| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/22/2009 6:03:11 PM | It boggles my mind that people are still even asking this question
I don't know why anybody would be surprised that there are 20 something pages of debating whether or not they landed on the moon. There is 37 pages of debating evolution in this same forum. Mostly the same yahoos deny all these facts. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/22/2009 6:05:21 PM | | As for the moon. We have to ask a few questions. Was it possible to go to the moon? Yes. Did they have means ($$$), the method (rocket science), and the motive ('to look cool' also known as prestige/awe). Yes, Yes, Yes. Therefore barring some kind of evidence otherwise it is much much more probable that we did actually go to the moon. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/22/2009 10:09:54 PM | | This will never die. But I just would like to say that anyone with a lot of money, resources, and a good understanding of calculus could land on the moon. I could do it. The only math required is a good working understanding of differential equations. Make yourself a vessel that can absorb radiation and achieve a velocity of 8km/sec pretty quick and you're all set. It's pretty elementary stuff. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 5:13:04 AM | | Well, now they have the photographic evidence. Pictures from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter shows the equipment still there, the paths walked by the astronauts...of course, if you're going to believe in conspiracies, then maybe those were "faked" too. It's a never ending circle of silly, isn't it. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 6:25:54 AM | A great read on the subject is "SPACE" by James Michener. His story is based on research through the NASA Advisory Council, and the people directly involved with the entire mission. We landed on the moon alright...planet earth is having a hard time navigating through all the junk we leave up there orbiting, orbiting.  | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 11:50:39 AM | There is going to be a whole new generation of environmentalist, i think. Instead of "tree hugger", we will call them "orbit huggers". I dont mean to be derogatory, i dont use those phrases, and i think environmentalism is very beneficial, when the facts are taken into account. The problem is that all to often, these facts are distorted.
So, i just wanted to give some facts regarding the space junk around earth.
1)Almost all of this junk lies within the sphere that has a radius equal to the distance between the moon and the earth. (i.e a sphere with the moon being at its cirumference)
2)it is estimated that there are about 600,000 peices of space debris one cm (0.4 inches) across or bigger. About 13,000 are big enough that we are currently tracking them from earth.
So, the volume of the sphere made by the orbit of the moon is approximately 110,000,000,000,000,000 cubic miles. (this is about 110 quadrillion). Very roughly speaking if you subract out the volume of the earth itself and the earths atmpsphere, it comes to 100 quadrillion.
If you divide 100 quadrillion by 600,000 (the # of space debris 1 cm or bigger) you get 166,000,000,000, or approx 166 billion. So on average, there is about one peice of space debris 1 cm or bigger for every 166 billion cubic miles between us and the moon (the sphere that the moons cirumference creates).
Your chances of being hit are low, even in space. However, dont get me wrong...i'm not saying the space debris isn't bad. We should regulate it, and prevent it from growing more than necessary. And one spacecraft has already been hit by a piece of debris, in the 1990's. So the issue is real. I just wanted to keep things in perspective. | |
|
| |
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 1:32:03 PM |
Actually, Greg, the vast majority of the orbiting junk is below geostationary orbit... 36500 miles in radius
The vast majority of the orbiting junk that we TRACK is below geostationary orbit. When considering every piece of debris 1cm size or bigger, its less of a majority that is within this radius.
But assume that even EVERY piece of debris is within the 36500 radius you mention.
This changes my value to one piece of debris for every 341, 005,818 (341 million) cubic miles. Same idea. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 2:30:24 PM | What junk do you think is between geosynch and lunar orbit? The stages that have boosted lunar vehicles - a few dozen at best. The stages that boosted the interplanetary probes are in solar orbits.
At any rate - it's the junk in the lower orbits that is the *immediate* concern...  | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 3:18:15 PM |
What junk do you think is between geosynch and lunar orbit? The stages that have boosted lunar vehicles - a few dozen at best. The stages that boosted the interplanetary probes are in solar orbits.
a few dozen sizable parts. Much more on the range of 1cm size, like what i'm talking about. Still, i conceded to you that the majority was closer to earth. My above math still applies.
At any rate - it's the junk in the lower orbits that is the *immediate* concern...
See, this is the kind of statement you try to avoid using facts. This is what i meant. There is no immediate concern. Its simply an issue that needs regulation and monitoring. Nothing more. One part of debris per 341 million cubic miles. Since its hard for us to grasp what 341 million cubic miles looks like, imagine an area of space with a base the size of the United States, and extending about 100 miles upwards. Thats big.
There is about one piece of debris for every area of space this big, with the overwhelming majority of the debris being small (1cm to 4cm in size).
Dont start the space version of overzealous environmentalism. There is no immediate concern. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 4:25:12 PM | ...the volume of the sphere made by the orbit of the moon is approximately 110,000,000,000,000,000 cubic miles. (this is about 110 quadrillion). Very roughly speaking if you subract out the volume of the earth itself and the earths atmpsphere, it comes to 100 quadrillion.
If you divide 100 quadrillion by 600,000 (the # of space debris 1 cm or bigger) you get 166,000,000,000, or approx 166 billion.
Better be careful, or this thread might get deleted! The moderators of this "Science" forum don't like it when anyone trys to discuss math concepts and math problems. 
(But religion and pseudoscience... those kinds of discussions seem to be ok!  ) | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 7:22:23 PM | Greg...
Bear in mind that when I refer to it as the 'immediate' problem, I'm doing so as an advocate of a GREATLY increased human presence in space... where every vehicle we send up increases the odds of experiencing an impact from debris large enough to do serious damage.
(And - environmentalism isn't necessarily a BAD thing... ) | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 7:53:29 PM |
Bear in mind that when I refer to it as the 'immediate' problem, I'm doing so as an advocate of a GREATLY increased human presence in space... where every vehicle we send up increases the odds of experiencing an impact from debris large enough to do serious damage.
Well, lets do more math. Assume that we humans send so much stuff up into space, that we add another 600,000 pieces of debris every 10 years. (unlikely because the space program is moving towards ships with LESS debris, not more). But lets say it happens.
At this rate, it would take ONE MILLION years to accumulate enough debris so that there was one piece of debris for every THOUSAND cubic miles. I have a feeling we will have alot else to worry about before then.
Also, much of the debris gets absorbed into our atmosphere all the time and burns up.....so it would take even longer to accumulate this. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/23/2009 7:59:23 PM | | But actually, maybe we are on to something here. "Space environmentalism" isnt really something thats caught on yet. But someday it will. We could be the first to sell "Save the galaxy" T shirts, and headbands, and backpacks. We could organize it as part of the campaign for the next presidency, with Ralph Nader running for green party. We could be billionaires. We both know there's enough yahoo's in this world to make us rich. I say we do it! | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/24/2009 7:22:14 AM | It's amazing some still think we haven't gone to the moon. It reminds me of the protesters out in front of JPL when the Mars Observer was lost. They held signs claiming it was a cover up because the probe found evidence of life on mars. Of course some still believe the earth is flat, so I guess I shouldn't be so amazed. With thousands of satellites launched and inter-planetary probes launched (soon to become inter-stellar) it eludes me as to why someone would believe we couldn't reach the moon.
We stopped going to the moon because is was very expensive with little pay off. There are many element and mineral resources there, but the cost of returning large bulks of them to earth still remains prohibitive. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/24/2009 8:50:56 AM | I have no doubt that we're all lied to on a regular basis, about really important things, by the media and the government.
I saw a documentary called, "In the Shadow of the Moon," where they interviewed all these old guys that were part of the Apollo program. Maybe I'm naive, but I just can't believe any of those adorable old guys are lying. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/24/2009 11:50:47 AM | | You'd take the word of 3 or 4 adorable old guys over the word of tens of thousands of other old guys who tell you the 3 or 4 guys are liars? | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/24/2009 11:53:32 AM |
You'd take the word of 3 or 4 adorable old guys over the word of tens of thousands of other old guys who tell you the 3 or 4 guys are liars?
where are those tens of thousands of old guys?? Are they talking to you right now.?? Do other people see them?? Do they tell you to do bad things?? | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/24/2009 3:49:34 PM |
You'd take the word of 3 or 4 adorable old guys over the word of tens of thousands of other old guys who tell you the 3 or 4 guys are liars?
Are you saying there are tens of thousands of old guys who have proof we never landed on the moon? | |
|
| |
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/24/2009 6:53:11 PM |
This will never die. But I just would like to say that anyone with a lot of money, resources, and a good understanding of calculus could land on the moon. I could do it. The only math required is a good working understanding of differential equations. Make yourself a vessel that can absorb radiation and achieve a velocity of 8km/sec pretty quick and you're all set. It's pretty elementary stuff.
You're wrong about the 8km/s BTW. That's orbital volectiy (what you need to achieve and sustain orbit). To escape Earth's gravy you need about 11 km/s. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/24/2009 9:27:10 PM |
I am still wondering....What did it matter that we landed on the moon????
You just used a device refined by that program to post that message. Just sayin'. | |
|
| |
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/24/2009 11:58:02 PM | yes, it is.
@ is too hot-
you need to post more often in more forums. I feel lonely here sometimes.
Oh - apologies, superior minded one. Does the one necessarily follow from the other?
Perhaps it does in this case - but given the title of the post, the question is valid. | |
|
| Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 8/25/2009 12:08:44 AM |
Therefore - the same technology must have been used to land on the moon - is that right?
I was answering someone else's question. Seems to me that you understood neither the question nor the answer.
Non sequitur much? | |
|
Home
login 
