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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/3/2007 4:59:14 PM | P.A.T.C.H. I hate to say this but you are an IDIOT, you obviously missed the point of everyones dislike of this new law. Its NOT just for speeders doing 50 over. You must understand that. This law is quite vauge and I can guarantee you that you have already been in violation of the new street racing laws and not even known it. Again, it's not just for speeders. This law would be fair if it targeted every type of stupid driver and not just speeders. Even if you are innocent, you have no appeal, and what does arguing with a cop have to do lawfully with driving? why can they raise your fine to $5,000 -$10,000 just for fighting with them? This law is as fair as saying that if you sliped on the sidewalk and accidentally pushed some stranger down some stairs as you tried to catch your balance, and they broke their neck, that you should face the same penalty as someone who intentionally murdered someone, because after all, killing is killing right, wrong. Why should someone doing 150 at 3 am 4 hours north of Toronto on a completely empty highway face the same penalty as someone doing 50 over in traffic killing someone?
What, you think you cant kill someone doing the legal limit? grow up. My grandmother would say that you dont have the right putting her life in danger driving 100Kms. It's all personal opinion and skill level. If you turn into oncomming traffic, well it's your fault wheather or not the oncomming traffic was speeding because you exercised undo care.
Why is 150 driving like a jackass? In some places in Europe EVERYONE drives a minimum of 200Kms and no major problems. Education is key. Parts of the autobauhn have no speed limits, so doing 270 or 300Kms is fine. They would post limits IF there was a problem. When I was in France, little 70 yr old ladies were driving 170 comming home from church. People kill people driving 40Kms.
Many speed limits long ago were set to keep people from going to fast for efficiency reasons during the energy crisis becaus 55Mps/100Kms is the point where drag begins to build againt a car. 100Kms is the most effiecent speed to travel, not a safest speed to travel.
And non**** ***holes can also loose controll at 50Kms in a split second. My grandma would say that 90Kms is a a retarded speed. Thats right your not NASCAR drivers, your too ignorant and stupid to drive that well.
NEWNEO, I second what you said. It all comes down to skill, ability, intelligence, consideration, thought, and more things. For the record, I do not go beyond 120Kms. I do not feel confortable at that speed. I am against this law because of how certain rights and freedoms granted under the Charter are violated. That and the fact that everyone is grouped together and upon conviction are given CRIMINAL records.
So P.A.T.C.H. Id like to hear what you would say if you got a criminal record for driving the way you drive now, lets say you were driving the legal limit but got your car taken away, and convicted and get a criminal record for being a road hazard, endangering other drivers, and not exercising certain consideration for other motorists doing 100Kms in the left lane?m Or how about the exact same penalties ($10,000 fine, criminal record, car + license seized for 7 days because your car is not up to standards but you thought it was? Better make sure your muffler is on super tight and doesnt fall off killing someone.
PS, that youtube link is no good no more. What was it called, maybe it can be found elsewhere. | |
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NewNeo
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Joined: 6/28/2006
Msg: 77 | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/3/2007 6:40:26 PM | I'm thinking that all those who don't agree with the new speeding penalties are speeders..  Good luck!!!
^^ way up there, at the top of this page, don't lump everyone in together, please. I think the new penalties are the best thing to hit the roads in years. You will NEVER convince me that you can justify speeding. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/3/2007 6:59:44 PM |
This law is as fair as saying that if you sliped on the sidewalk and accidentally pushed some stranger down some stairs as you tried to catch your balance, and they broke their neck, that you should face the same penalty as someone who intentionally murdered someone, because after all, killing is killing right, wrong.
Are you seriously comparing this law to that?? You don't accidently drive 50 over the speed limit. If your car is unsafe to be on the road, then YES you are putting others lives in danger. If you own a motorvehicle then it is your responsibility as the owner to keep it in proper condition.
Why should someone doing 150 at 3 am 4 hours north of Toronto on a completely empty highway face the same penalty as someone doing 50 over in traffic killing someone?
BECAUSE speed limits are there for a reason!! Not just for others safety but for yours as the driver aswell. Why is that such a hard concept for you to understand?? It doesn't matter what friggin time of day it is or how much traffic is on the roads... if you are driving over the speed limit you ARE breaking the law!!
What, you think you cant kill someone doing the legal limit? grow up. My grandmother would say that you dont have the right putting her life in danger driving 100Kms. It's all personal opinion and skill level. If you turn into oncomming traffic, well it's your fault wheather or not the oncomming traffic was speeding because you exercised undo care.
AGAIN... such a weak fight you're putting out here. Of course driving the legal speed limit you have can still kill someone BUT driving faster gives you less time to react if something should occur, aswell the impact is much harder the faster you are going.
It isn't all about skill darlin!! Speed is always a factor no matter how skilled you are behind the wheel.
And yes... if you turn into oncoming traffic it is YOUR responsibility to make sure you are making a safe turn!! If you are unsure about the speed of the oncoming traffic then WAIT until it is safe to make your turn.
Why is 150 driving like a jackass? In some places in Europe EVERYONE drives a minimum of 200Kms and no major problems. Education is key. Parts of the autobauhn have no speed limits, so doing 270 or 300Kms is fine. They would post limits IF there was a problem. When I was in France, little 70 yr old ladies were driving 170 comming home from church. People kill people driving 40Kms.
Well big whoops for Europe but welcome back to Ontario!! The point is that we DO have speed limits here and it's sad that it's so hard for so many people to obey them. By NOT obeying them you ARE putting others lives at risk.
Many speed limits long ago were set to keep people from going to fast for efficiency reasons during the energy crisis becaus 55Mps/100Kms is the point where drag begins to build againt a car. 100Kms is the most effiecent speed to travel, not a safest speed to travel.
ACTUALLY 100kph is a safer speed to drive the problem is that so many people keep creeping their speed faster and faster which is what is making it unsafe for the people driving the actual speed limit. Everyone seems to be in a hurry to get no where. None of them are looking at the BIG picture... the What If's. Just because a What If hasn't happened to some people yet, doesn't mean it WONT happen to them or someone they know and care about.
And non**** ***holes can also loose controll at 50Kms in a split second. My grandma would say that 90Kms is a a retarded speed. Thats right your not NASCAR drivers, your too ignorant and stupid to drive that well
You are right... you can lose control at a slower speed BUT the impact isn't as hard as it would be if you were driving a faster speed. Aswell... you have a better chance at re-gaining control of your vehicle while driving a slower speed.
NEWNEO, I second what you said. It all comes down to skill, ability, intelligence, consideration, thought, and more things. For the record, I do not go beyond 120Kms. I do not feel confortable at that speed. I am against this law because of how certain rights and freedoms granted under the Charter are violated. That and the fact that everyone is grouped together and upon conviction are given CRIMINAL records.
CONSIDERATION is a biggie!! Driving 50kms over the speed limit is NOT being considerate to others sharing the road with you and sure as hell isn't showing intelligence.
Driving such a large speed over the legal speed limit is like holding a loaded gun. You might not purposly shoot someone but it is your own fault for carrying a loaded weapon. People who get into highspeed collision of course were not under the intentions for such an aweful outcome but the fact is that they decided to drive that speed.
If you are speeding (especially driving such a large speed over the legal limit) then YES you are breaking the law. That would be considered walking on thin ice because if caught you should be recognized as a criminal. Of course that persons intentions were not to kill anyone BUT the fact is that if they do kill someone while breaking the law... they are no less guilty then someone shooting another person. They should have thought about their actions before they allowed their vehicle to reach such ridiculous speeds and puttings others lives at risk. THEY are the ones who have control over their speeds, not the innocent people who just happened to be around their impatient @ss.
So P.A.T.C.H. Id like to hear what you would say if you got a criminal record for driving the way you drive now, lets say you were driving the legal limit but got your car taken away, and convicted and get a criminal record for being a road hazard, endangering other drivers, and not exercising certain consideration for other motorists doing 100Kms in the left lane?m Or how about the exact same penalties ($10,000 fine, criminal record, car + license seized for 7 days because your car is not up to standards but you thought it was? Better make sure your muffler is on super tight and doesnt fall off killing someone.
WELL... as the owner of my vehicle it is MY responsibility to make damn sure my vehicle follows the codes and shouldn't be considered a hazard for those others on the roads. IF something were to occur then yes of course i'd be upset but at the same time i'd recongnize that laws are laws.
They aren't about to change them so suck it up and deal with it! | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/3/2007 9:46:15 PM |
Many speed limits long ago were set to keep people from going to fast for efficiency reasons during the energy crisis becaus 55Mps/100Kms is the point where drag begins to build againt a car. 100Kms is the most effiecent speed to travel, not a safest speed to travel.
And non**** ***holes can also loose controll at 50Kms in a split second. My grandma would say that 90Kms is a a retarded speed. Thats right your not NASCAR drivers, your too ignorant and stupid to drive that well
Your current mastery of syntax, grammar, spelling, metric/imperial conversions and basic physics doesn't exactly qualify you to be labeling anyone an IDIOT. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 12:18:51 AM | Most accidents relating in death are caused at sub legal speed limits.
Im not justifying speeding, Im trying to defend you basic legal rights.
I an NOT denying that speeding is breaking the law, I agree that it is law breaking, however, should it be considered criminal, especially if there is no accident? We already have laws in place dealing with people who have any sort of accident (negligence, criminal, manslaughter, etc). I can drive 145Kms (or even 149) all day every day and only face fines and demerit points if convicted BUT NOT BE CHARGED CRIMINALLY but I remain just as lethal as 150Kms. So according to you, everyone caught speeding even 1 single Km should have their cars seized, licenses seized, $2,000-$10,000 fine, possible 6 months in jail and a criminal record, because breaking the law is breaking the law.
This is just like the movie The Minority Report where they are basically locking you up before you commit a crime. However, in that movie they at least knew that you in deed were going to commit a crime. Whats the reasoning here? That cops now all of a sudden know who WILL get into an accident. What Im asking is, should you be nailed with a criminal charge BEFORE actually commiting a crime?
I bet that your also the first person to byotch and scream for getting a criminal record for having $5.00 of weed in your pocket or something else considered mild.
Well lemmie know what you think about this P.A.T.C.H. You just called me darlin correct. Me being a male and you a female, and you using a term like that is sexual harassment, should I now call the police and have you charged with sexual harassment. No excuses to break the law according to you. Do you deserve a record for somethig like that (which you may consider to be an innocent word or used in a nice way)? Just a thought.
Im not putting up a fight, so I dont care if you think it is weak or not. I dont fight, I use my brain to avoid them.
There are cars out there that can drive 150Kms and still stop in a shorter distance than your car can with you travelling 100Kms. So should people with high performance vehicles which can out handle, out manouver, have traction controll, and out break be saying that lesser cars are a danger to them and should be removed off of the roads. By your logic (given reaction time and stopping distance of vehicles ) heavyer and larger vehicles need way more room to stop [such as transport trucks] and so they should not be allowed to travel at 100Kms. Given their weight, it can mathmatically be said that in order for their stopping distance to match that of non commercial vehicles, they should not travell faster than 72Kms on highways. Wow, how dangerous would that be.
Here's another scenario for you that falls under this new street racing law, specifically tailgating or following to closely. My car can come to a complete stop in 120 feet from 100Kms and your car needs 148 feet to come to a complete stop. If I need to hit my breaks because the person infront of me slams on their breaks, and you are behind me, you will absoloutly rear end me (possibly injuring me or killing me). Now because you hit me and did not excercise due care, followed to close, endangered another motorist, etc. Should you now have your car + license seized, face a $2,000 - $10,000 fine, possible 6 months in jail and a criminal record (even if you indeed were min 3 seconds behind me, multi car pile ups also fit under the new law making everyone involved guilty, if it's enforced)? Well you know what, under the new anti street racing laws and the newly defined terms mentioned in them, that can be exactly what happens to you IF it is enforced. Right now they are only enforcing 10% of the new law. So you may feel unsafe with speeders on the road, and people like me in my position feel unsafe sharring the road with inferior vehicles, idiots, SUV's, etc that can potentially kill me and my family.
Well big whoops for Europe but welcome back to Ontario!! The point is that we DO have speed limits here and it's sad that it's so hard for so many people to obey them. By NOT obeying them you ARE putting others lives at risk your avoiding here because it dissolves and defeats your thinking. And by obeying them, you are still putting people at risk (driving 100Kms when everyone around you is doing 120Kms makes YOU hazzardous and dangerous and the one to get a ticket from the cops if they enforce it). Still sound fair? So you are a risk regardless.
You are right... you can lose control at a slower speed BUT the impact isn't as hard as it would be if you were driving a faster speed. Aswell... you have a better chance at re-gaining control of your vehicle while driving a slower speed. Not true. This solely depends on the stopping performance of the vehicle and the skill of the driver. If you do some statistical research, you will find that there are way more accidents and deaths involving lower speed collisions than of high speed collisions. Statistically you are safer going faster. I agree that it sounds dumb but it's true. Someone who travels the legal speed but doesnt brake because they panic are far more lethal than a speeder who breakes and avoids a collision.
Truly, I think there should be a law against being stupid and I think a very high minimum standard should be set in order to get a license. This wont happen because the majority of the public are unintelligent and they make up the majority of the voters.
If you can eat, drink, smoke, talk on the cell phone and still past the test , GOD bless you. If you dont do any of those things and fail, too bad. Get stupid people off the roads regardless of how fast or slow they drive.
So then what is you opinion if and when the province raises the maximum speed on some of the highways throughout Ontario to 120Kms? 170 would now be criminal.
I want to point out one more time for those who dont read my posts carefully enough. I do not condone 150Kms, my big issues with this new law are vaugness of it, the fact that a super strict cop could consider almost anything to fall under the new law, and the loss and or infringement of your rights. Much like in the RIDE programs. The courts have said multiple times that the RIDE program (being forced to stop when you have done nothing illegal) are infringements of your constitutional rights, however, they deem them to be acceptable. So what else in the future will be acceptable infringements of your constitutional rights? Entering your home unlawfully, stealing your identity to nab some criminal without your consent, recording your conversations and Email?
till concerned about safety? To bad the media does not tell you how many people have already run from cops (and got away ) because of this law putting way more people at risk. So now I need to also be concerned about someone involving me in an accident just to get away from cops.
{quote]They aren't about to change them so suck it up and deal with it! You do realize how rediculous that sounds dont you? Especially since they came about due to (uneducated) public out cry. So if and when the public gets sick of having people they know become criminals for silly little things, then yes they will change the laws again, especially near election time.
My syntax and spelling come from 7 hours in surgery on animals, Im a vet. Einseitn spelt horribly to, so he's an idiot also. Spelling has nothing to do with logic or thought processes, esp since it's not my first language | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 4:21:35 AM | Ramblings of an arrogant successful idiot ^^^^^^^.
A letter to the editor was in my local paper last night trying to justify that argument of my car is better therefore I am a better driver and all those unsuccessful people with their less capable cars should get off my road.
What hogwash!!!!!!!!!
Money does not equal skill. Sure it would be nice if we all drove nicer cars but get back in touch with reality.
The dangerous people are those that think that all the roads should move swiflty regardless of the time of day. Rushhours are slow because of the volume period.
It's those who choose to tailgate and push people in city streets that are dangerous. Based on some arguments you would have us drivers obeying the laws pull over to the side everytime we see a new BMW in our rearview so we don't upset them.
It's the rabbits who for some illogical train of thought and lack of any patience insist on switching lanes continuously in hopes of beating others to the next red light. Yeah you.
It's the driver who are trying to enter the highways with a cellphone to the ear and the other hand on the wheel and no signal indicator going. I guess you would like all of us inferior drivers to have ESP so we know what your intended route is so we can get out of the way.
Mainly for highways it's those who once on the 400's drive only in the passing lane for the entire length of your journey as opposed to actually following the laws and not allowing traffic to pass. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 4:44:52 AM | | Wow! There is a lot of back and forth here for sure! However, I can see "both" sides of what is being said! Sure, we need tougher laws for speeding and such, of that I have absolutely no doubt! Then again? Giving the police even more power to levy charges at their discression is not the answer either! How many of us get charged with "careless driving", go through the appeal process, and have the charge reduced? I am in the insurance industry, have been for years. The number of times I have heard from people and yes, other cops, that charges levied were "over the top" and the cop must have been in a bad mood??? If you all go back and re-read, you will see there is an undertone to what all of you have said. Just think about the proposed loss of freedom? Are we all perfect drivers? Hmm..me thinks not. Even while thinking we are doing the right thing, under what is proposed, that could end up being the opposite....I think this fellow has something here if we take the time to get past some of his arrogance and name calling. Why is it that some feel ya need to do that to get your point across anyway???? | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 6:07:30 AM | Wow 100 sounds fast , try driving a highway in the States at 100 and you will realize just how slow you are . 100km is slow for our highways but we have allowed our government to make 100 the manditory speed limit. We in Ontario have gotten used to these slow driving speeds. I try not to speed by the way, I just know from experience that we are forced to drive much slower . The metric system changed our life in many ways. 
Some accidents are caused not by speeders but by those going way below the posted limits on the roads. These slow overly cautious frightened drivers should not be allowed on the roads be it the highway or any other road. And it is not an age thing it is all in the manner of how these drivers are being taught to drive.
I feel that this law /penalty is a bit extreme ,however, they do what they have to do to stop street racing. Next they need to look at the really slow driver who causes accidents but are never involved in one. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 6:08:28 AM |
There are cars out there that can drive 150Kms and still stop in a shorter distance than your car can with you travelling 100Kms. So should people with high performance vehicles which can out handle, out manouver, have traction controll, and out break be saying that lesser cars are a danger to them and should be removed off of the roads. By your logic (given reaction time and stopping distance of vehicles ) heavyer and larger vehicles need way more room to stop [such as transport trucks] and so they should not be allowed to travel at 100Kms. Given their weight, it can mathmatically be said that in order for their stopping distance to match that of non commercial vehicles, they should not travell faster than 72Kms on highways. Wow, how dangerous would that be.
In the vast majority of cases though, the driver behind these 150 + an hr high performance vehicle is not skilled though. If they were, they would drive for a living. I know there are a few racetracks that are various sizes they can enter a car. It costs a lot of money, but chances are they have it to burn. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 7:22:21 AM | I never said that I drive an expensive car, nor did I say it was fast, in fact, I gave absoloutly NO indication as to what I drive. My occupation does not make me rich either. I was merely giving examples, all of which seem to have gone over most of your heads, just as the fact that you are blind to what I am saying, even examples dont help you. This is why I call many of you ignorant, idiotic, etc.
If you keep track of those who have been nailed under this new law, you will see that the majority of those nabbed were driving non performance and non super expensive cars. Most have been lower to middle class and driving cars in the $500 - $34,000. range. It is ignorant to assume only kids and rich people speed. One final time, this law is not primarily about speeding. If you cannot see that, then you probably are one of the idiots, because it is an idiot who relinquishes his most valued asset.
So I am going to stop writting in this thead, perhaps all of them, because I have learnt the lesson that you cannot educate a fool, of which many reside in this thread and or forum. I do applaude the few of you who have "seen" the points Im trying to get across, and those trying to protect their liberties, and I do not include you among those I considered here to be idiots and ignorants, quite the opposite, congrats.
No where did I say that I thought that "inferior" vehicles be removed from the roads. They were simply things to ponder. As were the things I mentioned that do not revolve around speed. As was said before, cops just issue careless or dangerous driving citations instead of what they are supposed to do, namely issuing tickets for not signaling lane changes, following to closely, (specific charges), etc. The charges of careless, dangerous driving are just as vauge as the new street racing law. People get angry when an incorrect and or far worse ticket is issued instead of the correct charge, but you seem to be fine with this law (near identicle but making things criminal). Cops dont care anymore, and just issue umbrella tickets of dangerous, careless driving and let the courts sort it out, and you end up suffering. Maybe the insurance lady here can confirm with me that this is just one of the major reasons for insurance hikes in the last several years, being that cops are to lazy to give you a correct ticket and issue you a dangerous or careless fine. Well this new law is just the same. This impacts you immensly because dangerous and careless tickets are seen as far worse according to your insurance co. This new law is a misnomer for what it really is.
My professors were right. Ignorant people are too ignorant to recognize their ignorance and you simply cannot educate some regardless of what you do, and don't preach because intelligent people already know or learn things for themselves and stupid people wont listen and dont take things under advisement.
Perhaps you'll finally understand what I was trying to say when you get busted under these vauge laws and have your rights violated. Wait a minute, you probably don't even know what your rights are, so go ahead, keep pissing them away. Gee, I wonder why a group of lawyers have formed to take on the government and represent their clients due to this new law. Oh wait, they cant possibly know something you dont, can they? Will you be part of their future class action suit? Not if your a moron. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 8:37:15 AM | | Having seen some of the carnage that speeders cause right here in Ontario because they think the law doesn't apply to them, I'd be content to see some of them summarily executed, due process be damned. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 1:29:47 PM | | You know if the government and police really gave a shit and was not only interested in making money they would simple make it the law for car makers to put a speed limiter on cars such as they have on my motorcycle which is governed at 300klm and yes i've hit that rev limiter many times and it does do 300k. They could easily have made it something a lot lower. Anybody who uses the 400 knows that NOBODY does the speed limit. Just like seat belts anybody care if you bash your face through the windshield? And why is there 2 demerit point for that, just how does that make you a good or bad driver? It's like cigarettes government knows how bad they are but hey the also have on hand in your pocket. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 3:24:55 PM |
My syntax and spelling come from 7 hours in surgery on animals, Im a vet. Einseitn spelt horribly to, so he's an idiot also. Spelling has nothing to do with logic or thought processes, esp since it's not my first language
Well, calling someone an "IDIOT" indicates an impairment in basic human social skills. Long before you reach the point of name calling you should consider just agreeing to disagree and move on to the next issue.
Truly, I think there should be a law against being stupid and I think a very high minimum standard should be set in order to get a license. This wont happen because the majority of the public are unintelligent and they make up the majority of the voters.
Did I really read this?
Wouldn't it make more logical, and economic sense, if you and likeminded intellectual elite just got yourselves an island somewhere and be done with the rest of us? | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 3:44:33 PM | I see that they have now posted the new signs along the 400 highway..and i hope people take this serious....
The following is from the Toronto Star Oct 1st
The high cost of speeding has come home to more than two dozen lead-footed drivers, the first to fall foul of new legislation designed to curb street racing and aggressive driving in Ontario.
For the 28 drivers charged yesterday, the costs hit home immediately: Vehicle impounded for seven days, driver's licence suspended for seven days and, if found guilty in court, a minimum $2,000 fine.
It was enough to drive one young man to tears after he became one of the first stopped by the Ontario Provincial Police after the law – aimed at drivers doing more than 50 kilometres over the speed limit – came into effect yesterday.
"A young man started crying as his mom's car was impounded," said OPP Sgt. Cam Woolley, unable to say if the tears were prompted by the temporary loss of the car, the potential fine, or in anticipation of mom's wrath.
Another driver, who just got his new car, promptly lost it after he was clocked doing 174 km/h on Highway 401, which has a 100 km/h speed limit. "He only had the car for two days, and the car will be impounded longer than he owned it," Woolley noted.
Two drivers who had their rental cars impounded face even steeper costs, since they'll be paying rental costs while their cars sit in an impound lot. "They're now responsible for at least a week of extra rent," Woolley said, adding: "There's no question that this is going to reduce the aggressive driving."
Police aren't apologizing for embracing the law and its stiff penalties.
Well hopefully now people will take it serious... It is the law.. and i think its a great one. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/4/2007 5:13:43 PM | Are these penalties seriously going to work? Let's take a look at the historical precedent set by the Impaired driving laws in Ontario:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/impaired/breaklaw/breaklaw.htm#consequences
First
Offence
* 1 year licence suspension*
* Remedial measures requirement
* Minimum 1 year ignition interlock condition upon reinstatement
Criminal Code Penalties
* 1 year driving prohibition
* $600 fine
Second
Offence
* 3-year licence suspension*
* Remedial measures requirement
* Minimum 3 years ignition interlock condition upon reinstatement
Criminal Code Penalties
* 2-year driving prohibition
* 14-day jail sentence
Third
Offence
* Lifetime licence suspension*
(reducible to 10 years if remedial measures requirement and other conditions met)
* Ignition interlock condition for life if suspension reduced
Criminal Code Penalties
* 3-year driving prohibition
* 90-day jail sentence
Fourth and
Subsequent
Offence
* Lifetime licence suspension*
* No possibility of reinstatement
Criminal Code Penalties
* Same as third offence
Those are pretty stiff.. so i guess there are no impaired drivers in this province are there?
http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2002/10/11/c0162.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html
There were approximately 16,000 drinking-and-driving convictions
recorded in Ontario.
Hmm.. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/5/2007 8:14:33 AM | At the end of the day this new law sucks!!!
It goes against the basic premise of the 'right to a day in court', ' innocent until proven guilty' however you want to word it. It is akin to the problem with photo radar the owner of the car gets punished who is not necessarily the owner. You are found guilty without due process. Under this law my car could get impounded for a number of reasons without me driving it. If my kid gets my car impounded how am I to get to work? If I cannot get to work how am I to get paid? If I cannot get paid how am I to pay the bills? The effects of this have NOT been thought out!!!
I have no problem with taking drunks off the road cause they have taken a stimulant which affects their ability to drive. An excessive speeder is just being an idiot.
It has also been shown with licenses being revoked that it does not matter these people will drive anyway. Sometimes from the court 10 minutes after their license was taken away by a judge. "A" channel did a expose on this a while ago.
Over time our freedoms (not that speeding at 50km above the limit should be allowed) and our basic rights are being taken away.
I agree with a poster above.. what has seatbelts got to do with safe driving .. the point system was brought in to track repeat offenders with traffic violations so how did seatbelts get tagged onto that? MONRY GRAB!!!! You are not affecting any one but yourself so why should anyone care ..you are over 18 ..decide for yourself.
Sort of like smokes .. you know it kills but adults make their own choice to smoke!!
Why does the gov't not ban smokes? ... MONEY GRAB!!!
lets see
... and adult does not have to wear a helmut on a bicycle but has to wear a seatbelt in a car. If you are 18 should you not be able to decide for yourself.
... at eighteen you can go to aphganistan and get killed but cannot legally have a drink.
We need a new thread to list this type of thing but the point is but the people of Ontario need to start standing up and saying enough is enough . While we do need to get nutty drivers off the road it should not be at the expense of our basic principles and justice system. This was a knee jerk reaction to a problem that no one knew how to deal with.
Should there be laws for baby seats absolutly! why should the kid suffer because of your decision. should kids till 8 years be kept in booster seats or should seatbelts been required to be adjusted for kids? Why not one or the other? Why not have booster seats for short adults too?
look at the case recently of the little girl who lost her parents to a couple of speeders chasing each other up the road. One of the speeders broad sided this couple and killed them. While they were being idiots and should receive some sort of punishment. they had no alcohol in their blood yet the killed driver the supposed innocent one had two times the legal limit. So we know his judgement was impaired. Maybe had he not been drinking he would not have pulled out into the intersection. maybe he would have been better able to assess the situation the speed of these idiots . So which is worse the drunk or the speeder. Hard to say. But the drunk was not as innocent as the press first made it seem. Usually it is the drunk who kills someone else. In this case it was the drunk who got killed.
Speed is one issue. excessive speed another. racing is another. cutting in and out another( I think this is worse than speeding but often because some one is in the left lane who should not be)
EDUCATION is part of the answer. lets start with " be polite move to the right(lane)"
enough rant | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/5/2007 1:15:40 PM | I've only read a few posts but my opinion has always been more deaths will result from this new law simply because many unskilled drivers are going to take the chance to out run the cops to avoid a $10,000 fine. If they think their car is fast enough they may go for it and who knows what could happen then.
If your caught doing 50 over and having to weave in and out of traffic to do it then fine them a grand and take the vehicle for 3 days. If their caught doing 50 plus over in ideal driving conditions then keep the fine at a $1000 but don't take their vehicle.
I don't have fast cars anymore but facing a $10,000 fine on top of losing my car may just tempt me to see who reaches their limits first, me or the car.
The whole law is just political vote buying. A $10,000 fine means kids are not being fed, mortgage payments could be missed. Not good. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/5/2007 4:25:04 PM | At another time I will address many of the postings here, and, some of the misconceptions contained in them.
However, for the moment, I would simply like to welcome everyone to...
The New!!! People's Republic of Ontario!
Ain't it swell???
You will do what "we" decide is right and good for you by all of the best "Politically Correct" means. It's for your own good! So...shut up...we know what's best for you!
I have some Russian friends who have an interesting "take" on things in the free world.
The most noticeable is that: You don't lose all of your rights and freedoms all at once. They are removed a little at a time, then one day you wake up and they're all gone!
This is worth paying attention to!
The truth be known...I agree that agressive drivers need to be dealt with, and harshly.
However, due process, and all of that "outdated" crap, seems to have been the baby that's been thrown out with the "bathwater".
Only in Ontario you say?....pity! | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/5/2007 6:08:59 PM | I think its a great idea. I'm getting tired of hearing about people dying on the 400 series highways especially highway 400 on a long week-end.
This is the first long week-end its in affect so we shall see on tuesday if it worked or not. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/6/2007 8:19:34 PM | so fantino was talking about this new law and the great success it was having against street racers.
he also mentioned about cars that have intake and exhaust modifications so the car can run more octane.
that makes absolutley no sense. a higher octane rating does not increase horsepower. not unless you modify the internals of the engine or add forced induction.
he than mentioned that bigger rims make the car faster. ya the car can run at a higher speed now however you cut down the power severely cause of a taller tire.
so this just really leads me to believe that police have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to cars and how to deal with this street racing situation.
hey heres an idea. build a track. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/6/2007 8:53:07 PM | I drive for a living....it's getting scarier out there every day. People are being more aggressive, and, taking more chances all of the time.
I took a trip today, Innisfil to Thornbury, and back. I was off to deliver some building materials.
It's a 184 km round trip and entirely on two lane roads and highways. I passed six separate accident scenes involving about 18 vehicles. I was passed on the right side by someone using a right- turn-only lane at an intersection before I'd even been going for 15 minutes. Later, someone else passed me on the left using a left turn only lane. Then, someone else refused to slow and pull over to the right to allow 2 OPP cruisers, with their lights and sirens going, to pass. As it turns out, they were on their way to attend to another accident scene.
This whole deal played out over about 4 hours!
It's the Thanksgiving weekend, lots of weekend warriors on the roads.
All of the collisions were the result of someone slowing or stopping and the persons behind, NOT being able to stop....for whatever reasons...I do suspect that the laws of physics, which are most unforgiving, were being ignored again as usual.
The whole trip was less than four hours and all of it in farm n cottage country. It should have been a nice relaxing tour for checking out the fall colours!
For the most part, as always, people were chillin and doing just fine....however, there are too many, whose confidence, by far, exceeds their skills.
There are far too many who only are thinking of their own short-term goals...such as shaving a few nano-seconds off of their trip time! WTF are you people really thinking?
None of the collisions involved commercial vehicles...
I'm just going to hide out at home for the rest of the weekend...it's just too nuts out there.
I wish I had a dash mounted camera to record some of what happens in front of me EVERY DAY...then I could happily turn it over to the cops and get even more of these nut-cases off of the roads!
Thinking that it's time to get a desk job!
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/6/2007 10:43:53 PM |
For the most part, as always, people were chillin and doing just fine....however, there are too many, whose confidence, by far, exceeds their skills.
There are far too many who only are thinking of their own short-term goals...such as shaving a few nano-seconds off of their trip time! WTF are you people really thinking?
At times, its just wanton disregard for other users of the road. Other times it's the sheer frustration of roads that have doubled their traffic or more, in less than twenty years. And sometimes it really is a lack of awareness that they are doing anything wrong.
I was sitting facing west on Eglinton waiting to make a left hand turn southbound on Pharmacy. Lots of traffic. A car travelling in reverse went by south through the intersection on Pharmacy (in the right lane, travelling in the proper direction, but backwards). He was going about 30 kmh.
After I made my turn, I caught up to him about a mile down Pharmacy. I asked him what he was doing. He exclaimed that something was wrong with his transmission and this was the only way he could drive the car.
Perhaps if he had taken his driver's exam under the same conditions he wouldn't be out there as a menace on the roads. I really believe that he believed he was doing nothing wrong. It all made sense to him that if forward doesn't work, just drive in reverse.
Ugh.
I'm just going to hide out at home for the rest of the weekend...it's just too nuts out there.
Good idea. It is autumn, you'd think the squirrels would have gotten all the nuts by now!!!
Not that it's going to get better once winter arrives. Then you get them doing 120 kmh on the 400 during a whiteout at Barrie. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/7/2007 12:49:03 AM | Last night in Wasaga Beach around midnite a car was going at least 100 to 110 KM / h in a 50 zone through the beach.
I was judging the speed he was going by my speed.
Get this............he had only his daytime running lights on. His rear lights were all off so people cannot read his plate.
You are not going to convince me he had any official business or he would have cared about others on the road. OPP and emergency vehicles exceed the speed limit through the beach, but they don't go in stealth mode.
That area is notorious for deer and vehicle collisions. There is no way he can avoid a collision at that speed or higher if a deer surprised him.
After I saw that episode with that piece of dung, I am convinced that these laws are the right way to go. Why wait for an idiot like that to take out a deer or a pedestrian or run into me ??? Take him out. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/7/2007 3:48:58 AM | | I guess in a way it makes sense to do something about the speeding. I was guilty of the same stupidity when i was younger. I don't feel it is a cash grab but a attempt to slow people down and after they get caught a couple of times it may sink in. | |
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