| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/12/2007 11:31:55 AM | I understand where you are coming from, cdnrednk but this device I was talking about is far more advanced then the one you are talking about, it is part of the onboard computer system that are part of the vehicles this manufacturer is building and it can kick in when the police use the remote control that goes with it and can safely stop a speeding vehicle or a vehicle where the driver has violated the new law that the government just brought in. This device won't be available in vehicles until the 2009 model of vehicles are made and put in the showrooms of car dealers. So you have to wait until then to have it in a vehicle you would buy at that time.
It will end the need for high speed police pursuits, etc. and make the roads safe for everyone, which I think is an excellent idea and long over due, right? | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/12/2007 11:46:00 AM |
Juries are NEVER used in Traffic Act or Provincial Offences violations, and more often than not Justices of the Peace preside over the Courts for them, not Judges. Traffic Act and Provincial Offences violations are far more clear-cut than criminal or civil offences, and usually held to far more rigid "Right or Wrong" standards. Further, Police Officers are making no judgements or decisions at all, as speeds are measured by highly sophisticated devices, as per the Law. In such Legislated actions, Police are being allowed less and less discretion, and thus are unable to even resemble Judge or Jury. The Law, and Police Policy and Procedure prevents it.
You need to go back and re read the law. There are not Traffic offenses, they are criminal code violations, (only way to get a criminal record is to be tried in a criminal court)
This law allows you to be presumed guilty until you prove yourself innocent.
They take the word of the police officer and hold it as "THE LAW". It totally removes due process. If the cop says i am going 49km over the limit, I can contest it; if the cop says i am going 50 km/h over the limit, then i cannot contest it. I am guilty, i get punished, and i can go to jail.
Whos to say i wasn't going 49 over the limit and the cop just bumps it up to 51 to score the sweet deal?
THAT is the only issue i have with this "law"...
Anyone that breaks the Law on a 400 series highway or any other highway by going 50 over the Legal limit deserves whatever they get. There is no need for that kind of driving and I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.
I agree.. but they should still get their day in court. I suppose you would also prefer we just get rid of the cops altogether and use mob rule and vigilante justice? | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/12/2007 12:13:16 PM | I'll keep the cops, and really, who cares if its Criminal or Highway Traffic Act? People that speed to that excess NEED to be stopped, due process be damned. 49 vs 50 over? Big Deal. Anyone doing speeds that far in excess of the speed limit is a fool. And after spending 20 years in the Criminal Justice System...I can tell you there ain't much justice to be found there.
Please keep in mind that this is NOT JUST about 400 series highways. There are lots of other highways. 2 morons just got their cars suspended near here the other day for doing 60 over on a secondary highway. Some of those secondary highways go right through the middle of villages and hamlets, and putting the lives of those people at risk because some jerk is in a hurry is totally anacceptable.
Some people put far too much stock in theoretical justice, and not enough in real, active, in your face public safety. | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/12/2007 6:26:48 PM | jeeprennie, I agree with you about keeping the police and what not, if we didn't have the police to enforce the laws of our country then we might as be back where our ancestors were, back in pre-historic times! I think that we have needed that new traffic law the government just brought in for many years now and it was long over due, I think the rights of everyone to get to where they are going safely and alive far outweigh the rights of these drivers who insist on violating the traffic laws here in Canada and Ontario!
If these drivers don't want to get their vehicles and what not taken away from them, they should start obeying the traffic laws here, they would have a lot less to worry about if they did and I am sure the police wouldn't bother them or take their vehicles and what not away from them if they did! I think that, in my opinion, the ones who are complaining about the new law and are losing their vehicles and what are the ones who are guilty of breaking these laws, it shows that they also have a guilty conscience about how they are driving and that's why they complain, if they didn't complain then they wouldn't have a guilty conscience and be worrying so much about what the police do!
Why should other people have contend with having serious, disabling injuries and death or the loss of a loved one or ones, just because some people don't like having the police take their vehicles and their ability to drive taken away from them for a certain length of time? The drivers who violate the traffic laws here in Canada and Ontario seem to think that they have more rights then anyone else, just because they have a vehicle and they don't, it just doesn't work that way here!
Maybe, they should be made to face these people and their families after they cause an accident because of the way they insist on driving, maybe then they would think twice about it because they would have to give them a good enough explanation for why they were driving the way they were when they caused the accident and injured or disabled or killed someone, that would be a fitting punishment, right? But then again, it wouldn't work or change them for the better because they are too blind to see the truth of what they do to others when they drive but I bet they would be the first to holler if it happened to them or someone they cared about! It is too bad it has to happen that way before they see what they are doing to other people when they drive like they do! | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/14/2007 2:28:09 AM | Some of you people still dont get it. It's not just 50 over that is criminal. Like someone said b4, go and re-read the updates. It could be 50 over, it COULD BE driving the speed limit or too slow IF the cop thinks you may be a hazard to other drivers (you know when you're doing the limit and someone honks their horn at you and flips you off for no reason?, well, there's a reason, and it's YOU messing with traffic even though you are doing the limit, feel like a criminal record for that?, then keep supporting this new ammendment), if you are caught in an intersection on anything other than a green (extreme example there but it's IN THE LAW), preventing someone from passing you (wheather or not you now it, remember, safety first, so this means knowing you're blocking someone, otherwise you prove yourself guilty in court for not being conciderate), being a left lane bandit, and soo much more.
Recently (last week) I saw on the news a report compiled by either the OPP or some ministry or agency that did a quick survey. Just from the sample they did, upwards of 3 Million people admit to driving fast and or aggressivly. That's a lot of people to catch and lock up. No way will this law stop everyone. Many who did the survey admitted that they will NOT STOP driving how they do, regardless what the law says.
Don't forget coruption. At least 2 different officers are being investigated for FALSLEY charging people, EXTORTION, and ABUSING THEIR POWERS. ANd that's just the ones we know about.
Many people have already run from the cops and got away, putting you at GREATER RISK than if they just went on their way. Police don't even have a clue who they were, airplanes and helicopters did nothing to help them and word is now out that if you run, you have a really good chance of getting away because they WILL NOT GIVE CHASE if the speeder puts others at risk, so they back off. So what does that accomplish? not much as far as your safety is concerned, in fact it makes you LESS SAFE on the roads. They only charge and catch the people who pull over.
The funniest part. Many of those who were stopped for doing 50 over were drunk. So instead of them having their cars seized for a week, they got 12 hour suspensions. People will now claim drinking and driving to get out of the 50 over charge. It's a joke, the drinking and driving charges.
I absoloutly say charge DANGEROUS speeding, along with people who run red lights + stop signs, sweep across 4 lanes to make an exit at the last second, etc... Make it criminal only if they actually cause an accident.
Ask a traffic violation defender and they will tell you that it's soo easy to bring up in court that your actions when caught DID NOT result in an accident, this gets tossed out and then you cannot be retried for the same charge in a different court, meaning you get off of the criminal charge but may pay a fine for whatever they caught you for.
One more thing about those who keep bringing up speed govenors. It wont stop people from running reds, slamming into others, or any of the other 85% of non speed related accidents that occur. | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/14/2007 1:25:08 PM | Have No Fear
I thought you said you were done responding. Just can't help yourself huh? It's ok, I can relate! lol :) Anyway.... There is a lot of false information being posted on this forum and I am not going to comment on all of it. Just way too much but I really have to question your one statement. It makes no sense to me.
"The funniest part. Many of those who were stopped for doing 50 over were drunk. So instead of them having their cars seized for a week, they got 12 hour suspensions. People will now claim drinking and driving to get out of the 50 over charge. It's a joke, the drinking and driving charges."
If these people were "drunk", they would get much more than a 12 hour suspension. If they were over .80, they would receive a 90 day suspension, have their car towed and end up withe a criminal record if convicted. (plus a one year licence suspension) If they blew a warn on a roadside test, they would get a 12 hour licence suspension. But as for the speeding charge, that would probably not be dropped. You can charge people with multiple offences. It isn't not going to get you out of speeding charges. That is like saying if you commit an armed robbery and then kill someone, that you will get charged with robbery but drop the murder charge?
And seriously, I reallllllly don't think the police have nothing better to do than try to make your life a living hell. They have had the power of officer discretion forever. A lot of these charges have already been on the books. These stronger laws just give them more power to be able to do something with the drivers that are being super-aggressive and street racing etc. They are not out to look for random drivers that are having a "duh" moment and inadvertenly slowing down traffic. That is intended for 2 or 3 vehicles driving slow, to stop traffic so their buddies can drag race up ahead.
I do actually understand your concerns on some of the issues, but unless you are a street racer or an idiot, I sincerely doubt you have anything to worry about. Despite what Chicken Little may have been saying, the sky is not falling. | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/14/2007 2:15:17 PM | I just can't figure out why vehicles aren't governed at 120 km/h, rather than all the fines and punishments for "eating the forbidden fruit." Why make cars for speed outside of the racing industry?
$10 000 cash grab, from those who live on the wild side. At least I don't speed. (much) | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/14/2007 3:49:11 PM |
Some of you people still dont get it.
Are we in the midst of their leader?
People will now claim drinking and driving to get out of the 50 over charge. It's a joke, the drinking and driving charges.
Interesting interpretation of the law, and law enforcement. I've also heard if you shoot and kill your passenger while driving 50 kmh over the limit, the 50 kmh limit trumps the murder charge. I wonder what would happen if you shoot your passenger while driving drunk AND 50 kmh over the limit?
Ask a traffic violation defender and they will tell you that it's soo easy to bring up in court that your actions when caught DID NOT result in an accident,
With this logic all attempted murder charges should be tossed out.
One more thing about those who keep bringing up speed govenors. It wont stop people from running reds, slamming into others,
Poop and Scoop legislation doesn't stop dog owners from smoking pot either. (Just thought that needed to be pointed out here.) Kudos to you for refering to us as "those" and not "those IDIOTS" as in earlier posts.
or any of the other 85% of non speed related accidents that occur.
Fivety-seven percent of all statististics are complete fabrications!
They only charge and catch the people who pull over.
Could this be because laws are meant as a preventative deterent?
They only charge and catch the people who pull over.
I beg to differ here. They also charge survivors of horrific crashes that wipe out entire families, or innocent passengers like Keith Magnuson. Although, technically, Rob Ramage's accident did force his car to pull over. So we are both correct here. | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/14/2007 5:28:45 PM | This is kind a pointless debate, I suppose. Whether you think the law is good or bad is a moot point now. Its been enacted and is already being enforced....and all the whining bleeding hear t excuse-makers in the province can't make it go away, and dummies that drive way too fast will be penalized.  | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/14/2007 6:35:32 PM | | I agree with the pointless debate. Highways have limits for a reason. 75% of the people on the road today don't know how to drive worth a hoot and should not be driving. People follow to close and speed excessivly. The 400 series highways arn't an autobahn and never will be as drivers in ontario would never be able to handle it without driving the fatal crash rate through the roof. | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/14/2007 6:37:29 PM | If you can't do the time, don't do the crime!!!
Can't afford the cash, don't do the dash!!!
I have a million of them.....
Don't like my driving? Then quit watching me. | |
|
| |
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/15/2007 9:30:25 AM | | I think the fine is a little steep but everything else I agree with. Too many people are getting killed on the highways because of racers. I admitt I do speed but 50kms/h over the limit is very rare. My truck would have to stop at every gas station. Where I have a little heartache is if your building a car designed for road racing the police can take it before you even put it on the road. I am rebuilding a 69 Cougar with lots of Xtras but I am not building for racing. | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/15/2007 2:04:22 PM |
Too many people are getting killed on the highways because of racers.
What do you mean by this? OPP Cam Wooley said a few years back that there are an estimated 30,000 illegal street racers acording to them, add a couple thousand more to that number to update it. Of those 33,000 so called street racers, not a single one of them have been convicted or caught under the new law, not even in the old law. Stats say about 38 ppl have died since 1998, of those 38 dead, several have been removed from that list because they were in fact just regular collisions. The police will allways say that any bad accident involving speed was street racing when in fact most of those alledged street racing accidents were actually caused by regular cars, mini vans, and the like. Since 1998, only about 5 ppl died and it involved the racers in isolated areas who were racing [real street racing, not media hyped racing].
Just something to chew on.
Too many people are getting killed on the highways because of bad drivers.
This law came about because it was an election year, Mc Guinty, the AGO, Fantino and others were trying to divert your attention away from their faults by making it look as tho they were doing something. Crime, real crime actually went up in Toronto under Fantino because he was allways doing road blitzes, failed road blitzes, and even the cops under him dissliked him, and just one of the many reasons Toronto got rid of Fantino, just as London did. The laws always existed b the new laws, but why the heck wasnt there the same police presence and enforcement as there is now? Politics.
I too have heard of drunk ppl speeding and only getting 12 hour suspensions and not the 1 week seizure and of ppl running. | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/15/2007 8:25:31 PM | | As we were driving, we saw a sign that said "Watch for Rocks." Marta said it should read "Watch for Pretty Rocks." I told her she should write in her suggestion to the highway department, but she started saying it was a joke - just to get out of writing a simple letter! And I thought I was lazy! | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/23/2007 9:42:57 PM |
The new laws are perfect because some people feel justified in breaking the law and endangering others for ridiculous reasons like these.
It was a joke JeepR - this topic way too heavy. And while I admit to having driven 145 on two occasions in the 15 years I have been driving, I was the only car on the road. Try endandgering someone in the dead of night in butt F nowhere Manitoba or New Brunswick. If I choose to endanger only myself it is my business. | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/24/2007 6:37:01 AM | | Well people are still nto learning from these new laws..... they have caught over 836 people so far...and i hope they keep them out there catching more and more.... I am in the middle lane doing 110km...........and people are still flying by me........what will it take for these IDIOTS to slow down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
|
Mayor
|
Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 143 | |
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/24/2007 7:06:33 AM | ^^^ people still drink and drive, a law that has be around for a few years
come to think of it tho shall not kill, and a few others, have been around alot longer
either there is some genetic code that some people are flawed, and never should be allowed to live. or maybe the concept of laws, and rules doesn't really work.
ok i'll but my stir stick away now lmao | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/24/2007 7:17:54 AM |
It was a joke JeepR - this topic way too heavy. And while I admit to having driven 145 on two occasions in the 15 years I have been driving, I was the only car on the road. Try endandgering someone in the dead of night in butt F nowhere Manitoba or New Brunswick. If I choose to endanger only myself it is my business. Not too funny...one fool got his car confiscated going through my little hamlet not that long ago because he was on his way to a hockey practice. How stupid is that?? People actually do break the law regularly for ridiculous reasons. My hamlet is in the middle of what some people think of as butt F nowhere, so you can be the only one on the road...by you never know when a person or a family pet, or some livestock may be out and about. As for endangering yourself being your business...wrong. Presumably someone will have to find you eventually and scrape you off the road(not a pleasant or inexpensive task), or avoid your wreckage when they suddenly come across it in the middle of butt F nowhere. And unless your alone in the world, being self-destructive always hurts those left behind. Nothing is as simple as it appears. | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/24/2007 7:57:05 AM | Well i admitt pinning my motorcycle at 300K's where the rev limitered is set by the manufactures. I admit doing 240 -260 in my viper on a few occasions. I admit also paying attention to the road more than 2/3's of the people on their blueberry, cellphone, eating, make up, reading etc. Again i don't see europe closing the autoban because excessive speed kills. Put the peddle to the metal and keep the right hand cranked. I've drivin in europe on numerous occasions and i must say half the drivers here wouldn't survive a week. Oh ya the left lane is to pass so get the hell out the way!! | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/24/2007 8:01:17 AM |
they have caught over 836 people so far.
wow.. thats almost $836,000 in less then a month!
if this keeps up.. the gov't is going to have to give us a tax break! | |
|
Mayor
|
Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 147 | |
| |
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/24/2007 3:59:30 PM | | Hey lookin I wouldnt call ppl idiots to slow down. I dont condone racing but there are ppl that do know how to drive at high speeds I spent 4 years driving on the autobon in Germany accident free at 250 kmph. It is not how fast you drive it is driving defensivly and safely, proper following distance and drive according to the conditions. I do believe that racers should be punished. They wanna race they have tracks for that stuff. Most of the racers are 18 to 21 and dont have the experience behind the wheel to drive at those speeds or they dont do it safely hence people getting killed. I think there are more accidents due to people yapping on Cell phones and putting on make up than racing. When are they gonna start impounding vehicles and charging people with dangerous driving for yapping on the phone? | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/24/2007 5:27:09 PM | Sorry Sgt Soldier but people who are 30km or more over the speed limit are IDIOTS.....and it is about how fast you go.. I dont care how defensive of a driver you are.. speeding causes accidents......... , the same as people who talk on cell phones while driving.... as well as people who drink and drive....
People have to start looking at their cars as a WEAPON and if you are not gonna drive defensively..... you have to look at what could happen... ACCIDENTS........more and more of them... and that you could KILL someone.... if your not careful | |
|
| new speeding penalties good or bad?
Posted: 10/24/2007 5:40:49 PM | | I completely agree with what lookin4ulookin4me said, she has the right idea about people who drive vehicles and don't obey the new law concerning it! Vehicles are one of the worst weapons ever invented and they are deadly! I think far more people are killed or seriously injured each year by this deadly weapon, then in any of the wars that have been fought over the centuries! It is time the government of Ontario and Canada did something about it! | |
|
Home
login 
