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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/19/2007 6:44:02 PM | Mr H2O
You are my hero. That was a funny funny post!
It is about personal choice and best nutrition for self and ones own needs. Mine include animal proteins, and I do all of the work for them myself... | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/19/2007 11:22:34 PM | H2O FUNNY FUNNY!!!!
I am a member of P.E.T.A.
People Eating Tasty Animals--but I do raise my own beef--so I know it is BSE free, by the way, there is an MD in colorado who has developed a test (blood based) to test for BSE in live animals now, and for Chronic WAsting disease in deer and elk--I hope it becomes universal--should if the USDA was doing its job!
Chow down! | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/19/2007 11:30:43 PM | | Ironically, if cattle hadn't been eating dead people, BSE wouldn't exist! It's a human disease in the first place :S Cattle seem to have picked it up as a result of Indian [non] burial practices. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/20/2007 1:27:42 AM | Hello H2O,
I know some people are militant about veganism, however I am not one. Nor have i said i was a strict vegan. I still eat eggs from time to time. I also take supplements. We can only do as best as we can. In my replies i've only addressed the issues at hand and only with the reasoning of offing meat eaters to show the absurdity of your argument to off sentient beings for consumptions. The native Americans long before our modern brothers used to pray to mother earth and to the spirit of the animal in which it took very ritualistically believing that they had a sacred agreement with each other. I'd not have a problem with meat eating that treated animals as sentient beings and felt the loss of the animal.
I actually wanted to start a thread on being vegan however from the responses here i can see that the world will have to be in far worse shape for people to understand. But at the rate of things that won't be to long. Eat meat eat as much as you can stuff in your face, feed it to your kids and everyone you love... The health system will be able to help you when your health fails you. I hear they've even developed a pill to get rid of cholesterol so you can do it longer. I don't find humor in people ganging up on others to be right however its to be expected isn't it and even encouraged by others... But that is on another thread about bullying.
A personal choice is a choice that only affects ones self. This isn't what is happening here. Because your choice, Limestone_Lady excluded, affects everyone else. That doesn't seem very personal to me. If i ran around hunting neighborhood dogs and said i needed to do it to survive people would think i'm mad. Oddly enough not eating meat produces the same effect... If food was a personal choice how come we get upset when people kill bears for their paws? Or sharks for their fins? Oddly enough we have mowed our forests down to graze cattle... And if we would of used the land in our own country to feed our country we would not have room to live. The only reason it seems ok is because we are chopping down the rain forest to do it now and well thats in someone else's country. That personal choice has destroyed 70% of the worlds rain forest, how less personal can that choice be?
If your going to eat meat do what Limestone_Lady does. Take responsibility for it. Anything less is not a personal choice. And the source of BSE is unknown and if they didn't feed them their own remains and that of other animals they wouldn't of been exposed to human remains.
crazylilting  | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/20/2007 3:19:42 AM | The source of BSE is known. The reason bovine spongiform encephalopathy causes modified Kreuzfel-Jacob disease in humans is because it is itself a derivative of KJD. Cattle in India have free reign, and their is a tendency to burn bodies or otherwise dispose of them incompletely aboveground, leaving human remains to get into whatever the cattle might graze or drink. MKJD is a known result of BSE, and BSE has been serologically traced to KJD.
In any case, the problem isn't with your choices. It's your preaching. You make good points, but they get lost in the rabid way you present them and your lack of willingness to see alternate views.
I personally don't eat much of anything, though I certainly don't eat the volume of meat that some do. The beef I eat, however, is usually grown here and largely lives at pasture or on the range, range that was once occupied by wild cattle [Bison].
Rainforest beef? I hope everyone can avoid that. It's highly ineffective, and for whatever reason, the Brazilian government can't seem to stop the illegal deforestation. You're not, however, likely to see everyone living on communes raising their personal livestock any time soon. You also have a somewhat skewed and rose-colored view of native lifestyles. They may have revered and thanked the animals, but the Bison were stampeded off cliffs, then the survivors were finished off. You don't think a seal or a whale dies quickly from a harpoon, do you? Harpoons are meant to catch and hold, and the animal can swim until it tires or drowns. A slaughterhouse may be more impersonal, but it's a good deal quicker.
So where do we stand?
-Animal protein is part of a normal human diet.
-Some people [and nations] eat far too much meat for their needs or health.
-Intensive farming of animals causes environmental damage [sometimes, though much of it is due to poor practices].
-Raising of animals uses land and vegetation which would produce a much greater amount of useful vegetable food
-There are already far too many people. Whether any more are fed is irrelevant. There need to be fewer survivors, not more.
-Raising personal food sources is not a reasonable expectation for many people, though supplementing is certainly possible as is local sourcing. Farming will likely continue forever. If you can choose what you consider to be better sources, you should.
-There are many other human causes of environmental damage. Be aware of them and try to reduce your impact. If you can't cut in one area, cut in another.
I'm sure I've missed many things, but I need to make lunch, nap, and go to work. And feed the animals. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/20/2007 5:20:43 AM | I'm sorry my point of view isn't palatable. It doesn't change the facts just because i'm saying them. Nor was i preaching, merely engaging in debate countering one persons reasoning with their own thread of logic.
And my view of the native Americans are not skewed at all. I spent a decade within the Native Americans communities in Canada. My uncle by marriage was a medicine man and i personally pursued native spirituality for many years. The Inuit did not go about mass murdering wales and only took what they needed to survive. One soul (the whale) fed an entire community and it was shared with all its people. And the white folk killed off the buffalo as well as tried to wipe out the native Indian race as well.
And i'd love to know your source for your stance on BSE as i've tried to find confirmation on that but haven't found any. I've been careful to back up any information i've shared with credible and undeniable sources that have been completely ignored. I have never said that a vegan diet is the end all be all, although it is my personal choice. I don't see how anyones personal choice has to infringe on others rights to the simple things like fresh water unpolluted air and untouched ecosystems that sustain a vast amount of the air we breathe. Your right people don't need to live on communes etc. But promoting local organic and respectful slaughtering of ones food would be better then being completely ignorant of the facts and belligerent when they are pointed out.
There is huge taxes on cigarettes and gas because of the issues they create yet non for one of the worst polluters of all, meat production. Due to land missuses and even our vegetables don't have the proper nutrients in them so no matter what diet anyone chooses dietary supplements are recommended. If i was addicted to a vegetable that did the same amount of damage meat production did you'd be a bit upset to. I have a right to be upset and challenge the beliefs of someone who is contributing to such a huge problem. Just as you have that right.
crazylilting | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/20/2007 6:00:18 AM | It is not feasible for everyone to live on little plots of land and farm what they need. Our economy needs the metropolitan areas for all the many needs that happen in the cities. Agriculture supports the cities, and it really is best to buy locally grown, and not the imported. What I raise supports my family (many of whom live in metropolitan areas,) myself, and leaves me some to trade with others for things I am unable/unsuccessful in producing for myself. It is not a life style plausible or even possible for everyone.
Funny enough, your argument crazylilting, about "no matter what diet anyone chooses dietary supplements are recommended." is bunk. I do not need supplements, nor do those who eat a proper balanced diet. I'll trade my mutton for bread from a bakery that uses locally milled grains, sometimes I buy the grains myself, but the baker makes far better bread than I could ever hope to. Whole grains. Many farmers near me grow the crops I do not. Those same farmers are happy to trade for fish from my trout pond. No sprays on my produce, no chemicals or hormones added to my meats.
For the most part the world is overpopulated. We do not need to feed more folk, but rather less. Canada is one country who can easily grow and sustain its population with the farming available. Many countries eat our exported foods.
I am still dubious about animal excretion being more harmful than oil production and uses. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 83 | |
| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/20/2007 6:00:55 AM | Crazy,
It's all about consumption moderation and not going overboard in any one direction.
Many in the USA are all about convenience, quick fixes, and stressful lifestyles.
I have little doubt many would benefit from more plates of vegetables.
When I go to the farmers market to go shopping, my friends ask why I make a special trip.
Being able to look face to face at the person who raised the animals or crops while
buying the items makes me feel a little better about my choices.
Progress in society isn't always good.
For the Inuit , ecology, hunting and culture are synonymous.
They also knew a thing or two about kayaks . | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/20/2007 6:13:38 AM | If it were possible it believe that eating meat did no harm and caused no suffering, as in if there were a meat-tree, I'd not have issues with consuming it -- other than growing accustomed to the idea again, because after so many years I don't even register it as edible. I liked the taste of meat, I grew up not questioning that there was any other way to eat and not thinking of the rights or wrongs. It was just normality and I didn't question it until I was 15. But what I learned demanded change. I gave up meat at age 16 -- as soon as my mum allowed me to make that choice. For me it was a clear cut choice between choosing to eat food that involved animals suffering and choosing to eat food that didn't involve suffering. It was a short step from vegetarianism to learning about veganism and at 18 or 19, giving up dairy because how could I justify contributing to that industry, the way it currently runs...
I've learned a lot since then and change continues to be demanded of me as I learn more. With knowledge comes power, with power comes responsibility... When we know more we try to do better. I feel that the choices we make are very personal and very emotional. It's 17 years since I became vegetarian and I've never been militant about it, unless my contributions to this thread count. I understand that other people are wired differently from me and have different priorities. After visiting a fabulous sea-aquarium with my brother, his instinct was hunger and his choice was a seafood risotto containing baby octopuses of the kind we'd just watched swimming about. It was just one more example to me of how different we can be. (Interestingly, his views are now changing and he eats veggie more often than not -- this is nothing to do with me.)
One thing I can't help noticing is that often all you need to do is say that you are vegetarian, let alone make enquiries about the availability of vegan food options within earshot of anyone, and people are triggered to attack your choice, even if you make no comment on their choice and try to be invisible about yours. The hardest thing for me about choosing a vegan/veggie diet is the fuss that other people make about it. It's less bad now as it's not so uncommon and so many publications support the choice for environmental and health reasons -- but still, it seems like meat eaters want to attack and ridicule the choice, even when they can't produce one good argument as to why it's not a good choice.
There are all kinds of other good choices: buying fairtrade, supporting projects to educate and strengthen communities in poverty-stricken areas, putting solar panels on your roof, composting and recycling, boycotting exploitative companies, doing voluntary work for community environment projects.
I think that it takes a lot of energy to make any one of these positive choices and so a lot of passion is necessarily involved. It upsets the person who has spent a fortune on solar power to see their neighbour having the gas central heating on full blast and all the windows open. It hurts because each of us knows that we're just a drop in the ocean and it makes our efforts feel that much less, makes us feel undermined to see how much damage others can do compared with how little positive effect our very best efforts can bring. It upsets a person who has not invested in solar power to keep hearing about their ecological footprint being too big. It hurts us to know we're part of the problem.
I feel that we all need to be more supportive of each other. All of us are part of the problem. All of us have different strengths and weaknesses and priorities. I want to do more, much more than I do, but I find it difficult. I am doing a lot of research, finding out that my credit card company is unethical, and switching; getting started with composting; trying to recycle more and to buy local/organic; researching solar options for my computer; and the biggest issues of all surround my work at the local college and my heartfelt efforts to make a positive difference to young people.
It's not pleasant to be labelled as mentally ill for simply being vegan. Or being called a gorilla for caring enough about the sources of my food to make choices to exclude some items. But it's clear that the person making these comments has some serious emotional triggers in this area, as is natural when there is internal debate. I think that one difference between the contributors on this thread is worth commenting on: there are those who provide evidence to back their statements and those who do not. In psychology a person who is "fully functioning" is the one who is open to experience without feeling threatened and needing to deny or distort the experience in order to sustain their false perception of themselves (Carl Rogers, Freud e.g. explanation at http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/rogers.html).
Do I have OCD, am I a gorilla with my whole existence focused around food, am I in denial? Maybe I'm too mad to even judge, but I saw a programme on gorillas recently and it seems their focus is not around food but around each other, their family, tribe or community. Taking care of each other, being supportive. I think maybe we could learn a little from the gorillas (just a little).
PS. I learned that gorillas regularly eat termites, but I don't fancy it so I think I'll stick with getting my B12 from a vitamin. Each to our own... but I think that we could do much more if we'd be more supportive and less competitive and defensive. It's not easy and we'll all stumble and fall down at times, but if we realised that we are all actually on the same side, that not one of us wants to be part of the problem and that every one of us is, and that some are able to do more than others but that it's not a competition... if we could be supportive of every positive effort made and not defensive or derisive... I think that we'd find the strength to completely change things around.
Vegans may be extremist nuts, but if people were more supportive it wouldn't take so much strength to make that positive choice. Even for just one day a week, people could eat vegan with the full support of everyone around them and no snide remarks about home-knitted soya yoghurt. Well, I can dream *smiles*. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 85 | |
| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/20/2007 7:55:33 AM | Progress happens, it's a force that bulldozes everything, the good and the bad.
It has no soul, it has no captain, it just keeps moving forward, it's un-stoppable.
Mass produced food sucks, it has no flavor, it's just bulked up crap.
It not an "all or nothing world" type world . That's where my sarcasm kicks in, hard !
Is it that certain vegans choose not to belief what medical science has discovered,
and only pick and choose at what they think the facts should be ?
***PROOF *** QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM***
http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-interview1a.shtml
I already paraphrased a large part of it in my prior posts.
Please - do your own homework and research to continue the quest .
I attempted to make peace, find some common ground, but vegans don't share apparently.
Perhaps it has something to do with being hungry all the time, just a guess.
I support my local farmers, I buy their home grown produce -perhaps you missed my prior posts.
Personally I'll take a bucket of little itty bitty wild blueberries anyday over those
golf ball sized watered down pieces of blue pulp I can buy all year round.
Ease off on the militant message.
My gag reflex is amazing, it protects me from swallowing sharpened swords.
Use a little raw honey , some amasake, some stevia, with the raw yogurt
and the message will once again become more palatable to the masses.
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/20/2007 9:25:03 AM | Although BSE doesn't actually have any relevance to the thread, here are some relevant BSE sources:
http://www.vegsource.com/talk/madcow/messages/1001288.html
http://www.sulm.ch/PDF/pipette_1_04/BSE.pdf
http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.asp?issn=0022-3859;year=2006;volume=52;issue=3;spage=223;epage=225;aulast=Chatterjee
http://www.ecofriends.org/reports/madcow.pdf
http://www.rense.com/general68/hypothesisthatBSE.htm
The last one provides a decent summary. Basically, the only alternate theory is derivation from sheep scrapie, which has been refuted serologically. The ultimate human source is most likely, next to spontaneous origin. The Indian source is reasonable and unrefuted, though the ultimate source is probably indeterminable.
The following provides an interesting alternate transmission, though it has little implications regarding the origin of BSE.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-4362.2003.00345.x?cookieSet=1&journalCode=ijd
Basically, you can inherit encephalopathy, get it from bug bites, get it from infected beef, or spontaneously create it in your own body. The ability to develop the disease also seems to have a genetic component at least some of the time.
Regarding native Americans, the point was missed. Whatever respect or ritual might be associated with the kill, it doesn't actually have much influence on the cruelty of the kill. It may not be deliberate, but it is worse. I too have lived in native communities, but I don't see the relevance. Native spirituality is completely irrelevant, particularly since it doesn't seem to have positive effect on how the animal dies. I reiterate: "respectful slaughter" is better achieved in a slaughterhouse than in most traditional ways.
The white man killing the bison and the natives is irrelevant - the point was that cattle in much of the world occupy habitat which was previously occupied by wild cattle [the differences between wisent, bison, and other cattle are small enough they are often all lumped together]. The use of a whale to feed the entire community is again irrelevant. A cow still feeds a community - they're just not neighbors. The biggest issue with cattle would be the South American slash-and-burn of rainforest in order to illegally and inefficiently raise cattle on land which rapidly becomes depleted and useless. Much of the market is in Europe and the Middle East, ironically because it's range-fed and hormone-free! Goes to show you the results of "educated" consumers - they're half-educated and solve one evil by creating another!
http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_brazilian_beef/
Lastly; much of the issue, as I see it, isn't the content of the arguments here so much as it is the presentation of those arguments. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/20/2007 9:44:06 AM | Some people justify eating meat by saying that
God put these animals here on Earth to service us.
Still others say, look at our physical make up.
We have incisors! We were meant to eat meat.
Other will say, we are on the top of the food chain,
it is the way of nature.
I say that when a more advanced species comes along
that likes eating humans, not one of us will accept
their line of reasoning that they are higher on the food chain,
or physically superior, or that the Creator put us here for them to eat.
None of us will go happily to the slaughter, beaten down
by their superior logic.
That being said....
I love fish, chicken, turkey, and shrimpies!!!!!! | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/23/2007 12:50:20 AM |
Aside from cultural issues, why do people eat cows and pigs when they dont eat dogs and cats?
Aside from 4, what does 2 + 2 =? | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/23/2007 1:03:33 AM |
Aside from cultural issues, why do people eat cows and pigs when they dont eat dogs and cats?
In other cultures they do eat Cats and Dogs, and horses and other animals... Having travled to many different parts of the world while I was serving in the Military and having eaten food from street vedors in many different countries, I would be willing to bet that I have eaten cat or dog or even rat. I can tell you for certain that I have eaten Kangaroo, and Aligator and Crockadile. Not to mention many of the other wild game meats that are availble to us here in North America. Here in Alaska, Moose is very common and beside Chicken is probably my next favorite meat to eat.
While driving through Canada on my way to Alaska I saw a Billboard that read "There's room for all of God's creatures, On the plate right next to the Mashed Potatos" It was of course an advertisement for a resturant.
For Lack of a better reason I like to eat meat because I like the taste of it... and I am sure that I am not alone in my thinking | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/23/2007 7:25:12 AM | Cats and dogs are genetically engineered for purposes other than harvesting their meat - cats for catching rodents and other vermin which spread disease, and dogs for tracking, and taking the animals we eat for meat, and protecting the herds we raise for meat. That's why there are so many breeds - they don't occur in nature, they were created by humans for select purposes.
Horses are the same, and are generally bred for their strength, which makes for tough, stringy meat.
Of course as mentioned, there is the cultural component which is huge - people do raise these animals as a food source in other countries.
Hemp is edible, but it is way more profitable and efficient to grow it as and industrial crop (ie for ropen and textiles) than as a food crop.
Just because we eat meat, it doesnt naturally follow that if it's meat, we should eat it.
But asking why we eat meat at all is like asking why we still build with stone, or arm ourselves against the threat of foriegn hostility. It's just the way we are. That, and some creatures exist only to be part of the food chain. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/23/2007 11:42:43 PM |
Aside from 4, what does 2 + 2
It's integral to the definition of 4, that 2+2=4.
That's what 4 is! | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/24/2007 1:03:12 AM | I couldnt eat dog, cat (I hate cats but I still couldnt eat it) or horse.... I just cant get my head around it.
On the other hand I love rabbit, boar, pigeon n duck. God knows why we dont eat dogs n stuff.
On holiday my boyfriend ate Chickens feet. That made me stomach churn. Particularly the thought that they've stood in their own dump all their lives.... Uuurhh. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/24/2007 1:12:28 PM | if we grew up eating dogs and cats and keeping cows and pigs for pets it would be the otherway around
there is abosolutely no moral difference between eating a cow or say a kitten | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/24/2007 11:48:41 PM | | I find that no matter how much I eat, if I don't eat flesh, I am not satisfied. I like the biting, tearing and chewing of flesh to feel sated. There are rare exceptions where I would feel satisfied having a vegetarian meal. I could get full on Marie Callendar's vegetables and French onion soup. Farmer Boys makes a wonderful fried Zucchini. And I have gotten full on mashed potatoes with Portobello mushrooms which tastes like meat to me. I haven't tried the Portobello burgers yet, but I'm sure I'll love it. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/25/2007 5:26:02 AM |
Aside from cultural issues, why do people eat cows and pigs when they dont eat dogs and cats?
Actually, people do. Visit Asia sometime.
In Western society, people generally don't eat dogs of cats. In modern society, cats and dogs are considered pets and therefore eating them is a bit of a tabboo.
In previous times, cats were excellent rodent control methods and dogs wre bred for their obedience and far more useful as controlled animals than as food (like hearding sheep, guarding homes, helping the blind is still something they do). Hence, they were considered far less useful as food, especially when you have much larger, meater and more docile pigs and cows.
morally speaking it should be the same, right?
Morality is subjective, it differs from person to person. One person may think it's wrong to eat a cat or dog, another may think it's just fine. So rather than try to determine why on the basis of morality, one should seek logical reasons for the situation.
Hence, my above explanation.
Apart from the fact that we find cats or dogs cute, do they have a more developed sense of pain than cows or other animals we eat?
I do not think so.
What does pain have to do with eating animals? Once their flesh is being consumed by humans, they have been dead for a long time.
In fact, humans are (usually) quite humane when compared to the animal kingdom. If you want to feel sympathy for animals being eaten, watch a collection of carnivores eating a young herbivore alive while it's still screaming for it's mother while said mother is standing by helplessly. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 97 | |
| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/25/2007 9:46:29 AM | "Kill it and Grill it" - so the brain can continue to evolve, the body remains strong, and so that the human entity can transfer genes to its offspring.
Let’s start with the chemistry of soybeans.
They contain a variety of harmful substances (such as powerful enzyme inhibitors)
which block the action of trypsin and other enzymes necessary for protein digestion.
Cooking does not completely destroy these anti-nutrients and can cause severe
gastrointestinal distress, reduced protein digestion, chronic amino acid uptake, and
even cancer. Since protein and amino acids are the building blocks of life, this
information should be taken seriously.
Soybeans are also high in an organic acids called phytates.
They block the uptake of essential minerals in the small intestine such as magnesium,
iron, and especially zinc. The only way to significantly reduce the phytate content of
soybeans is to properly ferment them for long periods of time. That’s why miso,
tempeh, tamari, and shoyu are nourishing forms of the soybean,
---but only if properly fermented---
Soy is an industry folks - a megaMillion $$$ a year industry of greed.
Soy has climbed the social ladder from cheap food for the poor
to expensive health food for the affluent.
*****THINK why it is pushed to hard, so someone can get rich from a cheap crop *****
Part 2 - Plants defend themselves
Some scientists believe that plants make phytoestrogens as a defense mechanism to
stop or limit predation by plant-eating animals (Ehrlich and Raven 1964; Guillette et al. 1995; Hughes 1988).
Instead of protecting themselves with thistles or thorns or tasting bad, these plants use chemicals that affect the predatory animal's fertility.
Although using estrogen-mimicking compounds for protection may sound far-fetched,
it makes sense from an evolutionary stance.
Many real-life examples support the theory that plants and animals change together, or co-evolve, over time.
The explanation goes something like this: to avoid predation,
plants produce compounds (phytoestrogens) that limit an herbivores reproduction.
Thus, the predator's population decreases and more plants can prosper.
http://e.hormone.tulane.edu/learning/phytoestrogens.html
Do yourself a favor ___skip the hype__skip the advertising__ and do some research !
The internet has huge amounts of real science, from really smart people
- the catch, it's not on FOX, MSNBC, or on the front cover of Cosmo, etc. etc.
Mr H2O
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/25/2007 2:46:51 PM |
Do yourself a favor ___skip the hype__skip the advertising__ and do some research !
The internet has huge amounts of real science, from really smart people
I agree with the above statement there are two sides to the story easily googled *smile*
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 99 | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/26/2007 2:33:47 AM | Hardly common at all. Other then we are human. I'm trying to be polite because you've clearly lost the plot. The sites you've cited are all hype and no substance at all so i was agreeing that it is wise to do some research, real research. Even the bit on soy, my goodness, you seemed to leave out that Dr Mike Fitzpatrick is a director of the Weston A Price Foundation, a body that promotes traditional farming and the consumption of butter, eggs, whole milk, meat and saturated animal fat. It is also responsible for a long-running campaign against soya.
And further: "30-40% of all infants in the US are raised on soya formula", but doesn't point out that, if soya is so harmful to babies, then this massive sample would prove it. It doesn't. It's one thing to feed experimental animals massive doses of soya isolates, but human studies show a different result. In 1998, one study (Klein) looked at soya formulas, found no risk to infants and found them to be a nutritionally complete feeding option. Another study (Strom, 2001) looked at the effect of soya on reproductive health and found none.
it would be extraordinary for any organization to promote cow's milk as a better alternative to soya when it contains 35 different hormones and 11 growth factors, which can be up to 20,000 times stronger than phytoestrogens, and have been linked to cancers of the breast, ovaries, prostate and colon
cited from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1839434,00.html
And i really don't want to get into it about the other link you sent me in another post of some religious nut who thinks people are brainwashed because they are vegan or may believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. I've found further sitings on soy from the FDA and other reputable sources that are more neutral ground for argument but the point here is your just trying to get a rise out of me. Like i said if you feel the need to eat meat do so but don't deny its negative impact on health and on the environment. Attacking another's diet just because its in opposition to yours is ridiculous. I'm not attacking you because yours is different then mine i'm attacking it because your defending it on grounds that are not ethical and ignore the effects it has. If you just said I eat meat because i like it and i'm not going to quit i'd be fine with that because that is closer to the truth and is justified by a personal choice, which can't be argued at all.
When you know better you will do better simple as that, but spreading propaganda that isn't true can mislead people and compound the problems that already exists. Arguing the merits of diet are ridiculous as our knowledge on that changes very quickly. what is scientifically correct today may change next week. How much protein what kind of protein, to mix or not. its always changing. So we change our diets based on what we learn is good for us and the environment, thankfully it is also tasty. The original posters question asked about the ethical and moral decisions of eating meat. And this is what i have addressed in my replies. If you really want to compare a meat and vegan diet start a thread on that and i'd be happy to continue this there.
And i just wanted to address this statement from another poster :
What does pain have to do with eating animals? Once their flesh is being consumed by humans, they have been dead for a long time.
If we didn't want that frozen sausage that was in a freezer in some supermarket do you think the slaughter house would want to kill animals? Please educate yourself on what really goes on in slaughter houses and then ask if it really matters to you. I used to raise my own meat until i had to kill it. Its a whole different thing when its a slab of processed meat on a shelf then having to pick up a chicken and kill it... When your removed from the source you have no idea how much animals suffer.
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