| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 9/22/2007 8:15:23 PM | Have no Fear
I didn't say or assume Sunday drives like an idiot. I was saying that if he doesn't drive like an idiot, he has nothing to worry about. That goes for anyone and was not a message intended for Sunday alone. Sorry for any misunderstanding on that point.
I also do not want to get into a debate on who are the safer drivers, and blood alcohol and the effects of alcohol on reaction time etc. That is a whole different topic.
Who am I to declare 150 is obsessive? I didn't make the law, so apparently a few somewhat educated people thought it was.
Yes there are a LOT of bad drivers out there. Adding excessive speed doesn't help. Basic physics and stopping time etc....it is hard enough to try to keep the appropriate car length behind someone. At 150 you would have to have a really big distance between cars and we know that isn't really feasible with the amount of cars on the road. I agree on the point that driving too slowly and not maintaining the flow of traffic can also be a hazard. But good luck trying to stop suddenly if the car in front of you loses control, or a deer jumps in front of you at 150. (you, not the deer :) )
As for the point about the OPP, who incidently do not make up the laws, just enforce them, not going to a call without lights on is not entirely true. Technically yes, they should have the lights on but realistically, many motorists panic or brake instead of pulling over to the right lane for an emergency vehicle, so sometimes it is safer and more efficient not to activate emergency lights.
Have No Fear you stated:
"Perhaps only those who have passed skid controll school, emergency avoidance tests, understand minimum physics, have a minimun IQ of 90, and have a mechanical understanding of cars should drive on the roads, especially highways. Maybe make it like it is in parts of Europe where the cars go for annual mechanical inspections. Does that sound fair." Actually, that does sound fair to me. It actually sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the IQ part goes a little too far but overall, I believe drivers should be better educated and better trained.
One last point...most drivers THINK they are a lot better than they actually are. I am sure myself included. That is why over-confident drivers going 150 is a scary thing. Add in the other factors...they THINK they can text message etc while driving, and also do it at 150..very scary. Besides, other than a very very rare situation, why would one ever need to be driving 150. I think the spirit of the law is to stop the goofs that use city streets to have drag races with no regard for the lives or safety of innocent bystanders.
On a personal note, I have almost 30 years of driving experience including everything from the Toronto 401 commute, long trips alone to Maine etc, country road driving etc etc...and have not yet had any accidents and I do not drive like a granny...despite my "age" ;) lol I do ok for myself. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 9/30/2007 2:30:02 AM | Ok so the new laws are in effect Sunday Sept 30 midnight, and just like I said in a previous post, unsafe lane changes, tailgating, cutting someone off and a whole host more (of new definitions for "street race", "contest", and "stunt") fall under the so called "STREET RACING LAWS", which is now considered criminal. So get ready to have 5,000 new expected criminals from this law.
Toronto Star story here --> http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/261778
Oh and CuriousAboutYou - even if you dont drive like an idiot, you can get nabbed.
Examples:-
1. minding yer own business and unknowingly blocking someone from passing you - falls under the newly defined laws [ driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing] which is a definition of "stunt" under the new street racing law.
2. Like it was said by someone else - if you drive the speed limit BUT you are going slower than the flow of traffic - you can get nailed because you potentially become a hazard, - as in [ 8. Driving a motor vehicle without due care AND ATTENTION, without reasonable CONSIDERATION for other persons using the highway OR in a manner that may ENDANGER any person ] which is a definition of "race" + "contest" under the new street racing law. So watch out ppl.
3. When the guy behind you tailgates you and you "tap" yer brakes cuz yer afraid they may hit you or involve you in an accident further up the road and you want to put distance between you and them [ ii. stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the driver’s sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so ]
4. and more non-idiotic driving that I wont waste my time listing.
Left lane bandits are about to become criminals. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 9/30/2007 7:08:32 AM | Hi
I have been in emergency services for years and I can honestly say that yes Speed kills. I have also personally lost some good friends over the years who thought they were bullet proof. I think any deterent to putting your life at risk is justified, and let's not forget that other people die in speed related accidents. Hey I'm preaching on a Sunday. Call me father Dave....lol | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 9/30/2007 8:06:04 AM | | Sorry Dave, but the speed did not kill, it was the sudden deceleration/stop/impact that killed. It's very difficult to die while you are in high speed, meaning that I can drive forever at 250Kms and hour and never die, BUT, if I hit something/someone and suddenly stop, then yes I may die. Race car drivers never die from high speed, they die from hitting the wall. Health matters dont count, lol. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 9/30/2007 3:22:50 PM |
2. governing a vehicles speed is dangerous. What happens in an emergency shituation when you need to go faster, to pass another vehicle, need to avaoid something, etc... haveing a governor will screw you. Also a governor governed at 100 would not stop you from doing 90 in a 50 zone.
You're right. . . there could be some situations where the loss of the ability to go excessively fast could cause serious injury or fatality. But we should always base our safety laws on "the greater good". Many more lives would be saved by installing governors to limit speed. I was around in the 1970's when seatbelt legislation came into effect. The same argument was used against mandatory seatbelt use because its true, seatbelts DO sometimes cause death. Overwhelmingly though, more lives have been saved by mandatory seatbelt legislation than people actually killed by the seatbelt itself. Ditto airbags. Ditto anti-lock braking systems.
By using transponder technology it would be very easy to have a governor adjust its upper limit depending on the road you are on.
1. speed does NOT kill, the sudden stop does, NO ONE has ever died from going fast cuz if that were true, ppl who fly would die.
Are you arguing semantics or do you just not get the concept that the faster you go, the harder you crash?
bottom line is get stupid ppl off the road,
Ninety percent of people that drive believe their driving skills to be in the top 10%.
that wont happen cuz the gov makes way too much money keeping ppl in their cars.
In a democratic society, we are the government. You make it sound like governments are separate entities with perhaps an evil twist to create revenue.
I totally agree though it is nothing but a cash grab to set up radar on a Sunday at the bottom of a hill in a non-residential area to catch speeders.
Where I live, 41 Division's traffic unit uses my street where it meets Birchmount as a training ground for new traffic officers. Radar can be set up there at any time. Birchmount between Eglinton and St. Clair is a posted 50 kmh.
I am going to start a new thread about Auto Insurance in Ontario. soon | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 9/30/2007 8:03:23 PM | | it's election time, you know it is when they come out with ridiculous laws such as this. As others have stated, its a cash grab and thats all, safety isn't the issue, its money, plain and simple, and for anyone who cannot see that, quite simply you must be stupid. The right to appeal has been taken away, can we say police state? I agree that idiots doing 150 should be punished, but this law is going to be affecting more than just speeders. This law is pretty damn vague in its definitions, basically its left to the officers discretion, and we all know that sometimes, officers just don't like you and they can say whatever they want. I hope that somehow, some way someone ends up fighting this if they really weren't breaking the law. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/1/2007 1:21:04 PM | my view on this
everyone now is apprently a street racer.
150 is not really that fast.
instead of targeting speeders. hey heres an idea why dont you go arrest some more gangsters who are selling drugs, shooting people, mugging and destorying communities instead of someone doing 50 over the limit
and lastly what do you think is going to happen now with those on bikes and really fast/modified vehicles.
they aren't going to stop. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/1/2007 3:49:01 PM |
they aren't going to stop.
which is exactly what the government wants, it means more money. I doubt it highly that it will make the streets safer. What exactly were the old laws for, did they make the streets safer? Suddenly this law is going to? LMFAO | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/1/2007 4:08:35 PM | | I think the new penalties are a wonderful idea. Anyone who drives 50 km over the speed limit should have the vehicle locked up, and a huge fine. There are 28 fewer idiots on the road after the first weekend of the new penalties. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/1/2007 4:38:41 PM | Well my sister died because of a drunk driver that was definitely exceeding the speed limit and to this day I still cannot get the picture of her face out of my mind as I had to identify her and she was unrecognizeable..perhaps I am prejudiced because of this however I am also a single parent as my husband died of cancer so naturally I do understand about rushing from one place to the other and receive tickets on occassion so I can honestly tell you I do not understand why they produce fast cars for us to drive if we cannot ever drive them!
From someone who does give a damn about too many things but having to pay tickets for something they create for us to drive and if we are driving carefully then what is wrong with speed. It is the ones that drive recklessly or under the influence of anything that should be jailed all over the world.
Sincerely TG | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/1/2007 4:45:00 PM | Sorry for your lose Realgypsy but...
Was it the speed that killed her, or the drunk?
Note that all the penalities that we have against drunk driving hasn't made a dent in the incidents of drunk driving, and all the penalties in the world arnt going to prevent speeding.
In some ways, speeding now has a higher penalty then impaired driving. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/1/2007 7:12:08 PM | I don't know why some of you think this law won't be effective.
One of the guys caught on the weekend was seen crying when his mommys car was being towed away to the yard for a week. He will be lucky if she lets him skateboard on his own.
Because of this new law, people are going to be a lot more responsible about lending their car out to people.
Fines may not work for some people, but inconveniencing somebody is the best deterrent. The impounding of the car for a week is a big inconvenience. The suspension of their license and the criminal record may cost them jobs for many years.
Somebody mentioned that some of these people will just continue to do their thing and try to outrun the cops or maybe these people will just smarten up. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 7:36:01 AM |
which is exactly what the government wants, it means more money. I doubt it highly that it will make the streets safer. What exactly were the old laws for, did they make the streets safer? Suddenly this law is going to? LMFAO
ya cause street racing is a huge problem in toronto. the death rate related to "street racing" by people in there moms car or their "modified" honda's is nothing.
this law was originally brought out to combat street racers. but so far the cars being pulled over are completely stock and obviously not cars meant for racing. infact none of the cars that i have seen involved in any accidents that the police apprently blame street racing for are barely modified.
its just a cash grab. go after people who merge onto highways doing 60, unsafe vehicles (you wont believe how many cars on the roads wont pass safety) people on cell phones, and generally people who got there licence out of a cereal box. They are more of a danger than someone doing 150. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 7:39:54 AM |
ya cause street racing is a huge problem in toronto. the death rate related to "street racing" by people in there moms car or their "modified" honda's is nothing.
and that was all sarcasm.
and another weird thing. how am i posting under the dj account, my account is DJ_Souvlaki. | |
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Mayor
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Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 67 | |
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 7:45:42 AM | I don't know why some of you think this law won't be effective.
i would think the answer lays in the fact that in 10,000 years of human civilization, no parents wishes, no laws, or no threats of death, have curved the ability for some people to do stupid things
but i could be wrong this law may yet save us all | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 8:00:09 AM | | I think the fact that due process has been thrown out the window is disturbing. The police have been given too much power. The cops are now the judge and jury, and the it is the officers word, not against yours though because you have no right to appeal (suspension or impoundment), you have no say, and that is scary. In a perfect world, the officers word would mean something but unfortunatly, there are ***hole cops out there who will lie and there is nothing you can do. | |
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Mayor
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Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 69 | |
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 8:03:17 AM |
the fact that due process has been thrown out the window is disturbing
oh the state will do anything they want,, its for our own good. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 10:06:28 AM |
I think the fact that due process has been thrown out the window is disturbing.
I think you are right on about that. What difference would it really make if who ever gets caught waits six months or so and has a chance to defend themselves first before being penalized? The penalty delayed would still be a major pain in the butt when it happens.
If a vehicle couldn't pass a safety test, maybe that would be grounds for suspending due process. But one officer's (or two or ten, because they do tend to stick together) opinion that you were driving recklessly shouldn't be enough.
It seems so wrong that it is highly probable this little bit of legislation will be struck down by a higher court on the grounds it violates our Constitution. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 1:25:15 PM | oh and if you agure with an officer while your car is being impounded the fine can go up an extra 5 to 10 grand.
i swear its less of a hastle if i shoot someone. | |
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Mayor
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Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 72 | |
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 3:41:18 PM |
if you agure with an officer while your car is being impounded the fine can go up an extra 5 to 10 grand
and i am sure they took all the time in the world to define just what argue with an officer was to mean | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 5:52:53 PM | WOW!! After reading through this whole thread I am extremely shocked!!
Cash grab? Speed DOESN'T kill?
ARE YOU F'N KIDDING ME PEOPLE???????
I think these new penalties are extremely fair! If someone is so idiotic to believe that going 20/kph or more over the speed limit is ok then I think you need to give your head a major shake!! Maybe your lives haven't been affected before by losing someone close to you from speed but many others of us have had to deal with the cold hard truth and pain... maybe that's why we can see so much more clearly WHY it's so important something had to be done.
As far as i'm concerned it's the people who drive retarded speeds who are doing all the complaining. Awwww you afraid it might slow ya down a wee bit?? GROW THE HELL UP!!!
The only way this can be a cash grab for the government would be IF you were to actually drive 50k's over the speedlimit you knobs!!!!!!!! If you're dumb, irresponsible and heartless enough to do such an idiotic act then YES you do deserve such a harsh penalty.
I drive on these roads, my friends and family drive on those roads... HOW DARE so many idiots believe they have the right to put myself aswell as my loved ones at risk by showing dumbness behind the wheel. Do you really believe your life is that important that you have to speed like a jack@ass and put others lives at risk??
We have set speed limits for a reason and i'm soooooooo sorry if for some reason they don't work for you but do the rest of us a favour and buy a plane and stay the hell off the roads if you are too dense to follow the rules!!
B*tch and chew all you want but things are becoming more strict like this because of so many of you idiots believing you own the god damn roads. Do you really think speeding is doing you any good? Or that it makes you look any better? Are you afraid you're going to be late all the time? .... then leave earlier dumbass!!!
I hear over and over again from c*cky idiots saying "I drive this speed all the time and not once have I ever been in an accident" Well good for you smarty pants but it only takes one second for that smooth ride to become the rockiest ride of your life!! As much as you want to believe it... you REALLY don't have that much control of your vehicles ESPECIALLY going such a retarded speed. Do you ever check back to reality? As in... what if the vehicle infront or beside you blows a tire? You can't honestly believe you will have better control going 120-plus over someone going the speed limit.
Raise the speed limits??? BAHAHAHAHAHAHA ohhhh you dumb people!! Why on earth do you actually that is the right thing to do? So everyone can drive around doing stupid speeds putting their lives and everyone elses even more at risk? WE ARE NOT Nascar drivers people!! There are tracks designed for such speeds... not the roads we, aswell as our loved ones drive on everyday. | |
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NewNeo
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Joined: 6/28/2006
Msg: 74 | |
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 6:08:56 PM | Aside from the emotional rant which isn't well thought out there are other points to consider. What would happen if everyone drove the speed limit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szndW55qtg0
My grandmother drives the speed limit and has been in one accident a year. And she still has her license and insurance? Now that's just stupid. Two of my family members have been killed in accidents due to old ladies in their K cars doing the speed limit...but on the wrong side of the road. I think there are a lot more things to consider first before blaming the people who speed a little.
Can we all agree that it's not the speed so much as the ability to handle your vehicle and the situations that may arise while driving that is the issue?
Be more strict about who gets their license to begin with and include appropriate training as a requirement rather than just a 5 min road test.
*shrugs* | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/2/2007 8:57:54 PM | [quote[Can we all agree that it's not the speed so much as the ability to handle your vehicle and the situations that may arise while driving that is the issue?
Be more strict about who gets their license to begin with and include appropriate training as a requirement rather than just a 5 min road test.
finally someone said it.
road tests are a joke now. guranteed when it comes to a spin out that 90% of the people on the road do not know how to control thereselves. why because they aren't properly trained. this goes for both dry/wet/snowy weather.
my driving test took me 5 min for my g2. my full g was about 10. thats not a driving test at all. all aspects of driving including vehicle maitnence, proper control and reaction times should be tested. not a simple change three lanes parrelel park heres your licence. | |
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