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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/7/2007 4:53:23 AM | You know I keep hearing about rights and how they are being taken away by the big bad government.
Well what about my rights? This will not stop all accidents but there is a quantum difference between a fender bender that screws up your weekend and getting removed from a vehicle with the jaws of life because someone needed to get somewhere while I was in their way.
Get your jollies somewhere else.
Wanna be a risk taker? Try riding your bike to work for a week without a helmet or go bungee jumping. If you feel the need for speed maybe we could see if they could give all you wanna be nascar drivers sole access to the 401 for a few hours just to get it out of your system.
This reminds me of the anti smoking lobbying. Smokers were made to feel guilty and treated like outcasts because it was determined that non smokers have the right not to breathe second hand smoke.
Well this time the consensus is speed and stupidity kills. Get used to it.
Maybe this should have been one of the election issues we should have voted on. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/7/2007 5:01:08 AM | Frankly they are not stiff enough....
I am so sick and tired of driving and being cut of by some of these renegade drivers who feel that they are above the law or that their need to be someplace trumps and supercedes everyone elses.
I'm happy with the penalties and wouldn't mind seeing it higher. I say if you need to be someplace, leave early enough to get there and dont become a nuisance on the road and play with other peoples' lives. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/7/2007 9:48:11 AM | If anyone thinks it is overkill they must be speeders. The law is there to save lives, your life, my life and my family's life. They should have done this a long time ago.
Only dumb asses with no respect for other people go 50 or more over the speed limit. | |
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Mayor
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Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 104 | |
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/7/2007 9:57:19 AM | the 401 was designed for cars to travel in excess of over 100 mph,, and at one time that was the speed limit, it was reduced to 70 mph not because of safety reasons but econimic ones, the fuel crisis ( lol like we all believed that ), then switch to kph and it bacame 100 kph. It is not a function of speed, people can die at 10 kph if a careless person is at the wheel. if speed was truely is the issue the car companies would be forced to set limits on how fast cars could be. sorry this is to make money,and make the general population feel like it is helping them, governments throught history have use "its for your own good" as a way to make themselves more money or power.
will some lives be saved? yes probably will, at the expense of due process. will it stop people from doing stupid things, nope if not speeding they will find something else, and maybe just as if not more harmfull to scociety, we'll find out soon enough me thinks
edit - oh now my math maybe off a bit here but 100 mph i think is 160 kph 10 more that what the current law for 50 over is . | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/7/2007 1:40:23 PM | Mayor
I am not sure where you get your info from but the 401 has NEVER had a limit of 100mph. Originally it was 60mph was raised to 70mph and then at one point converted to 100km/h which is about 62mph. It has been discussed raising it to 110 or 120 but obviously it has never happened.
While I agree that any one going 50 miles over the limit needs to be punished it is the reduction in civil liberties like a day in court that I object to. REMEMBER INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!! The idea of impounding a car based on the driver can only hurt the owner!!! Huge fines will only hurt their family!!
There are also a lot of bad drivers who do not speed but cause major issues(eg 90 km/h in the left lane) and all these issues should be dealt with. Hopefully the plane they have in the air this weekend will help!! They have not used a plane in over 20 years according to reports earlier this weekend.
Be polite move to the right!! | |
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Mayor
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Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 106 | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/7/2007 9:27:16 PM | The ricer racers mommies and daddies won't be happy with the fines. Jr. will probably be grounded for the WHOLE SEVEN DAYS the car is gone.
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/8/2007 7:23:28 PM | and all you need to do is look at the front pages of any Ontario newspaper today to see the outcome of idiotic speeders. Two women left dead. One's husband witnessing the accident in his rearview mirror. The other husband getting to the scene and knowing on sight his beautiful wife was dead. Children left motherless, families left grieving, students of an award winning teacher left stunned and heartbroken.
But yes, we're supposed to feel sad for the two brothers who had to race their expensive sports cars down the highway just for a thrill. Of course, they survived. Maximum penalty is life ... doubt they'll see that.
Remember, it's called a speed limit -- not a suggestion of how slow you should go -- limit means that's the fastest you should go. Of course, everyone knows the OPP really don't pull you over under 120 so they all drive at least 115-119 (and yes, I'm guilty of that too sometimes). If you have to drive 150 to get some place on time, YOU ARE NOT LEAVING EARLY ENOUGH, why don't you leave a little earlier and get there alive and less stressed? Take some responsibility.
I was amazed when I was in New Zealand. Cars are equipped with a bell to stop you from going over 100kph. You can be fined if it is disconnected. Imagine listening to that annoying dinging for your commute to work every day. You'd soon learn to give yourself enough time and enjoy a much more relaxing commute to work. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/8/2007 7:52:00 PM | $10,000 will be the maximum fine for going 50km/h or over, $2000 will be the minimum fine...
I do agree with the new fine and automatic suspension system for driving 50 KM/h or over, however I would like to see the speed limit on 400 series highways to 120 KM/H... | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/9/2007 5:38:46 PM | May I ask everyone who has responded in this thread a question? Why is it so difficult to just drive with the flow of traffic? Over Thanksgiving weekend, I counted many drivers who couldn't resist the opportunity to fly by me, even though I'm going with the flow. Not setting it, but going with it. That flow was at least 10 kms/hr over the posted limit, sometimes 20. I don't condone that, but that's what it was...so I drove with the flow. Yet, some drivers flew by us on a 2-lane highway passing 3 or 4 cars at a time very unsafely. A couple of them cut it really close. Going by what I've read here so far, I'm shaking my head in disbelief at these arguments supporting driving at high speeds.
Cash grab is all it is.
Drive impaired three times over the limit, only 49 clicks over the speed limit and the penalty is less severe.
The speed limits as of now, especially on the 400 highways are ridiculous.
The highways are designed for higher speeds as are the newer vehicles of today.
This all comes down to the upcoming election and trying to make an issue out of street racing.
How many people are killed or injured as a result of street racing in ontario every year?
How many people are killed or injured from impaired driving?
Is this not the same government that extended the hours for bars to stay open?
That way drunks can get even drunker before driving home.
The government don't care about your safety, only how much they and lawyers can fill their pockets.
It's been proven time & time again that speed kills. How many more innocent people have to lose their lives on the road because of some selfish jerk (male or female) who doesn't have any respect or couldn't care about other drivers sharing the road? I don't want to hear any lame excuses about the drivers in Europe or on the Autobahn. Frankly, I couldn't give a rat's ass about that. This is Canada. We have a system of laws for our roads and highways. Why in the hell is it so damn difficult to obide by them? Tell me that! | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/9/2007 6:36:04 PM | I think the new speeding penalties are an excellent start to weeding out the bad drivers on the roads of Ontario but I also think that a lot more needs to be done in order in order to make these bad drivers sit up, notice and realize that they are not the only ones on the roads and that they don't own the roads! This includes the sober drivers as well as those that insist on driving when they are drunk as well. I have seen many people driving their vehicles here in Niagara Falls, Ontario who shouldn't have been allowed to drive a vehicle of any sort in the first place, just by standing on the sidewalk and watching them drive their vehicles. It can be a very scary sight when I see these drivers and makes me feel extremely thankful that I don't drive a vehicle, as a matter of fact I feel alot safer walking or taking one of the local transit buses because I know that I will make it home safer then if I were to drive a vehicle with this kind of driver on the roads.
I think that it is about time that the government of Ontario brought in a law like the one they have brought into place just recently, it has been long over due and I also think that they should extend this law to include a section in it concerning those bad drivers who insist on driving like they do, who cause an accident in which some poor unfortunate person loses their life or lives because of it and charge them with vehicular manslaughter like they have down in the United States and have them punished by serving a long prison term! This should include drivers involved in street racing, showing off to others, playing a game of chicken with their vehicles and drunk drivers plus aggressive drivers. It would be reassuring to others in Ontario if they knew that every time they go out on the roads of Ontario, that they are going to safe from these types of drivers, it would be less for them to worry about and be concerned about! Something needs to be done about these bad drivers because I think it makes other drivers look bad, who are good drivers, I am sure that good drivers don't want to be painted with the same brush as these bad drivers, right?
In the fall of 1989, I lost an aunt in a case where two young men insisted on playing chicken in the fog that night on a street in my hometown of St. Catharines, they not only plowed into my aunt but about four other people coming home from playing bingo at a bingo hall trying to cross an intersection safely, with their cars. These young men not only severely injured my aunt and the others but they also managed to cut off my aunt's one leg in the accident that resulted from them playing chicken in the fog with their cars! My aunt passed away that night from the shock of losing her leg because of these young men doing what they did, it is people like these young men who the government was thinking of when they brought in that new law recently and the police are now inforcing! Some people may object to this new law because they think that only drivers are being singled out and being treated unfairly because of this new law, that has nothing to do with singling out a certain group of people and treating them unfairly or anything else, it concerns the safety of everyone who find themselves either on the roads driving or are riding in a vehicle or who may be walking, this includes the ones who are drivers as well, to make sure they get to where they are going safely and alive!
I sincerely give three cheers to the Ontario government for bringing in this new law and the police who inforce it, good for them! I am sure that there are other members of this website who agree completely with what I have said in this thread, right? | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/9/2007 9:11:32 PM | | I am in favour of the recently enacted speeding penalties. I would also like to see a united front to lobby all the auto makers to cease all forms of advertising that do nothing but glorify the speed of the vehicles - think about it next time you watch tv - the "battle of the sexes" (can you handle it?); chasing around town to get his own car back; "zooming" everywhere; cars that "fly" etc etc. Surely there are enough other features to advertise? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem... and these corporations are contributing big time to the problem. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 6:23:06 AM | It's not a bad law, and really, its not a bad penalty.. but what it is doing is making a police officer judge and jury. You are convicted on the spot without due process, and that is contrary to the Canadian Constitution, and there is already a constitutional challange being set up.
In Canada, we have the right to a trial and the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, EXCEPT if we speed over 50 km/h.
If we speed at 49km/h we get the due process, a ticket and a day at court.. but if we go 50 we lose the due process.. THAT is what the problem is all about.
This law is not going to save lives.. it is just going to net cash. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 7:24:27 AM | I think that this young woman who thinks that this new law enacted by the Ontario government recently violates the Canadian constitution and it doesn't nor does it set up the police as judge and jury over the people who drive vehicles either! She has missed the point entirely, in my opinion because the main reason for this new law is to make all roads in Ontario safe for everyone and not just for a few! It also is not a way to net cash for anyone, either, it is also quite obvious that she has never lost someone in her family or a friend to these bad drivers causing accidents because of the way they drive as well. I think that there will come a time when she will change her mind entirely about this new law and see the correct reason for this new law, experience is an excellent teacher and maybe this is what she needs in order to see exactly why we needed this type of law for a very long time and why it is long over due!
In my opinion, as I have stated before it is about time the Ontario government came up with a law like this but it needs to go further, it needs to include a section in it similiar to what they have in the United States and have these bad drivers who cause accidents on the road that result in death for innocent victims, to be charged with vehicular manslaughter as well! The roads of Ontario are not the sole territory of these bad drivers or drivers, they are meant for everyone and everyone should arrive at their destination safely and alive, including these bad drivers or drivers, right? | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 8:10:18 AM | | I don't think this law will change anything really, as seen last week with the death of those two women. They could reinstate the death penalty and yet people will still speed. Deterrents don't work, human nature is human nature, and unfortunately, some humans are idiots. The only solution is to put speed limiters on vehicles, but some will say that even that isn't safe, but it will keep people from speeding on highways. I don't understand why they don't, and since they don't, it adds up to a cash grab plain and simple. Changing behavior is not about taking cars away or paying fines, yet the OPP think that this new law will change behaviors, it's laughable. I'm sorry for those that have lost loved ones, but this isn't the way to go about changing that. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 8:19:37 AM | | well i can see the good side and the bad side to this ongoing argument but the real question is will they do something positive with the money from there cash grab surplus ? or will it just collect in some fat cats bank account | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 8:30:02 AM |
but what it is doing is making a police officer judge and jury.
Juries are NEVER used in Traffic Act or Provincial Offences violations, and more often than not Justices of the Peace preside over the Courts for them, not Judges. Traffic Act and Provincial Offences violations are far more clear-cut than criminal or civil offences, and usually held to far more rigid "Right or Wrong" standards. Further, Police Officers are making no judgements or decisions at all, as speeds are measured by highly sophisticated devices, as per the Law. In such Legislated actions, Police are being allowed less and less discretion, and thus are unable to even resemble Judge or Jury. The Law, and Police Policy and Procedure prevents it.
Anyone that breaks the Law on a 400 series highway or any other highway by going 50 over the Legal limit deserves whatever they get. There is no need for that kind of driving and I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 10:24:43 AM | I think that I have to completely agree with jeeprennie, totally because there are too many people who are always trying to make the police look like scapegoats for enforcing the laws of Ontario and Canada, which is totally unfair and uncalled for! They are only doing their jobs and are doing what they have been ordered to do and nothing more, besides they are the ones that put their lives on the line every time they do their jobs or go to work to enforce the laws of this province or country! I would dearly love to see these people who constantly criticize and complain about the police and also make them scapegoats, do what the police have to do every time they have to go on duty because then they would end up changing their opinions about the police if they did! I, for one would never want the job of being a police officer here in Ontario or anywhere else because it is not only a thankless job but an extremely dangerous job as well, plus it must be terribly frustrating for them, when you consider how lenient the laws here in Canada have become! For example, where young offenders are concerned, etc.
As for the money being generated from this new law is concerned, I think that it is the least that these bad drivers or drivers who violate the new law can do because they are the ones who cause these accidents that make other people end up either in the hospital or an early grave! The money generated from this new law should go to pay for the amount of damage that is done and should be given to the victims of these drivers who insist on violating this new law, in the form of a compensation fund!
There has to be something done about this kind of thing to make everyone, not just the drivers, stop and think about what is going on, on the roads here in Ontario and finally put a stop to it for good to protect everyone, drivers included! The question that should cross the minds of every person who complains about this new law is, "Do I want to end up badly injured or killed by these types of drivers or would it be better to keep this new law in effect so I can get to where I am going safely or not?" That is the question they should be asking themselves instead of complaining about this new law and they should also ask themselves, how can they help prevent others from getting seriously injured or killed because of what is going on, on the roads of Ontario and Canada, when they drive their vehicles on the roads, right? Or would they like to take the place of people who are seriously injured or killed by what is going on, on the roads here in Ontario, maybe they'd think twice about complaining then, right? | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 4:20:50 PM |
well i can see the good side and the bad side to this ongoing argument but the real question is will they do something positive with the money from there cash grab surplus ? or will it just collect in some fat cats bank account
I see good and bad sides to this as well.
Here's hoping that the good outweighs the bad and that the power is not abused, and/or innocent folks mistakenly/wrongly charged under it.
As for those who are truly caught misbehavin and suffer the consequences...I'm willing to bet that the message will settle in, even to people that dense!
I'll bet that they'll be almost unable to obtain insurance at any price afterwards.
Speed limiters on cars seems to be a reasonable idea to me. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 5:53:23 PM | Just so people know, there already are speed limiters on cars built in by the manufacturers. However, these are removable quite easily since the cars now are all electronic, and anyone with the proper program and adapter can remove it.
People forget that most accidents are not at high speeds, they are usually someone didn't come to a complete stop and got t-boned, someone was on a cell phone and rear ended someone in front of them, or they changed lanes without looking and signaling proper... or sometimes, there are just plain out accidents.
The high speed accidents get more attention because of the damage it usually causes, plus its one of the things the media likes to focus on because its the in thing right now.
Street racing has been around since there have been cars, and that isn't something that will end up. Is it right? no, nobody needs to do that on a public road. And I'm not saying that as an easy going person, I race motocross so obviously have that speed bug, but on the 400s I rarely do more than 115.
I think the penalties are fair, however I don't think its right that a cop can just convict someone on the spot. Hell, even with an intoxicated driver they still end up at court. I would rather someone fly by me at 160 than weave by me drunk! | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 7:13:16 PM |
Just so people know, there already are speed limiters on cars built in by the manufacturers
what? I think you're mistaken, unless you mean the speed is limited at 200 km/h, yeah, really limited. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/10/2007 7:25:18 PM | From what I heard on the news last night, one of the manufacturers of vehicles has come out with a device to put a stop to people who insist on violating this new law with their vehicles, that the government of Ontario has just brought in recently, although that wasn't strictly their intention when they invented it. It is some sort of electronic device concerning the computer systems built into vehicles now a days, that will allow the police to remotely and safely stop the vehicles of drivers that violate the traffic laws and will put an end to fast police pursuits that may accidently cause serious accidents that cause death but the trouble is that they say it won't be ready to install in new vehicles until 2009.
But I think in the meantime, this new law might cut down on the number of drivers who insist on breaking this new law with their vehicles but it also may encourage some of these drivers to go ahead and do it anyway, to try and see if they can get away with it because they see it as a challenge of some sort between themselves and the police. This is what worries me more then anything concerning this new law, I sure hope I am totally wrong about it but I have an awful feeling that I am not!
Whichever way it goes, there has to be something done about it because if it doesn't stop, I don't think I would want to even hear about it! The question in my mind is, will they ever find a way to stop this kind of thing from happening no matter what they do about it or will it keep on going forever as long as people have vehicles? If they can't stop it from happening legally speaking then what is going to happen next? | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/11/2007 1:29:08 PM | I've been working on vehicles since an early teen and did a couple years as a mechanic so yes, I know there are speed limiters set on vehicles. They won't limit it to 140, and the government wouldn't force manufacturers or dealers to do this as the big money sports car and luxury car manufacturers and dealers would take a huge hit and thus, so does the government. The speed limiters on most vehicles are designed to be at the determined maximum safe speed for that vehicle... any vehicle can be deadly at any speed. You wouldn't beleive the forces you feel at even 30 km an hour. (after placing and winning in a few demolition derbys, I've been hit in every direction so I know what i'm talking about... rednecks are good for something!)
And yes, people will break laws... they always will, if its with a car, or their own 2 feet thats just how it is in the world. This law has a purpose and will work. It might not stop all of the drivers that speed over 150 to slow down, but you can bet it will make alot of them think about it! and the ones that insist on it, will get caught and will pay the price and most likely won't do it again... if they can even afford to drive after that!
I'm not sticking up for anyone, I don't like it when I'm doing 115-120 in the fast lane, I'm passing cars in the middle lane and some city prick in a Beemer tailgates me. It pisses me off, but not as much as a young guy in his civic re-made into a space shuttle. | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/11/2007 8:02:52 PM | Good or bad??? hummmm depends....if I am trying to catch a Ferry to North Sydney NS and I lost 4 hours stuck in traffic because some jerk off got into a fender bender for not paying attention to the road, then no, new rules not good.....
Or if you are driving to meet someone who is a freaking amazing in bed and you are DYING to get off because it has been waaaaaaaaaay tooooo long.....then no, new rules not good! (crap, did I say that out loud???)
I've seen 150 but not often....... | |
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| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/12/2007 8:30:37 AM |
Good or bad??? hummmm depends....if I am trying to catch a Ferry to North Sydney NS and I lost 4 hours stuck in traffic because some jerk off got into a fender bender for not paying attention to the road, then no, new rules not good.....
Or if you are driving to meet someone who is a freaking amazing in bed and you are DYING to get off because it has been waaaaaaaaaay tooooo long.....then no, new rules not good! (crap, did I say that out loud???)
I've seen 150 but not often....... The new laws are perfect because some people feel justified in breaking the law and endangering others for ridiculous reasons like these. | |
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