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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/1/2009 5:48:42 PM |
Actually BECAUSE of his money....he got off light.
Please explain how this is so? If you are unable to do so I would assume you are just making stuff up for the purpose of validating your point.
If he had not had the $ to defend himself how many more years would he have had to serve in jail?
No I'm not making it up
Ware v. State
Alabama
--- So.2d ----, 2006 WL 825184 (Ala.Crim.App.)
The trial court sentenced Ware to serve 20 years' imprisonment on each of the convictions of the dog fighting charges, all six sentences to be served concurrently, and a 20 years' imprisonment for the conviction of the possession-of-a-controlled-substance charge. Ware was sentenced in accordance with the Habitual Felony Offender Act, § 13A-5-9, Ala.Code 1975. Ware was also ordered to pay restitution to the City of Mobile Animal Shelter in the amount of $7,808.71, $100 in each case to the victims compensation fund in accordance with § 15-23-17(b), Ala.Code 1975, $100 to the Forensic Trust Fund pursuant to § 36-18-7, Ala.Code 1975, and $1000 pursuant to the Demand Reduction Assessment Act, § 13A-12-281, Ala.Code 1975.
Nike Denies Deal With Michael Vick
Good...I hope Nike doesn't make a deal with him...they have sooooo many better athletes to choose from. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/1/2009 8:43:31 PM | shabbi
No Vick hasn't done his time as he is on 3 yrs supervised probabtion.
probation is not the same as serving time........in effect, what he has now is conditional freedom much like it is with parolees.
As for Vick suing to be reinstated there was no way to sue....
this is america, there is always a way to sue!........there is no court anywhere that would deny him a hearing. the real question is if he'd have a reasonable chance to win it....at this point, probably not........But my point is that Vick did not manipulate his way back into the NFL, he was given an "open door" to be re-instated (conditionally).
Nothing hypocritical about not wanting a dayum criminal in the NFL
No 'criminal' can participate as an NFL'er of his own will, he has to be given permission to play by the commissioner.......so in short, what you "don't want".... is at odds with what the NFL leadership "wants' (or has allowed).
As for Goodell allowing Vick back I think Goodell is as bad as Vick.
which is exactly what i'm alluding to..........right now, its NO LONGER about Vick!!!...its now about the league/leadership that has re-instated him!!!.......for those who are truly appalled by what Vick did, it now must be the NFL/Goodell, that has to be viewed in the same light as Vick !............to do otherwise reeks of Hypocrisy!
It's a known fact Goodell was testing the publics attitude letting Vick play in pre-season games.
correct!... and he did so because he took a calculated risk...in believing that what Vick committed did NOT 'hit home' with most of the NFL fans nationwide......and so far he's proven to be right! | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/1/2009 11:26:04 PM | ^^^More deflection. Goodell didn't electrocute, drown and slam dogs to the ground until they died. It's not hypocritical to accept Goodell's decision and be ashamed of Vick as a human. Vick is a piece of shit, yet people want to defend him. What is hypocritical is to say that you want to see Vick be successful and disapprove of his heinous character at the same time. That is unless you support that type of treatment of innocent dogs. To each their own I guess.
Pit bulls don't come out of the womb as ferocious killers. It's people like Vick who make them that way. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/2/2009 6:25:56 AM | ^
It's not hypocritical to accept Goodell's decision and be ashamed of Vick as a human.
and you are totally in denial!........myself, i never thought Vick woulda been allowed back in the NFL given the nature of his actions and the kinda impact it has.....But to feel disdain toward Vick now, and yet, to accept Goodell's decision to re-instate him is the height of hypocrisy!!!...in effect, you are saying that Vick is "schit", but the league(NFL) and Goodell, who have allowed him to return...is fine by you!
Vick is a piece of shit, yet people want to defend him.
then you clearly haven't read my posts!...i'm not defending Vick, i'm merely shining the spot light where it needs to be pointed...........and its sure as hell not at Vick!
What is hypocritical is to say that you want to see Vick be successful and disapprove of his heinous character at the same time.
you are either outta your mind or you just can't read...where did you see me saying that "i want Vick to be successful"???........if anybody wants Vick to be succesfull its Goodell and the NFL!........to keep busting on Vick while he is in an NFL uniform and NOT busting on Goodell just as much is plain hypocritical! | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/2/2009 1:12:32 PM | Sum1 I think I see what you are saying. You are saying that what Vic did was wrong(dog ring) and that it is the NFL/Goodell that is allowing Vic to come back and play in the NFL, therefore the blame of allowing Vic to play should be on the NFL/Goodell.
I think the NFL/Goodell shouldn't let him back in. It is the job of the NFL commissioner to hold the NFL to standards.
As I have said before I do believe in second chances, however I do draw a line. Anyone who is involved in such a heinous crime should NOT be allowed to participate...i.e. murder's, molesters, dog fighting, ....you get the point.
I think we should "bust" on both Vic AND the NFL....sends a message loud and clear...both have a hand in the situation. Not that they are reading the forums here at POF, but you know what I mean. No one complains.....nothing changes. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/2/2009 9:22:48 PM |
I think the NFL/Goodell shouldn't let him back in. It is the job of the NFL commissioner to hold the NFL to standards. It is the job of the NFL commissioner to make money.
As I have said before I do believe in second chances, however I do draw a line. Anyone who is involved in such a heinous crime should NOT be allowed to participate...i.e. murder's, molesters, dog fighting, ....you get the point.
Should not be allowed to participate... in what? In the NFL? In any profession at all? Or in any profession that nets more than yours?
What, exactly, makes the NFL different than any other business such he should "not be allowed to participate?"
And when did we start calling employment "participation?"
The NFL is not an extracurricular activity. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:29:33 AM |
It is the job of the NFL commissioner to make money.
That's the problem with American society today....it's becoming more about money. BTW you can have "standards" and still make money. Could be WHY Countries like India, Japan ect....are now kicking our butts in economics, becoming green, producing a population with larger higher education. Seems America is going backwards.
Should not be allowed to participate... in what? In the NFL?
That's what the THREAD is ABOUT...I assumed everyone posting here knew that.
In any profession at all? Or in any profession that nets more than yours?
In any profession where your CHARACTER impacts America's CHARACTER. Actually I would not be allowed employment where I work for a crime even far less heinous, since working with children in a school, I am considered someone who "influences" the children of our community. However I would be allowed to flip burgers at the local fast food restaurant, or sweep floors at other businesses. Hmmmm...seems to me a well known Athlete in the NFL would "influence" the minds of a MUCH LARGER scale than me.
Oh yeah I forgot... the "American way" money comes first. Probably why I get paid "squat" to teach, shape, and have a profound affect on the lives of children... and therefore must follow a whole different set of rules.
Before you all go on the bag wagon about pay...I'm not complaining... my point is "Athletes" are a BIG form of influence to our young society, and should be held to the same "standards" as the rest of us are, if we care about the integrity and FUTURE of America. If I could influence our children as MUCH as Vic....heck we would have children on a path that leads to a creative, educated, working hard young people wanting to be apart of making America a thriving Country. Unfortunately it's influences from people like Vic that makes my job more difficult, among other things.
What, exactly, makes the NFL different than any other business such he should "not be allowed to participate?"
My point Exactly.... which is probably why Nike will most likely NOT employee him again as a "sponsor" of their product. I hope they don't... personally I do believe Nike would prosper more without him/his character. As they have in the past. As would the NFL continue to "make money" but with "Honor and Dignity".
And when did we start calling employment "participation?"
The NFL is not an extracurricular activity.
I was using the "term" in the sense of a "slang" word. If you didn't understand that, then perhaps you should pay more attention to our "youths" and the "slang" they use... they will send you whirling... compliments of the likes of "Vic and the like" | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:32:53 AM |
Should not be allowed to participate... in what? In the NFL? In any profession at all? Or in any profession that nets more than yours?
What, exactly, makes the NFL different than any other business such he should "not be allowed to participate?"
Why should Vick be reinstated to a profession he lied to about his crimes? After all ,you lie to the company you work for they fire your azzz then other companies classify you as undesireable and will not hire you.
Ever heard of background checks? They do them to prevent hiring criminals and Vick is a convicted criminal....
The NFL should be much more responsible for the people they allow in because the azzz holes like Vick forfeit their right to a good name and to be trusted....
And when did we start calling employment "participation?"
Because it's defined as the state of being related to a larger whole | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:51:13 AM | Shabbi......Well Said Ditto to your whole post!! | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 11:23:31 AM | at nancy
You are saying that what Vic did was wrong(dog ring) and that it is the NFL/Goodell that is allowing Vic to come back and play in the NFL, therefore the blame of allowing Vic to play should be on the NFL/Goodell.
what Vick did was wrong,....but according to the statutes, he paid for his crime....now the issue becomes on whether it is appropriate to allow him to re-enter into he NFL.......the decision to re-instate him was certainly controversial given the type of crime he committed, but that decision did not come from Vick...it was Goodell's.
Many NFL fans who were appalled by his crime, did not want to see him back...which is understandable.......but the reality is that he is back in the NFL, and to keep expressing disdain (for Vick) without doing the same for Goodell (and the organization he runs) to me is hypocritical!
It is the job of the NFL commissioner to hold the NFL to standards.
unfortunately there are no standards in the NFL.....so long that it doesn't affect the ratings is OK by Goodell !..........which leads to this conclusion!....if the majority of NFL fans (were upset enuff about Vick being re-instated) would start picketing in front of stadiums before the games, and even boycotting some games (in person & on TV)...I'd nearly Guarantee you that in 1 month, Vick would be dismissed!!! | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 12:00:58 PM |
In any profession where your CHARACTER impacts America's CHARACTER. Actually I would not be allowed employment where I work for a crime even far less heinous, since working with children in a school, I am considered someone who "influences" the children of our community. However I would be allowed to flip burgers at the local fast food restaurant, or sweep floors at other businesses. Hmmmm...seems to me a well known Athlete in the NFL would "influence" the minds of a MUCH LARGER scale than me.
So what has the affect to society been so far that Vick is back playing in the NFL?
Oh yeah I forgot... the "American way" money comes first. Probably why I get paid "squat" to teach, shape, and have a profound affect on the lives of children... and therefore must follow a whole different set of rules.
Well at least you are modest.
Everyone follows the same rules, it is their opportunities and abilities that open other doors.
Before you all go on the bag wagon about pay...I'm not complaining... my point is "Athletes" are a BIG form of influence to our young society, and should be held to the same "standards" as the rest of us are, if we care about the integrity and FUTURE of America. If I could influence our children as MUCH as Vic....heck we would have children on a path that leads to a creative, educated, working hard young people wanting to be apart of making America a thriving Country. Unfortunately it's influences from people like Vic that makes my job more difficult, among other things.
So if you think Athletes are such a big influence on the young.
Would you also agree that the following people are also a strong influence?
Dr.s
Policemen
Firemen
Actors
Teachers
If you answer yes then I assume you are all for steroid and mandatory drug testing testing for all of the above people.
Or do you think that those people should be not held to such a high a standard?
IMO
One less thing the world needs is another Helicopter Parent codling the kids. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 2:37:28 PM |
unfortunately there are no standards in the NFL.....so long that it doesn't affect the ratings is OK by Goodell !..........which leads to this conclusion!....if the majority of NFL fans (were upset enuff about Vick being re-instated) would start picketing in front of stadiums before the games, and even boycotting some games (in person & on TV)...I'd nearly Guarantee you that in 1 month, Vick would be dismissed!!!
Unfortunately you're wrong! The NFL does have standards but Goodell failed to uphold his own policy.....Vick was given a privilege others were denied...
p://law.vanderbilt.edu/publications/journal-entertainment-technology-law/news/download.aspx?id=3646 | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 2:41:52 PM |
Many NFL fans who were appalled by his crime, did not want to see him back...which is understandable.......but the reality is that he is back in the NFL, and to keep expressing disdain (for Vick) without doing the same for Goodell (and the organization he runs) to me is hypocritical!
Sum1 I do understand your point....Like Shabbi I do think it was wrong of Goodell to allow Vic to play. I also think it was wrong for the Eagles to add him to their team.
unfortunately there are no standards in the NFL.....so long that it doesn't affect the ratings is OK by Goodell !..........which leads to this conclusion!....if the majority of NFL fans (were upset enuff about Vick being re-instated) would start picketing in front of stadiums before the games, and even boycotting some games (in person & on TV)...I'd nearly Guarantee you that in 1 month, Vick would be dismissed!!!
A valid point. And in a few more years time when our population here in America becomes out numbered by the amount of criminals, gang related activities ect... people will ask....how did America turn to sh*t? This will be one example. I'm not saying it is the only thing....however a big part of story (not just "A" Vic story). I do think it is about time the NFL and large Companies have standards. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 3:25:44 PM |
So what has the affect to society been so far that Vick is back playing in the NFL?
O.K. you convinced me. You LIKE to ARGUE. How many times are you going to re-paraphrase the same question? My answer to that....read the previous posts of not only myself but others on here.
So if you think Athletes are such a big influence on the young.
Would you also agree that the following people are also a strong influence?
Dr.s
Policemen
Firemen
Actors
Teachers
If you answer yes then I assume you are all for steroid and mandatory drug testing testing for all of the above people.
Can't say I have heard any Dr.s names mentioned as "role models" except PERHAPS in a small way Dr. Phil.
I know Policemen, Firemen and Teachers are tested for drugs along with background checks. As do many Companies in America do.
I also know Teachers/school employees here in my county are fingerprinted, back round checks preformed and tested for drugs for employment to even be considered, we also must continually have all 3 done to maintain employment.
IMO
One less thing the world needs is another Helicopter Parent codling the kids.
Shows how little you know of me. I am a BIG supporter of "teaching" our young how to make good choices, to gain their independence and stand on their own 2 feet. Kids learn by the "actions" of adults, not by what we say and definitely not by Helicopter codling parents. Because I take the time to "care" and mentor does not mean I "hoover" on a childs every move...
Guess you missed my point on that one when I posted....
"I believe the children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way...
I am concerned with the way America is moving in the direction of "not giving a sh*t" .
Because the act of breeding animals for any purpose should be the right of the individual provided they do not infringe on the rights of others.
Big whoop if someone wants to fight a dog against another dog it has no affect on others and thus should not matter.
Dogs are man made, we created them and have selectively bread them for many purposes and one of those is dog fighting and the breed is recognized by the AKC.....
So please stop caring about the furry creatures of the world.....
Someone fighting dogs is not affecting your world.
The above post is YOUR post to me a couple of pages back. Obviously you are one those people that "don't "give a sh*t" except for your OWN survival. Thank goodness you are NOT a parent.
Thankfully most of the people supporting Vic to be let back into the NFL, do agree that what he did was wrong. They are just arguing that he should be aloud back into the NFL since he served his time in prison. Not that Dog fighting is a mans right.
You on the other hand act like it is the given right of humans to torture dogs because they are "man made". What an egotistical view... which BTW, dogs are NOT MAN MADE.
IMO your self centered, non compassion, lack of empathy, lack of understanding of matters, non caring manner is down right scary!!!!
It is people of your mentality that I don't want as a neighbor and would advise children/people to stay AWAY from. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 4:55:14 PM | O.K. you convinced me. You LIKE to ARGUE. How many times are you going to re-paraphrase the same question? My answer to that....read the previous posts of not only myself but others on here
You never answered the question and gave an example of how M. Vicks crime has affected society in America and I know it is because you can not show any proof of any affect.
Can't say I have heard any Dr.s names mentioned as "role models" except PERHAPS in a small way Dr. Phil.
Yes because we should have kids looking up to a Dr that is no longer a Dr. because the hypocritical windbag would be brought up before the board for having sex with a patient.
Yeah that is one stellar role model there.
I know Policemen, Firemen and Teachers are tested for drugs along with background checks. As do many Companies in America do.
They are not tested for performance enhancing drug (ie. Steriods)
Lets say you have a teacher that is taking steroids to increase his muscle mass and all the kids look up to him as a role model. Same goes for policemen actors etc..
If they are role models then they need to be held to the same standard.
The above post is YOUR post to me a couple of pages back. Obviously you are one those people that "don't "give a sh*t" except for your OWN survival. Thank goodness you are NOT a parent.
Obviously you are the type to make personal attacks.
Really speaks to your character.
You on the other hand act like it is the given right of humans to torture dogs because they are "man made". What an egotistical view... which BTW, dogs are NOT MAN MADE.
They have been breed by man as we have been playing god with these animals for hundreds of years.
So the creations you see today are a result of selective breeding and if you had a basic understanding of how these breeds where created and the number of dogs that have been killed because they did not meet breed standard you might then understand what Vic was nothing new.
If I wanted to breed ants to fight each other, would that make as bad as Vick?
IMO your self centered, non compassion, lack of empathy, lack of understanding of matters, non caring manner is down right scary!!!!
Again more personal attacks.
I see it as rational thinking, as what Vick did has no bearing on my life thus I care less.
Do you have have any empathy for the billion of insects that are killed everyday or do you only care about the cute furry animals?
It is people of your mentality that I don't want as a neighbor and would advise children/people to stay AWAY from.
It's the self righteous people that judge others that I think are dangerous to society but thats just my opinion.
Hypothetical situation.
Vick does what he does, gets basic press and that is it.
Would society be better off not knowing or is it better to make a big deal of it?
Is it not better it just let things be, instead of standing up and having to point everything out and making a big deal about it?
Its not news its infotainment. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 5:54:18 PM |
You never answered the question and gave an example of how M. Vicks crime has affected society in America and I know it is because you can not show any proof of any affect.
It affected the people that like dogs better than most people. I'm one of them people. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 6:58:32 PM |
You never answered the question and gave an example of how M. Vicks crime has affected society in America and I know it is because you can not show any proof of any affect.
Breaking the dayum law alone affects Society.....
On Vick alone it cost more than two million dollars to investigate the rotten turd then to prosecute the same turd. Society then had to pay for the rotten turd's food and room and board out of tax payers dollars and Society still pays the probation officer to make sure Vick does not break the law again..... | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:17:16 PM |
Breaking the dayum law alone affects Society..
In what way?
Breaking the law is part of society.
Society creates the laws, and assuming that it is possible to live in a utopia where no one breaks the laws is not possible.
So again how was society affected by what he did?
On Vick alone it cost more than two million dollars to investigate the rotten turd then to prosecute the same turd. Society then had to pay for the rotten turd's food and room and board out of tax payers dollars and Society still pays the probation officer to make sure Vick does not break the law again....
So why are you not upset with the society for wasting that kind of money?
Do you think they would have spent that much money if he was not a professional athlete, so you are correct he did receive special treatment because of his status. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:27:46 PM |
It affected the people that like dogs better than most people. I'm one of them people.
How did it affect you?
Where you physically effected?
Or did it just make you mad?
I like beetles, but people keep spraying the trees to kill them.
Should I be able to sentence them to a lifetime of shame, just because it makes me mad?
Does that make me a better person because I feel the need to point out everything that I feel is wrong and make sure that they know how bad it is, because they world will be affected in some way.
Or does it just make me seem like a complainer.
Alex I will take, Threads that will never end and this is getting boring for $400 please. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:42:57 PM |
Shabbi......Well Said Ditto to your whole post!! You agree with him pretending to answer questions presented? Do you have an actual opinion - that's what I asked about... or do you just support the skirting of issues as Shabbi did (and you applauded)? | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:50:41 PM | I've read some of the comments about how Vick got off lightly because he had money. Well keep in mind that the only reason he was as bombarded like he was is because he is a wealthy celebrity. If he was Joe Nobody he wouldn't have got any attention, would not have received a top notch prosecutor and wouldn't have been went after asd aggressively as he was.
Michael Vick has become the face of dog abusers because of his status. He has endured the hatred and hostility of all dog abusers, not just for what he did. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/4/2009 5:08:33 AM |
It affected the people that like dogs better than most people. I'm one of them people.
How did it affect you?
You don't read sentences well do you.
The Philadelphia Eagles have a bye this week and will not play. But next week they go up against the Buccaneers and if Vick plays and the Eagles lose the game I hope his teammates take it out on him like he did to those dogs. That's not going to happen but if it did it wouldn't bother me one bit. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/5/2009 12:37:39 PM |
Breaking the dayum law alone affects Society..
In what way?
Who do think pays to house those who break the law? We all do. We pay to prosecute them as well. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/7/2009 6:34:36 PM | My 2 cents:
I think a lot of people would be protesting at Lincoln Financial Field for signing Vick but a lot of us are two afraid. A 22 year old was beat to death coming from a Phillies game this summer all over a spilled beer and two guys were just stabbed getting off a Flyers bus this week. I'm just not willing to risk my life to go up against angry drunken Philadelphia fans. I haven't watched a football game all season. And, as I said in my earlier post, I don't have an ounce of respect for Gooddell, Laurie, Reid and Dungy - they are all a bunch of scumball sell-outs. I cringe every time I hear his name on the f'n tv and I change the station every time his face pops up.
I'm wtih MGM some of us prefer animals to people. I can live without football and have no personal connection to the NFL and don't even miss it. But, I can't live without my pets! The dogs and cats were put on this earth to be our most precious friends and anyone that does to them what him and his cronies did is pure evil!
Last an 18 year old in Florida is facing a 152 year sentence for killing 19 cats. | |
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| Michael Vick
Posted: 10/7/2009 8:17:27 PM | I'm wtih MGM some of us prefer animals to people. I can live without football and have no personal connection to the NFL and don't even miss it. But, I can't live without my pets! The dogs and cats were put on this earth to be our most precious friends and anyone that does to them what him and his cronies did is pure evil!
From the animals perspective.
What is so great about being a pet?
When you think about it you are keeping something against its will, so to make sure if stays around and does what you want, you must assume a dominate role over it.
Is that such a great thing for the pet?
Wouldn't it really be happier just living of free will like the other animals?
Domestic Dogs and cats serve no purpose other than to please their owners.
So that is why I get confused when people care more what other people do to their own pets and not care than about living things that actually have a role in our survival on this planet.
We are animals, we come in all shapes and sizes, the vast majority will do good by others, but some will not. That is a fact and there is nothing that will ever change that, there is nothing you can do to achieve a perfect utopia where no one ever did anything bad or wrong.
People do bad things because they are bad people, what they see, or who they see does it will not affect who they are.
You either have it in you or you do not, nothing is going to change that.
Thus there is no affect on society as a whole, unless of course there is a huge deal made of an event and then you run the risk of exposing it to people that have that inherit badness in them and triggering something. Which is why I think that making a big deal over something that you think is wrong is not really the best thing to do. | |
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