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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/29/2009 3:14:10 PM |
Yep it should be. But not because of the location. Because the act of breeding animals for any purpose should be the right of the individual provided they do not infringe on the rights of others. Big whoop if someone wants to fight a dog against another dog it has no affect on others and thus should not matter. Dogs are man made, we created them and have selectively bread them for many purposes and one of those is dog fighting and the breed is recognized by the AKC. Ahhhh DOGS are NOT man made....taming, breeding and keeping dogs is man made. Where do you get your facts? May want to try another source. Hmmm in the roman days gladiators fought till the death for a source of entertainment...SOME of us have since EVOLVED and have learned this was wrong...thus the tradition has been discontinued.
Some facts about dog fighting....besides that it is ILLEGAL:
Dogfighting is a sadistic "contest" in which two dogs—specifically bred, conditioned, and trained to fight—are placed in a pit (generally a small arena enclosed by plywood walls) to fight each other for the spectators' entertainment and gambling. Fights average nearly an hour in length and often last more than two hours. Dogfights end when one of the dogs will not or cannot continue......Dogs used in these events often die of blood loss, shock, dehydration, exhaustion, or infection hours or even days after the fight. Other animals are often sacrificed as well. Some owners train their dogs for fights using smaller animals such as cats, rabbits or small dogs. These "bait" animals are often stolen pets or animals obtained through "free to good home" advertisements.....Numerous law enforcement raids have unearthed many disturbing facets of this illegal "sport." Young children are sometimes present at the events, which can promote insensitivity to animal suffering, enthusiasm for violence and a lack of respect for the law. Illegal gambling is the norm at dogfights. Dog owners and spectators wager thousands of dollars on their favorites. Firearms and other weapons have been found at dogfights because of the large amounts of cash present. And dogfighting has been connected to other kinds of violence—even homicide, according to newspaper reports. In addition, illegal drugs are often sold and used at dogfights.....Dogs used for fighting have been bred for many generations to be dangerously aggressive toward other animals. The presence of these dogs in a community increases the risk of attacks not only on other animals but also on people. Children are especially at risk, because their small size may cause a fighting dog to perceive a child as another animal.............. Dogfighting is illegal in all 50 states and a felony offense in almost every state.
And you THINK this is O.K......damn that is barbaric. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/29/2009 3:22:34 PM |
Numerous law enforcement raids have unearthed many disturbing facets of this illegal "sport." Young children are sometimes present at the events, which can promote insensitivity to animal suffering, enthusiasm for violence and a lack of respect for the law. I thought I would pull out this and quote it for you...in case you didn't read all of what I just previously quoted about dog fighting.
Don't tell me it doesn't effect anyone...or is it that you just don't care how it effects our children and our society as a whole?....OH yeah, INSENITIVITY...to VIOLENCE....thats what we should promote..."be all you can be" right!!!!! It's that EXACT attitude that SOME adults find O.K. to teach our/aka American children. Damn Scary what the implications of such teachings can have on a society.
Hmmmm....which is WHY IT IS ILLEGAL! | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/29/2009 4:50:50 PM | I thought I would pull out this and quote it for you...in case you didn't read all of what I just previously quoted about dog fighting. Yep I read it, another generalization and may of the same things are one to race horses and race dogs, so nothing new there.
Don't tell me it doesn't effect anyone...or is it that you just don't care how it effects our children and our society as a whole?....OH yeah, INSENITIVITY...to VIOLENCE....thats what we should promote..."be all you can be" right!!!!! It's that EXACT attitude that SOME adults find O.K. to teach our/aka American children. Damn Scary what the implications of such teachings can have on a society. It has little to no affect on societies ability to function.
If dog fighting did not exist what change would we as a society observe?
My guess is we would see absolutely no change as the action is no direct affect on other things.
I would say the biggest effect to society comes from assigning an imaginary effect and then proceeding to point that out to everyone that will listen.
It is like saying do not look at this picture, you are better off just not saying anything at all.
If only George Carlin was still around so he could point out how stupid this all is. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/29/2009 6:10:45 PM |
Yep I read it, another generalization and may of the same things are one to race horses and race dogs, so nothing new there. I would call that statement deflection.
Focus your efforts on the slaughter of all the worlds sharks, because that is affecting the world / climate you live in. Someone fighting dogs is not affecting your world. Just like you previous post....a deflection of the original question at hand. Perhaps you can open a new thread about just that. Just I don't thing it should go under "sports"
A federal grand jury on Tuesday indicted Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick for his alleged role in a well-established dogfighting operation in Virginia where breeders fought pit bulls for purses as high as $26,000 and some losing dogs were electrocuted, drowned, hanged or shot to death...... Will a popular quarterback in the NFL get off or is this the end of Vicks career? My answer to the OP, as you may have guessed...he should held accountable for his actions.
It has little to no affect on societies ability to function. If dog fighting did not exist what change would we as a society observe? My guess is we would see absolutely no change as the action is no direct affect on other things. This coming from a man with NO kids, is into Invisble Sky wizards, Pirates VS Ninja's (sounds like a Peter Pan thing going on) Darwin and Metacognition. Well while some of are not in the "trenches" of the majority of our society it would be easy to "guess" it has to no morale impact on our children aka OUR Future adults. While some of us may 'Think about thinking" , which I'm not saying is bad, but can sometimes blind someone when that is all they know about the way American societies belief sysytem is turning to gangs, violence, over crowded jails...ect.
I would say the biggest effect to society comes from assigning an imaginary effect and then proceeding to point that out to everyone that will listen. imaginary effect????? Maybe you need to spend more time with young people. While working with some "at risk" kids....their take on it...."cool" "Did you see that, Vic in a dog fighting ring.....wonder how much money he made on that sweet deal....yeah he'll play agian...when you have money you control the law...you can do whatever you want..." These are things I heard while in the "trenches" aka time spent with our youth. There have been studies on just that...how animal cruelty of/by young children is a prelude to human abuse. In fact animal abuse is a "warning sign" to look for. The lack of compassion, often spills over to human abuse. LOL,"then proceed to point that out to everyone that will listen"....I'm posting on forum that asked what we thought about the "Vic" situation.....???
Funny you asked about how it affects my world. A neighbor across the street just a few months ago was arrested. 4 adult pitbulls, 2 pitbull pups. For dog fighting. They kept them in the garage and behind a wooden fence. oh while removing the dogs....a lot of dog kennels in the garage. I had to take the long way home. I couldn't pass the street due to the swat team, police vehicles,animal control cars blocking the road. A lot of people became suspicious in the neighborhood when cars would pull in and out ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT. You can hear wild barking at times. One of the dogs did get loose at one point. The neighbor right next door had his tires stolen right from his car, another one had his car broken into and cd's stolen. I did not let my daughters walk the neighborhood freely due to the activities going on. I kept my dog behind our fence and didn't take him for walks. So glad someone called in their suspicions.
It is like saying do not look at this picture, you are better off just not saying anything at all. Some of just look at PARTS of the picture, others look at the WHOLE picture.
If only George Carlin was still around so he could point out how stupid this all is. I agree George Carlin was a riot....yep he would probably make a joke about how acceptable we are of our role models. Who cares it's only people that get affected in the long run. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/29/2009 6:17:53 PM |
A federal grand jury on Tuesday indicted Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick for his alleged role in a well-established dogfighting operation in Virginia where breeders fought pit bulls for purses as high as $26,000 and some losing dogs were electrocuted, drowned, hanged or shot to death...... Will a popular quarterback in the NFL get off or is this the end of Vicks career? My answer to the OP, as you may have guessed...he should held accountable for his actions. I actually don't think the OP's question even makes sense.
It is the role of the legal system to hold him accountable (i.e. will he "get off" or not). It is the NFL's role to conduct business that is in their best interest.
Our society is not structured such that convicts are prohibited from working. Many people seem to begrudge Vick this opportunity simply because his employment is lucrative. I believe that to be envy, not logic. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 12:53:55 PM |
Our society is not structured such that convicts are prohibited from working. Try telling that ONE to the average ex convict. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 5:23:42 PM | | Michael Vick........Shoot/Drown/Strangle....HIM....Period! | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 6:18:50 PM | Michael Vick is back with Nike more than two years after the company severed ties over the quarterback's involvement in a dog fighting ring.
http://www.optimum.net/News/AP/Article?articleId=618201 | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 6:41:32 PM | Try telling that ONE to the average ex convict. I don't need to. I see ex-cons working all the time... some harder than the rest of the population. The "average ex-con" finds employment.
Are you suggesting that our society precludes those with criminal histories from working? That's just factually inaccurate.
It is more likely that you are suggesting that a criminal history makes it more difficult to obtain a job. I agree. But what does that have to do with Vick making it back to his former employment? | |
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00Spy
| Joined: 8/11/2009 Msg: 910 | |
| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 7:33:24 PM |
If only George Carlin was still around so he could point out how stupid this all is.
I agree George Carlin was a riot....yep he would probably make a joke about how acceptable we are of our role models. Who cares it's only people that get affected in the long run.
So the late George Carlin, admitted drug abuser/addict is considered a "role model" but not Michael Vick.
Laughable! | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 8:01:42 PM | | Michael Vick is back to work, and he is still a piece of shit. His actions did affect this society. He shed light on this topic and the country was, for the most part, appalled by his behavior. Life went on after the Manson family was exposed, but society was affected by the ordeal. Clubbing baby seals doesn't stop us from our daily function, but it does affect us knowing that such heinous people are out there willing to sadistically earn a buck at the expense of some innocent animal's life. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 8:36:15 PM |
Michael Vick is back to work, and he is still a piece of shit. His actions did affect this society.
If Vick is such crap then what does it say for Goodell and the NFL leadership?....Vick committed a crime, got caught, did time and was lawfully released!.......Vick didn't sue to get back into the NFL.......the league took him back!.....and because of that, he is allowed to thrive as player on the team he is with now.
Those of you who despise Vick for being back, can no longer isolate your disdain solely towards Vick....You now need to point your fingers directly at Goodell and his product (the NFL)...and if you are not willing to do that, then you are just hypocrites and have NO right to keep blasting Vick! | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 8:58:13 PM |
he is allowed to thrive as player on the team he is with now. You call last week's performance thiriving? 
I get the point though. But, I didn't like the decision to allow him back into the league with only a two game suspension. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 9:18:01 PM | | I call that surviving last week. I'll give Vick credit at least he looks better than Leftwich. Talk about going from potential to crap in less than a year….. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 9/30/2009 9:35:43 PM |
Vick committed a crime, got caught, did time and was lawfully released!.......Vick didn't sue to get back into the NFL.......
No Vick hasn't done his time as he is on 3 yrs supervised probabtion...
As for Vick suing to be reinstated there was no way to sue....
You now need to point your fingers directly at Goodell and his product (the NFL)...and if you are not willing to do that, then you are just hypocrites and have NO right to keep blasting Vick!
Nothing hypocritical about not wanting a dayum criminal in the NFL. As for Goodell allowing Vick back I think Goodell is as bad as Vick....Goodell played the political game by cutting the games suspended down. It's a known fact Goodell was testing the publics attitude letting Vick play in pre-season games. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 1:57:47 PM |
It is more likely that you are suggesting that a criminal history makes it more difficult to obtain a job. I agree. But what does that have to do with Vick making it back to his former employment? That's EXACTLY what I meant Sahara, in other words Vic gets "special" treatment. I agree ex-cons DO find employment. However it is very difficult and often for a job that barely pays your electric bill. Getting "restarted" in life is a long and difficult road. Very few pick-up where they left off. For the "average" ex-con (aka- not of media status or rich) they don't get to go back to a life of luxury. Unfortunately most young people finding inspiration from America's "glorified" don't understand that. A lot of these ex-cons that struggle an upward battle have done far less heinous crimes. Sahara I am a person that believes in "second chances", However I draw a line with certain crimes. All people, including my self, make mistakes, make wrong choices at times, some to larger degrees than others. Whether it be caused by environment, lack of coping skills.,whatever....Crimes that are sadistic and heinous in nature...I draw the line. Sport figures are "role models" too many of our youth...sorry I draw the line in Vic's case to return because of the NATURE of the crime, not so much because he involved in crime.
Michael Vick is back to work, and he is still a piece of shit. His actions did affect this society. He shed light on this topic and the country was, for the most part, appalled by his behavior. Life went on after the Manson family was exposed, but society was affected by the ordeal. Clubbing baby seals doesn't stop us from our daily function, but it does affect us knowing that such heinous people are out there willing to sadistically earn a buck at the expense of some innocent animal's life. Well said!!!!! Skooch you also hit the nail on the head but it does affect us knowing that such heinous people are out there willing to sadistically earn a buck at the expense of some innocent animal's life." Dog fighting is a sadistically heinous crime. It is not only the act of making money at the animals expense. It is finding "pleasure" in watching these animal mutilate and literally tear each other apart, flesh by flesh until the bloody, torn & bitten off limps ends in death. Anyone who finds "pleasure" and "enjoyment" in that is sadistic. In fact in states where the death penalty is legal, the courts hold "Murder" by mutilation, torture, to be especially "Heinous" and punishable by death. Any human being finding SELF PLEASURE in watching any living being be tortured to death is definitely "wired wrong" and down right scary!!!
So the late George Carlin, admitted drug abuser/addict is considered a "role model" but not Michael Vick. LOL, VERY laughable, I don't know many kids that think George Carlin, as funny as he was, as role model. (I think that was another attempt at deflection to the "topic at hand") In fact I rarely hear any comedians names mentioned among our youth. Actors, Actresses, football, baseball, basketball...those are the most common I hear of.
Michael Vick is back with Nike more than two years after the company severed ties over the quarterback's involvement in a dog fighting ring. Oh, yeah and kids especially "look up" to sports figures that endorse things like Nike....hope that back fires on them(nike and Vic). | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 2:09:20 PM |
Dog fighting is a sadistically heinous crime.
It's also organized crime that's why he got away with it as long as he did. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 2:10:42 PM | | ^^^^^good point MGM. I agree! | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 2:20:21 PM |
It's also organized crime that's why he got away with it as long as he did. Huh?
Please explain.
When is a crime not organized?
I would think if it was something that you just did randomly then you would have allot less chance of getting caught dong it then if you did it in some type of organized fashion.
The government cares allot less about someone fighting dogs than it does someone doing anything related to commerce with out handing over a cut of the action.
If it was not for the $ that changed hands he probably would not have done any time and only paid a fine. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 2:48:20 PM |
Huh? Please explain. When is a crime not organized? James perhaps coming from Canada you don't understand what the term "organized crime" used by us Americans. You may want to "google" "organized crime in America"
The government cares allot less about someone fighting dogs than it does someone doing anything related to commerce with out handing over a cut of the action. I would disagree. It's Illegal here in America because it is considered "in humane" and contributes to "OTHER crimes" as well.
If it was not for the $ that changed hands he probably would not have done any time and only paid a fine. Actually BECAUSE of his money....he got off light. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 3:31:07 PM | James perhaps coming from Canada you don't understand what the term "organized crime" used by us Americans. You may want to "google" "organized crime in America" I am aware of what it stands for, but posted a question as to why that was a factor in getting away with it for so long which you failed to address and used it as an opportunity to make a slight against Canada, really speaks to your character.
I would disagree. It's Illegal here in America because it is considered "in humane" and contributes to "OTHER crimes" as well. Well look at the penalties handed out for dog abuse crimes and for Vicks and you will see that I am correct.
Actually BECAUSE of his money....he got off light. Please explain how this is so? If you are unable to do so I would assume you are just making stuff up for the purpose of validating your point.
If he had not had the $ to defend himself how many more years would he have had to serve in jail? | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 4:45:54 PM |
It's also organized crime that's why he got away with it as long as he did.
Huh?
Please explain.
When is a crime not organized?
Ever heard of World's Dumbest Criminals? Trust me they are unorganized and yes they are out there.
Organized Crime consists of Gambling, Prostitution, and Drugs. Many folks live lifetimes just involved in those 3 activities. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 5:15:00 PM |
Actually BECAUSE of his money....he got off light.
Please explain how this is so? If you are unable to do so I would assume you are just making stuff up for the purpose of validating your point.
If he had not had the $ to defend himself how many more years would he have had to serve in jail?
True he did get off light because of his money. The judge, and the public, and even Vic new after him serving the two years he still had a lot of money and that he would not have to go back to dog fighting. Where as someone that didn't have any money would go back to doing the same old crime until they get caught again. | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 5:23:36 PM | http://adage.com/article?article_id=139383
Nike Denies Deal With Michael Vick | |
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| Michael Vick Posted: 10/1/2009 5:40:22 PM |
I am aware of what it stands for, but posted a question as to why that was a factor in getting away with it for so long which you failed to address and used it as an opportunity to make a slight against Canada, really speaks to your character. I did not "slight" against Canada. I merely pointed out a fact since you asked. You did not ask how it was factor...you asked "when is crime not organized. See right below
It's also organized crime that's why he got away with it as long as he did.
Huh? Please explain. When is a crime not organized? Hmmm. if you knew...did I detect sarcasim in your post? No matter, I'll look past that. I thought if you googled organized crime in America you would understand more. this what wikipedia had to say...
Organized crime or criminal organizations can be defined as a transnational grouping of highly centralized enterprises run by criminals for the purpose of engaging in illegal activity, most commonly for the purpose of generating a monetary profit. The Organized Crime Control Act (U.S., 1970) defines organized crime as "The unlawful activities of [...] a highly organized, disciplined association ....Some criminal organizations, such as terrorist organizations, are politically motivated (see VNSA). Gangs sometimes become "disciplined" enough to be considered "organized". An organized gang or criminal set can also be referred to as a mob. The act of engaging in criminal activity as a structured group is referred to in the United States as racketeering. A person that goes and robs a bank is not organized crime, a man that molests a little girl is not organized crime, the person that murders a lover is not organized crime. The neighbor I talked about earlier in posts was not organized crime.
Ever heard of World's Dumbest Criminals? Trust me they are unorganized and yes they are out there. Yes they are!!! Just watch True t.v.... unscripted/live shots.
See next page for Ware's conviction of dog fighting. | |
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