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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 101 | |
| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/26/2007 7:07:53 AM | Someone has to have the guts to draw in the reigns and present an
oppossing view against the cult that is all things soy.
Everything in moderation - a little soy, a little meat, a little caffiene, a little sugar,etc.
Excess in any one direction will throw the body for a loop.
What causes one to seek out an excess type mentality - addiction and obsession !! | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 102 | |
| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/26/2007 7:56:51 AM | Cult = An organization that uses intensive indoctrination techniques to recruit and
maintain members into a totalist ideology.
The cult manipulates the environment to 'set up' the recruit to trap him or herself in a black and white mindset.
If a group teaches you that your all of your relationships with your family and friends
are somehow toxic, evil, or even just impeding your development, it immediately
cuts you off from all of your traditional 'sounding boards.'
You don't notice that right away, because the group is right there to replace them.
We are all dependent, albeit to varying degrees, on feedback to evaluate our beliefs and behavior
-- controlling that feedback is an incredibly powerful technique to change behavior, particularly when the recruit is unaware that it is happening.
Vegans often tend toward cult like personalities.
Meat eaters are just more fun to be around . | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/26/2007 8:26:15 AM |
And i just wanted to address this statement from another poster :
What does pain have to do with eating animals? Once their flesh is being consumed by humans, they have been dead for a long time.
If we didn't want that frozen sausage that was in a freezer in some supermarket do you think the slaughter house would want to kill animals? Please educate yourself on what really goes on in slaughter houses and then ask if it really matters to you. I used to raise my own meat until i had to kill it. Its a whole different thing when its a slab of processed meat on a shelf then having to pick up a chicken and kill it... When your removed from the source you have no idea how much animals suffer.
Funny, guess what? I have raised my own meat and had to kill it to fill our freezer.
Just because you're squeamish on the issue doesn't mean other people are. I've helped raise cows and pigs for slaughter on our personal farm. Those animals had a great life and we treated them very well for long as they had. Just because you're going to kill them at some point for food doesn't mean you should treat them badly. If anything, it was just another reason to make their lives as enjoyable and pleasant as possible.
But there was no misconceptions or misunderstanding on our part, they were being raised to be consumed.
I have no problem with this issue whatsoever. That's life; in order to survive, other life must die, whether it's plant or animal. If I were to be attacked by a bear or shark, I would not hate that animal for doing what it needs to do to survive. I'd fight for my life like any other living being, and quite possible die painfully before being eaten myself.
But so what? I'm not going to apologize because humans are smart enough and strong enough to be on top of the food chain. That's life. Get over it. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 104 | |
| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/26/2007 10:29:01 AM | Wow-there is even a webpage set up by the New Zealand government AGAINST SOY based products.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
****Make friends with your local organic animal farmer and eat some meat.*****
Soy is known to contain an array of potent chemical toxins.
High levels of phytic acid, trypsin inhibitors, toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines are all present in soy products.
Phytoestrogens that disrupt endocrine function and are potent antithyroid agents
are present in vast quantities in soy, including the potentially devastating isoflavone Genistein.
Infants exclusively fed soy-based formula have 13,000 to 22,000 times more estrogen compounds
in their blood than babies fed milk-based formula,
the estrogenic equivalent of at least five birth control pills per day.
Infant soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease.
Soy is linked to infertility, breast cancer, hypothyroidism, thyroid cancer, and many other disorders.
The soy industry is one of the world's most wealthy and powerful multi-billion dollar industries.
The result is an industry that will systematically steamroll anybody that dares suggest there may be problems with the darling soy.
When questioned on the safety of soy, a representative of Protein Technologies International said there exists :
"...teams of lawyers to crush dissenters, could buy scientists to give evidence,
owned television channels and newspapers, could divert medical schools
and could even influence governments..."
The trouble with modern soy products is that fast industrial processing does not
equate to historical methods of fermenting "for two summers" .
The method of modern get-rich-quick corporations is simply to leave these well-known natural toxins in our products.
"TOFU accelerates brain weight loss in aging users,
the more soy you use - the more it impacts your mental abilities,
soy acts like a drug, not a food."
True Health, the magazine of Carotec Inc., Naples, Florida. May/June 2004. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/26/2007 4:46:12 PM | The Problem it seems these days is that researchers can make the data from their tests say whatever it is that they want it to say. Making food sciecnce really nothing more than a battle ground for differing ideologies. One day they say that fat is bad the next they say that you cannot live without it. The idea is that everything that you take into your body should be done in moderation. Meat is a good source of portien. When cooked it looses a little of its nutirents but its better than the alternative of eating it raw. Char broiling it on the other hand does nothing but ruin its nutritional value and introduce some hazardous substances into the consumer. If we eat Balanced fruits, nuts,meats, and grains we reap the bennifits that all of those food products have to offer. Our bodies are designed to eat all sorts of things. Eating meat should only be a small protion of what we ingest. That being said I do not believe that we should eat vegitables only either. Personally I would rather eat a tasty animal over some earthy tasting mushroom.
If you are religious in nature you can read in Romans 14, that we should eat from all things, and that we should not judge those who do not eat from all things. It seems pointless to go on fighting about eating meat or not eating meat. I for one will always eat meat even if science comes up with some way to prove to me that I do not need it to survive.
I do not like the idea of swallowing a few pills each day to get the nutrition that my body needs. I like to fry up some eggs, barbeque a hamburger or steak. Eating Organics is certainly a good way to go, get rid of the chemicals that are causing harm in your diet. Whether or not you eat meat is an entirely personal issue. Science can make the data say whatever the researcher wants and should be taken with a grain of salt because of that. Use common sense if you have any and respect the belief that others have. I once had a militant vegan roommate who threw out a steak that I was planning to eat later that night. By throwing out the meat that I was going to eat he infact destroyed the purpose for taking that animals life.
There will be extremists at any end of any issue, the goal should be to find a happy medium even if that is only in agreeing to disagree.
The short answer to Why do people eat meat? is Beacue we want to. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/28/2007 7:16:13 PM | I don't eat dogs or cats but I would if I were allowed. I would like to just see how it taste. It's funny how people will complain about the morality that you eat cats or dogs but then they are willing to eat another animal like chickens or cows. Turkeys, ducks or pigs on massive scales.
Although they are actually those but very rare people who do stick by there principles and eat nothing of animals and buy nothing made from an animal. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/28/2007 7:46:10 PM | I think I can say with 100% certainly that all non-exotic meat served in America is from animals that were raised for the purpose of becoming meat. Except maybe that dairy cow that is getting really old and doesn't produce good milk still (and other similar cases).
Cows have been bred to be walking digestive systems to produce meat to sell.
If humans were to suddenly give up eating beef, a substantial population of cows would be left alone to die because we simply don't need so many cows for dairy products.
That said, it is easier to get get protein from animal sources than vegetables (although it is still more efficient to get protein from ones own species).
But in America, people don't eat Cats and Dogs because that is our societal custom. That and you don't (typically) give a identifying name to an animal you are gonna eat (or prepare for someone else to eat).
For instance: Betsy is the name of dairy cow.
However, a previous poster mentioned that perhaps predators can better integrate, perhaps that is true. But I think it is more likely that through selective breeding we have made many animals dependent on us and/or we raise them from a young age to depend on us for feed. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/28/2007 8:16:02 PM |
I think I can say with 100% certainly that all non-exotic meat served in America is from animals that were raised for the purpose of becoming meat.
Hmmm, I wouldn't call deer, elk, duck, pheasant, dove, or squirrel exotic, more like ordinary. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 12:35:13 AM | | Stupid. Foolish. Ignorant. Who is in charge of this post? Are you people serious? | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 12:37:04 AM | | These assumptions are less than amusing. You are the reason that factory farms exist. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 111 | |
| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 1:01:29 AM | People eat meat because our government lies to us about soy
The allegedly independent expert panel appointed by the US Federal Government's Center for Evaluation of Risks to Human Reproduction
... who reported that the quantities of genistein in soy infant formulas are "negligible'
This is fraud in view of the considerable volumes of published data.
This is contrary to many peer-reviewed and published studies,
including the United Kingdom, the Swiss, Israeli and French Health departments.
Tofu accelerates brain loss in aging users,
that the more soy you use the more it impacts your mental abilities,
that soy acts like a drug, not a food.
True Health, the magazine of Carotec Inc., Naples, Florida. May/June 2004.
When we first questioned the safety of soy,
a representative of Protein Technologies International said :
"...teams of lawyers to crush dissenters, could buy scientists to give evidence, owned television channels and newspapers,
could divert medical schools and could even influence governments..."
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/07quietconquest.htm | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 2:29:24 AM | Mr H20,
Just because you read it on the internet doesn't make it true. I followed that link and couldn't find the source of the literature so i e-mailed them. Color me shocked They were only to happy to share with me their source and more propaganda. I was shocked to find that they have ties to a Political party that is into yogic flying.
Although it was interesting and funny non of the links you provide as evidence to your obsession have any scientific basis. Did someone you know end up in some cult that happened to be vegan as well??? I don't know what your problem is but Even Cancer Research organizations have done studies which would definitely seem unbiased and have a lot of good to say about soy. heres the link:
http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=5702#soy
There is a lot of misinformation and if you let go of your emotional and relentless obsession of trying to bring down the soy industry you will start finding it. Most legitimate sources won't have ties to brainwashing, or yogic flying. No harm to you but i think you just need to step back and look if your ranting is reasonable.
Like you said before you are responsible with your choice of slaughtered meat buying local, you feel you are doing enough no one will argue with your own feelings. We will all do what we feel is right. However the propaganda you are spreading about soy will harm others in the end because there is plenty of research showing the benefits of soy or at least is 20 times safer then milk from cows.
Its clear that anything in excess is not good for us but it seems thats what American folk do they hear something is good for them and they consume mass quantities of it like cattle and end up in trouble blaming the product. The studies with cattle are irrelevant to humans as we don't consume the amount cows do, well most of us. And us smarter people don't eat the cattle that are being used as guinipigs to get rid of what we as humans can't or won't eat, but inadvertently are eating, yuck...
Even the estrogen you talk about in soy is not the same as human and in fact has health benefits for both male and female people and should be encouraged as a part of both sexes healthy diet. But you will get the odd doctor here and there that will spout off not knowing the difference and it ends up on the internet where people seem to believe everything they read.
crazylilting | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 9:38:38 AM |  Yogic flying is a joke if I ever saw one. They hope around in the cross legged meditation form and bounce around -- then snap a picture in midflight and try to call it something mystical.
Char broiling it on the other hand does nothing but ruin its nutritional value and introduce some hazardous substances into the consumer.
I disagree as does the original inventor of the HERP test. (Human Equivalency Rat Potency test -- being used for all foods and meds today)
First of all the dangerous bacteria in meat are areboic, meaning they need air to live. As such they are on the outside of the meat so charbroiling assures those nasty little buggers are dead and won't make you or I sick.
Secondly, via the HERP test and his research (he won the Nobel Prize in Science for his work, btw, so it shouldn't be hard for you to google up some info on all this -- its been years since I read it ) he even proclaimed the everyday mushroom to have a high carcinogenic effect.
So why are we not dropping like flies from eating mushrooms? He postulated that our bodies learn to adapt to carcingens. Carcinogenic toxicity is a much more complex issue than it appears. Its not a matter of one factor but MANY that lead to cancer. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 11:12:43 AM | There are a number of people who cannot digest soy. In fact these are in as great of numbers as those lactose intolerant. I am Soy intolerant, like most of my family.
I have yet to meet a reputable physician who would recommend a vegan diet for an infant/toddler/young child. Simply put, we need some animal proteins, even if only in the form of insects, to give us what we need (short of synthetic supplements.) That is why we are omnivores. We need some of everything, although we are able to - in our adult years - survive a very long time without some key components. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 1:15:37 PM | I personally don't eat much soy products however its in i think 40 or 60 percent of process foods out there i hear. That must be difficult for you. Kind of like it being difficult for vegan's to find foods that are free of animal by-products.
I do know that when i ate tofu or had it in my smoothies i had less pain in my joints. However it would be impossible to know for sure that was what was helping. I just cut out wheat to see if that would help and I have to say the pain is getting better.
As for your comments about doctors I think your sadly mistaken there are many doctors that recommend vegan diets and the numbers are growing. PCRM (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine) recommends a vegan diet, and is supported by 3000 physicians, many of them fairly well known. http://www.pcrm.org/ and thats only one source.
One can be vegan and not consume soy. There are lots of things that are vegan that i would stay away from just like there are many things that contain meat or animal products that you'd probably stay away from. And even with a meat rich diet its recommended to take supplements. However you grow your own food and i would think that if you do you are taking care of the ground they are grown in so you'd be getting a more nutrient rich diet then the masses. I'm not saying that there aren't nutrients or some benefits to eating meat. I've been saying that meat is an inefficient source and is morally wrong. Animals eat plants so of course they are full of goodness. Unfortunately (or fortunately for some of us ) the cost of eating meat is greater on our earth and our bodies then a vegetarian or vegan diet.
One can make as many arguments back and forth and find sources to back up our point of view but as i've said before if you feel you are doing all you can to be part of the solution then there is no problem. Its when people deny that there is a problem and defend themselves emotionally to continue what they are doing when it is clear as the nose in front of them what they are doing is causing harm and destroying our world. If you choose to destroy the world and know you are doing it and don't care or think thats just the way it is and your not going to change it then nothing can be said till the problem hits home for them. However to not point out the problems to people who have no idea of the issues would be irresponsible.
crazylilting | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 2:21:48 PM |
why do people eat cows and pigs when they dont eat dogs and cats?
- there were cultures based in asia and the americas (The Polynesians and Aztecs to be specific) both had dog breeds selected purely for consumption.
But herbevores are easier - their feed at a trophic level that supports greater biomass, and the domesticated species almost all have a herd mindset, making them easier to look after. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 3:21:19 PM | I want to provide a totally different argument here, and i'm no vegetarian but don't let that influence how you take my argument as I do feel remorse for each animal killed to fill my stomache.
Vegetarians provide the argument that killing living things to eat is immoral. What are plants then, they breath, feed, grow, and reproduce. By all definitions of living, they are living. There have even been studies to show they have feelings of their own, though not nearly as complex as ours, they are there. When you cut a plan, it bleeds a chemical that scabs over the cut, this leads me to believe it has a pain-response much like every other living being.
So be proud vegetarians, you are eating living beings just like the rest of us. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 5:07:07 PM | I agree with the guy who talks about Vegetarians. I am an Omivoure which means I eat both plants and animals. As for the guy who commented about humans being tasty, well I do think some are. But I have just nibbled, sucked, and tongued a human, some are sweet, some bitter, some salty. I only taste after I know a person very well..:blah
I do like meat. I tried being a vegitarian once, but I have low blood sugar and need protien. I can not eat Soy because it upsets my stomach.
In Genesis it talks about eatting both vegetation and meat. Some don't agree that is their preference. I can respect that. I do love some BBQ ribs, bacon, Short beef ribs, Venicne steaks, corn on the cob, baked beans, a good salad, peach pie, I come from a mid western country family. We grow our own fruits and veggies, we hunt, and we go to the local butcher where the meat was cut up that morning fresh. I live in NYC right now and miss all that, but I get it when back home. So to each his or her own. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 120 | |
| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/29/2007 5:52:04 PM | The soy industry is ecstatic with pride over soy protein – a waste byproduct of soy oil production.
Years ago, people wanted to eat it about as much as they wanted to eat poop,
so the industry redirected its efforts toward making it into animal feed.
But years and years of USDA studies proved that there are limits to how much soy you
can stuff into a cow, pig or chicken before it gets sick,
gives birth to young with severe defects, or even drops dead before it's fat enough for slaughter.
(Soy's side effect of fattening is appreciated, of course, until it causes an animal to drop dead before its time
– especially if the animal happens to wear clothes and speak English.)
The problem for the soy industry was that even when animals eat all they can take,
there's plenty of soy protein left over.
That gave them the choice of either feeding it to the local landfill or finding a way to feed it to people.
Given that option No. 1 costs money and option No. 2 makes money, guess which one won out?
All I ask is that people """question""" how this product suddenly became so popular.
Lobbyists consistently sway USA governmental opinion on items because
political campaigns rely on massive amounts of $$$$
-The end consumer be damned, we got cash in our pockets to campaign for re-election.
Let's try this site instead ______http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/30/2007 1:57:53 AM | Hello Mr. H20,
I understand you don't like soy and in fact would like to wipe it from the face of the earth. I did check out your new page. He, and his partners that by the way are selling their own books are funded by others who are selling products as well. It is no different then the farmers trying to peddle their soy. Independent means that they don't have any vested interest in soy or other products just an interest in health. However I do like some of the things they are up to. I like the idea that they are pushing for farmer to consumer sales. I believe in the decentralization of everything including power and waste management.
The closer the problems to peoples door steps the more they will want to do something positive for the environment. When land demands are made locally to feed themselves they will begin to correlate the high demand their own food source makes and possibly reduce the amount of impact they have on the world.
Soy like anything has become a business because people are simply greedy. easy money isn't it. I don't disagree with you on that it seems we do have some common ground after all. However you must see the same with cattle farming as it is the same issue. Its funny how meat farmers will buy this cheap food and try and feed it to their cattle. Who's interest do they really have at heart? yours? When they are injecting the cattle and infecting the meat and milk with up to 50 something hormones and antibiotics who do they care about? When they are feeding them animal by-products and cheap soy filler who do they care about? The people they sell it to? or the money they will make?
People search to do the least for the most return without any interest for the people who buy their products. That seems to be a common theme no matter what diet a person has. And it is this problem that means we never really get to the bottom of the truth. This is why we need to be able to trust doctors and scientists who study health independently of industry. And even then if they cured disease they would be out of a job. Hmmmm can we even trust them?
Oops i forgot to add. If it wasn't soy? what do you think the farmers would feed their cattle? You have to remember 80% of soy production is for cattle. The fact is cattle take 7 times the amount of energy to produce them they provide, so no matter what unless you are willing to pay 7 times the amount for their meat they will be produced as cheaply as possible. I think the lesser of evils would be to feed them really good food and have people pay the real price for real food and then see if consumers will still want to eat it. Would it be as tasty if it were 7 times the cost? i'd venture to say no which would solve a lot of problems right there.
crazylilting | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 122 | |
| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/30/2007 9:48:37 AM | Fresh clean water is near and dear to my heart as an avid kayaker in Michigan.
Reform is definitely needed by the massive corporate meat producing farms.
Pork farmers churn out a sea of waste that has destroyed rivers,
killed millions of fish and generated one of the largest fines in EPA history.
Since the USA government doesn't care about the environment, it has snowballed.
Forcing a massive cleanup, sewage disposal treatment plant, will bankrupt them.
Under threat of reprisal from USA officials , many have gone overseas
only to ruin huge tracts of land in foreign countries.
Making a 180 turn and avoiding meat entirely is not the answer.
Creating a government that acts in the best interest of its citizens makes sense to me. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/30/2007 12:23:44 PM | | Asking 'why do people eat meat', a little like asking 'why have cows evolved to eat grass, why did this animal develop as a herbivore, this as an omnivore, and this as a carnivore.' It's all down to what is most successful for that particular species, what that species has identified to be a good source of food. Obviously hunting a domestic dog for food was not efficient or worthwhile in the rewards, while breeding a cow, which provides plentiful meat, and easy to raise, was. | |
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/30/2007 5:46:55 PM | People do eat cats and dogs.
If no one has touche don this:
One theory for the enlarging brain of earrly humans, homo erectus i think it began with, is that fire allowed better digestion of animal protein, which incresed brain size. We eat animals for protein. I am sure early on people ate anything they could get their hands on, and animals provide a good bang for your buck if your out gathering and hunting. Today we have choice, so it is cultural as well as biological. We crave the protein from meat. Sure you can substitute, so now, at least in rich countries, it is cultural. Eat my cat, and you die.
Oh, I know homo erectus is not considered human.
Peace
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| Why do people eat meat?
Posted: 8/30/2007 8:23:38 PM | Well, I am going out tomorrow with friends in NYC and I am having a nice juicy steak with a baked potato, salad, and a glass of wine. I will have some A-1 sauce with it and good conversation. I will enjoy every bite. What I don't eat I am sure my guy friend will finish for me. Yummy. | |
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