| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 6:43:28 PM | | Your friends that said your concerns should have first been for the children's safety and not for the fine were right. I would not say you were a jerk but you were as too many are these days practicing a me first behavior. It is great that you offered the BBQ even though it sounds as though you were not too enthused about it. I would have probably told them we would have to make arrangements for another day as I was not prepared for 7 passengers. Then I would have pulled her aside for a serious talk and found out what her true intentions were. Surely she knew that springing 6 kids on an unsuspecting guy was not wise. I just don't think I could of let the kids down for their mothers bad judgment. More than once I have allowed stupid parents to use me a bit because I felt bad for the kids that are stuck with them for parents. Not that I'm assuming her a looser but she was definitely not being honest and forward with you. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 6:47:59 PM | / \ /\ /\
Oh, come on. "Me-first" behaviour? Please. It's definately going to be "me first" over a relative stranger who tried to trick me into something, and doesn't even have the common-sense to want her/his own children to survive a possible car crash. That was a strange woman. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 6:49:30 PM | Your initial reaction was normal, stay or run, you have no control over that and you did a great thing, nothing selfish about it. I wouldn't have gone along with her immediate phoning to the kids. She was cementing the deal but you need to be aware of Jerks like Her! Stand up more and don't let those type use you. Did the kids all look like they had the same Father? Got to wonder about stuff like that.
Good sign that someone is just too good to be true. Did she say everything you wanted to hear?
Shame on that lady for even thinking of doing what she was doing. What was she doing out at night time anyway? Looking for a Meal Ticket! Willprevale, you hit that on the nose, she's a User! She's also a Loser! Poor kids, that is not a good parent.
I feel sorry for you but happy too that you don't see her anymore. I also feel sorry for those kids, it's just a matter of time before one or more of them are injured in a car or else where. That was the third time you met and she doesn't know you much just as you didn't know her. Not to say you are but she could have been hitting on, you were targeted and hit on OP big time, anyone and they could have been into children for all she knows. Damaged all around there, that lady.
You a Jerk? No Way!
Eddie | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 6:52:35 PM | are you sure your name isn't Veedub???? Only he would come up with such a funny story | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 6:56:59 PM | ugh...people always say they want honesty...well you just gave it and now you're being called "selfish" and a "jerk".
(assuming that this story happened exactly as he stated):
The world is made up of different types of people, not everyone thinks the same nor should they be expected to think the same. The onnus was not on him to be responsible for the feelings of 6 children he has never met. The mother should feel bad for disappointing her children. They are her children and she put them in a situation that she should not have put them in.
People like that irritate me, dude you lucked out, who cares what people think of you, you didn't get stuck with an inconsiderate woman. She was like that from the start then imagine the world of trouble she (herself, not her children) would have given you.
She doesn't tell you she has 6 children.
She obviously knew you had a vehicle that only held six people because she had been in it, therefore not really caring what could happen to you if she put 6 kids in the van NOR did she consider the fact that there would not be enough seatbelts for all of her children THEREFORE being an irresponsible person (and to be honest somewhat of an idiot).
So people - you're calling this guy selfish and a jerk?? I think not...he offered up another solution to a problem she created and she still called him a jerk and the blame was put on him for the unhappiness of her children.
Major eye roll happening here. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 6:58:04 PM | And the moral of the story is........you should only date women you meet on POF, not pick them up in a bar.
(The preceding announcement is a joke, I repeat, a joke.) | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:02:37 PM | | YIKES.............You was kinder than I would have been in that same situation. Don't feel bad. You are actually lucky to not hear from her agaian. Count your blessings. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:08:43 PM | 1st of all , i really dont feel that you were really a jerk at all .just meeting her in the bar ,and not really knowing her , she could have been setting you up ,never know these days . common sense here .
i feel that she should of asked you first ,not get on phone and do that . that was very RUDE on her part , and honestly i would have done the same as you did , with kids its all about safety, ok ,if you did do it , who would pay for fines , her ,i doubt it . so you probably would have been stuck with ticket , the amount who knows ....so i really think you are not a jerk.... | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:14:45 PM | I hope you have not been jerking on our collective chain here. As you can see, everyone is on your side of this question. Its almost too bad this woman did not qualify for a Darwin Award before she condemned six innocent children with her stupidity.
A couple of points I would make. The first is get some new friends. If you have to go on a chat line to get sane feedback, you really need to question the intelligence of the people you are currently hanging with. Everyone that bothered to answer you here seemed to have no problem getting to the heart of the issue. What the hell is wrong with your friends?
Secondly, as a person who works in a sex-offender treatment center, I am glad to see that some people had the presence of mind to keep another reality in the front of their minds and responses. My point here is more for some of the other readers/posters - Ladies please do NOT let your guard down when it comes to your kids. Predators do not really have a particular look or obvious profile. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:21:34 PM | In my humble opinion, based on reading the forums of POF:
1) It is not customary to introduce kids on the first few dates. Puts nearly everyone under too much pressure.
2) It is not recommended to introduce kids to someone who their mother does not know well enough to not be a danger. Meeting a guy 2 times in a bar is not exactly what I would call a good sign that the guy is safe. Did she ask what you did? Does she have a home #? You could be anything dangerous to those kids.
3) It would have been more appropriate for her to ask if her kids could have come too.
4) She said a couple of kids. A couple is two people. Not six. Your car could accommodate all of you, if she had said how many were coming.
5) Having to deal with 6 kids, rather than 4, is a MASSIVE DEAL. Thinking a single thought of getting out after a shock like that is not a big deal at all. If you had NOT thought any problem at all, I would have surmised you are calm enough to handle a nuclear emergency.
6) You could have asked if they needed car seats. But she had enough for the couple of kids she said.
7) If you had been stopped by a police car, the cost of the date would have been in excess of $800. It would be unfair of her to expect you to pay for it. Since she didn't warn you of the extra kids, that cost should have been absorbed by her. It would be unfair of you to expect her to take the risk of paying $800, when she has 6 kids to clothe and feed.
8) You were being a gentleman by refusing to take them because of the possible danger as well. It's a very real problem if the car in front stops short, you have to brake sharply, and the kids are thrown through the windscreen. At the very least, the 2 small children w/out child seats could have gotten whiplash. Possibly much worse.
9) You offered an alternative. They refused.
You were NOT a jerk.
You were a GENTLEMAN.
SHE was a jerkette.
She could have just gone with you, and then asked if you would like to hold a barbecue at her place and meet the kids. She could then have asked you if you could take them out somewhere. You seem like you probably would have done that, and then everyone would have gotten what they wanted.
Impatience of this woman cost her kids a nice time at the lake, and probably a good boyfriend too. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:25:30 PM | I can't believe you were such a good sport.
I have refused to go out with someone when they wanted to include their child. (that's ONE child).
You're either a saint or a push-over... you better toughen up a bit and stop listening to your friends. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:26:39 PM | OK... First ...Why in the hell didn't you ask about her kids.. AT LEAST how many she had???? A woman says.." I have children.... " you ask these things.. you could have avoided the whole terrible scene.
Really... She rushed it....usually meaning she is desperate and blindly stupid.. you could have been a predator... on the other hand you walked right into an ambush... she is looking for a man.. who will adopt.. SIX children.. I am sorry a woman with that many children better be rich or a saint...because dating her means an instant ARMY to deal with....
I honestly think you were a "jerk" to NOT assume the children were a HUGE factor and need to discuss them when she first mentioned it. You should have pushed for more information.... or were you looking for just fun? | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:32:38 PM | | My initial reaction to the situation is in regards to the emotional well being of the woman's children. If she was willing to drag her children, no matter how many, on a date with a man that she was not seriously invested in, than what kind of a woman or mother is she? Children have no place in the dating realm until such time as a serious, long term relationship is established. And even then...slowly and with great respect. This woman's actions were extremely self-centered, irresponsible, and exceedingly rude. I think you handled things well, given the circumstance. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:34:16 PM | Nope!
Possible options:
* Rent minivan
* Tell her upfront the car was too small when U learned she had 6 kids.
* Do as you did. You are correct ethically. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:37:52 PM | | You did the right thing. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:41:11 PM | You did not invite her children to the lake, she invited them for you. And why is she putting her children in the position to spend an entire day with a man she does not know? She intentionally put you on the spot by asking her daughter before you had a chance to suggest that the invitation had been for her, not she and her kids because she obviously had determined that you would feel like a heel if you said something.
Your motivations were not selfish because you were concerned about the safety of her children and it is not like she is going to pony up the money for the $600 in fines you would have been issued if you had her children in your vehicle. She played you and it blew up in her face, that is not your responsibility. You suggested an alternative that was not good enough for them so they obviously were less interested in spending time with a nice person than they were hitching a ride to the lake.
While your first concern was the fine rather than safety but you are not a parent; the woman should have appreciated that you had the sense to think of it at all. The whole situation was her fault from beginning to end. She had been in your vehicle and she knew that it was too small. The only vehicle that had the capacity to hold all of her children and two additional people was a full-sized or mini-van. Just because she is willing to risk the lives of her children it does not follow that you should as well.
You do not have a responsibility to the children because it was the mother that allowed them to be put in a position of disappointment, not you. She should not have even considered putting her children in a vehicle without adequate safety belts. You determined all of the negative possibilities in under five minutes, she had a week to consider what she had done and make sure there would be no problems.
Sleep peacefully. You are not a moron. You are not a doormat. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:42:00 PM |
are you sure your name isn't Veedub???? Only he would come up with such a funny story
VERY astute!!!! Well, ya never know! However it would be closer to our friend Vee if the story mentioned vaginas or breasts.
Anyone ever think of the legal issues here, aside from law enforcement? Looks like it could have been a set up, and chances are one or two of the kids would get a scratch or a bump. She'd likely sue you. Bet she was hoping for an accident so she could collect from you and make a lot of money. $15,000 x 6 kids......whoops!
She wasn't pissed about the trip - she was ticked because you called her bluff. It wasnt about making the kids happy or having fun together. It was all about milking you for exactly what she wanted. She invited them, not you. You didnt disappoint them, but she did.
If this story is true, then someone dodged the bullet- big time! | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:43:24 PM | I asked some men in a forum how, by their definition, I could tell the difference between a genuine nice guy and a jerk. One guy put it the best, "A nice guy is aware of the possibility that he might act like a jerk from time to time." A real jerk can't fathom the possibility that he is anything but a nice guy. Just the fact that you can publicly ask if you'd been a jerk, almost unequivocally proves that you're not.
The fact that you cared about the safety of your date's children more than the mother herself says a lot about who's really the "jerk" in this situation. Jerks are reckless with the welfare and emotional well-being of others. Being willing to question the merits of your own behavior is a sign of great humility. I can't say enough about how important I think that is in our culture. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:50:19 PM | I find myself asking:
What in the name of God is a woman with six kids doing sitting in a bar all night long... with no transportation?
A jerk would have stayed in the situation. Yer a hero in my book.  | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 8:06:14 PM | OMGosh...what a JERK!
You should have made two trips...or rented a van...or tied a couple of kids to the roof?!
Of course I am kidding...NO...YOU WERE NOT A JERK...unless considering for one millisecond if you were a jerk, constitutes being one?! ;) Silly! | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 8:10:17 PM |
Bet she was hoping for an accident so she could collect from you and make a lot of money. $15,000 x 6 kids......whoops!
Great just more crap to worry a chick might pull on me thanks for the heads up.
OP you did everything right dont beat yourself up which I dont think you are but just in case dont. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 8:17:09 PM | Thanks everyone. I should respond. Let's see . . .
I know of Veedub, but no, I'm not him. Being in my late 40's, I've been on many many dates over the years. Almost all of them were pleasant, but not interesting enough to mention to other people. I've also had about ten very strange ones (ask me about the Cat Lady, well, perhaps another thread), this particular date was one of the strange ones.
Most of my friends say I did the correct thing in not taking the kids - they just questioned my motives, saying I should of thought of the risk to the children before my initial thoughts of fines and such. That is why they thought I was a jerk. Or rather, being a jerk this one time.
When she mentioned the kids, I figured she meant two. She then immediately changed the subject to something else. The conversation shift seemed natural at the time - it did seem odd, later, once I thought about it.
She said she went out one night a week. She didn't appear to be a heavy drinker. Never know, though.
For the person who felt sorry for me. Why? This didn't harm me in any way. I did feel bad for the kids, though.
That's all I've got, for now. The responses have been interesting. I originally thought the responses would be evenly divided: 50/50. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 8:18:29 PM | my opinion
you were not a jerk
she shouldnt have jumped to conclusion that you were inviting everyone out to picnic.
way i read what you said, you invited her and she invited everyone. she was in the wrong.
six kids with 4 needing carseats, if you arent driving fullsize van are equivalent, should not have even considered that many bodies.
she was wrong and if anyone was acting like an insensitive jerk it was her.
you handled everything correctly so dont feel bad. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 8:22:14 PM | | My friends would have laughed if you had done it. Make your friends read these posts and see if they dont change their opinions. Problem is this kinda stuff does happen likley more than we would like to know. | |
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| Was I a jerk?
Posted: 7/27/2007 8:23:36 PM | | You weren't the jerk, she was. There is no excuse for putting a child in a car without a carseat/booster (whichever is appropriate agewise) The evidence is in and it's indisputable! Believe me, those kids are in for a lifetime of dissapointments with that mom, that day will be a blip on the radar. | |
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