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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 5/28/2008 12:40:06 PM | Barcelona vs Real Madrid.
Rangers vs Celtic.
those two rivalries are the greatest and strongest in the world. behind them you have Manchester United vs Liverpool, Arsenal vs Tottenham, etcccccccccccccc
sorry guys, but those north american rivalries are a joke if compared to football's.
by the way, i am not bashing anything | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 5/28/2008 6:36:39 PM |
Packers/Bears won't be as strong as it was in the past now that Favre has retired....
My friend, Packers/Bears was strong long before Favre was even born! From Wikipedia:
>>The Bears-Packers rivalry is a sports rivalry between two of the NFL's most storied and successful franchises, the Chicago Bears and the Green Bay Packers. The two clubs have won a combined 21 NFL Championships (including 4 Super Bowls) and have 48 members in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
The rivalry began on Sunday, November 27, 1921 in Chicago, when the Packers lost to the then-Chicago Staleys 20-0 in front of 7,000 fans; and has grown to be the league's longest rivalry with 175 regular season and post season matches.
As of 2006, the Bears and Packers are the NFL's two most storied and successful franchises. The two clubs have won a combined 21 championships in the league's 87 year history.<<
No matter is BOTH teams are contending for a run at the playoffs; or neither are; or one is, while the other is just trying to survive the season-Packers vs Bears will always be heated, passionate, and relevant. | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 5/28/2008 6:47:03 PM |
sorry guys, but those north american rivalries are a joke if compared to football's.
by the way, i am not bashing anything
Pedro, when you refer to something that someone else feels is important as "a joke," then yes, you ARE bashing something-specifically because your opinion that said thing is "a joke" is nothing more than that-your opinion; and unless you're next going to claim some empirical authority on what constitutes anything, you pretty much come off looking like little more than a snob.
At least have the testes to admit that you think your European soccer stuff is just plain better than our North American sports, and admit that you ARE bashing us. You're entitled to your opinion-just have the cojones to take the heat, instead of sniveling around it by whining, "Oh, but I'm not bashing anything..." What would you call it then-praising?
Grow a pair, already. | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 5/29/2008 1:19:35 PM |
i am not bashing anything. only that European rivalries are the greatest and strongest because of the political and religious matters involved in football, that is all friend So, you are implying that 1)because North Americans dont mix politics and religion in with their sports, that we can't possibly be passionate? If anything, that may make us more passionate: because our sports rivalries aren't connected to anything extraneous, we are capable of co-existing peacefully with each other until game day...I don't HAVE to hate the Dallas Cowboys because they're from politically conservative Texas, while I'm from progressive Wisconsin; I can just hate 'em because they have a billionaire blowhard owner, while the Packers are community owned-and the two were bitter rivals for conference supremacy in the '90s, and were again last season.
Maybe you're not "bashing" after all-you're BAITING!! Either way, it's a matter of semantics; the bottom line is you continue to act the part of "Eurosnob" while denying that you are...my original challenge still stands: quit trying to hide your words behind qualifiers; i.e, GROW A PAIR, ALREADY! | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 5/31/2008 4:27:57 AM | yes political and religious matters involved in football makes it have the greatest and strongest rivalries.
of course you may hate the Cowboys because they have a billionaire blowhard owner as you say (are you kidding me?) but it is ridiculous and silly to compare it to religious or political rivalries where a lot of real hate and despise is involved.
again i am not bashing anything
as for the guy slagging the Scottish league off, well it may be, but Celtics vs Rangers is the oldest sporting rivalry in the world! | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 5/31/2008 6:45:30 AM | | I haven't read all of Pedro's posts, so if I'm off base here, my apologies in advance. I think what he might be trying to say is that there's a different kind of rivalry between some European teams. I mean, being at a Yankees, Red Sox game...of course there's no denying that the rivalry is about as intense as it gets. However, something like the Old Firm matches (Celtic versus Rangers)...it's something different entirely. These are ethnic, cultural and political conflicts projected onto a staged, figurative battlefield for a time. In many ways, some of the rivalries in US sports are far healthier, in my opinion, because, for the most part, they are about the game/sport. However, sometimes the intensity might be a little less...not always, but sometimes. And there is genuine hatred, racism, ethnic and political conflict in some of European soccer's biggest rivalries and the hatred involved is chilling to be perfectly honest...I'm not so sure that it makes the rivalry better at all...certainly different though... | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 5/31/2008 8:08:55 AM | Just to add maybe a little bit of a twist on what Pedro was saying in terms of how the rivalries were formed.....
Manchester United & Liverpool have a fierce rivalry that has existed for coming up to a century now & the disdain that each of these sets of fans feel for each other comes from the background of the shipworkers for both areas.
Liverpool was...until the building of the Manchester ship canal famed for its port & pretty much most of the worlds commerce came through the city & the city thrived & prospered as a result. The canal was formed & most of that disappeared & Liverpool as a city has never fully recovered since...although it is on its way back now.
Now bear in mind most of the football fans at the time when this first happened were the working class & football was the meeting point for most of the working class men at that time then the rivalry was turned up quite a few notches by these events.
So......in closing.....a rivalry that has affected generations & the link being football.
I would agree in part by saying that most american sports possibly don't have the same kind of historical rivalries attached to them but the reason I would say that is because the sports teams over in the US are franchise opportunities & are pretty much changeable. That said one man's love for his sport & team cannot be questioned & I've no doubt Lakers v Celtics means just as much to the people involved. | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:36:21 AM | thank you Kirk, that is exactly what i meant my command of English is not perfect. i would give half of my life to speak as the Queen of England does
the Old Firm is the oldest rivalry, and the strongest together with Barcelona vs Real Madrid at Camp Nou Stadium. everyone remembers some years ago when Figo was about to kick a corner lick and some spectator threw a pig's head to him (Barcelona supporters really hated him after having moved to Real Madrid).
i am not saying that there not rivalries in North America, only that you can not compare them to ours in many ways.
historical, religious and political matters involved in football is something that north americans will never understand there in their own perfect world, smiling and eating chips at stadiums, as if the world were wonderful! | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/1/2008 7:24:01 AM | | I'm probably going to get bashed for this but oh well...the greatest sports rivalry in my opnion is not of 2 american teams or 2 euro soccer teams (infact I have a stong dislike towards soccer but I'm not going to get into that here) The greatest rivalry is of the Canadian brand of Football, the CFL has seen over 90 seasons and teh Grey cup has been in existance for nearly 100years. And of all the teams and Rivalries come and gone from the league only one remains as passionate as the day it started nearly 80 years ago, that being the Saskatcewan Roughriders vs. the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. There are no two games that make more money or have as many fans watching then the Labor day Classic and the Banjoe Bowl the following weekend (excluding the Grey Cup and the Western Confrence Championship). | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/1/2008 8:57:04 AM | Your admission about soccer makes your other post about which sport is tougher a little dubious kingrhino...you're not exactly not an objective observer either are you?
As for the rivalry question...you probably don't know much about the famous rivalries in European soccer that lead to riots, injuries and so on...very different forms of rivalry | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/2/2008 1:12:06 AM |
yes political and religious matters involved in football makes it have the greatest and strongest rivalries.
Well, one could also surmise that soccer rivalries in Europe aren't great because of religious or political differences involved; one could look at it from the perspective that the parties involved are simply using the soccer game as a vehicle for their combativeness...if that is indeed true -which you imply, indirectly, that it is indeed- the aforementioned "fans" aren't really fans at all-they would hate the other teams fans no matter what sport they were playing; take away their soccer balls and give them lacrosse sticks, and the hatred would still be manifest.
it is ridiculous and silly to compare it to religious or political rivalries where a lot of real hate and despise is involved.
again i am not bashing anything No, of course you aren't, Pedro; you get special rules of conduct when it comes to having "polite" conversation, don't you? You get to use emotionally pointed and opinionated terms like "ridiculous and silly" and the world has to bow down to your all-knowing, all-wise proclamations.
Let me turn it around, so maybe you'll get it: it is "ridiculous and silly" to refer to the animosity between opposite sides of fans in a European soccer match as a rivalry if said fans are just using said match as an excuse to show how much they hate the other side.
But hey-I'm not bashing anything. | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/2/2008 1:27:54 AM | I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Liverpool V Everton! They finished one place apart in the league this season, the grounds were full and had an amazing atmosphere and the last time the 2 competed in a cup final there was no crowd segregation, just an intense rivalry and a great spirit of competition with 80,000 fans trying to outsing each other.
Celtic/Rangers is a different matter entirely with the old Catholic/Protestant basis. This has calmed down in recent years (since Rangers signed former Celtic player Mo Johnston) but is still a very bitter rivalry and so I wouldn't call it "great".
Scotland/England in football and rugby?
England/Australia in cricket and rugby?
Australia/New Zealand in rugby? | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/2/2008 1:40:47 PM | Pedro, I think what stevemac is trying to say is that some soccer fans aren't necessarily real fans of the game, but use it as an excuse to voice their political and religious views. Barcelona supporters want independance from Spain and to protest or get their opinions across they use the games and start brawls, shootings etc. I'm sure they like their team, but the killings are from "fans" that use the game as a reason for voicing their political or religious views. Personally I think rivalries are local. The greatest rivalry that I know of is Hamilton TigerCats and Toronto Argonauts. Europeans and even Americans probably never heard of these teams. Similarily people have said Rangers and Celtics are the greatest rivalry in football. Most NorthAmericans would Think the Rangers are a hockey team from NewYork and the Celtics are a basketball team from Boston. This is why I think rivalries are more local than world wide. Not that there are no international rivalries.
Mark | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/2/2008 2:22:21 PM | In fairness to Pedro...who has views that are different to mine a lot of the time...part of what he is trying to express is the absolute difference involved in some of these rivalries...it's not a question of these people not being real fans...they love their teams...however, there is a significance involved (at it's most extreme level it involves violence) which goes back to when these teams initially formed in environments when identifying with a team involved "choosing sides"...and that has lasted to this day. Flashgeorge wve a good example of this above...
There's a famous saying from a great great Liverpool manager, Bill Shankly, concerning football not being about life and death...much more important than that | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/3/2008 10:06:55 AM | Mark, i know what you mean friend but let me tell you that Rangers Football Club was establised long before than that ice hockey team you talk about. it was during the 19th century, maybe in 1870 or 1880 more or less.
the same with Celtic Foobtall Club, establised at more or less the same time that Rangers.
political affairs make football so strong and bad that unless you were born and raised in Europe, you will never be able to understand it.
in Barcelona, lots of supporters at Camp Nou carry signs saying 'Cataluña is not Spain', the same in the Basque region of the north of Spain with their biggest club. sometimes they burn Spain's flags, etc
so you see that the world is not so wonderful as you seem to think there in your own perfect country eating hot dogs and chips and smiling during your nice games.
i have been to Barcelona several times, during one of those visits a cousin of mine and me happened to see their stinking stadium. there were some Barcelona supporters outside, and i did want them to be fuming so i said 'Hala Madrid' (something like 'Go Madrid'). suddenly several supporters came after us running, trying to beat or even worse happily two local policemen were near so nothing happened. | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/4/2008 10:04:06 PM |
you still do not understand it.
political and religious matters make rivalries stronger and even worse.
I understand it just fine; I'm not as backward as you regularly imply that Americans -due to their lack on not being Europeans- must be: I'm saying that if one's affections for a given team in a given rivalry is because they hate the other fans as people due to their ethnic/religious/political persuasions means it's not really a sports rivalry, it's an ethnic/religious/political rivalry that happens to be played out every so often in a sports venue.
In short form: it isn't a sports rivalry; it's an excuse. | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/5/2008 3:02:04 AM | | No they are real rivalries Steve...however, many of us grew up with them having, as sporting rivalries, a "different" kind of significance than the sort of rivalry one would expect between lets say the Yankees and Red Sox. It's not a question of saying one is better than the other, but if one is going to ask a question like which is the greatest...well...the most intense and passionate rivalry I've ever seen is probably Celtic V Rangers. The fact that there are often negative consequences and features of this rivalry does not alter the fact that the passion and zeal of the supporters is matched by little else in World Sport. You would also have the same rivalry between nations through the years: in soccer anyways, Germany V England, England V Argentina, Germany V Holland the list goes on. I'm not sure why the US doesn't have a major international rival that I'm aware of in soccer at least... | |
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| what is the greatest rivary off all sports/ 5 commandments of winners and losers
Posted: 6/5/2008 4:22:16 AM |
I'm not as backward as you regularly imply that Americans -due to their lack on not being Europeans- must be:
Check your history young man....where is it your ancestors in America are from?
;)
Ok...so to use an example that might possibly relate the US to us Europeans....Ice Hockey & during the cold war era in the Olympic games were the rivalry was truly intense....that has political grounding & could perhaps be loosely compared to a Celtic/Rangers Real/Barca Liverpool/Everton scenario.
I think the points in the main being that there are obviously very passionate people (within this thread) that will state because of their own background/upbringing that the rivalry they have with other fans/teams is greater than the others. A football fan will argue for football much more than he would for American football....but it doesn't mean through a lack of understanding that either is greater than the other.
I'm sure if I'd been born in the US I would have the same kind of passion for any sport I followed there & would defend it if it was knocked by someone else.
You're all wrong anyway....get an Xbox 360 & play Pro Evolution Soccer with your mates on it & find out just what it means to have 'real' rivalry. lol
Good thread guys.
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