| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/17/2007 2:21:52 PM |
Don't you think that's what human beings do (oddly)? It's not just the way men and women perceive each other but also black, white and all races, creeds and differences. I keep getting the impression that rather than us all trying to get along we're constantly looking for the things that make us different from each other and using it in a negative fashion, because somehow it makes us stronger, rather than wanting to know more about what it's like like to be someone else. it appears we have a fear of losing our individuality and somehow think that by being aware of other living beings feelings ,desires and basic instincts we become less? Is it a religion political based thing? Are religion and politics just a replacement for the strong eating the weak?
I feel it is only when we can stand apart from religion and politics and love unconditionally that we will all become equal. The strong eating the weak sounds like animals rather than humans but I agree that many people do act that way. If ego feels threatened, it attacks.
I feel religion and politics encourages the ego to be defensive and territorial and can thus be very influential in people’s negative decisions and actions. | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/17/2007 5:29:02 PM | When did this philosophy thread turn into a religion and re-incarnation etc, one?
Metamorphosis? ** scratches his head ** | |
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| Yes, that would be so refreshing...
Posted: 8/17/2007 6:56:10 PM | I'm glad you started this thread. Too often the threads in this section, oddly, turn into some sort of bizarre debate with no dialog and plenty of insults. There are so many interesting themes to address in philosophy: the origin of knowledge/truth, epistemology/ontology, etc.
I wanted to know the direction of history in the 21st century and posted this thread toward that end, thinking that folks would provide some insight into dialectical history:
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7927489.aspx">http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7927489.aspx#7927489
Sadly, no one responded to the thread. Sure, there were posts but none of the responses addressed the content of my originating thread or showed that anyone read what I wrote.
All of the folks who responded to this thread on philosophy sound very thoughtful. I hope that they contribute to dialog. After all that was the promise of all informational technology and media: that it would bring minds closer together. I see commercials on TV of adolescent monks in a Buddhist monastery focused intently on an IPod, broadcasting, not the debunking of some myth like the Gulf of Tonkin, but that of some kid in a US City doing some nonsense dance in his kitchen. What a waste of the potential of this internet medium to get mass knowledge out to everyone immediately.
Oh, and by the way if you all have time, please check into my thread and help me to understand our place(s) and time: http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7927489.aspx">http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7927489.aspx#7927489
Thank you. | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/17/2007 7:06:35 PM | | That's because the mind is the ultimate aphrodisiac. Thinking can actually be very pleasurable, just like you say, "mental masturbatin." | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/17/2007 9:43:39 PM | The desire to disseminate one's ideas to others I could see as a definition of science. You just have to use non-partisan and falsifiable methods to sway anybody else, because they all are, and should be, skeptical that what someone else says is true.
You posting this thread is a path to enlightenment. I think I love debate because it is mental gymnastics. I like exercise.
Is eating stomach-masturbation? Who cares? Wait a minute, I just noticed my navel again!
"I was going to write a song called Think too much once but the more I thought about it the dumber it seemed." - Paul Simon | |
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| Philosophy anyone? The Empire or Capitalism of the Mind!
Posted: 8/18/2007 2:04:07 AM | Intellectual capital and property is IMO the emerging new capitalism. Ie people can earn income in perpetuity out of an intellectual product (patent, song, lyrics, book, ideas, etc.). Onwership of ideas or even words or expressions or catchy phrases is already a reality. Intellectualism/thinking is an aphrodisiac and source of hedonism. Without it, sex is meat without salad. And vice-versa!!!
And the least carbon polluting and most "viable" in many ways. Philosophy also replaces the need for certain medical treatments (eg Plato instead of Prozak, so "Prozak Nation" or "Plato Nation"???) | |
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| Philosophy anyone? The Empire or Capitalism of the Mind!
Posted: 8/18/2007 5:13:54 PM |
Philosophy also replaces the need for certain medical treatments (eg Plato instead of Prozak, so "Prozak Nation" or "Plato Nation"???)
I don't know, man. If I need a liver transplant, I don't want my doctor handing me Plato's Republic and then telling me to escape the world of the forms to ascend to the world of ideal livers. | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/18/2007 6:04:49 PM | OK... graciously setting aside your penchant for the absurd...and for the argument's sake..."the end of death" is a pleonasm (I know, I am French and do not know the corresponding English word, so please make allowances:) "end" is implied in "death", they are therefore mutually exclusive. Or were you applying the double negative=a positive rule? That would mean that birth IS the end of death, right? Metaphysically, death and birth are similar experiences, they are both the end and the beginning of a different state of being (I am not saying non-being on purpose, because then I would have to get into the nature of the Quark and I am sure someone would ...tell me to get lost? :)
What say you? And my name is Danielle. | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/19/2007 12:17:11 AM | re post 58
Please re-read post 57. No other comment. | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/19/2007 2:45:09 PM |
Please re-read post 57. No other comment.
Please re-read post 58. Look for hints of humor. No other comment. Heh. | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/19/2007 4:24:12 PM | Hi OP,
HappyLioness
Great thread!
And to think I have been spending time writing on the religious threads! This is much better than being bombarded with quotes from the bible.
I prefer discussions to debates as debates imply win and lose. Discussions imply sharing.
I've enjoyed reading each and every one one of you...my god, some of you speak so well.....I read all this while I was having a solitary dinner of left-over spaghatti for the third day in a row...haha...you guys were great company....and I must say I LOVE having philosophical discussions....in fact this is what I live for, but my lack of formal education in the matter and my being french doesn't permit me to add anything valuable to this thread, except maybe to say that we must teach our children how to use critical thinking...it is very disheartening for me to see my grand-daughter learning how to *hate* learning, if you know what I mean....the education system has not changed since I was a little girl, and I can't for the life of me understand with all the resources available to them, how it is that a school can not make it more fun for the kids to *want* to learn....but yet when I sit with her and we go explore different sites on the internet together, she is more than eager to learn, she seems to thrive on it ....we even watched the first part of the movie Zeitgeist together the other day....no small feat for a 13 year old who is used to the hollywood type of films and who claims to hates documentory films.....haha...and of course I explained that what she was seeing was one person's interpretation of his truth, but what matters to me is for her to be able to use her critical thinking abilities and to be able to discern for herself all the information that's out there....and yeah, I just noticed that this is one hell of a run-on sentence....blame it on the french....haha!!!
Thanks for the great read....
Love and peace...
Old... | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/19/2007 5:57:19 PM | | imho philosophy is not for everyone. I find it circular and a waste of thought. | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/19/2007 7:36:03 PM |
what was the sky like when you were a child?
As I seem to live in a world of my own... according to my brother. He often asks me what colour is the sky in my world. I usually reply "pink"... and yours is??
Philosophy, meditation, self-help books, various religious texts, great works of art, poetry, music, etc... etc... etc... are only means to try to find within ourselves answers to the question... Just wtf are we and why are we?. Just trying to find an answer can be a trip into insanity to any and all of us. Or it can lead one to the astonishing result that there is no answer... Just get on with your life and enjoy.
But, if any of you readers want to experience the awe of childhood again. Just get yourself out camping about 100 miles from any good sized town... in a desert would be best... and get up at about 2 to 4 am... and if you are blessed with a good clear night you will be astonished at the beauty of the night sky. With all the majesty and glory of the milky way and the whole sky lit up with stars.
Now that is a truly remarkable experience. Enjoy. | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/19/2007 11:37:46 PM | According to the writings of Laurens van der Post, the Bushmen hear the stars, as well as are totally aware of their environment. If a butterfly flies in Java does it effect YOUR world? It moves the air, even if ever so slightly in Java, which....you get the idea.
Though we have removed ourselves "far" from the enviornment in which we were "born" and in many ways lost touch with it--we no longer have to dig for roots, hunt for meat orfind water on a daily basis to survive--and I am not saying we should go live in that environment, but I think we need to be more aware of our "lower" instincts and feelings that hold over into our "modern" world.
The "need to win" the "desire to fight" the acquiring of "stuff"---when we have more than enough stuff + 1,000% to survive--we devote so much of our time and energy to acquiring "things" that I think we lose sight of the basics of "life"--and that's not "stuff"--we can no longer "hear" the stars... | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/20/2007 2:14:12 AM | IMO, EVERYONE must philosophise and develop his/her own "philosophy on life", not blindly follow others' philosophical mantras and minsets . Like business strategy, each person's philosophy on life has to be unique, ie tailored to him/her. Not ready made, bought from the shelve of the Philosophy Supermarter .
Philosophy is application oriented in the daily life of a man or woman. Otherwise it is of limited value. | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/20/2007 3:09:49 AM | | if everyone developed their own philosophies and lived with them... what would we have as a whole???? It would be kaos...!! Everyone with their own philosophies' would have contempt for each other, i would think. Maybe that is how a few wars have begun over the ages.. In the ideal philosphical world, every person's philosophy would be correct for that individual, to li ve by- the problems would become quite obvious when two or three or four etc. offer mankind their philosophies...i could say that an individual might glean certain usuable philosophies that already exist, and develope his own version from the material, but it wouldn't be pure. It would become diluted and dissapate over a few generations. The great philosophers that we know of, practised their individual philosophies and had followers, that adhered to their belief systems. Many of the Greek philosophers were contempory with each other , and knew and listened to others' point of views at the Acropolis, or the Agora. ( market) | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/20/2007 4:40:34 AM | re post 67
"if everyone developed their own philosophies and lived with them... what would we have as a whole???? It would be kaos...!! "
1) No one's personal (or even group) philosophy can be in conflict or above the Constitution and the laws of a land, in Secular states/lands.
2) Thus within the framework of respect for Constitution and laws, the system is called "Pluralistic", NOT "Chaotic".
"Everyone with their own philosophies' would have contempt for each other, i would think."
That is a major assumption, IMO.
"Maybe that is how a few wars have begun over the ages.."
1) Rather the opposite, they were started between"groups" of different dogmas not persons of different "philosophies".
2) There is a grand difference between philosophy and dogma, In fact, they are near opposites.
"In the ideal philosphical world, every person's philosophy would be correct for that individual, to live by- the problems would become quite obvious when two or three or four etc. offer mankind their philosophies...i could say that an individual might glean certain usuable philosophies that already exist, and develope his own version from the material, but it wouldn't be pure. It would become diluted and dissapate over a few generations."
Not sure what the above syllogism says.
"The great philosophers that we know of, practised their individual philosophies and had followers, that adhered to their belief systems"
Again, having zealots can lead to armies and wars between them etc.
"Many of the Greek philosophers were contempory with each other , and knew and listened to others' point of views at the Acropolis, or the Agora. ( market)"
Of course people can discuss their philosophies. They are not dogmas (neither are "strategies" of corporations). And get elements from others'. But not copycat. Because the world is the same for all, but each human being is different.
The Chinese said that that a personal self awareness leads to wisdom and awareness understanding of the world/environment leads to enlightement.
The Ancient Greeks offered the world great thinking on personal and civic ethos.
In the 21st century, things are different than 450 BC or the 19th centurt or even 1980. Pluralism is the goal, but within an organised Society. Coexistence of personal private freedoms with personal public obligations.
Individuals have human and constitutional rights as individuals, not as groups. Personal freedoms and rights outweigh groups' rights. And the majority has rights too. Groups have less rights than individuals and than majorities. Minorities do not have a right to govern, that is against the idea of Democracy and Individual rights.
Ie. everyone must be more or less a "philosopher" or ar least "philosohically minded", IMO.
IMO, each CITIZEN must respect Constitution and laws and use philosophers "proposals" as raw material to form one's own personal (suitable) philosophy, within the constraints of the Constitution and the laws of the land.
Philosophies are not fashions or laws or dogmas. Philosophies are .. philosophies. They are like brains, everyone has one and must use it, not turn it off and follow others.
Just because I am Greek that does not mean I have to agree with all Plato's or other Ancient Greeks' ideas, although they do make excellent "food for thought" in 2007, maybe the best around even today not just 2500 years ago!!
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/20/2007 11:30:17 PM | | I started this post to find out the interest - seems like there are a lot of people with something to say. I began to facilitate a philosophical discussion group and if anyone lives in Tempe, Scottsdale, Phoenix or surrounding areas and would like to come, please email me and I will give you details! | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/21/2007 5:13:30 AM | | It's way better under the Acropolis!!! lol lol lol | |
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| Philosophy anyone? The Empire or Capitalism of the Mind!
Posted: 8/21/2007 10:49:45 AM | | I agree with Nick Thinker that intellegence is the new capitalism of this post-modern world. Intellectual resources, talent, is what will pay dividends in modern societies, not brute strength anymore. But as for being a source of hedonism, then so be it. I think it is a good hedonism. Enjoying a good meal, or the pleasure of being with friends are also sources of hedonism as well. I think when it is taken to the excess, does it become destructive. But I am not sure about intellectualism though. Can a person be too smart? | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/21/2007 10:56:30 AM | I agree with post 66 that everyone must develop their own philosophy of life. They can agree with other philosophies, but they should tailor it to suit their own individuality. This is the reason that I reject all forms of organized religion. I mean no disrespect, but I think religious dogma is for the lazy. People who are too lazy to explore other philosophies or religions, who just blindly accept the beliefs of their forebears.
I once new a man who was from Pakistan and is a devout muslim. When I had asked him about his religion, he could not answer me. How sad to go through life never questioning anything. Am I wrong to think this way? | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/21/2007 1:24:56 PM | | I wrote that intellectual is the new capital.. Not intelligence. There is such thing as "too much intelligence". Anybody can be intellectual, as long as they possses some analytical skills from basic education (not uni) and they LIKE to think (and think things through). | |
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| Philosophy anyone?
Posted: 8/21/2007 2:42:00 PM | | if intellectual is the new capitol, in our world, who is buying it??? Who is actually controlling the market on intellectual products???? Do our world governments have anything to do with these intellectual products, as they come on the market?? taxes etc. What are the advantages of producing intellegencia for the masses????... | |
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