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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/8/2009 9:12:28 AM | To rational people who are relying on scientific evidence and objective considerations, the circumcision debate is over. No objective person or group is currently claiming that there are significant medical, hygienic, or ethical benefits which warrant routine neo-natal circumcision. Any serious debate about this subject ended years ago.
The pro-circ position is an extremist, zealous stance based on self-interested, or even obsessive, considerations.
POSITIONS OF MAJOR MEDICAL ASSOCIATIONS ON CIRCUMCISION:
British Medical Association:
“The BMA does not believe that parental preference alone constitutes sufficient grounds for performing a surgical procedure on a child unable to express his own view. . . . Parental preference must be weighed in terms of the child's interests. . . . The BMA considers that the evidence concerning health benefit from non-therapeutic circumcision is insufficient for this alone to be a justification for doing it. . . . Some doctors may wish to not perform circumcisions for reasons of conscience. Doctors are under no obligation to comply with a request to circumcise a child.”
Royal Australasian College of Physicians:
“After extensive review of the literature the RACP reaffirms that there is no medical indication for routine male circumcision. The possibility that routine circumcision may contravene human rights has been raised because circumcision is performed on a minor and is without proven medical benefit. . . . Review of the literature in relation to risks and benefits shows there is no evidence of benefit outweighing harm for circumcision as a routine procedure.”
Canadian Paediatric Society
“Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed.”
American Medical Association & American Academy of Pediatrics:
“Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision.”
Australian College of Paediatrics:
“The Australasian Association of Paediatric Surgeons has informed the College that ‘neonatal male circumcision has no medical indication. It is a traumatic procedure performed without anaesthesia to remove a normal functional and protective prepuce [foreskin].’ ”
Australasian Association of Paediatric Surgeons
“We do not support the removal of a normal part of the body, unless there are definite indications to justify the complications and risks which may arise. In particular, we are opposed to male children being subjected to a procedure, which had they been old enough to consider the advantages and disadvantages, may well have opted to reject the operation and retain their prepuce [foreskin]....The 1989 United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child states that ‘State parties should take all effective and appropriate measures with a view to abolishing traditional practices prejudicial to the health of children.’ ”
The cartoonish, over-eager, pro-circumcision posts we see here are sometimes amusing, and sometimes merely annoying; but those opinions are clearly not based on any rational, health-based, or scientific considerations. For those of you whom are rightly anti-RIC---don't waste your time sending private messages to fanatics. It's not constructive, and it won't change their minds. Calling them names, or being provoked by their deluded rants, will only give those few people a false sense of self-importance.
You wouldn't try to get into a pointed debate with a bum on a downtown street who is drunk with spittle running down his beard, right? You wouldn't try to convince an untreated, un-medicated schizophrenic concerning the falsity of his delusions, right? It's just as futile to try to discuss the brutality and banality of circumcision with a pro-circ lunatic. Lunatics want to see RICs performed because it gets them off---there's no other reason for the preference. So don't humor pro-circumcision people by sending angry, private emails to them.  | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/8/2009 9:30:46 AM | Come on spitfire: ((((((((((Lunatics want to see RICs performed because it gets them off---there's no other reason for the preference. So don't humor pro-circumcision people by sending angry, private emails to them. ))))))))))))
How utterly ridiculous. My pediatrician recommended it.
The nasty emails, name calling and put downs stem from low egos and you know it. Some of the characters in this forum, get irate if someone doesnt agree with them. Grown men cringing at the thought of the surgery they do on babies, everyday.
There are thousands of people on this site and each one will have their own opinion. And because it is their opinion, it is the right one for them. As your is, as mine is, even the jerks slinging nastiness. You think it gives someone a sense of false importance or adds humor to someone life by screaming obscenities at someone? How warped is that?
Im not going to stay in this forum and argue with you guys. It serves no purpose in the world, cause you guys dont debate fairly, and I learned years ago to walk away when some man was yelling at me, cause it cant end well. I know what I know. And it stems from experience and a medical standpoint. | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/8/2009 9:54:02 AM | The official stance of medical associations, scientists, and individual medical personnel around the world is that routine infant circumcision is not medically indicated. Period. I'll add my brother-in-law to that group as well---he's also an M.D.
There is no serious debate on this subject whatsoever.
There are certainly a small number of extremist, individual doctors one could find who still advocate RIC. They are a very small minority today. They are likely operating from self-interest or obsession, just like John Harvey Kellogg (the pre-eminent, 19th century proponent of RIC). Kellogg advocated regular, bizarre enemas for his patients; never consummated marriage with his wife during their decades-long union; claimed that RIC would stop youthful masturbation; was a staunch advocate of complete sexual abstinence and eugenics; and advocated routine sterilization and castration of the poor along with RIC. Kellogg had a very unusual medical practice.
The primary proponent of modern-day RIC was a quack; but his extreme views were somewhat more commonplace during his time in the 19th century. Such views, including RIC, are not only extreme, but irrational and inexcusable in the context of the 21st century. We have substantially more knowledge today. Kellogg and Louis Sayre exhibited the relative ignorance of their time. There is no excuse for RIC advocacy today, except among mentally-disturbed zealots. | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/8/2009 10:24:51 AM | "If a foreskin is too tight and won't properly retract from the glans, it causes a condition called phimosis"
the comment above ^^^^is fully correct. when i was a child i had phimosis, as lots of men, so i was taken to the hospital at the age of 9 and had the foreskin cut, simple!
as for whether women find a circumcised penis more attractive or not, well i have met some women who find it more attractive, just like many other women find the intimate part better when shaved.
as for the cleanliness, it is quite clear that it is better if you have been cut. | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/8/2009 10:56:58 AM | "as for the cleanliness, it is quite clear that it is better if you have been cut"
No, it's much better if you clean it. | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/8/2009 12:02:08 PM | | Bottom line is....it doesn't matter what a woman's "opinion" on it is....because when she's fired up and ready to go...there are no opinions anymore...there's just raging ruthless hormones and emotions...and they'll take whatever he's got. Period. | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/10/2009 9:51:55 PM | It seems to me that participants in this forum who are uncut get so upset about people's opinion, i.e. the more prone to disease and sanitary issues. Bottom line is, it's easier to wash circumsized penis than the uncut. How do you clean the uncut anyways, do you actually peel the foreskin and start soaping the hell out of the inner flesh? That must hurt. At the end of the day, there must be a stinker inside that underwear that has to be wiped with alcohol or something strong to remove the odor excreting from it. Sorry, but everyone I know who is uncut tell me the same thing about the odor. Cheese head is what they call it. I still wish I'm uncut. So don't be mad at me. | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/11/2009 2:43:41 AM | [QUOTE]It seems to me that participants in this forum who are uncut get so upset about people's opinion, i.e. the more prone to disease and sanitary issues. Bottom line is, it's easier to wash circumsized penis than the uncut. How do you clean the uncut anyways, do you actually peel the foreskin and start soaping the hell out of the inner flesh? That must hurt. At the end of the day, there must be a stinker inside that underwear that has to be wiped with alcohol or something strong to remove the odor excreting from it. Sorry, but everyone I know who is uncut tell me the same thing about the odor. Cheese head is what they call it. I still wish I'm uncut. So don't be mad at me.[/QUOTE]
You're a man and actually think that retracting a foreskin and cleaning would be painful? Are you sure that you have discussed this with other men?
BTW, when you wash parts of your body do you not dry them as well afterward? Where are you getting this information from? BTW the issues about disease and sanitary conditions are not opinions, there is scientific facts that they are not a concern at all if properly cleaned. Do you think that suggesting the Earth going around the sun is an opinion? | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/18/2009 1:11:36 PM | This thread is hilarious.
Those cut ,prefer cut.Those uncut, prefer uncut. Most in here are raging foreskin zealots!!!!! LOL LOL
I'm cut and all you uncut guys have a penis that looks like an aardvark. LMAO!!!!!! | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/18/2009 1:44:44 PM | I usually don't post much about my personal "sexual" opinions on the forums. I do however feel the need to make an exception on this particular thread....the thread that doesn't die. I was with a man that was not circumcised once, it was my first experience with someone uncut and I found it to be extremely sexy, erotic and fascinating. He rocked ...*sigh* I miss him  All the different phobias folks have about uncleanliness I did not experience with him at all. He ROCKED! | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/18/2009 2:51:07 PM | The old cleanliness thing really bugs me when circumsided men say their kn0bs are cleaner...
I have posted on this thread somewhere before on my old name before i left and rejoined.. but i will say it again. There is, ladies and gentlemen, a thing called soap. I know its a novel and unusual thing but men in the UK (well most of them) use it to clean their mostly uncut willies.
They pull the foreskin back gently and clean underneath it.
It is purely an asthetic thing for people in the US, i dont understand why a paediatrician would actively recommend it other than for health reasons (which are technically impossible to tell until the foreskin moves a bit more freely with is not at birth it is around 18 months to 2 years), chances are he is part of the snip em all off brigade.
Unless it is for health or religious reasons (even for religious reasons im still a bit against it!!) there is no reason at all why a child should have his privates mutilated just because society thinks it makes them cleaner! | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/18/2009 4:14:59 PM |
Msg: 23 -- ^ ^ ^ ^ Um no. Taking off a foreskin in no way ruins a
man's sexual pleasure. The same thing can't be said about removing a
woman's clitoris.
WOW, how can ANYONE take BOTH as being EQUAL? Shaving off some skin is
NEGLIGIBLE. REMOVING a BODY PART **DISABLES** the affected body as a
WHOLE.
When comparing a man to a woman, REMOVING a woman's CLITORIS is
TANTAMOUNT to REMOVING a man's PENIS. No, exclude the word
"TANTAMOUNT". Supplant in its place the word "EQUAL", or, EVEN the
word "SUPERCEDES".
Without delving into off-the-shelf ideas such as "G-Spot" and/or
whatever, MOST women DEPEND on their CLITORIS for sexual satisfaction,
and deem themselves "substandard" if they are unable to "achieve" the
set "standard".
Yeah, foreskin removal, referred to as "CIRCUMCISION", is deemed
"NORMAL", and SHOULD be stopped as a standard procedure. But then, so
should "CLITORECTOMY", WIDELY accepted in this world we collectively
call "Our Planet".
WE, as HUMANS, **DOMINATE** all that we see. After all, that is what
God has endowed this planet. But, somehow, in the Garden of Eden, I
FAIL to see the pleasures of ONE over the OTHER. OK, I see she MUST
OBEY him, umm, in the OLD TESTAMENT. But then, I also look in the NEW
TESTAMENT, and what do I see? THE SAME!!!! She MUST obey him, AND
satisfy HIS desires.
BUT, so MANY choose to ignore the desires of the WOMAN. This is as if
her clitoris had ALREADY been removed.
Make NO mistake, I want an obedient and submissive woman. BUT, she
MUST make such a decision on her OWN, resulting from her OWN desires
and expectations.
I AM dominant. I WANT a submissive woman. BUT, she MUST be submissive
by DESIRE, **NOT** by demand. A "demand-driven" woman wants nothing
more than my approval. She risks ALL on what SHE wants, and NOTHING on
the desire of her prospective mate.
I prefer a woman, who, DO **OR** DIE, will pursue the man of her
DREAMS. AM **I** the one she wishes?
See, THIS is the TRICKY thing about ANY relationship. The BIGGEST
question I see is "will it work?"
My answer; perhaps it will, perhaps it will NOT! If you have a problem
with MY answer, then perhaps you have a problem with LIFE itself.
OK, you want a CONCRETE answer? TRY THIS!!!! ESTABLISH a relationship
with one you trust MOST. ALLOW the relationship to develop to YOUR
satisfaction.
Here comes the hardest part; the termination. ALL relationships
involve TERMINATION, REGARDLESS of CAUSE. From this comes the ULTIMATE
of satisfaction or disappointment thereof.
So, tell me what was the MOST significant of YOUR romantic
association. Was it POSITIVE or NEGATIVE?
OH,???? my temptation to reveal what I sense, but I will release ALL
in exchange for seeing what is in REAL life!!!! | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/19/2009 9:12:38 AM |
It is purely an asthetic thing for people in the US, i dont understand why a paediatrician would actively recommend it other than for health reasons (which are technically impossible to tell until the foreskin moves a bit more freely with is not at birth it is around 18 months to 2 years), chances are he is part of the snip em all off brigade. American doctors are notorious for advising and performing surgery or prescribing drugs that aren't necessary so they can make a few more bucks. Just look at their hysterectomy statistics:
It is the most commonly performed gynecological surgical procedure. In 2003, over 600,000 hysterectomies were performed in the United States alone, of which over 90% were performed for benign conditions.[1] Such rates being highest in the industrialized world has led to the major controversy that hysterectomies are being largely performed for unwarranted and unnecessary reasons. [2].....In the United States, 1/3 of women can be expected to have a hysterectomy by age 60. from wikipedia
90% for benign conditions for a surgery akin to having your gonads chopped off. If it keeps them in business.... | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 8/19/2009 12:25:04 PM | I'm uncircumcised, never thought much of it. When I was younger I was a little insecure about the other boys seeing it like in the locker room shower. If you look at it rationally, who really cares? I'm lucky enough to have a 'normal' sized member, so what if there's foreskin on it? It's natural, nothing to be ashamed of.
Recently after seeing comedian Sal Governale do this, I've found that I can have some fun with my foreskin. I can fit objects in it and play a game called "guess what's in my pouch".
Charming I know.  | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 9/13/2009 6:59:19 PM | | In countries where FGM occurs it is usually the women who perpetuated it onto their daughters, they often don't feel it was a violation. Heck in Indonesia it's done on neonates, just like males here. So how do they know what is missing? What reason would they have to stop it, they're fine. It's the same dance just a different tune. Female circumcision is a term applied to a variety of procedures performed on the female genitalia, involves the removal of the clitoral hood and some of the labia This is the same parts that becomes the foreskin on a male at 10 weeks gestation. So the question is a good one. Why are we vehemently opposed to one, in even it's mildest form, and not the other. gender no object. "Cut is cut, mutilation is mutilation." Circumcised women choose to have their daughters circumcised, citing how it's cleaner, good sexually, reduces secretions and smegma and is generally hygienic, and also mentioning studies showing circumcised women have lower infection rates. Basically the same reasons that people use to defend male circumcision. It's just a cultural difference. Are you aware that the USA also used to practice female circumcision? It was never anywhere near as popular as male circumcision, There are frequent references to the practice in medical literature up until the 1950's. Most of them point out the similarity with male circumcision, and suggest that it should be performed for the same reasons. Blue Cross/Blue Shield covered clitoridectomy till 1977. A woman’s vaginal opening contains about 3,000 erotic nerves her largest concentration of erotic nerves is in her clitoris approximate 8,000 erotic nerves. In men the head or gland of the penis has 4,000 erotic nerves his largest concentration of erotic nerves is in the foreskin approximate 20,000 circumcision removes 83% of the erotic nerves it would be stupid to think a circumcised penis with only 4,000 erotic nerves would have the same amount of feeling as a uncircumcised one with 24,000 erotic nerves A woman with her clitoral hood and the labia removed can still have a orgasm just like a man with his foreskin cut off can still cum buy he has to take long hard strokes to do it ware a uncircumcised man takes shorter gentile strokes No national health organization in the world recommends routine circumcision. 80% of the men in the world are not circumcised. Dr. Morris Sorrels, M.D. said in my preliminary study on penile touch sensitivity, comparing circumcised and normal men. A man who was circumcised as an adult has complained that it now feels "like having sex with an elbow" so little of feeling compared to what he had before circumcision. Another one said sex before circumcision on a scale of 1 to 10 felt like 11 after circumcision it barely made a 3 Decreased penile sensitivity and increased erectile dysfunction were the most frequent complaints reported by men who were circumcised. In reality both MC and FC began as a way to reduce the sexual sensitivity. In the late 1800s cutting off the most sensitive part of the penis (the foreskin) MC was introduced to stop masturbation. When it was found not to stop masturbation the claims of medical benefits arose Some research suggests that circumcised infants may have a lower incidence of urinary tract infection (UTI).baby boys uncircumcised or circumcised have less then (1.%) chance However, female infants have a higher incidence of UTI than circumcised or intact boys (5.%). Penile cancer is an extremely rare disease with less than 1 case per 100,000 men and a median age of diagnosis of 64 years. Advocates of circumcision found more ammunition recently when it was reported that uncircumcised heterosexual males were more likely to contract HIV/AIDS than their circumcised counterparts So how do you go about conducting a randomized, controlled intervention trial looking at HIV infection in circumcised adult men? Probably not the way that these researchers did. First, to be included in the study, men had to be HIV-negative and uncircumcised. The men also had to consent to "avoid sexual contact (except with condom protection) during the 6 weeks following the medicalized circumcision." The experimental group which underwent the circumcisions was given the following instructions"When you are circumcised you will be asked to have no sexual contact in the 6 weeks after surgery. To have sexual contact before your skin of your penis is completely healed, could lead to infection if your partner is infected with a sexually transmitted disease... If you desire to have sexual contact in the 6 weeks after surgery, despite our recommendation, it is absolutely essential that you use a condom. "So the males in the study that underwent circumcision were not only told to abstain from sex for a significant time period after the operation -- reducing their exposure time by six weeks compared to the uncircumcised (control) group -- but told to use condoms, taught how to use them, and educated about their benefits. During this six week period, the men in the uncircumcised group did not have the same restrictions. There also doesn't seem to be any mention of the researchers calling up the circumcised men after six weeks to say, "Okay, time's up. Ease up on the condom use from here on." The possibility that many of these men might have become accustomed to using condoms, armed with knowledge about their benefits, didn't seem to be much of a concern. And the stopped the study one third of the way throw before the circumcised men cot up with the uncircumcised. The American Academy of Pediatrics has found that newborn infants feel pain as much if not more then adults. Infants experience excruciating and traumatic pain during the 6 to 10 minute circumcision and for weeks afterwards some go in to a shock type coma. If you can stand to hear a baby scream in pain you can watch a baby being circumcised most are done with out anesthesia for fear it mite kill the baby http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQqOEylGW7k | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 10/26/2009 1:30:41 AM | | Thats because there is a difference in pleasure. The more I retract the more I can touch it and mess around with it. The more I leave it covered it becomes sensitive to the touch...and its perfect that way, its my decision what I want to do with it, how much pleasure I want, and what I want it to look like. The thing Im most happy about is that its healthy and natural, no scars- nothing...the way it was OBVIOUSLY intended to be...and nature is perfect. | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:17:40 AM | | If the hospital tries to send the kid home without a trim, don’t leave till it has finished the job. It’s astounding a woman would consider getting within a mile of a man who hadn’t had the procedure. | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:21:59 AM | I'm in Canada, I'm uncut and have never had an STD, no hygiene problems, no complaints from my partners either... I would not do a late cut for any reason whatsoever... my gland is very sensitive and I like it that way... 
BTW, I do have a son and he is not cut either | |
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| Circumcised vs Un-Circumcised...
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:54:46 PM | | If I were to choose- I would choose UN-CIRCUMCISED!!!! The men seem to be much more sensitive because their head is not rubbing up against clothes all the time. They react better during sex. Plus it is just more fun to play with:) No matter what- if a women cares about a man, we accept him no matter his package... | |
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