| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/13/2005 4:37:18 AM |
So I guess we have established then that atheism is a religion?
It was attempted, but thus far all efforts have failed quite miserabley. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/13/2005 7:34:56 AM | | Not so sure about that. I did an internet search and turned up a number of organized atheist groups like atheist parents, etc. Sure seems like they are practicing a system of beliefs. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/13/2005 10:58:24 AM | | The klan is on the net are they people practicing a system of believes? Its a matter of who finds what acceptable (to me the klan isn't acceptable but its still there isn't it?) and the reasons why. If you don't want to read into it than don't nobody is trying to propel you that way. I for instance know of the crimes comitted by the good ol" boys in the klan and it absolutely makes me want to spew and of course its all over the net how could you get away from it? I once simply wanted to know information about the heritage front ( I guess its kind of the same sick principle the klan breeds hate from, the destuction of other races and also hate crimes) and I got a really freaky e-mail saying I was red-flagged for just looking at the front page of the site. Understandable they are both disgusting and all I was doing was researching the topic (I am definately not racist, I am a mic I had a friend once who was from jamaica I think sari tops that indian women wear are lovely, they are always bright in colour and with-out the miles of scarves look like tank tops anyway, and I envy the blue-black thats naturally in the hair of japanise women, also love the myths and true legends of the samurai) I am the type of person that if I want to know something it must be the whole thing. I would never read about just one instance or one side I check-out both but that doesn't mean I agree with it and the net really is a bad example when it comes to it for that matter because we all know that its a kind of lure and peoples believes will always branch and the net makes it real easy for people to cheat lie and even steal. Not to say the nets bad by all means no but it is like everything else people corrupt it and it does make it easy for crooks and a*****'s to get away with some pretty sick stuff. The net is also full of fake or baked organizations too. Chat-rooms and forums are used by criminals and police as well (not at all saying that atheists don't have an established religion because oh yeah they do you are so right there, enough people out there flat don't believe in it or any stem of it I am just kinda freaky that way, most likely from years of reading and researching I don't believe religion flat out not just the ones the raise my hackles lol.) and sick people always seem to find each other when the situation can be bent their way. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/13/2005 11:07:50 AM | | Not tryin' to sound like you are not wanting to read into the other side I don't mean it that way all I was just speaking about it in general its a veiw-point I think cool because it is so versitile. Religion is the unsolvable rubix cube and atheist, christain and whatever others are just pieces in the puzzle. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/13/2005 11:43:49 AM |
Not so sure about that. I did an internet search and turned up a number of organized atheist groups like atheist parents, etc. Sure seems like they are practicing a system of beliefs.
Comparing what an atheist "believes" to what a Christian believes is laughable.
Believer---"I believe in God the father, and Jesus his only son, whom he sent to Earth for mankind's salvation. ALL who die without accepting Jesus as his savior will go to hell.''
Atheist---"I believe that there is not sufficient evidence to support such outlandish claims made by Christians. They haven't a shred of logical, hard evidence to support them, and yet they damn me for eternity for thinking with reason instead of faith. I reject this method of thought." | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/13/2005 5:12:57 PM | is that like.................
an ex smoker? | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/13/2005 10:14:29 PM | | We are not comparing a Christians beliefs to an Atheists beliefs. The question being "is atheism a religion?" I maintain that any organized group who practices a set of beliefs or non-beliefs even, is a form of religion. Religion is something you practice. Yes, I know that there are atheists who do not get caught up in being an atheist. They don't believe in God and don't think about it at all, but there are people who believe in God who do not go to Church. The atheists that frequent this forum are very conscience of their atheism and write about it with passion. Thus, I believe they are religious. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/14/2005 10:40:52 AM | | According to a definition I got from the dictionary that I gave on the previous page, you don't even have to be practicing a set of beliefs. You can be a religious coffee drinker. A religious porn addict and so on. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/14/2005 12:49:43 PM |
So, practicing a set of beliefs is a religion? That's a very slippery slope.
/\/\
I was going to refute that as well, but you did so much more to the point. A fellow logician, eh? Nice. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/14/2005 1:02:05 PM |
According to a definition I got from the dictionary that I gave on the previous page, you don't even have to be practicing a set of beliefs. You can be a religious coffee drinker. A religious porn addict and so on.
The argument was not "Are atheists religious."
The argument at hand is "Are atheists practicing a religion(due to their adherance to their beliefs)."
WordWeb Online says:
Noun: religion ri'lijun
1. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
- faith , religious belief
2. An institution to express belief in a divine power
"he was raised in the Baptist religion"
- faith , organized religion
So how exactly are atheists' "belief system" falling into either of the two above defintions? Atheists aren't believing in divine powers, and they aren't an institution that expresses belief in divine powers.
So, if we believe word web online, then the argument "Is atheism (are atheists practicing) a religion?" has been refuted. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/14/2005 3:31:35 PM | | Word web on-line does not have an exhaustive definition. It fact their definition looks kind of sparse. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/16/2005 7:53:10 AM | | Hey I don't say I am a believer or non believer because it can fit far to extensive of stereotypes. Like athiest or christian. It is a believe system thats complex in the extream. I think this song lyric is a little along the lines of what I mean: ..the stone that sits on the very top of the mountains mighty face does he think hes more important than the stones that form the base? This meaning we will always differ but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't take a look to see if we are stepping on someone else's coat-tails. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 5/16/2005 7:55:12 AM | | And yes atheist's have a religion..... | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/11/2005 11:00:17 PM | | Any atheists here care to comment on that last post? | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/11/2005 11:55:31 PM | A religion is not defined as a group of people practicing a system of beliefs.
A religion is defined as an organization pertaining to a belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
1 + 1 does not = 3, even if everyone (or most) in the room agrees that it does.
See Cachorrosemvergonha's post. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/12/2005 10:31:27 AM | | Thank you M.L.R. I can't say how many times I've responded to this erroneous idea. Go check out the "atheist thread for the rest of us" and you will see that argument was hammered to death. I just don't get why they want so badly to label atheism a religion. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/12/2005 6:15:44 PM |
Another defiintion of religion:
An object of conscientious or scrupulous care.
By this definition feeding your pet fish could be a religion. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/12/2005 6:22:38 PM | | Atheism doesn't have a set of beliefs to practice. Atheism isn't organized either. Not all organizations dedicated to something are religious institutions. RD, you're murdering the English language with your overly broad definitions. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/12/2005 6:30:02 PM | "By this definition feeding your pet fish could be a religion"
CountIbli, you slay me. I just about fell out of my chair with that one. Nothing gets to the point better than a dash of wit. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/12/2005 8:35:16 PM | | I seem to be getting locked out of particular threads for some reason. Just testing to see if this is one of them... | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/12/2005 10:01:30 PM | Count, though I do not have a pet goldfish, that was my argument exactly. Anything can be a religion.
And again, there are atheist organizations. Why do they feel the need? | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/12/2005 10:26:34 PM | If anything can be a religion then the word religion becomes meaningless.
There are some atheist organizations, to be sure. They feel the need for several reasons. First Christians are in a never ending battle to impose their religious beliefs on the rest of the country. They do this through federal holidays built around Christian holidays, getting "under God" added and kept in the Pledge of Alliegence, having "In God We Trust" placed on our money, trying to get schools to teach Creationism and/or Intelligent Design, opposing abortion rights, opposing gay rights (especially gay marriage because the government must protect the sanctity of marriage (sanctity is a religious term)), getting blue laws passed based on Christian values, faith based initiatives, school vouchers (which is just a way of getting the government to fund Christian schools), get school teachers to lead kids in prayers before sporting events, banning books if they don't accord with Christian values, etc. Another reason is that when Atheists "come out of the closet" they face social ostracization from family, coworkers, and people they thought were friends. An atheist organization can provide them social support. In the Bible Belt coming out can make you a target for violence from Christians. Atheists are also portrayed as evil people by Christian propagandists. So Atheists need to spread the word that we're not inherently evil. So mainly Atheist organizations are there to protect us from Christian aggression. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/13/2005 4:11:14 AM | | Ahh there goes RDtoo stirring up the ....merde again. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/13/2005 8:44:27 AM |
Another classic example of why the world is so lost....
cachorrosemvergonha:
Comparing what an atheist "believes" to what a Christian believes is laughable.
Believer---"I believe in God the father, and Jesus his only son, whom he sent to Earth for mankind's salvation. ALL who die without accepting Jesus as his saviour will go to hell.''
Atheist---"I believe that there is not sufficient evidence to support such outlandish claims made by Christians. They haven't a shred of logical, hard evidence to support them, and yet they damn me for eternity for thinking with reason instead of faith. I reject this method of thought."
Absolutely nowhere in the bible does it say that "all who die without accepting Jesus as [their] saviour will go to hell."
On the contrary the saviour is coming back to give you all the proof you need and ultimately everyone will be educated in the ways of God. Just a shame you can't see the proof that is already all about you. But I understand I didn't see it for a long time either.
It's sad that 'you' were damned for eternity but don't think that all people of faith think without reason. There are numerous scientists who are also people of faith. Some are famous some are not. I've met a few. For you to group all people of faith as people who don't use reason is foolishness and typical of hardcore atheists.
I can similarly claim that all who believe in evolution do so with faith & not reason. There is "not sufficient evidence to support such outlandish claims"; no "hard evidence to support them". With massive gaps in the fossil record. No half man-apes from apes continuing to evolve in the jungle. etc. etc. But still many hold to their faith that we evolved from apes over millennia.
For the purpose of this discussion religion is not the right word..
Cult would be far more appropriate. Atheism is a cult not a religion.
Just happens to be the prevailing cult in many cultures. | |
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| Ex-atheists?
Posted: 10/13/2005 10:43:21 AM | "There are numerous scientists who are also people of faith"
Yes there are. The difference is they would never claim their faith to be a scientific proposition. Any legitimate scientists will qualify that their faith is a personal philisophical choice and seperate from science.
"I can similarly claim that all who believe in evolution do so with faith & not reason. There is "not sufficient evidence to support such outlandish claims"; no "hard evidence to support them". With massive gaps in the fossil record. No half man-apes from apes continuing to evolve in the jungle. etc. etc. But still many hold to their faith that we evolved from apes over millennia"
Here we go again. Please read the evolution vs I.D. thread as this has been addressed ad naseum. Briefly, your statement only shows that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT SCIENCE IS. There is a wealth of hard evidence supporting evolution. Please people would you stop talking out of school. The same misunderstandings, logical fallacies and outright misrepresenting of the issues are being repeated over and over. Is it that you don't have the intellectual capacity to understand the responses, are you just not reading them? I'm sorry to be blunt, but it gets frustrating. It's as if you said "eggs don't come from chickens, they come from robins." and I responded "actually they come from both," and you responded in turn, "but robins lay eggs, so they can't come from chickens." Seriously, please at least do some cursory studying of science and evolution and most importantly LOGIC 101 before you comment on what you know little. | |
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