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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 9:01:13 AM | | Why is it "saving" yourself though? I mean, don't women have a right to want and enjoy sex without being married? What's wrong with forming a close bond with someone and enjoying a gratifying sexual act without being married? What are you "saving"? You already had sex. The poster saying that it's to be sure that a man won't dump her seems odd to me. It's like holding the sex as a power tool to get the marriage. I'm all for waiting if that's what you want to do but if the reason is to avoid being dumped or to get married - it seems off to me. I don't feel that I'm "ruining" or defiling myself when I choose to have consensual sex with a man. He's not the only one getting something out of it. If a guy told me he was "saving" himself even though he'd already had sex - I'd give it a pass. How can the relationship go anywhere when there's a timeclock on the intimacy? If I had to get married in order to have sex, then there would be too much pressure. Anyway, everyone should do as they please with their own bodies, so sounds good - good luck with that. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 9:18:14 AM |
And then there are some that would be open to having an emotional bond before a physical one. And happy and thankful that he's found such a woman to love him like nothing before him mattered in the least. AND have the best sex of his life. How lucky for him!!!
OP. You are painting a rosy picture. In reality, we (me and my friends) have concluded that the born again "virgin" almost always were the raining town ho before having her personal revolution. So to answer your original question…..no absolutely not. I would not consider dating the born again virgin mainly because of her likely past. Besides, why would a man buy a car without taking it for a test drive? But I would respect her decision. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 9:37:12 AM | | OP, while I respect your decision, I would not enter into such a relationship. I think sexual intimacy is an important component of any relationship, thus, it would be important to insure sexual compatibility prior to making a commitment to marriage. Personally, I would be more open-minded if you simply choose not to have sex in the first three months of any new relationship. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 9:53:13 AM |
You also are saying "i will give you this, as long as you give me this"
go figure thats the same thing that woman on the street corner said to me you know the one with the short skirt and high heels I didnt take her up on it either (' ') | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 12:34:35 PM | OP, read what you wrote in your original post:
Hey guys....what do you think of dating a woman that has had plenty of fabulous sex in her life, but has since decided to wait for marriage with the right guy? Not that the woman will waver in her decision, but how would men deal with this issue? Just curious!
1) You had fabulous sex with other men. Not: we're going to have fabulous sex together.
2) You have decided to wait for marriage. Not: if I meet the right guy, and he wants to marry me, I will do it for both of us.
This says that you ate your figurative cake (sex) before you met me, and now you want to have it (marriage). You are talking about what you want. But you are in no way talking about what I am getting out of it.
Now look at what you wrote later:
I suppose the consensus is that most men would not go for it and think this woman is a so-called game player.And that's cool if he wouldn't go there....there are lots of women that will have plenty of superficial sex with them. Dime a dozen. Visits to the clinic. Drunk dialing and stalkers abound. How awesome for them! 3) Men would think this woman is a so-called game player. Not: men would consider the possibility I am a game player.
4) That's cool if he wouldn't go there. Not: I respect his decision.
5) There are lots of women that will have plenty of superficial sex with them. Not: There are lots of women that will be happy to enjoy a loving and fulfilling relationship with them.
6) Dime a dozen. Not: Plenty of women you want and who want you.
7) Visits to the clinic. Not: No more STDs.
8) Drunk dialing and stalkers abound. Not: Plenty of beautiful, intelligent, sweet women to go around.
9) How awesome for them! Not: I hope you find what you are looking for.
Now, you are implying that all men who are not open to what you want can't even get superficial sex, and that all we'll get from it anyway, is STDs, drunks, and stalkers. You're calling all women who are open to sex w/out marriage, with or w/out a relationship, as having STDs, drunks, and stalkers. But you did that. You said you're not a virgin. So you're implying that you too once had STDs, or were a drunk, or were a stalker.
And then you wrote:
And then there are some that would be open to having an emotional bond before a physical one. And happy and thankful that he's found such a woman to love him like nothing before him mattered in the least. AND have the best sex of his life. How lucky for him!!!
10) And then there are some that would be open to having an emotional bond before a physical one. Not: And then there are some that would be open to having a lifetime commitment before sex, that would allow me to open up and develop a truly awesome emotional connection with them, and encourage me to make them devastatingly happy for the rest of our lives.
11) And happy and thankful that he's found such a woman to love him like nothing before him mattered in the least. Not: And happy and thankful that he's found a woman to love him like no woman before her mattered in the least.
12) AND have the best sex of his life. Not: AND make love at least twice a day with a woman who knows how to make a man have the best sex of his life.
13) How lucky for him!!! At least you got that right.
You're implying that you're the best he'll ever have. That's not confident. That's downright arrogant, unless you can back it up. Before I'd believe that I'd have the best time of my life with someone, or that I'd have sex of my life with her, I'd have to meet their former partners, and compare notes.
Your posts are about what you are getting.
They also imply that any man would be lucky to have you, w/out anything to back it up.
They also imply that any man would isn't with you, and is with anyone else, is automatically better off alone.
You might be a wonderful woman, but with an attitude like is selfish, arrogant, and superior, I really and honestly believe that I would never see that wonderful woman. Ever. Even after the divorce.
OP, I've met women like you. I don't date them. I see how they treat other men instead, and it is awful for them.
If you were practical, reasonable, and thinking of your potential mates, your question would be this:
What do you think of dating a woman that has made plenty of mistakes with immature men in her life and has learned the value of a good man, and so has decided to wait for a lifetime relationship with the right guy, and since she only wants to spend the rest of her life with him, and do everything she can to make him happy, she believes that the best way to do that is to show him that she is truly committed, by getting married to him? How would you prefer her to explain her POV, and how would you want her to show she means what she says, w/out resorting to having sex before you and she are truly in love, and wanting to express that love through the lifetime commitment of marriage? Just curious!
Here are the two big problem that so many guys keep trying to point out.
1)You are equating pre-marital sex to irresponsible sex.
2) You are equating marriage to having an emotional bond. Good post, Ren83.
2 points:
1) Since you have said you've had pre-marital sex, you have been irresponsible. Where is the evidence for change and for responsible behaviour? You've never said you have had yourself checked for STDs and are clean, or have good genetics and no deformities in your family, so you would be good for kids. You've not said you're thrifty, clean, tidy, a good house-mate, a good cook, good with kids, or anything else that says that you're responsible enough to live with someone and have kids.
2) Since you've said that you are equating marriage to having an emotional bond, that means you've had sex w/out an emotional bond. So why are you going to change now? You've never said you've even been in love.
I've got a sister who has been where you want to go. I warned her how to go about it. She didn't listen. Why should you? Especially since you are displaying the same temperamental behaviour.
There are women twice your age, who actually display qualities for marriage, and women much younger than you. They might not be available, but at least they have the right attitude.
Go back to the forums and read other women's posts. When you display a fair and reasonable attitude to marriage and relationships, then get married. Till then, you're a disaster waiting to happen. I don't want your future bliss to become an unmitigated disaster, do you?
A well-wisher. Lol | |
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eman07
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Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 81 | |
| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 1:22:45 PM |
it's because I really, really want that part to be very special.
again, im trying to catch on to the logic.....why can it only be special when your married?......another person that equats marriage, to sex bieng special
I mean wondering if he's going to drop me because I'm too loud, or too anything really, or drop me because he finally scored and can now move on
so you would rather wait till your married, on the wedding night for him to MAYBE find out your too loud, or too anything?...plus....people get married and divorced so fast these days...its kinda sad actually...but with that said...dont you think he can divorce just as quick?
I know that if I've made out with a man, spent time with him and felt how he caresses me, witnessed how he acts when I tell him what I do and don't like, and trust that he is open to different things in other aspects of life, that the sex will be amazing.
again....i have read this argument of "i know it will be good...because of this or that"....
again...huge assumption...you dont know if it will be good or bad....
i mean jeez....lets say you get married and found out the guy lasts about one minute EVERY TIME.....call me crazy...but i dont think "love" cures a "2 pump chump"
I do feel that certain things should be discussed though, like how often you each want to have sex, what kinds of things you like to do, etc. That kind of lead up can make wedding night sex incredible.
so basically your gonna ask the guy what he likes?....ok that is funny..."uh...you know...the usuall....doggy style...you on top...as long as i get mine"....ok....im making it up a little bit.....
BUT...do you honestly think a guy is gonna tell you anything different?....any guy before sex is gonna tell you the things you WANT to hear. I have yet to meet a guy who tells me he is horrible in bed...and that every women wasnt satisfied.....
again, to each his own. I just dont understand the logic of "if we wait to sign a piece of paper, have "marriage" by our name...then the sex will be awsome!!!"....the sex is gonna be good, or bad, or just normal whether you get married, stay together 10 years w/o marrying.....or just have sex for three months | |
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| Amen!
Posted: 7/18/2007 4:38:38 PM | | Yes! It's true! | |
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| On Scoring!
Posted: 7/18/2007 4:49:04 PM | I mean wondering if he's going to drop me because I'm too loud, or too anything really, or drop me because he finally scored and can now move on
OMG, the perennial fear of some women that a man, or most men, will "score and move on". Very few "score and move on". They may not stay forever, but we men are not "hit and run", we will stay until the passion is gone, but that may take 1 night (unlikely) or 75 years! One has to take the chance, else it is not Eros it is "let's make a deal" (as previous posters alluded). | |
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| On Scoring!
Posted: 7/18/2007 6:05:53 PM | | Someone else brought this up on another forum. Is it just penis/vagina sex that is off the table, or is it all oral, anal, handjobs, etc as well? | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 9:12:53 PM | I have not slept with many women. Most of the women (not many) I slept with I didn't feel they were just a number. I was with them, they were with me, they were being generous and I was being generous. We were sharing moments together. You can have a disappointing relationship even if you save yourself. I think you are romanticizing some distant past where things seemed more stable. I personally don't mind dating a woman who wants to wait before having sex or waiting until we get married. If I really connect with her then I am completely fine with it. However, I think so many guys would find it unacceptable in the year 2007.
Times have changed. Some might think you are religious. Anyway, if the guy is the guy for you and you are dating him for a very long time say 9 months what difference does it make if you wait until you have the ring. Don't get me wrong I do respect the idea of not having sex before marriage, fidelity, loyalty and old fashioned values.
I wouldn't mind marrying a virgin, someone pure, someone old fashioned but not necessarily some Evangelical Christian. You can have sex with anyone, but having a great relationship can't be had by just anyone. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 9:27:52 PM | OP opines:
..most men would not go for it and think this woman is a so-called game player. And that's cool if he wouldn't go there....there are lots of women that will have plenty of superficial sex with them. Dime a dozen. Visits to the clinic. Drunk dialing and stalkers abound. How awesome for them!
...then there are some that would be open to having an emotional bond before a physical one. And happy and thankful that he's found such a woman to love him like nothing before...
Ew. You marginalize some very good opinions you just don't happen to agree with, and deify your own in order to make a false comparison. Ew. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 10:01:36 PM | I wouldn't continue to date her once she made clear she wouldn't have sex prior to marriage. For me, waiting until marriage to learn whether you're sexually compatible is unreasonable.
Sex isn't the the main point of a romantic relationship for me, but it is an *important* one. And I'm not willing to risk a marriage with an unfulfilling sex life. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/18/2007 10:54:44 PM | I've been really long winded on this topic, let me try to simplify it down to the main point.
OP, what I see from every post you've made is a desire to be rewarded for withholding sex until marriage. I am not reading anywhere where you really talk about withholding sex as the reward itself. It's this philosophical difference that I am most against.
I see someone who is saying, "look at me, I'm withholding sex, give me a prize". That prize might be the marriage itself. The prize may be avoiding jerks, STDs, stalkers, etc. However, I think you're really looking for respect. Unfortunately, you're making it obvious that you don't respect yourself from the very questions you're asking. You're looking for approval. You're seeing if this bandaid would cover up your own self-respect issues and force men to respect you.
It won't. Your issues are bleeding through. I don't think too many men here actually believe you'd follow through with it. They know that all they have to do is dangle a prize in front of you, and you'd jump. Mostly, players-types will make themselves out to be the prize, and you'll end up trading in your self-respect to try to catch them. I'm sure it's happened plenty of times before.
If you truly believed in withholding sex until marriage, I could respect it, accept it, and be with you. I would even being willing to take the risk of not being initially great together sexually if you were the type who would be willing to work at it. I believe those issues can be worked out. However, if this was the philosophy you truly had, you'd be asking different questions and making different comments. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/19/2007 12:57:03 AM |
People are making too big an issue of the compatibility issue. If you are married to the right person then you both will make an effort to satisfy each other.
*BUZZER* Wrong.
I happen to have an ass fetish. What if i waited until i married the girl, only to find out that due to being raped in her past, anybody touching her ass puts her into a panic attack?
What if you wait until marriage, only to find out that the one you marry absolutely refuses to do what you enjoy the most? Whether that be oral, or 69, or a certain position... whether it be because of bad past experiences that freak them out, or an inability to wrap their minds around the act to get pleasure out of it? Or maybe your partner is unable to orgasm, and doesn't really enjoy sex all that much?
Sure, you can deal with it at first. You may even be willing to say that it isn't important. But what happens after 6 months? A year? Five years, being rejected night after night? How miserable are you going to be?
Minimize it all you want, but sexual compatibility IS important. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/19/2007 6:16:07 AM | seavoyage ?
<div class="quote">someone pure, someone old fashioned but not necessarily some Evangelical Christian.
please define Evangelical Christian for me .... I see this on here a lot and feel that maybe unintentionally you are stereotyping there are a lot of people in this world that define themselves as Evangelical Christians but are not in your face with it as some people are ...if its these people you are referring to i would argue that they are the minority in this group albeit they make the most noise ... again i would argue that they are not the true Evangelical Christians and for the majority of those who profess to be Evangelical Christians well i admire their faith and applaud them ... i know many of them and they are simple carring and considerate people .. but like in any group some believe that they have to push their beliefs on other people they are showboats and not the real thing..
what these people have yet to learn is that you can lead someone to Christ or or other things but you cannot drag anyone to anything and even if you do they will not stay | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/19/2007 9:29:50 AM | So you are in a promising relationship with the man of your dreams, and he respects your wish of no sex, until you two are married. What do the two of you do in the mean time??? Do you hold hands, and gaze at each other's eyes, whenever you two are together?? What do you talk about??? Is the big conversation under the full moon, or at the table with the candles lit? I think your conversation will always come back to this" big promised day" of marriage that you want. It might work for you- sounds to me though, it would take too much mental energy to enforce!!!! I am more interested in why you want marriage so bad, in the first place. It really isn't the reward that you think it is anymore !!- i.e. He gets his sex, and you get a baby, and a can- opener, and baked on grease!!!!!!!- it would be fun to hear from you after your married, and three babies later........you might even fantasize about that certain guy that you could of, should of , but somehow let him go........for your prince charming. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/19/2007 11:55:48 AM |
Hey guys....what do you think of dating a woman that has had plenty of fabulous sex in her life, but has since decided to wait for marriage with the right guy? Not that the woman will waver in her decision, but how would men deal with this issue? Just curious!
I guess I could deal with it... I wonder though, if ultimately that would push the couple towards marriage faster? I bet there would be a lot of guys that otherwise, might be very good with you, that would pass though.
Still... its your life and nothing wrong with living it your way. :) | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/19/2007 1:06:14 PM |
So, I think that if the makeout sessions are hot, and the fooling around part is hot, then the sex will be too.
um. What do you mean by 'makeout' and 'fooling around'?
I don't want to "makeout" or "fool around" with a woman unless it leads to something more.
I certainly don't want to spend months or years "getting to know" someone and going home with a painful erection every night, so that I can masturbate to fantasies of what our wedding night might be like.
Don't rub against me in a sexually suggestive way if you don't want sex. It doesn't have to be intercourse. Your hand or mouth will suit me just fine. But stay away from my genitals if you don't want something sexual to occur.
(If oral, anal and mutual masturbation count as "fooling around" then I *MIGHT* be willing to wait for marriage for the "sex".) | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/19/2007 3:54:36 PM | It kind of makes me sad that so many of you guys are so against this. What if I were to say that, even if I loved a man and we had lots in common and it was just wonderful, but the sex was not the greatest the first time we did it, or even the second, then I'm done???
Orrrrr, Everything is great between us, we are in love and have great conversations, etc, but his penis is just not long enough, thick enough, etc. then well, I'm done.
If I am in love, and the sex isn't perfect or mind blowing, then there's plenty of time to work on it.
As for the "ass guy" ...how awful for you to write what you wrote about finding out a girl was anally raped and doesn't want that. Is it all about the sex? Why? There's so much more to a person, and a relationship than that.
So, I guess I won't be dating any of the guys who are against that, and that's fine. We're all entitled to our own opinions and choices. But please don't pick apart my sentences and try to put a different meaning onto them. They mean what they read. That's all. No hidden meaning, no hidden agenda, no man trapping, no putting my vagina on the table while I wait for a ring. I just don't want to have sex until I'm in a fully committed relationship. I'm sure that SOMEONE out there would be willing to wait with me, but if not, well, that's ok too. I'm ok with that...I have plenty of other things to keep me busy | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/19/2007 4:45:41 PM |
Scorpiomover you have wayyyy too much time on your hands I just write the way I talk. Some posts, I put one-liners. Some posts, I put pages. Check my history, if you don't believe me.
You have to understand as well, I would happily welcome such a woman. But having a sister who has done EXACTLY what the OP wants to do, I can see the results. Not so good.
I also have a few friends who chose NOT to have the fabulous sex and do what the OP wants to do. They have very happy and fulfilled marriages.
I know ONE girl who did what the OP wants to do. But waited a few years, met someone, started a relationship, and it ended in marriage.
It takes a few years. Not to find a guy, but to get the garbage out of your head and realise the truth of love. Love is NOT sex. Love is NOT marriage. Love is love.
Marriage follows love.
Marriage follows first-time sex.
Marriage does NOT follow second-time sex.
P.S. If you're really a Christian, join a Christian dating site. You'll find more compatible people there.
Just my $0.02 | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/19/2007 7:08:51 PM | The thought of being in a relationship with her talking about the "fabulous sex" she's had with Bob & Rob while she's 'changed' while going out with me? Ha! :) I actually dated a girl in college for a year who was (and still is) a virgin. We got to 3rd base frequently, but never went that extra step -- although her abnormal tightness made it more understandable. Using a tampon for her would be like using an oversized cucumber all day for a normal gal. And I'm not exaggerating. Too much information? Actually, no. She wasn't restricting herself or putting down some self-applied rule. It was the sheer thought of pain about it which restricted her. So let's say she was normal "down there", and it was a self-applied rule.
Could I be in that situation again like that? No. Could alot of guys? No. Would a decent amount of guys say they would or believe/want to think they would, if you were a bit out of their league? Yes.
I would say that the self-applied rule ITSELF would be a red flag about her. It's different than her physical methodology of "going slow". It's a concrete, self-applied rule that raises questions. Sexual activities and lust should be a part of a healthy, established relationship. I could see holding off sex until seeing the person as "marriage material" otherwise after the relationship has gone on for a while. But to expect an established relationship to flourish by seeing sex before marriage as the same level of drug use -- that's weird.
Hold yourself off from sex until you're meshing lives and mutually convinced that you're both marriage material. That'll still lack opportunities for ya (it's biological, sorry -- yes, even in the 50s), but holding things off until marriage is affecting the natural flow of relations that go beyond building sexual tension for a more proper time -- it serves no benefit. | |
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| No virgin....but saving self for marriage now....
Posted: 7/20/2007 4:57:54 AM |
I happen to have an ass fetish. What if i waited until i married the girl, only to find out that due to being raped in her past, anybody touching her ass puts her into a panic attack?
The problem here is that you're thinking about yourself. If you loved your wife you would want what's best for her and be willing to work around this issue.
What if you wait until marriage, only to find out that the one you marry absolutely refuses to do what you enjoy the most? Whether that be oral, or 69, or a certain position... whether it be because of bad past experiences that freak them out, or an inability to wrap their minds around the act to get pleasure out of it? Or maybe your partner is unable to orgasm, and doesn't really enjoy sex all that much?
Minimize it all you want, but sexual compatibility IS important.
You should talk to your wife and find out what the deal is. Try to reach some sort of compromise. Even if she doesn't enjoy sex she should be willing to do it because it's something that you enjoy. Marriage should be about both people selflessly doing everything they can to meet the needs of the other person. Selfishness by either partner is the main problem, the compatibility think is just a symptom of that selfishness. | |
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