you will gain positive feelings towards yourself. Do not do it because you want to be seen as mature. Do not do it to try to protect yourself from jerks. Do not do it because you think it's the magic ticket to a lasting relationship. Do it because it's what you want to do.
Despite rumors to the contrary, men can be very perceptive especially when it comes to weaknesses. We're natural hunters and like any other hunter, we can pick out the easy targets in the herd. In this case, we're reading with reverse psychology. We see a profile that says, "no jerks, liars, or players" and we sense a weak woman who can't differentiate the players from the genuine guys. Jerks, liars, and players (hunter types) pounce on these women. The genuine guys (lovers) stay away from these emotional train-wrecks. If waiting till marriage isn't something you truly believe in, the hunters are going to sense that weakness and pounce. The lovers are going to avoid you. Reading what you have written, my hunter instincts are kicking in, not my lover instincts. For your sake, it worries me.
So, take a real good look at your reasons for making this decision in your life. If it's because you truly believe that people should wait. Then that's your choice and you will be given respect for it. If you're doing it for any other reason, you will not be given respect for it. Your true intentions are very important in this matter and they will rule everything. Only you can know your true intentions. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/16/2007 11:33:05 PM | | I dont see anything worng with what you want to do. Waiting is fine by me. I have, for the most part, taken myself off the market for the time being. I know that one day I will find the right person, but until then I have my memories to keep me happy. (not in the self help way, but I think you understand) | |
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| Same exact boat here
Posted: 7/17/2007 12:18:43 AM | msg 40
its more about finding a withstanding love, not having shallow sex in the short-term.
This is the issue in and of itself. This is why a lot of guys are saying "I couldn't handle the girl wanting to wait till marriage."
It's not that guys can't respect your decision to wait till marriage for sex, but rather the reasoning behind it. Your thoughts on remaining abstinant until you find the "right guy" isn't borne out of a desire to be pure or whatever. It's completely based off the fact that you've banged other guys shortly after meeting them, only to find out that they were using you. Since you don't want that to happen again, you're putting up this "marriage only" barrier, believing that this extreme action is what will fix your problem.
The reality, however, is that this barrier is more likely to create more problems than it fixes. Since sexual tensions tend to conflict with, and confuse, emotions it's very likely that keeping this firm line will result in marrying somebody that only remained nice to get in your pants (or perhaps were too confused to distinguish hormones from true emotions).
Sex is something that should be shared when an individual feels ready, after testing the relationship and finding that it holds strong through trials and difficulties. Waiting to make sure that the guy truly cares about you is one thing. Holding out until they make a life long commitment to you is a completely different thing, especially since I don't think that most guys even think in terms of marriage until they've really gotten to know you. | |
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| ????
Posted: 7/17/2007 1:45:17 AM |
its more about finding a withstanding love, not having shallow sex in the short-term
How about DEEP sex in the MEDIUM term? | |
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